What to do when a friend goes completely crazy on psychedelics?

[Trying2Iso]

Take him to the bad trip tent.
(woodstock reference)
but seriously, lessen senses, no loud noises, calm environment, talk to them in calming voice.
And if available, give them antipsychotics or at least benzos

 

[AA357]

It seems like some people are prone to having the "psychotic"-type bad trip, where they often don't even remember it, they act animalistic or hyper-sexual and lose complete control over themselves. I've never had anything like that and I've tripped many hundreds of times. It does concern me to hear that other very experienced trippers would have had an experience like that at some point though. Some people seem much more prone to it and those people shouldn't use psychedelics, IMO.

I once had a textbook bad trip on 300mcg LSD... had the feeling I was dying, going insane and all the rest of it. I actually ended up losing control over my bladder. All it was was a severe panic attack brought about by a messy flat. I was pacing around my room but I didn't do anything stupid (other than piss myself) and I remembered everything the next morning. I had the presence of mind to take 40mg Valium (the most I've ever taken to this date), which really turned the tables on the whole experience. I was still tripping very hard but I felt amazing and ended up having a very nice, relaxing evening. I took a shower, wobbled off to the Chinese to treat myself to a big ass meal and ended the night with a couple of joints.

My point is that "normal" people never go truly psychotic off psychedelics. You have to actually have a predisposition to psychosis for that to happen. At worst you'll just take a very bad panic attack. At no point did I ever black out, forget I had taken LSD, hear voices or any of that shit. It was simply a combination of racing thoughts and feelings of intense fear, helplessness and physical discomfort (difficulty breathing, chest tightness, wanting to vomit etc.) Fucking horrible, but that's what severe anxiety does to you.
You might be left with some psychological trauma afterwards but that all depends on your personality (I wasn't). The absolute WORST thing you can do after an experience like this is dwell on it. Take it with a pinch of salt and remember shit happens.

 

[Xorkoth]

^^ Yeah I've had trips like that too. Very frightening at the time but you get past it.

 

[AA357]

^^ Yeah I've had trips like that too. Very frightening at the time but you get past it.

I've never actually had a bad trip since that incident. It showed me just how stupid the human mind can be and really drove home the importance of being able to not take yourself so seriously all the damn time.

 

[Treedweller]

As others have reiterated, benzos are the best possible course of action here. Early 2008 I had an experience pretty similar to your friends, OP. I took two hits with a couple of friends on the same dose- i started losing it from those two hits and acting very out of character. In this state i then ate the other 8 hits we had sitting on the table (still in foil) as well as 3.5 grams of cannabis. As you can imagine, things got a lot worse.

This was in a remote area thankfully, and these guys were/are two of my best friends. Anyway, ambulance came, i went to hospital. Was generally unpleasant. I spent the next two years stupidly abusing psychedelics because i was convinced i needed to look for answers. 200+ trips at various doses later and i have never had a similar experience to the original one- the only factors i can think of that may have contributed to my episode were my age, an unfamiliar house, very high dosed hits (plus the other 8 once things had already gotten bad) and an evening with little sleep and DXM use the night before.

I was pretty torn up for a couple of years about wondering why this experience had happened to me. I realised i will never have firm answers but after reading several papers on psychotic reactions from psychedelics i have gathered that two of the most common factors are: high doses (obviously) and, interestingly, unfamiliar environments.

To answer your question, what you did was the best course of action. Without a sedative (and with no guarantee you would be able to administer it) you would have had to put him and yourself into harms way to restrain him, for who knows how long. It sucks to put your friend in that position but is better than causing lasting injury to either party.

 

[Trying2Iso]

As others have reiterated, benzos are the best possible course of action here. Early 2008 I had an experience pretty similar to your friends, OP. I took two hits with a couple of friends on the same dose- i started losing it from those two hits and acting very out of character. In this state i then ate the other 8 hits we had sitting on the table (still in foil) as well as 3.5 grams of cannabis. As you can imagine, things got a lot worse.

