What is wrong with the MDMA available today?

[TripSitterNZ]

Like I said, call me an idiot. I just know what I've experienced and what my friends have told me.
I'm no chemist, but isn't there a diff between PMK & PMK-glycidate?
You seem to have a handle on the process of manufacturing MDMA.

I'm not saying I'm right, I'm just saying that MDMA doesn't effect me the way it once did, even after several looooong breaks.
Maybe I've fucked my brain doing too much MDMA while younger, but I never noticed any impairment then.

the pmk gylicdate is just cleaved leaving pmk its just a techinal thing to get around the legal implications of importing it into holland but its illegal now anyway but the ports get paid off still.

Synthesis can go wrong and you can you clearly see that in the product sold which ends up been total black toxic crystals shit must be less than 60% pure people will still take it idiot kids will still buy it on the web. I have done alot of mdma but also have done so many extreme dose psychedelic trips that rewire the brain everytime that it kept my neural pathways in a good state so maybe i can still feel all the mdma. There are 100% people out there who burn out their receptors with to much heavy use. Seems most complainers about meh stuff seem to be smack bang in the middle of america where the chances of acutal pure mdma that is acutally from the netherlands reaching them very slim. Now idk how these redneck sweet home albama chemists make their bath tub drugs and sell it off in those places i bet these so called mdma were probably made with safrole oils yet still don't give the people their effects.


The only way of solving this if A. A person like myself who claims to always feel the magic takes the same product with the people who claim it does nothing for them and must be wrong. If that product gives me the magic then this entire issue is solved and thus people have 100% burnt their own brains out.


Now mdma is hitting a world wide shortage so even getting mdma is becoming more a mission and most likely shit loads of cathoines are about to take over the market.

 

[tubgirl.jpg]

the pmk gylicdate is just cleaved leaving pmk its just a techinal thing to get around the legal implications of importing it into holland but its illegal now anyway but the ports get paid off still.

Synthesis can go wrong and you can you clearly see that in the product sold which ends up been total black toxic crystals shit must be less than 60% pure people will still take it idiot kids will still buy it on the web. I have done alot of mdma but also have done so many extreme dose psychedelic trips that rewire the brain everytime that it kept my neural pathways in a good state so maybe i can still feel all the mdma. There are 100% people out there who burn out their receptors with to much heavy use. Seems most complainers about meh stuff seem to be smack bang in the middle of america where the chances of acutal pure mdma that is acutally from the netherlands reaching them very slim. Now idk how these redneck sweet home albama chemists make their bath tub drugs and sell it off in those places i bet these so called mdma were probably made with safrole oils yet still don't give the people their effects.


The only way of solving this if A. A person like myself who claims to always feel the magic takes the same product with the people who claim it does nothing for them and must be wrong. If that product gives me the magic then this entire issue is solved and thus people have 100% burnt their own brains out.


Now mdma is hitting a world wide shortage so even getting mdma is becoming more a mission and most likely shit loads of cathoines are about to take over the market.

Allright, thanks for schooling me. Always appreciated to learn something new.

I've done many extremely dosed psychedelic trips aswell, and still feel both LSD, shrooms and 2C-B like I used to.
From what I've read psychedelics does indeed promote structural and functional neural plasticity, but I don't think that has anything to do with it.
Drawing from your conclusion, I should still feel MDMA like I used to.
My friend who's had about 5 rolls in over 7 years should still feel the magic, ain't nothing burnt with his brain.

I think your way of "solving this" is both a bit condescending and bordering on hubris; you don't seem to hear to many THOUSANDS of people all across reddit, drugs-forum, here and several other platforms who claim the same thing that I do.
I use reagents and never drop shit that's not tested. I just don't see it as a coincidence that the ban of safrole and the new shitty MDMA hit the market to close together.

I'm not from the states, but scandinavia. I get my stash from either DNM where people post lab-results and those selling fake shit gets tossed out on their asses quicker than you can say 'sass', or by simply going (pre-covid) to the Netherlands.

I'm glad MDMA is still the same for you, but take into consideration that effects are individual.
And yes, the magic might be gone for me, but it feels unlikely - I've seen friends do MDMA twice a week for months and then being wrecked, completely trashed; I'm not there, nor anywhere near.

Thanks for clearing out the PMK-terms; other than that, I don't think we'll reach much further in this discussion.
Take care man, I wish you all the best!

 

[Negi]

you don't seem to hear to many THOUSANDS of people all across reddit, drugs-forum, here and several other platforms who claim the same thing that I do.

Are there thousands though? This was a point of contention I've brought up a few times in this thread. The majority of current experience reports don't match the effects people point to for mehDMA. This is especially true if you focus on first time reports, to rule out any possibility of tolerance.

