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What is wrong with the MDMA available today?

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It's possible that our genetic has changed lead to inability for MDMA to interact with its receptors , if your dad was high user of mdmd in past and developed a Mutation you will get his DNA which will make you unable to feel MDMA even if you did not took it before , MDMA is neurotoxic this encourage the body to make a Mutation that will stop MDMA effect in even in later generations.
This my opinion *-*

This is honestly the only idea I will entertain beyond synthesis changes. We as a people are constantly changing, we even look different than we did 100yrs ago. It’s possible due to poor diet, environmental pollution, lack of exercise, etc, that something has caused this to happen.

For me personally, I don’t believe I’d still roll good if I hadn’t kept up heavily on health habits. I always told people my reasoning for being so healthy was so that I could still get fucked up on occasion and not feel bad about it.

I’ve watched countless people come and go with MDMA, but I’ve remained a constant. I can only attribute that to healthy living and proper use of MDMA.

But yea good point that we should entertain.

-GC
 
I would bet my house on it being the sassafras / saffrole change, I live in Manchester & up until that point we had good e’s on tap. They literally dried up within the space of a few months, massive drought & then nothing to that level since: I go to Amsterdam regularly and it’s exactly the same problem there. All pills are now 250mg + to make up for how shit the product is. Every pill I had up until 2009 was always dose around 100-130mg- No need for weird shapes or gimmicks to sell these things. I don’t take e’s anymore but I’m waiting patiently for the return of those beautiful little fuckers. The last time I came up properly was Nintendo’s / Mario’s / UFOs in 2015 - must of got hold of a bit of safrole oil eh

I remember weren’t those Mario’s and ufos supposed to be a domestic safrole press?

Appreciate you sharing your story :)

-GC
 
I think it's simply a changing of the guard.
You get gifted opportunities to experience, exploit, benefit from etc certain nuances in the particular moment in time. I think it's a sort of 'you have to be there to understand' thing.
What you know from your past is based on your generation, something which doesn't last despite you perhaps believing how things were for you is how it was, and always will be, for everyone else.

And with drugs, I think it's about the sub-cultures that are connected to the use of those drugs. That's where you find the time limited window into specific social and cultural paradigms that define that particular sub-culture. Of those paradigms might be social norms and values that emphasise certain shared cultural beliefs etc. When you look at the dance scene during the eighties and nineties, you can see that sub-cultures had a huge part to play in the exposure to the wider world of certain cultural beliefs and values that then rippled through society and along with those rippled provided the conduit for others to partake in similiar involvement, of which might have been the exposure to really good MDMA as a byproduct of being connected to those sub-cultures. That's why many people got wind of there being good MDMA around those times, because the influence from those sub-cultures was hard to ignore. It was effectively what the rave scene, hard dance, techno scenes etc were all about. You couldn't really put the eighties/nineties, hard dance and MDMA apart from one another. This is very much a cultural thing and along with it were the nuanced cultural values attached. And that often was having a really good time, which involved really good MDMA.

In past generations, you had more access to sub-cultures because the world was more divided, at least in the sense that localized cultural identity existed. There was a lot less pressures on local culture because the world was a lot smaller. There was more depth to local culture which allowed for sub-cultures to flourish because the overarching culture was isolated from the rest of the world, therefore more likely to be preserved. Today we have social media and the homogenization of culture until we are all effectively one big gloop, instead of pockets of islands with our own ways of life. And it's in these pockets of islands where certain nuances can be found, certain time limited windows into a particular way of life and along with it, particular perks of being there at that time. When one mainstream culture dominates all, the rest are left straggling under the pressure to conform to the overarching norms and values.

Naturally time moves on and due to rapidly changing world and the way in which we live our lives socially, what was once the norm and essential to way of life, is now secondary and obsolete and fading into history. I can definetly see that over the last few decades there has been a huge change in the quality of drugs available and I think it's heavily linked to the changing of culture and how people perceive what is important about them. It's more about quantity than quality. It's more about the superficial process of consuming them, as apposed to their usage having beneficial and meaningful purposes ie used in connection to a particular setting, for a specific purpose, with particular values and beliefs attached etc.

For good drugs to be central to peoples lives, people have to first believe that is important and secondly have been fortunate enough to have experienced both good drugs and a sense of identity to a particular set of cultural beliefs that puts the importance of this as a top priority. Today people would rather score impure, perhaps even bunk, MDMA because culturally they have no sense of direction when it comes to identifying with what they are doing, no rituals, no community, no wisdom nor advice garnered from past generations, no connection to a particular shared reality that considers this important.

