What is wrong with the MDMA available today?

[indigoaura]

I've certainly taken that into consideration, but seeing as I dose between 150-300mg with months inbetween AND have friends who dose 100-150mg, never more, saying the same thing, I don't think it's coincidence, but the chemistry.

But fuck do I know?
I might have fucked MDMA for myself, but I'm having a hard time dismissing how many people notice a diff.

I am in the same boat as you. Everyone in my circle says the same thing. People new to MDMA are underwhelmed as well. I would be willing to write myself off as a tolerance case, but as I have said many times, if the issue was ME then I would see someone else rolling off this shit. There would be a party where everyone was rolling but me. Someone's eyes would dilate. Someone's jaw would be lopsided. I have yet to see anyone "rolling balls" off the products I have had access to.

 

[indigoaura]

Yeah, of course.

It's consistently been more speedy, shorter duration, less "I-FUCKING-LOVE-THE-WORLD". The only stuff I've found that felt the same as "old-school" MDMA was a vendor actually selling off his last sass-batch.
People say a molecule is a molecule and no matter what stages of chemistry-sorcery brought is there and what precoursors are used, the product remains the same. I'm not a chemist, but I've rolled more times than I can count and this new MDMA-formula is different.
I'm not the only one, everyone in my krew who drops MD has also noticed the diff the last few years.

I dropped 300mg yesterday. What. A. Fucking. Bummer.

And yes, I test my shit since I usually buy 15g+

Can you clarify what you mean when you say speedy? In the batches I get, there can be some intense jaw tremors that have a speedy quality, but the overall effect is more sedated, negative, and couch locked. Yes, it lacks the euphoria and empathy, (no loving the world), but there is not much energy to it.

 

[tubgirl.jpg]

Can you clarify what you mean when you say speedy? In the batches I get, there can be some intense jaw tremors that have a speedy quality, but the overall effect is more sedated, negative, and couch locked. Yes, it lacks the euphoria and empathy, (no loving the world), but there is not much energy to it.

Well, you kind of nailed it. I feel speedy in my head, like I want to dance, talk and do shit, but the sedative side keeps me sitting.
Sorry for formulating that in a nonsensial way.

And yeah, the euphoria, pfft - gone like a working girl when dough has been given.

 

[Higherfocus420]

Can you clarify what you mean when you say speedy? In the batches I get, there can be some intense jaw tremors that have a speedy quality, but the overall effect is more sedated, negative, and couch locked. Yes, it lacks the euphoria and empathy, (no loving the world), but there is not much energy to it.

Well, you kind of nailed it. I feel speedy in my head, like I want to dance, talk and do shit, but the sedative side keeps me sitting.
Sorry for formulating that in a nonsensial way.

And yeah, the euphoria, pfft - gone like a working girl when dough has been given.

maybe you lot are getting mdvp or mda there are literally so many different researach Chemicals nowadays but I never roll as hard nowadays due to abuse you will know mdma it has a foul bittersweet taste and is proper chill even a bit trippy despite being a stimulant

 

[tubgirl.jpg]

maybe you lot are getting mdvp or mda there are literally so many different researach Chemicals nowadays but I never roll as hard nowadays due to abuse you will know mdma it has a foul bittersweet taste and is proper chill even a bit trippy despite being a stimulant

I thought so aswell, but since buying reagents I'm pretty certain I get clean shit from the DN.
Anybody selling shit gets hung, drawn and quartered on the market-forum, and people to consistent lab-testing and post there.

But hey, you might be right.

 

[Higherfocus420]

I thought so aswell, but since buying reagents I'm pretty certain I get clean shit from the DN.
Anybody selling shit gets hung, drawn and quartered on the market-forum, and people to consistent lab-testing and post there.

But hey, you might be right.

I'm not sure but I think thecprecursour they use might be different due to being illega and hard to obtain l I know that how pure it's made can affect the potency like even pure mdma can have impurities within the batch same with meth

 

[psy997]

David nichols synthesies the pharma grade mdma for maps why has no one emailed him because he would laugh his ass off and tell them they fried there brains and become what is commonly known as E-tard.

Your contributions to this thread are consistently poor, and somehow you manage to dip below your own standard.

 

[Observer01]

Can we think of any other compounds where different synthesis routes and/or precursors lead to a different end product quality? I'm not even necessarily talking illegal drugs, could be anything, Tylenol, whatever.

I just don't know enough about chemistry to make a judgement on the "if the end molecule = X, then it is all the same no matter how it was synthesized" debate.

 

[indigoaura]

maybe you lot are getting mdvp or mda there are literally so many different researach Chemicals nowadays but I never roll as hard nowadays due to abuse you will know mdma it has a foul bittersweet taste and is proper chill even a bit trippy despite being a stimulant

Product has been sent to multiple labs and the results are MDMA. Please read the first post and the summary post.

 

[indigoaura]

I think focusing on this "MDMA is MDMA" concept misses the whole point. Yes, MDMA is MDMA.

What we think is going on is more likely that something that is not MDMA is being falsely identified as MDMA. Or, that a secondary compound is interfering with MDMA.

Even MAPS acknowledges that the slightest variation in manufacturing can impact the end product. Ambient temperature can change the end product, according to MAPS. It is not that far fetched of a concept that something is going wrong with the modern synths, or that the precursors are different in some way or contaminated and that impacts the synth in unexpected ways.

