What is wrong with the MDMA available today?

[Negi]

I am not sure what your vested interest is here. You came onto the thread, pushing hard for Q-Dance pills. You even sent me private messages encouraging me to buy Q-Dance pills. I cannot help but wonder what your motivation is. I always find it a bit odd when a new user to Bluelight comes to this thread to argue heavily for the quality of one specific brand of pill.

They have likely had good results with those pills. Q-Dance produces hundreds of thousands, if not millions of pills. They don't need to go around and shill them.

 

[indigoaura]

They have likely had good results with those pills. Q-Dance produces hundreds of thousands, if not millions of pills. They don't need to go around and shill them.

That was my first impression, for sure. If I had access to Q-dance pills, I would give them a go.

Don't get me wrong, I don't mean to imply that mars2025 is some kind of Q-dance operative. I just don't quite understand where he is coming from with his posts.

 

[indigoaura]

@mars2025 You said to "check for example Ann Shulgin's questionnaire on Erowid so you know the standard spectrum of MDMA effects."

The only Ann Shuglin result I found from a search for a questionnaire was this: https://erowid.org/chemicals/mdma/mdma_info12.shtml

Is that the right link?

Here, Ann Shulgin states:

The physical effects of MDMA have been observed over hundreds of experiments or sessions. The major effect appears to be one of de-stressing, both physically and mentally. Another common effect is anorexia (loss of appetite) which, in the case of a novice, may last for more than 24 hours after the session. Many people have a tendency to jaw-clenching, and in first and second-time use, there may be nystagmus (eye-wiggle) which some find disturbing, and other enjoyable. Both the jaw-clench and nystagmus tend to disappear almost entirely with subsequent use, but in the cases where they cause distress, a damp cloth held between the teeth can give some relief; in the case of the eye-wiggle, the client should be reminded that it is transient and harmless. (Note: jaw-clench can also be helped with chewing gum.)

There is often an awareness of the body's natural energy which can express itself as nervousness or a desire to move about. Not many people experience this as a negative aspect of the session, and may soon learn that a focusing of the attention in the direction desired, for instance to a personal problem or difficulty which needs resolutions, will help bring about a calming of the energy tremor.

Later, she goes on to comment,

MDMA is known as a chemical which brings about a condition of peacefulness, and ability to feel trust, a lowering of psychological barriers, and often an extraordinary increase in insight. It has proved, in the last few years, of great value in psychotherapy, and is being used increasingly by psychiatrists and mental health professionals.

So...when there is no nystagmus, desire to move about, peacefulness, trust, lowering of barriers, or insight...what is going on?

 

[Negi]

I think you focused on the wrong part of the sentence for nystagmus.

Many people have a tendency to jaw-clenching, and in first and second-time use, there may be nystagmus (eye-wiggle) which some find disturbing, and other enjoyable. Both the jaw-clench and nystagmus tend to disappear almost entirely with subsequent use

 

[AutoTripper]

And this is where it gets tricky, because I want to take people at face value when they say they are getting typical MDMA. But, I can imagine how you would rate it at 8.5 out of 10 if all you have experienced were variations of Meh. But, most of the reports you posted talked about euphoria or enhanced touch, so that makes me think that they are getting magic stuff.

Sorry honestly not meaning to patronise you at all Indigo, or undermine you in any way. I just can't help chucking in my own, philosophical subjective
experience-based perspective.

I was privileged to take many an amazing ecstasy pill. So good in fact on occasions, that even the cleanest, strong and still outstanding, genuinely magic MDMA pills would score 8.5/10 in comparison to those true 10's.

And those 8's and aboves would keep me forever happy on a desert island, don't get me wrong.

 

[indigoaura]

Sorry honestly not meaning to patronise you at all Indigo, or undermine you in any way. I just can't help chucking in my own, philosophical subjective
experience-based perspective.

I was privileged to take many an amazing ecstasy pill. So good in fact on occasions, that even the cleanest, strong and still outstanding, genuinely magic MDMA pills would score 8.5/10 in comparison to those true 10's.

And those 8's and aboves would keep me forever happy on a desert island, don't get me wrong.

I agree, absolutely, 100%. If I think of my range of MDMA experiences that did contain the characteristic qualities of MDMA, there were some stellar 10s, but most of them were 7-8s but still amazing.

This stuff I get today would be 1-2 on my scale, or not even on the scale at all. Maybe on a different scale entirely.

But, I am imagining someone who never had MDMA in a range of 3-10. What if all they had was MehDMA range 0-3? Would they believe it was 8/10 because it was some of the best stuff they had? I don't know, maybe?

 

[indigoaura]

I think you focused on the wrong part of the sentence for nystagmus.