That's a good post with many valid points. Its analogous to the LSD explosion of the 60s.. Although LSD had been bubbling around in the underground since its discovery, when it became mainstream it created a revolution and a whole counterculture.

Eventually, LSD just became another drug and the mythology around it dissipated.

But how many times have you heard old hippies saying the acid was better in the 60s?


However, I was never caught up in the Ecstasy scene. When I finally caught on to the drug in the mid 90s, it was usually in small social situations with a few friends, or on my own at home.

So for me, the set and setting has been pretty consistent, but the drugs have gone to shit...
 
I feel like we are just relitigating the past hundred pages of the old thread in a much more compact form, but I guess this makes it easier for new users to catch up.


This is what I was trying to get around by focusing on new user reports. The view that MDMA is mediocre or even bad these days is heavily concentrated in longterm users (in terms of how long since their first MDMA usage) who are comparing it to experiences often years in the past. While some like those in the thread have found batches that seem to buck the trend, others haven't (or don't report it) making it hard to rule out tolerance or rose tinted glasses for many of the reports.


This is much more of an indicator that something is up. But it's not a common view. Most first time experience reports are glowing, with people reporting that they can't wait to try it again. And it's not like people wouldn't post underwhelming experiences, it's a meme at this point that people are constantly making "I tried cocaine and don't see the hype" posts on Reddit. You don't see that for MDMA.


I thought we had covered that in the old thread. EDM is mainstream now, the majority of attendees at a festival or large event are going to getting drunk, not taking MDMA.

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I'm not trying to say that your experiences haven't happened, but I don't see the evidence that they have been caused by a change that has impacted the majority of the worlds MDMA supply.

Ok most first time reports you see are glowing simply because no ones is going to post about the first dud experience they had. Glowing reports get put up most often cuz people feel amazing and want to tell the world.

-GC
 
That's a good post with many valid points. Its analogous to the LSD explosion of the 60s.. Although LSD had been bubbling around in the underground since its discovery, when it became mainstream it created a revolution and a whole counterculture.

Eventually, LSD just became another drug and the mythology around it dissipated.

But how many times have you heard old hippies saying the acid was better in the 60s?


However, I was never caught up in the Ecstasy scene. When I finally caught on to the drug in the mid 90s, it was usually in small social situations with a few friends, or on my own at home.

So for me, the set and setting has been pretty consistent, but the drugs have gone to shit...
well acid was at a level in the 1960's never seen again with the dosage and the purity mark aswell with nick sands. The DEA was dumb founded how they got there product so precise and pure. Same goes for mdma these days so many black rock brown rock impure stuff around that doesn't even reach 70-80% purity on the global market while the really pure 90% + mdma is usually kept to the dutch scene or you have to really do some digging to find suppliers. The MDMA earlier in the year here was testing at 92% complete pure white crystals and powders.

The mdma which is been pressed into pills i recently found out is mostly that fucking black rock shit on a mass scale overcooked maybe like 50% purity. So if you are taking 50% pure mdma at 100 mg thats only like 50 mg of acutal product no wonder why the pills where been dosed up to 300 mg if its 50% purity. Now that other 50% of random shit probably just takes up all the space in your brain for the real mdma to bond to the receptors. MDMA holds a important place for the world just like the LSD of the 60's. Youth need it more than ever to feel some emphatic connection.

My issue with things is people claiming only safrole makes "magic mdma" when its not its about competent cooks making high purity drugs to get the desired effect of said drug. Thats like doing 15% cocaine and claiming all cocaine in the world including the cartel bricks are all bad. When in fact it was the dodgy street dealer who cut the drug with all manners of shit. Now we live in 2021 if people just turned their brain on and did some research on how to get good quality drugs instead of just getting themselves ripped off they wouldn't have to complain.
 
Here’s an example of just how inaccurate these GCMS tests really are...

A recent lab test of LSD dropped onto a Tums. Notice how they say they can’t definitively say if LSD is there or not because the Tums peaks overlap with LSD. TUMS!!

It’s my belief things can hide easier than we realize in those graphs, and if a simple calcium carbonate Tums can block the LSD peaks on a test truly makes you wonder what else is getting missed.


-GC
 
Here’s an example of just how inaccurate these GCMS tests really are...