 

[Observer01]

I think focusing on this "MDMA is MDMA" concept misses the whole point. Yes, MDMA is MDMA.

What we think is going on is more likely that something that is not MDMA is being falsely identified as MDMA. Or, that a secondary compound is interfering with MDMA.

Even MAPS acknowledges that the slightest variation in manufacturing can impact the end product. Ambient temperature can change the end product, according to MAPS. It is not that far fetched of a concept that something is going wrong with the modern synths, or that the precursors are different in some way or contaminated and that impacts the synth in unexpected ways.

Understood, and I'm not challenging that. But as far as your statement that "what we think is going on is more likely that something that is not MDMA is being falsely identified as MDMA", it seem's Negri's communications with the scientist in the Netherlands (which is a really solid connect), seems to think that if it was some type of analogue that they would catch it. And that 2-3 MDMA is not the culprit. So that leaves either the precursor, or contaminants as the only possible causes right?

 

[indigoaura]

2,3 MDMA is not the only possible culprit.

Someone more knowledgeable step in if I am wrong here, but my understanding is that in order for GCMS to identify compounds you have to have that particular compound entered in your system, and you have to be looking for it. Just because they are looking for 2,3 MDMA and that is not the culprit, that does not mean that they are looking for every other isobaric derivative. @Negi, was your contact implying that they would be able to identify every isobaric derivative or just 2,3 MDMA?

Based on what I have read, I personally think contaminants are more likely to be the issue, but I can't prove that without having a lab who is willing to take samples and run more a more complex analysis than just GCMS.

 

[Deleted member 521610]

you dont need it in your library a chemist just looks at the gc/ms graphs and can tell what the compound is.

 

[Hylight]

Yeah.

 

[Negi]

@Negi, was your contact implying that they would be able to identify every isobaric derivative or just 2,3 MDMA?

Here's the relevant part of his reply:

I am aware of the potential risk of forensic laboratories to encounter a novel, yet uncontrolled, positional isomer of MDMA and we've put additional QC checks in place to detect this and prevent a false positive identifications.
However, from both my own experience and trend reports (e.g. UNODC, EMCDDA reports) and the NPS Early Warning website https://www.unodc.org/LSS/Home/NPS we don't have any signs that MDMA positional isomers actually do appear on the street markets in a vast amount.
I know that 2,3-MDMA exists; but I've never encountered this in a case sample until now. I've studied this compound as this one might have near-similar MS fragmentation and pose a risk for a false positive. We've found that retention time and GC-MS match still can give a first clue and additional analysis by GC-VUV can clearly distinguish them (see paper enclosed).

He is saying that they can detect something is off and do further investigations to identify it.

To quote from the paper he included:

When dealing with new isomers for the first time, for which no reference spectra are available in the libraries, small but significant deviations from expected match scores and retention times could even serve as an alarm to trigger additional investigation into the composition of the sample using more elaborate techniques

Could they miss something? Sure, it's possible. But it's literally his job to find them and also he's doing research into multiple approaches to solving the issue.

 

[indigoaura]

Here's the relevant part of his reply:


He is saying that they can detect something is off and do further investigations to identify it.

To quote from the paper he included:


Could they miss something? Sure, it's possible. But it's literally his job to find them and also he's doing research into multiple approaches to solving the issue.

Were you able to follow up with him to ask about his perspective on active synthesis byproducts?

 

[indigoaura]

@TripSitterNZ You said, "you dont need it in your library a chemist just looks at the gc/ms graphs and can tell what the compound is" but this is the exact opposite of what Drugs Data told me. They were in the process of trying to obtain reference samples to check for the presence of various isobaric derivatives.

 

[tubgirl.jpg]

I'm not sure but I think thecprecursour they use might be different due to being illega and hard to obtain l I know that how pure it's made can affect the potency like even pure mdma can have impurities within the batch same with meth

Yeah, they've replaced (most) sassafras with PMK-something due to the tree or whatever containing sass is on the brink of extinction or some shit.

It definately makes a difference. People can call me an idiot and a moron, but I'm certain that when you replace on precoursor with something completely diff, it does indeed fuck-up the original effects of the molecule.

 

[Deleted member 521610]

Yeah, they've replaced (most) sassafras with PMK-something due to the tree or whatever containing sass is on the brink of extinction or some shit.

It definately makes a difference. People can call me an idiot and a moron, but I'm certain that when you replace on precoursor with something completely diff, it does indeed fuck-up the original effects of the molecule.

most the sass trees were burnt down by the UN in south east asia but PMK was already in use as early as 2005 til pmk-glycidate came along around 2011. All saforole oil was made into pmk then mdma anyway whenever the Chinese did it or the producers did it made no difference. mdp2p oil or pmk is the intermediate. Chemisty is chemistry its the same dam thing been made even if you have 10 different routes.

 

[tubgirl.jpg]

Like I said, call me an idiot. I just know what I've experienced and what my friends have told me.
I'm no chemist, but isn't there a diff between PMK & PMK-glycidate?
You seem to have a handle on the process of manufacturing MDMA.

I'm not saying I'm right, I'm just saying that MDMA doesn't effect me the way it once did, even after several looooong breaks.
Maybe I've fucked my brain doing too much MDMA while younger, but I never noticed any impairment then.