Again...what about virgin MDMA users who do not have these classic, tell-tale signs?

This is not just about me. I would write myself off as tolerance if it was not for this thread and the research.

(also, got to add...really? nystagmus and jaw clenching that go away after subsequent uses? That was not my experience at all.)

 

[AutoTripper]

I agree, absolutely, 100%. If I think of my range of MDMA experiences that did contain the characteristic qualities of MDMA, there were some stellar 10s, but most of them were 7-8s but still amazing.

This stuff I get today would be 1-2 on my scale, or not even on the scale at all. Maybe on a different scale entirely.

But, I am imagining someone who never had MDMA in a range of 3-10. What if all they had was MehDMA range 0-3? Would they believe it was 8/10 because it was some of the best stuff they had? I don't know, maybe?

I can relate to this logical consideration fully.

I guess, fundamentally and I'm sure you've made this point may be in roundabout ways many times that they would not have something legitimate to compare it to in many cases so 10 would be like your 2 or maybe slightly above if they were luckier then you have been in recent years which I suspect is the case for quite a few people for whatever reason maybe regional.

It is essentially just a cheap thrill now for so many new users who have not yet encountered Magic MDMA. Maybe a different crowd is drawn to it entirely?

Like my friend Dominic. He loves a drink and smoke of weed, has a vibrant social life. He likes the "show" and buzz of taking Dutch imported "ecstasy". He is sort of a control freak not in a bad way when it comes to controlling others but just his own routine and persona and especially ego, he likes everything in order and predictable.

He is NOT deep. Not spirirtual or open like myself. Likes a neat edge at the field, no uncontrolled surprises. Domininc TOTALLY freaked out on shrooms. Every time, lost the plot. Could understand nothing. OCD repeating questions:-

What time is it? Why are my hands clammy?

We always assured him constantly but tiring after hours.

He was always fine afterwards.

But I am proposing the MehDma may be drawing a different demographic currently. So 8/10 cos they doent know better, and that is all they are looking for essentially?

Just thinking openly anyway.
Personally I would start feeling a bit palmed off with 7/10 minimum.

But I could go through my Extraordinary past drug taking memory now and think of a load of really excellent MDMA pills which would probably score an 8 compared to some of those world altering beauties.

So your 1 and 2 rates I'm sure would dissapoint me. Interesting!

 

[indigoaura]

Came across this on Erowid:

Erowid.org: Erowid Reference 1410 : Subjective and hormonal effects of 3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA) in humans : Harris DS, Baggott M, Mendelson J, Mendelson JE, Jones RT

The Index page for the reference article: Harris DS, Baggott M, Mendelson J, Mendelson JE, Jones RT Subjective and hormonal effects of 3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA) in humans Psychopharmacology (Berl) 2002 162:396-405

erowid.org

Rise in DHEA correlated with euphoria.

Does this imply that the MDMA euphoria is the result of DHEA release, or just that the two occurred simultaneously?

I have heard before that MDMA releases cortisol and oxytocin, but this is the first time I read about DHEA.

I am curious if anyone else is familiar with this?

 

[user666]

Came across this on Erowid:

Erowid.org: Erowid Reference 1410 : Subjective and hormonal effects of 3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA) in humans : Harris DS, Baggott M, Mendelson J, Mendelson JE, Jones RT

The Index page for the reference article: Harris DS, Baggott M, Mendelson J, Mendelson JE, Jones RT Subjective and hormonal effects of 3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA) in humans Psychopharmacology (Berl) 2002 162:396-405

erowid.org

Good find. I will add testing for Cortisol and DHEA in blood to the in-vivo tests for Meh MDMA. (I already added Prolactin earlier).

Does this imply that the MDMA euphoria is the result of DHEA release, or just that the two occurred simultaneously?

IMO it was just a correlation. To find out, ingest a large but non-toxic dose of DHEA and find out. In my country it can be bought OTC.

I am curious if anyone else is familiar with this?

I was not familiar with the effect of MDMA on DHEA before reading this article.

 

[indigoaura]

Good find. I will add testing for Cortisol and DHEA in blood to the the in-vivo tests for Meh MDMA. (I already added Prolactin earlier).

IMO it was just a correlation. To find out, ingest a large but non-toxic dose of DHEA and find out. In my country it can be bought OTC.

I was not familiar with the effect on DHEA before reading this article.

Despite my ongoing advocacy for additional testing and research to explore the MehDMA issue, I am open to the possibility that my problem is a personal problem. If DHEA is the reason for the euphoric element, I may be incapable of experiencing it. Recent testing has shown that I am deficient in pregnenolone. My understanding is that DHEA is generated from pregnenolone. The problem is that pregnenolone can either become cortisol or DHEA. This is why people who are in long term, high stress situations can end up with hormonal imbalances, because the pregnenolone is routed to become cortisol rather than DHEA.