 

[tubgirl.jpg]

Are there thousands though? This was a point of contention I've brought up a few times in this thread. The majority of current experience reports don't match the effects people point to for mehDMA. This is especially true if you focus on first time reports, to rule out any possibility of tolerance.

I honestly have no clue. I pulled the number out of my ass. But I hang at drug-forums such as BL, D-F, reddit subs, swedish drug-forums, norwegian drug-forums, darknet-forums - I've found the same complaint on every platform.

But, like I said, I maybe totally off on this one. Me and my friends and those I've talked to. Most are not first-timers, but most are not abusive either (at least my friends, even though I've been).

It's a shame, though, if I have fucked my synapses and all that.
But hey, those times were awesome, I can still spell my own name and don't suffer any physcial or mental impairment from my MDMdays.
So, a shame, but nothing I'll mourn.

 

[F.U.B.A.R.]

This is what's missing from MehDMA.




Man, those little green mints...

 

[AutoTripper]

Got back the results for my recent sample (not consumed yet).

DrugsData.org (was EcstasyData): Test Details : Result #9535 - MDMA, 9535

DrugsData (EcstasyData) lab testing result

www.drugsdata.org

Pleased to see that I have submitted a sample that comes back as just MDMA. Not MDMA + MDA, or MDMA + some weird byproduct. Of course, I don't know what the percentage of purity is, but at least there are not some weird remnants of the synth process that are showing up in the sample. Guessing the Simon's reaction must just be due to my Simon's test getting old.

Also, this submission has made me realize something potentially significant.

They say that I sent 20 mg, but I weighed this before I sent it and my scale said it was about 60 mg.

Could my issue be that I have a bad scale? Seriously. If my scale is weighing out mg significantly "off," then that would explain A LOT. Have we even discussed this here?

Maybe they made no attempt to scrape put the remaining 40 mg imevitably stuck to the inside of the bag?

Is so, a degree of lack of care and thorough procedure indicated there IMO.

Still, I guess it makes no difference, as long as they had enough to work with for a reliable result.

 

[foolsgold25]

I would bet my house on it being the sassafras / saffrole change, I live in Manchester & up until that point we had good e’s on tap. They literally dried up within the space of a few months, massive drought & then nothing to that level since: I go to Amsterdam regularly and it’s exactly the same problem there. All pills are now 250mg + to make up for how shit the product is. Every pill I had up until 2009 was always dose around 100-130mg- No need for weird shapes or gimmicks to sell these things. I don’t take e’s anymore but I’m waiting patiently for the return of those beautiful little fuckers. The last time I came up properly was Nintendo’s / Mario’s / UFOs in 2015 - must of got hold of a bit of safrole oil eh

Pill Reports - Ecstasy Test Results Database by Enlighten

www.pillreports.net

 

[AutoTripper]

It's possible that our genetic has changed lead to inability for MDMA to interact with its receptors , if your dad was high user of mdmd in past and developed a Mutation you will get his DNA which will make you unable to feel MDMA even if you did not took it before , MDMA is neurotoxic this encourage the body to make a Mutation that will stop MDMA effect in even in later generations.
This my opinion *-*

I would be open to such a consideration, theoretically.

However this just doesn't "sit" with me as a satisfactory explanation.

If no known or observed, reported, genuine changes had not been made to how MDMA is produced since 2005 at least, but the facts are MDMA production has changed fairly radically actually, since that time, the end of the Golden era.

 

[AutoTripper]

I would bet my house on it being the sassafras / saffrole change, I live in Manchester & up until that point we had good e’s on tap. They literally dried up within the space of a few months, massive drought & then nothing to that level since: I go to Amsterdam regularly and it’s exactly the same problem there. All pills are now 250mg + to make up for how shit the product is. Every pill I had up until 2009 was always dose around 100-130mg- No need for weird shapes or gimmicks to sell these things. I don’t take e’s anymore but I’m waiting patiently for the return of those beautiful little fuckers. The last time I came up properly was Nintendo’s / Mario’s / UFOs in 2015 - must of got hold of a bit of safrole oil eh

Pill Reports - Ecstasy Test Results Database by Enlighten

www.pillreports.net

Yes the OG white doves, Dolphins, Elephants etc of the early to mid nineties and just beyond, 120-130 mg was a pretty damn special pill and experience.

No complaints or disappointment, cries for a higher dose.

3 125 mg pills, over a night, was a real feast.

This is certainly an indicator not to be dismissed IMO.