This was in a remote area thankfully, and these guys were/are two of my best friends. Anyway, ambulance came, i went to hospital. Was generally unpleasant. I spent the next two years stupidly abusing psychedelics because i was convinced i needed to look for answers. 200+ trips at various doses later and i have never had a similar experience to the original one- the only factors i can think of that may have contributed to my episode were my age, an unfamiliar house, very high dosed hits (plus the other 8 once things had already gotten bad) and an evening with little sleep and DXM use the night before.

I was pretty torn up for a couple of years about wondering why this experience had happened to me. I realised i will never have firm answers but after reading several papers on psychotic reactions from psychedelics i have gathered that two of the most common factors are: high doses (obviously) and, interestingly, unfamiliar environments.

To answer your question, what you did was the best course of action. Without a sedative (and with no guarantee you would be able to administer it) you would have had to put him and yourself into harms way to restrain him, for who knows how long. It sucks to put your friend in that position but is better than causing lasting injury to either party.

antipsychotics are even better in the case of a major freakout because they cancel an lsd trip completely.

 

[Peacephrog1972]

Get them to the wharf rat tent ASAP!!

 

[Trying2Iso]

Get them to the wharf rat tent ASAP!!

good one
beat u to it
altho u made a slightly different reference.

 

[Treedweller]

antipsychotics are even better in the case of a major freakout because they cancel an lsd trip completely.

Definitely, i actually recall a report on erowid now that i think of it where a guy was taking benzos/drinking while tripping to achieve a buzz which then resulted in a experience similar to the ones stated above. So yeah, antipsychotics would be the way to go. Once again, it'd be pretty hard to actually get the affected person to take them though.

 

[tacodude]

6 nbome tabs that usually are dosed way to heavy? IMO that would cause some obvious overdose issues like extremely profous sweating (I mean like more than ever sweat to the point of dripping with sweat... Especially if held under the tounge. Seizures are also likely, but that's at doses close to longer term damage. To say the least I doubt they would have moved as far as they did without convulsing or trying to kill themselves smashing their head into a wall.

Sounds like it was environmental and simulation overload. Who knows without testing the tab.

Edit: Antipsychotics are next to benzos. I would think they would be worse as they can create receptor competition if the wrong one is used.

. Edit 2 in response to Jason7: Really? So out of place. Slow down on the MXE and think before you post.

 

[AA357]

As others have reiterated, benzos are the best possible course of action here. Early 2008 I had an experience pretty similar to your friends, OP. I took two hits with a couple of friends on the same dose- i started losing it from those two hits and acting very out of character. In this state i then ate the other 8 hits we had sitting on the table (still in foil) as well as 3.5 grams of cannabis. As you can imagine, things got a lot worse.

This was in a remote area thankfully, and these guys were/are two of my best friends. Anyway, ambulance came, i went to hospital. Was generally unpleasant. I spent the next two years stupidly abusing psychedelics because i was convinced i needed to look for answers. 200+ trips at various doses later and i have never had a similar experience to the original one- the only factors i can think of that may have contributed to my episode were my age, an unfamiliar house, very high dosed hits (plus the other 8 once things had already gotten bad) and an evening with little sleep and DXM use the night before.

Sorry but why the hell would you call an ambulance? It's just a bit of acid FFS... it's not going to kill you. Did you enjoy spending the rest of your trip in hospital? That'll be on your medical record now.
This kind of shit makes us all look bad.

To answer your question, what you did was the best course of action

Erm... he failed miserably. He let his 'friend' smash his phone and lay waste to his apartment. Dude ended up going to hospital and police got involved.

 

[AA357]

Oh, and with regards to the sedative... you're not asking them to take it. You're telling them to take it. If this shit was happening in my flat, I would present the offender with two options:
1) Swallow the tablets compliantly with a sip of water (in front of me).
2) Swallow the tablets with a full dose of my fist down your fucking throat.

Might sound harsh but it's better than having your flat levelled and allowing police officers and hospital staff to get involved. At the end of the day you're doing him a favor, saving yourself and anybody around you a hell of a lot of grief and saving the taxpayer a whole load of unnecessary expenses.

 

[Treedweller]

Sorry but why the hell would you call an ambulance? It's just a bit of acid FFS... it's not going to kill you. Did you enjoy spending the rest of your trip in hospital? That'll be on your medical record now.
This kind of shit makes us all look bad.