A recent lab test of LSD dropped onto a Tums. Notice how they say they can’t definitively say if LSD is there or not because the Tums peaks overlap with LSD. TUMS!!

It’s my belief things can hide easier than we realize in those graphs, and if a simple calcium carbonate Tums can block the LSD peaks on a test truly makes you wonder what else is getting missed.


-GC
GCMS is only ever as good as the chemist and their method. Somethings can be really tough coming up with a extraction method to try isolate the thing you are trying to analyze from all the other things in the sample. Different industries have varying qualities of their gc/ms machines aswell. But there is alot of incompetent chemists around have worked with many retards that you wonder if they just bought a fake degree from india.
 
Here’s an example of just how inaccurate these GCMS tests really are...

A recent lab test of LSD dropped onto a Tums. Notice how they say they can’t definitively say if LSD is there or not because the Tums peaks overlap with LSD. TUMS!!

It’s my belief things can hide easier than we realize in those graphs, and if a simple calcium carbonate Tums can block the LSD peaks on a test truly makes you wonder what else is getting missed.


-GC
I would not take that even if it was given to me by an angel from above.
 
Ok most first time reports you see are glowing simply because no ones is going to post about the first dud experience they had. Glowing reports get put up most often cuz people feel amazing and want to tell the world.
Did you even read the post? People complain about dud drugs all the time, just try searching for "tried cocaine". A few samples:
I tried cocaine for the first time and I’m disappointed
I did 4 ‘lines’ and just felt energetic and my mouth went numb. Is this what all the rich people are obsessed about?
Complete waste of money
After having tried cocaine multiple times at different doses, Caffeine hits me harder
I can't figure out if I am not taking enough or if there is a brain chemical issue but I can't seem to really feel high on cocaine. Bumps barely make me feel anything and after a few lines I might start feeling more energetic and focused. Gumming does make my face feel numb but is similar to snorting with how I feel otherwise. In contrast caffine gets me extremely energetic, sometimes drinking a monster even makes me euphoric. Anyone have any thoughts?

MDMA has just as much hype built up around it as cocaine, yet very few people are making "excuse me, I was promised ecstasy" posts. I do see them from time to time, but nearly all of them are due to SSRIs or untested product.
 
Did you even read the post? People complain about dud drugs all the time, just try searching for "tried cocaine". A few samples:



MDMA has just as much hype built up around it as cocaine, yet very few people are making "excuse me, I was promised ecstasy" posts. I do see them from time to time, but nearly all of them are due to SSRIs or untested product.
MDMA has proven benefits that are far more superior to many other drugs, cocaine being one of them. The hype is real, when it's real MDMA.
If there's a therapeutic drug out there, MDMA is one of them. And that's what it began as before it began being made in clandestine labs and popped up all over the place. It began in the rooms, offices, spaces of therapists for use in psychotherapy and was called 'Adam'. It's now on it's way back to being that tool in psychotherapy if MAPS can get it passed, which is very likely as it's exceeded all requirements so far and got given breakthrough therapy designation last December. This means it could be a prescription medication as soon as 2023.

It's not hype, not at all. Not unless you're abusing it and don't understand it's benefits.
Cocaine on the other hand, very unlikely to find it's way onto a prescription in the same way MDMA would/likely is going to be.
 
My issue with things is people claiming only safrole makes "magic mdma" when its not its about competent cooks making high purity drugs to get the desired effect of said drug.
I do agree with this. Several of the meh batches I have had were supposedly synthed from safrole, but in someone's bathroom probably. Some corner was still cut in the wrong way.

if people just turned their brain on and did some research on how to get good quality drugs instead of just getting themselves ripped off they wouldn't have to complain.
Not a fair statement. My brain is fairly well turned on, but my circles are professional and not party circles. I don't know how to get an "in" into the right niche social circle that would have what I need, and the DW is so full of scams and bullshit that it is like playing slots in Vegas.
 
Did you even read the post? People complain about dud drugs all the time, just try searching for "tried cocaine". A few samples:



MDMA has just as much hype built up around it as cocaine, yet very few people are making "excuse me, I was promised ecstasy" posts. I do see them from time to time, but nearly all of them are due to SSRIs or untested product.

I could ask you the same... You seem to ignore everything that goes against your belief.

Dude you quite obviously sit on the Internet and have never actually experienced many of these drug scenes you speak so definitively about..