 

[indigoaura]

I honestly have no clue. I pulled the number out of my ass. But I hang at drug-forums such as BL, D-F, reddit subs, swedish drug-forums, norwegian drug-forums, darknet-forums - I've found the same complaint on every platform.

But, like I said, I maybe totally off on this one. Me and my friends and those I've talked to. Most are not first-timers, but most are not abusive either (at least my friends, even though I've been).

It's a shame, though, if I have fucked my synapses and all that.
But hey, those times were awesome, I can still spell my own name and don't suffer any physcial or mental impairment from my MDMdays.
So, a shame, but nothing I'll mourn.

The complaints are all over the internet. You even see people commenting in threads that are unrelated to MDMA. I have seen the issue pop up on music forums etc. It is widely discussed by everyone in my social circle who tried E before and after. People who I have introduced to E in recent years shrugged their shoulders and were not motivated to try it again. People who are not in my social circle have brought the issue up to me as well.

In the original thread we had multiple people who were in the EDM scene who commented on the vast change in attendees and the change in vibe. @Biscuit and @epic11 both come to mind here.

There is a lot of gaslighting that goes on in this thread, unfortunately. The whole discussion would be healthier and more productive if we would stop trying to convince people that their observations and experiences are false.

 

[Negi]

I feel like we are just relitigating the past hundred pages of the old thread in a much more compact form, but I guess this makes it easier for new users to catch up.

It is widely discussed by everyone in my social circle who tried E before and after.

This is what I was trying to get around by focusing on new user reports. The view that MDMA is mediocre or even bad these days is heavily concentrated in longterm users (in terms of how long since their first MDMA usage) who are comparing it to experiences often years in the past. While some like those in the thread have found batches that seem to buck the trend, others haven't (or don't report it) making it hard to rule out tolerance or rose tinted glasses for many of the reports.

People who I have introduced to E in recent years shrugged their shoulders and were not motivated to try it again.

This is much more of an indicator that something is up. But it's not a common view. Most first time experience reports are glowing, with people reporting that they can't wait to try it again. And it's not like people wouldn't post underwhelming experiences, it's a meme at this point that people are constantly making "I tried cocaine and don't see the hype" posts on Reddit. You don't see that for MDMA.

In the original thread we had multiple people who were in the EDM scene who commented on the vast change in attendees and the change in vibe. @Biscuit and @epic11 both come to mind here.

I thought we had covered that in the old thread. EDM is mainstream now, the majority of attendees at a festival or large event are going to getting drunk, not taking MDMA.

source

I'm not trying to say that your experiences haven't happened, but I don't see the evidence that they have been caused by a change that has impacted the majority of the worlds MDMA supply.

 

[indigoaura]

I have never said that I thought anything has impacted the majority of the world's MDMA supply. I personally think there are "pockets" or regions that are experiencing this issue more than others. I could not begin to speak to the world's supply, as I have no experience in other regions and would not begin to make a claim about regions I am not familiar with.

The only people who are going to notice a difference in MDMA from a decade ago and MDMA today are people who were using MDMA a decade ago. A new user who only tried Meh product would not understand or know what it was supposed to be like. So, there is a bit of a logical conundrum here.

If I comment that Austin, TX used to have a better vibe in 2000, and someone else says, "Nah, Austin is great in 2020!" but that person never visited Austin till 2018, then there is no way they can comment on the issue. They don't know or understand what the vibe used to be like.

If you did a blind taste test, and you gave everyone Coke, except for a small handful of people who got Dr. Pepper, and then you switched out the Dr. Pepper for Coke, guess what? The only people asking "What happened to what I was drinking before?" are the people who tasted the Dr. Pepper. The people who had Coke the whole time would not have experienced any change.

You would have to find new users who were getting quality MDMA and then the supply changed (and we have had several people like that comment within the thread). But overall, I think new users are either connected to quality product and they don't have an issue at all, or they are connected to meh product and don't realize there is an issue because they have not tried quality product.

Most first time experience reports are glowing, with people reporting that they can't wait to try it again.

Yes, I agree. I know what first time MDMA users should be like. Any time we used to get a newbie at a party it was like a present for everyone. I was that person at the party who brought the stuffed animals, play-doh, glow sticks, Slinkys and other ridiculous stuff to show the newbies a good time. They were overjoyed, baptized, enlightened, unencumbered. It was a semi religious awakening. I have watched that transformation time and time again.

So, please, believe me when I tell you as an objective observer that something is not right. No one is awakening to anything on this subpar product. I literally had one new user say, "Eh, its ok." I watched another girl push her boyfriend away and tell him to not touch her. I never saw anything like that with new users before. Never.