I didn't call an ambulance, my friends did. And as to why: we were young and i was so out of it that i was walking wherever/grabbing whatever. I am describing something different from a trip where i was scared for my life/sanity. I was completely incoherent and probably would've wandered off a hill or into my friends dam. Waking up in the hospital definitely sucked but i wouldn't have enjoyed physically harming myself while unable to control my actions- it was as if someone else was steering my body.

And the hospital didn't even blood test me, I was actually asked the next day why i would take such large amounts of methamphetamine so as to be able to get into that state. They obviously had no idea i had taken LSD. They had only seen similar results from meth psychosis. Go figure.

Additionally, this was in 08 as i stated- i was underage and to the best of my knowledge none of this information was recorded. I was only in hospital for about 8 hours. Sure, i would've rather not gone but i am a big guy and my friends are small guys. Most of your solutions involve holding the person down or knocking them out: i probably would have preferred this but it wasn't an option. From the tone of the OP's statement i figured this wasn't an option for him either, hence why i feel he did the right thing in terms of harm reduction to himself or his friend.

Oh, and with regards to the sedative... you're not asking them to take it. You're telling them to take it./QUOTE]

The whole point of what i'm driving at is that i would've been unable to comprehend what a sedative, or another person for that matter, was. It sounds as if the OP's friend was in a similar state.

 

[MedicinalHeroin]

Is Evan usually annoying and unruly?

Also I think its kind of funny that doctors give benzos to help people come down too. If someone I knew was freaking out during a trip I would definitely go back on my moral convictions against drugging someone against their knowledge and slip them a couple mg of etizolam in some water or something.

 

[Kl519]

I used to be in the military. We were all weekend warriors. Couldn't smoke weed... but psychedelics were urine safe.... We just did it the military way. Get out of hand, get a fist to your face... sleep a while. Wake up confused.... Better than any other cure I've tried.

Omg, this (with certain groups). At least with the threat of this beforehand, multiple "fists to the face" from everyone should keep a psycho in check.

On a more serious note, just ground the offender with a downer. Or just hold his arms behind him, and multiple people need to participate. Yet I think someone that out of control probably has other issues (and not solely due to the bad trip) and shouldn't be someone you trip around. But I guess you can't know someone is liable to do that unless it happens, or you've hung around them enough to know that they're not that stable.

It is my opinion that someone who does go into a psychotic break off of psychedelics aren't that mentally stable in the first place. It's just acid/shrooms/aMT/etc. Calm the F down, "check yourself before you wreck yourself," and remember that the goal is to have a good time.

 

[tacodude]

Sorry but why the hell would you call an ambulance? It's just a bit of acid FFS... it's not going to kill you. Did you enjoy spending the rest of your trip in hospital? That'll be on your medical record now.
This kind of shit makes us all look bad.


Erm... he failed miserably. He let his 'friend' smash his phone and lay waste to his apartment. Dude ended up going to hospital and police got involved.

Dude your absolutely terrible I'd never do drugs with you..... I could see you being someone who would let a dope shooting partner die of an overdose as you would rather not deal with the hospital. What the OP did was right. The person became a danger to himself, others, and his environment in the state of mind the LSD set off. Imagine if he broke into a car and hot wired it because he wanted to get home and was just tripping to hard to think better..... Imagine if the police caught him or worse he became paralyzed in a car accident. A police record or paralysis is much worse..... The OP made the smart move in a really serious situation.


Honestly you need to grow up before you do drugs with others. It's selfish to let someone hurt themself because you don't want to make your night work. It's childish to say that someone who has a bad trip makes all psychedelic users look bad. It's irresponsible people like you who struggle so much to take care of yourself has to blame others got their own shortcoming. If people don't approve of you using psychedelics than maybe you should ask yourself why because modern medicine is finally recognizing their medical value.

 

[AA357]

Dude your absolutely terrible I'd never do drugs with you

Why not?

..... I could see you being someone who would let a dope shooting partner die of an overdose as you would rather not deal with the hospital.

OK, two things:
1) I would never have a 'dope shooting partner'. I don't associate with smackheads. I don't care whether they inject it, smoke it, snort it or shove it up their ass... they are a liability and they disgust me.
2) If someone ever pulled out a bag of that shit in my flat I would tell them to GTFO. If I was round their place I would leave. If they were a friend or family member I would cut them off until they cleaned up their act.