Cocaine “hype” is much higher if you look at posts from both cocaine and mdma subreddit, cocaine posts glamorizing use are like 5-10x more than MDMA.

That said trying to even compare cocaine experiences and “duds” to MDMA is just plain stupid. The variables between the two drugs are nearly infinite. Their mode of action, they’re duration, their purity, their source, all different..

And I disagree there’s posts fairly often asking what happened to MDMA on there.. Maybe I watch the subreddit better than you?

-GC
 
That said trying to even compare cocaine experiences and “duds” to MDMA is just plain stupid. The variables between the two drugs are nearly infinite. Their mode of action, they’re duration, their purity, their source, all different..
I'm not comparing the effects in the slightest. All I'm using those examples for is to say that when people have a disappointing first time with a drug, they are more than happy to complain on the internet about it.

And I disagree there’s posts fairly often asking what happened to MDMA on there.. Maybe I watch the subreddit better than you?
That's not what I'm talking about. Like I said on the last page:
The view that MDMA is mediocre or even bad these days is heavily concentrated in longterm users (in terms of how long since their first MDMA usage) who are comparing it to experiences often years in the past. While some like those in the thread have found batches that seem to buck the trend, others haven't (or don't report it) making it hard to rule out tolerance or rose tinted glasses for many of the reports.
I am aware that this thread is not the only place on the internet that people believe that MDMA has changed for the worst since they started using it. I'm not talking about them. I'm focusing on first time user experiences, because they completely rule out any issues of tolerance, losing the magic, or even becoming habituated to the experience.

Multiple users in this thread have attested that mehDMA is a disappointing and mediocre experience even for new users, who don't have previous experience with "magic" MDMA. I am saying that there don't appear to be any significant number of first time reports that match the mehDMA symptoms, and most report effects that users in this thread attribute to "magic" MDMA.
 
@Negi - I am sometimes told that I come across as combative, when that is not my intent. So, I understand that sometimes our intentions and what we generate through writing are not in sync. However, sometimes it really seems like you are just looking for small details in posts to debate, but you ignore the larger point or bigger picture. And sometimes people make posts directly to you and ask you things or bring up issues that you 100% ignore.

I believe your intentions are good, but it does often feel like the people who are trying to explain what they are experiencing are having to defend themselves.

For example, we just had a new contributor to the thread who shared a story about a group of people doing subpar, meh-DMA. He said new users and experienced users had the same lackluster experience. Instead of accepting his story, you argued with him about the semantics of the word "thousands" as used to describe the quantity of complaints about MDMA. The larger point, which was clear to me from his post, was that many people complain of this phenomenon.

You keep wanting to use reddit as some kind of litmus test, never-mind the fact that reddit itself is a subcommunity, and the reddit MDMA forum is an even smaller subcommunity. Not everyone has a reddit account, and not everyone would be comfortable talking about their illicit drug experience on reddit. Different websites attract different types of profiles and are going to generate different information. Somewhere like the Hive for example, would have much more detailed and chemistry specific information than reddit.

I don't say any of this with malice or ill intent. I appreciate the way you challenge the thread and bring up new information and perspective. But there are A LOT of people in this thread who are articulating basically the same thing, and I do think it would be more productive to try to figure out the "whys" of that collective experience than debating minutia.

For whatever it is worth, I think if someone had never done MDMA and did MehDMA as a first experience, the most likely reaction would be "Ok, that was MDMA. It was ok. I was fucked up, but I felt like shit afterwards so I don't know that it is really worth my time." I think they would associate that subpar experience with the MDMA and not think much else of it. They would not complain the internet because it was not totally fake, they were definitely fucked up, but just not that impressed.

You described having an experience that lacked euphoria. If you had never experienced a typical euphoric roll, what would you have thought of that non-euphoric roll if you had no basis of comparison?

I never wrote anything online about my one and only cocaine experience because it was just so dull. I assumed that was just cocaine, and it was boring, and I moved on to other things.
 
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They definitely had that feel to them. I took mdma / pills most weekends from 2007 - 2009 & my stash dried out a few years later. We used to buy 500 lovehearts for £500 and they lasted us for a while. Every single time we would come up like a rocket and then things changed in the synth. I’m not complaining, just very grateful that we got to enjoy those nights. Hundreds of them at sankeys & in ibiza. We need those times back more than ever now.
 