Even if my brain is burned out and I will never experience MDMA again, I should still be able to watch others experience that joy for the first time. Nothing is wrong with my powers of observation.

 

[sassyfrass]

Just had some genuine crystal clear MDA
and it was like the first time on MDMA, no iris insight, Completely magic.

apparently closer to the "golden era" people were adulterating their MDMA with Sass because they knew it was more potent and easier to make.

"MDA is rarely sought after as a recreational drug compared to other drugs in the amphetamine family; however, it remains an important and widely used drug due to it being a primary metabolite,[1] the product of hepatic N-dealkylation,[2] of MDMA (ecstasy), In addition, it is common to find MDA as an adulterant of illicitly produced MDMA.[3][4]" WIkipedia MDA

and perhaps different isomers pack more of a punch


"The (S)-optical isomer of MDA is more potent than the (R)-optical isomer as a psychostimulant, possessing greater affinity for the three monoamine transporters. " WIkipedia MDA

 

[finitelifeform]

I think it's simply a changing of the guard.
You get gifted opportunities to experience, exploit, benefit from etc certain nuances in the particular moment in time. I think it's a sort of 'you have to be there to understand' thing.
What you know from your past is based on your generation, something which doesn't last despite you perhaps believing how things were for you is how it was, and always will be, for everyone else.

And with drugs, I think it's about the sub-cultures that are connected to the use of those drugs. That's where you find the time limited window into specific social and cultural paradigms that define that particular sub-culture. Of those paradigms might be social norms and values that emphasise certain shared cultural beliefs etc. When you look at the dance scene during the eighties and nineties, you can see that sub-cultures had a huge part to play in the exposure to the wider world of certain cultural beliefs and values that then rippled through society and along with those rippled provided the conduit for others to partake in similiar involvement, of which might have been the exposure to really good MDMA as a byproduct of being connected to those sub-cultures. That's why many people got wind of there being good MDMA around those times, because the influence from those sub-cultures was hard to ignore. It was effectively what the rave scene, hard dance, techno scenes etc were all about. You couldn't really put the eighties/nineties, hard dance and MDMA apart from one another. This is very much a cultural thing and along with it were the nuanced cultural values attached. And that often was having a really good time, which involved really good MDMA.

In past generations, you had more access to sub-cultures because the world was more divided, at least in the sense that localized cultural identity existed. There was a lot less pressures on local culture because the world was a lot smaller. There was more depth to local culture which allowed for sub-cultures to flourish because the overarching culture was isolated from the rest of the world, therefore more likely to be preserved. Today we have social media and the homogenization of culture until we are all effectively one big gloop, instead of pockets of islands with our own ways of life. And it's in these pockets of islands where certain nuances can be found, certain time limited windows into a particular way of life and along with it, particular perks of being there at that time. When one mainstream culture dominates all, the rest are left straggling under the pressure to conform to the overarching norms and values.

Naturally time moves on and due to rapidly changing world and the way in which we live our lives socially, what was once the norm and essential to way of life, is now secondary and obsolete and fading into history. I can definetly see that over the last few decades there has been a huge change in the quality of drugs available and I think it's heavily linked to the changing of culture and how people perceive what is important about them. It's more about quantity than quality. It's more about the superficial process of consuming them, as apposed to their usage having beneficial and meaningful purposes ie used in connection to a particular setting, for a specific purpose, with particular values and beliefs attached etc.

For good drugs to be central to peoples lives, people have to first believe that is important and secondly have been fortunate enough to have experienced both good drugs and a sense of identity to a particular set of cultural beliefs that puts the importance of this as a top priority. Today people would rather score impure, perhaps even bunk, MDMA because culturally they have no sense of direction when it comes to identifying with what they are doing, no rituals, no community, no wisdom nor advice garnered from past generations, no connection to a particular shared reality that considers this important.

 

[psy997]

It's more about the superficial process of consuming them, as apposed to their usage having beneficial and meaningful purposes ie used in connection to a particular setting, for a specific purpose, with particular values and beliefs attached etc.

For good drugs to be central to peoples lives, people have to first believe that is important and secondly have been fortunate enough to have experienced both good drugs and a sense of identity to a particular set of cultural beliefs that puts the importance of this as a top priority.

Today people would rather score impure, perhaps even bunk, MDMA because culturally they have no sense of direction when it comes to identifying with what they are doing, no rituals, no community, no wisdom nor advice garnered from past generations, no connection to a particular shared reality that considers this important.

Good points, and great post, finitelifeform. The third gets a bit assumptive, though not enough to ruin it for me. Either way, thank you for posting here and putting words to what I've felt and mulled over, but not been able to put into language, before.