What the OP did was right. The person became a danger to himself, others, and his environment in the state of mind the LSD set off. Imagine if he broke into a car and hot wired it because he wanted to get home and was just tripping to hard to think better..... Imagine if the police caught him or worse he became paralyzed in a car accident. A police record or paralysis is much worse..... The OP made the smart move in a really serious situation.

I never said the OP should have let him loose in the streets. It would have been much better to immobilize the offender and sedate him (if OP had access to sedatives).

Honestly you need to grow up before you do drugs with others. It's selfish to let someone hurt themself because you don't want to make your night work. It's childish to say that someone who has a bad trip makes all psychedelic users look bad. It's irresponsible people like you who struggle so much to take care of yourself has to blame others got their own shortcoming.

Haha what makes you think I struggle to take care of myself? I eat well, work hard, I have a really nice flat, I wrestle and I'm one of the best powerlifters in my gym. You sound like a right messhead - I'm probably twice as strong and much healthier than you.

If people don't approve of you using psychedelics than maybe you should ask yourself why because modern medicine is finally recognizing their medical value.

1) When did I say people don't approve of me taking psychedelics? Do you really think I give a fuck whether or not somebody thinks I should be taking them?
2) What does modern medicine 'finally recognizing their medical value' have to do with anything? We've known this for a long time. LSD and psilocin alleviate cluster headaches (AKA suicide headaches) and reduce frequency of attacks. Their use in psychotherapy has been studied for decades.

 

[Doldrugs]

I agree restraining and sedating them would have been better. It's what I'd prefer if I was the one freaking out. I'd also rather be punched in the face than end up outside or in a hospital during this kind of meltdown. Hospitals are great if your life is actually in danger, but if all you've taken are safe psychedelics you can't overdose on, I'd rather a lot of things than get involved with a hospital or the police.

This thread has inspired me to make this clear to people I trip with in the future.

 

[Trying2Iso]

Truth.
If anyone trips with me i'd rather tied to a chair in my own home until i'm done tripping.
It would be horrible to encounter police and end up in the ER... while tripping.
Plus risk legal troubles.
The psychedelics i do dont put me in physical danger, just could put me in a really bad place mentally until i come down.
Plus my state doesn't have Good Samaritan laws passed yet either.

 

[AA357]

I agree restraining and sedating them would have been better. It's what I'd prefer if I was the one freaking out. I'd also rather be punched in the face than end up outside or in a hospital during this kind of meltdown. Hospitals are great if your life is actually in danger, but if all you've taken are safe psychedelics you can't overdose on, I'd rather a lot of things than get involved with a hospital or the police.

This thread has inspired me to make this clear to people I trip with in the future.

Truth.
If anyone trips with me i'd rather tied to a chair in my own home until i'm done tripping.
It would be horrible to encounter police and end up in the ER... while tripping.
Plus risk legal troubles.
The psychedelics i do dont put me in physical danger, just could put me in a really bad place mentally until i come down.
Plus my state doesn't have Good Samaritan laws passed yet either.

THANK YOU, this is EXACTLY what I mean. While it might sound harsh and heavy-handed, my approach works out better for everybody. I am a competent skyhighatrist and I know how to deal with people who are on drugs. If a friend started acting fucked up round my flat, I'd be able to sort them out way faster than any doctor could.

By taking matters into your own hands:

- It's better from your perspective: You're taking care of your own safety and your possessions.
- It's better from their perspective: You're saving them the trauma of going to ER and encountering police while tripping balls.
- It's better for society: You are saving an unnecessary expense taxpayer and not wasting the time of paramedics, doctors and LEOs who undoubtedly have far more important shit to deal with than some guy having a bad trip.

As a trained grappler, my reaction would be to take the guy down and strangle him unconscious as smoothly and efficiently as possible. It's the most harmless way you can take somebody out. I've been choked out during sparring before and waking up from it is trippy as fuck. When you come round, you feel like you've been out for hours and expect to find yourself in your bed... there's no way you could just jump back up and resume fighting.
Getting them to take a sedative after this should be pretty easy.