They definitely had that feel to them. I took mdma / pills most weekends from 2007 - 2009 & my stash dried out a few years later. We used to buy 500 lovehearts for £500 and they lasted us for a while. Every single time we would come up like a rocket and then things changed in the synth. I’m not complaining, just very grateful that we got to enjoy those nights. Hundreds of them at sankeys & in ibiza. We need those times back more than ever now.

That "coming up like a rocket" feeling is one of the key differences to me.
 
Happy New Year to all of you!

I will be trying some new product here in a bit, and will try to keep you in the loop. Drugs Data reports "MDMA," but I have no idea what the purity is.

I would like to hit a 150 mg dosage. Published research I have seen on mydriasis seems to indicate that 150 mg produces the most mydriasis.

However, I don't know what purity this product is. I had another batch that was white and looked quite pure that was only 80 out of 100% purity (not out of 84%, this was confirmed with IEC).

This product is less white than that, and visually seems less pure. Also, reagent tests seemed weak, slower color changes and more diluted color. I know you cannot really tell by appearances, but I really do not think this is more than 80% pure.

So, I could take 200 mg and my dosage would probably be in the 160 mg range, or I could take abt 190 mg and the dosage would probably be in the 152 range. I realize these are guesstimates, but I would really like to be assured of hitting 150 mg of MDMA.

I am planning to dissolve in water to eliminate any issues with polymorphism.

@user666, my glucometer is standing by as well.

Edited to add - I have never double dropped in my life. For all the talk of burning out receptors, I have always been a "start with one pill" kind of person. The max mg dosage I have taken in one dose is 155 mg (and that was the 80% pure product).

See ya'll in 2021. :D
 
For example, we just had a new contributor to the thread who shared a story about a group of people doing subpar, meh-DMA. He said new users and experienced users had the same lackluster experience. Instead of accepting his story, you argued with him about the semantics of the word "thousands" as used to describe the quantity of complaints about MDMA. The larger point, which was clear to me from his post, was that many people complain of this phenomenon.
I did accept the personal aspects of his story. If I had issues with it I would have raised questions or asked for clarification. I try to make it clear in my posts that I accept the personal experiences people are having - they are certainly the authority on what they are feeling. However when the topic and scope expands outwards into things that are more observable and quantifiable, I feel like discussion should happen.

You keep wanting to use reddit as some kind of litmus test, never-mind the fact that reddit itself is a subcommunity, and the reddit MDMA forum is an even smaller subcommunity. Not everyone has a reddit account, and not everyone would be comfortable talking about their illicit drug experience on reddit. Different websites attract different types of profiles and are going to generate different information. Somewhere like the Hive for example, would have much more detailed and chemistry specific information than reddit.
People robs banks because that's where the money is. I post about Reddit because that's where the users are (especially new/younger ones). The Reddit MDMA subreddit has over 140,000 subscribers, the general drugs one has over 730,000. They both have dozens of posts every day with high levels of engagement in the comments. As far as I know they are likely the most active drug discussion forums on the current internet (I'm not willing to wade into the morass of "sesh" and drug meme Facebook pages). Sure, it's no more than a fraction of a fraction of the current drug using population, but it's the largest single window I know of to view it. The last time I checked Erowid had only a handful of first time MDMA reports from recent years, either due to a lack of submissions or the heavy backlog of reports that still need to be reviewed. You can get that many in a single week on Reddit.

I do think it would be more productive to try to figure out the "whys" of that collective experience than debating minutia.
I feel that discovering the scope of this issue is key to discovering a "why". If it turns out that this isn't a widespread issue, it can eliminate some suspects, such as the switch to PMK.

You described having an experience that lacked euphoria. If you had never experienced a typical euphoric roll, what would you have thought of that non-euphoric roll if you had no basis of comparison?
I probably would have considered it "ok", if I just had alcohol and weed to compare it to. If I had done any reading of say Erowid trip reports (or Reddit posts) I would have been disappointed and asking some questions.
 
Not sure if this is the right thread for this, but I procured some “mdma” last night and had quite a disappointing experience. I remember 10 years ago when I got pills they were smackers. Extreme euphoria, increased empathy and sociability, slight stimulation. Whatever I got last night was terrible. All it did was give me the negative side effects of mdma (nystagmus, dilated pupils, weird temperature fluctuations, drowsiness, and it also made me even more introverted). What the hell is going around these days? Is it because I’m older and my drug addled brain doesn’t respond the same? I haven’t done any stims or other mdma like drugs for years. What possibly could this substance have been?
 
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