 

[Negi]

I'm not sure what your conclusion is there. Are you saying that the change in perceived MDMA effects is due to different usage patterns (and set and settings?), or due to a physical aspect of the MDMA?

 

[psy997]

I'm not sure what your conclusion is there. Are you saying that the change in perceived MDMA effects is due to different usage patterns (and set and settings?), or due to a physical aspect of the MDMA?

They seem to be saying that the quality of MDMA is no longer as good. Most of the post is reasoning as to why that may be able to occur with so little fanfare, however.

 

[finitelifeform]

Good points, and great post, finitelifeform. The third gets a bit assumptive, though not enough to ruin it for me. Either way, thank you for posting here and putting words to what I've felt and mulled over, but not been able to put into language, before.

Thanks From my experience, albeit biased, more and more people settle for less when it comes to quality of drugs. And more and more people seem to be settling for untrusted sources and risks based on getting hold of what they need. The search for drugs has broadened and along with it more risks, more contact with less pure drugs, less personal connections to those involved etc. The prices are also increasing which puts pressure on both sides, especially the smaller suppliers. It's the smaller supplies who usually provide these niche pockets of people with the good stuff. When they get pushed out, when the heat gets too high, or when the social network crumbles - the whole deck of cards comes down. And I've noticed the niche cultures that once thrived now don't so much and people have become more mainstream in regards to their identities, along with that the connections people have, their localized cultures and sub-cultures and the overall environment fades away and is no longer necessary. This is represented in society as a whole when collectively people are slowly losing their own sense of localized cultural identity to the dominant homogenous mainstream culture that puts everybody in the same bracket, and therefore at the same time eradicates cultural differences, nuances and identity that once thrived in more isolated pockets of localized culture.

When theres a gap in the market, this leaves the street corner dealers and the ones who come in to capitalize on pure profit over providing a quality service to their customers. They don't care about making friends and sharing in collective shared realities, their motive is only the money. And it all makes sense because during the last decade or so there there have been many economic, social, political factors involved that has contributed to the stage being set for people taking their personal choices like drug/abuse to new places and doing things differently. A case in point is the dawn of dark net markets. When only a few decades ago (perhaps not even that) you could get everything you needed based on the network you had around you and the resources available at that time, today people rely more and more on significantly more detachment from the whole process to the degree that people are ordering drugs from several hundred, maybe even thousand, miles away. Take it back not that long ago and you could have got what you ordered off the dark net in your local area.

I'm not sure what your conclusion is there. Are you saying that the change in perceived MDMA effects is due to different usage patterns (and set and settings?), or due to a physical aspect of the MDMA?

Are you referring to my posts?
If you are I'm saying basically that the change in culture and how people live their lives has contributed to the change in the availability of MDMA. It's culture that has a signficant impact on how people live their lives and when those cultures are not as water tight and pervasive, the relationships based in those cultures diminish. Of those relationships, say if you were part of a sub-culture/group that promoted the use of good quality MDMA for connecting with others and having amazing experiences, you no longer have access to what you benefited from before as a byproduct of being involved and connected to the sub-culture and the relationships therein. If you're friends with a big group of people and they all come with their perks of knowing people, having access to certain resources, know certain stuff etc when those relationships fail, or the overarching environment fades away, so does the benefits that came with those relationships.

 

[G_Chem]

you dont need it in your library a chemist just looks at the gc/ms graphs and can tell what the compound is.

A competent chemist..

Unfortunately my trust in people’s competency is at an all time low. Also if the graphs were close enough it could be written off.

-GC

 

[G_Chem]

Are there thousands though? This was a point of contention I've brought up a few times in this thread. The majority of current experience reports don't match the effects people point to for mehDMA. This is especially true if you focus on first time reports, to rule out any possibility of tolerance.

Thing is though, MDMA used to work long past first usage. Nowadays it seems everyone looses the magic after 3 tries, which just ain’t right.

Also reddit regularly has posts with people asking why it’s changed and many posters agreeing. Definitely not 1000’s but enough.


@TripSitterNZ i respectfully disagree on many fronts.

First off our domestic production isn’t the problem and in fact when we do have domestic it’s usually the best there’s is.. It’s just rare these days, and many dealers will happily sell RC’s instead.

This argument also doesn’t work when much of the product is being tested with reagents and via lab.

Next while yes glycidate has been used since probably the early 00’s, there is most definitely variations in product via route. Many Hive chemists speak of this.

Also I will nitpick further and say not ALL product has to go through the PMK intermediate. Bromosafrole was used at least some of the time early on in the illlict MDMA trade but quickly faded out as better techniques came forward.

-GC