 

[user666]

All the more reason to do an experiment with a bolus of DHEA.

 

[Negi]

Like my friend Dominic. He loves a drink and smoke of weed, has a vibrant social life. He likes the "show" and buzz of taking Dutch imported "ecstasy". He is sort of a control freak not in a bad way when it comes to controlling others but just his own routine and persona and especially ego, he likes everything in order and predictable.

He is NOT deep. Not spirirtual or open like myself. Likes a neat edge at the field, no uncontrolled surprises. Domininc TOTALLY freaked out on shrooms. Every time, lost the plot. Could understand nothing. OCD repeating questions:-

That seems to be a very judgemental description of an individual. Have you talked to them about what they experience and enjoy on MDMA?

 

[AutoTripper]

That seems to be a very judgemental description of an individual. Have you talked to them about what they experience and enjoy on MDMA?

It isn't judgemental. He is a long term friend. I accept him totally. We all have our unique characteristics.

You ask any person who knows him and they will attest that is an accurate description and most people I have met strongly dislike this character yet I have still accepted and treated him as a very good friend overtime I've just saying what his disposition is like because it is relevant to his Handling of psychedelic experience and preference for drugs like cocaine.

It was just an example to serve for the posit that maybe be a different crowd is drawn to MDMA at large nowadays who are looking for something totally different to the transcendental magic many others of us know and seek.

I've hardly seen or spoken to this friend for years so I haven't made much specific enquiry into his own experience of MDMA and what he gets out of it personally.

 

[Negi]

It was just an example to serve for the posit that maybe be a different crowd is drawn to MDMA at large nowadays who are looking for something totally different to the transcendental magic many others of us know and seek.

That's always been the case. The dealer who sold the MDMA for my first roll, which was packed with transcendental magic and extremely therapeutic, was snorting lines of the same batch to go to bars and pick up girls for one night stands. It's important to remember that the word "magic" is just a helpful descriptive, and doesn't indicate a supernatural power to fundamentally change what people are (especially in a setting of recreational intent).

 

[indigoaura]

@user666

Supplementing with DHEA has a lot of implications for a woman's hormonal balance. I am willing to do a lot in the name of this research, but I am not willing to take copious amounts of DHEA. That could really mess me up. Now, I may be taking a low-dose of DHEA a recommended by my doctor, and I will certainly report on that and whether it changes anything for me with my experience, but I am not willing to take heroic doses.

My glucometer arrived. I will figure out how to use it so that I am ready to measure glucose levels on the next roll.

 

[user666]

Please look up the half-life period for DHEA in your body.

 

[indigoaura]

Please look up the half-life period for DHEA in your body.

Would you be more clear about your implication here? I see it has a very short half-life, but it is still getting converted to androstenedione, testosterone, estrone, estradiol, and estriol. Any/all of those can throw off a woman's hormonal balance.

 

[AutoTripper]

Would you be more clear about your implication here? I see it has a very short half-life, but it is still getting converted to androstenedione, testosterone, estrone, estradiol, and estriol. Any/all of those can throw off a woman's hormonal balance.

Hi Indigo. You know, I always have underlying gut feelings and instincts, which I don't always trust.

Now, I really believe I have heard enough from so many angles to convince me that there is a vast difference between different batches of MDMA especially compared to the past average....


Just far too much smoke for there to be no cigar I'm afraid. Up until 2005 when I stopped my ecstasy taking I knew people who were in their late 40s who had been taking the drug since the 80s and they had not lost the magic and we're not talking about a decline in the quality of the MDMA or Mehdma at all.


That is an extremely crucial point to consider in this debate subjectively I think.

So I do not doubt at all that there is very poor quality and not real MDMA floating about in mass quantity.

But regarding your own experiences @indigoaura I honestly wondered if there was something healthwise or hormonal wise going on with you particularly right now which was affecting your experiences of MDMA?

I just really felt that way in my gut but that is not a counter argument against this thread in any way and I'm sure that magic MDMA would still be remarkably different to you vs the fake product.

Still I think it's a very good thing that you are prepared to explore this Avenue of consideration. I hope you get some revelation at some point.

 

[psy997]

I think hormones are a valid and important avenue of exploration, and I would like to note that I am both a male in my mid-late 20s and take care of myself health-wise more than 99% of people ever will. I highly doubt I'm experiencing hormonal issues affecting MDMA. Though, I am open to cortisol overproduction being an issue.

EDIT: Also, just saw someone post in the MDMA LTC thread about experiencing LTC issues after one use of 100mg. That is not normal.