What is wrong with the MDMA available today?

[psy997]

Thanks for bringing the points that you are, Negi. I think we need to contend with them if we are to take ourselves seriously in our endeavor. It also cannot be argued that you have done a considerable amount of quality research here with respect to papers, too.

I think the lack of "i didn't experience therapeutic effects" posts on those subreddits is a good data point. Is it possible that Meh still has the therapeutic effects? Well, maybe. Or, maybe not, and somehow the issue is more isolate than imagined. Or, we're all experiencing loss of magic. Though, I doubt the lattee.

 

[Negi]

It's not just the therapy subreddits either. I've spent a lot of time on the main /r/MDMA subreddit, and if you look past the memes on the front page to the actual reports and content, there aren't any real signs of mehDMA (based on the signs from the table). I like to focus on first time reports, as it removes any possibility of magic loss or tolerance being an issue and like the therapeutic users they are generally taking the first MDMA they can find, so it's the stuff that is broadly available in the community or from popular DNM vendors (who are probably also supplying a good number of the community dealers in the reddit age bracket). People report the classic MDMA effects - overwhelming euphoria, melting into music, wanting to hug everyone, telling your friends you love them, talking for hours. Even when people report poor experiences, they generally don't match up with the mehDMA effects (wanting to be alone, feeling sleepy). Usually they can be tied to either untested pills (part of the US still have lots of bunk pills and meth), or people being on SSRIs and not realizing they will dull the effects of MDMA.

Again it's really the absence of reports matching mehDMA effects that I find the most noticeable. We know that people will speak up and ask questions if the experience isn't what they expect, because of all the people with meth bombs or on SSRIs.

 

[Rectify]

It weakens the effect.

 

[fasterfb]

I've spent a lot of time on the main /r/MDMA subreddit, and if you look past the memes on the front page to the actual reports and content, there aren't any real signs of mehDMA

Yes, I have noticed the same thing. Pretty much all positive reports, except for the odd case as you stated. And also 'help me' posts from those who did too much too often.

 

[ThreePointCircle]

...judging by the considerably different descriptions that people in the thread have given for the feeling of mehDMA....

What different descriptions? It's all been remarkably consistent - e.g. lack of euphoria and somewhat sedating.

 

[Simosom]

@Negi
"on the main /r/MDMA subreddit, there aren't any real signs of mehDMA (based on the signs from the table)"
This is just not true, there are many reports where first time users asking why they did not get desired effects, or how magic has being lost after only one or two usages. Most of them are not even aware of mehdma topics.

 

[Jmoda]

@Negi
"on the main /r/MDMA subreddit, there aren't any real signs of mehDMA (based on the signs from the table)"
This is just not true, there are many reports where first time users asking why they did not get desired effects, or how magic has being lost after only one or two usages. Most of them are not even aware of mehdma topics.

There is a difference between mehDMA and just complete bunk shit. Reddit has too wide a spectrum to reliably provide us with people who are clearly getting consistent "legit" shit

 

[Negi]

This is just not true, there are many reports where first time users asking why they did not get desired effects

Yes, but they aren't say that they felt sleepy and didn't want to be with anyone. I didn't say that everyone's first time was perfect, but that the negative experiences don't map onto what this thread has laid out as the main symptoms of mehDMA. Also if you go into the threads and ask - was the MDMA tested - What dose did you take - Are you on any medications you can find out the cause of nearly all of those negative experiences.

 

[Simosom]

For most users here mehDMA is not full garbage, it is still better than methylone or any other rc shit, even if it lacking any aspects of magic.
I can see how first time users can be happy whith this product. In combination with super set and setting it can provide amazing time, but nowhere close to life changing experience, or magic we are all looking for.

 

[Negi]

So is mehDMA literally now just "exactly like regular MDMA, except you've lost the magic"? One of the reasons I followed this thread and dove into the science was because initially people talked about it as a distinct experience, something that didn't match up with the symptoms of MDMA overuse. I asked about set and setting and was told that you could be standing in front of your favorite band in a cheering crowd and want to be at home with a blanket.

This really goes back to how I think different people is this thread have different causes for their mehDMA experiences.

 

[F.U.B.A.R.]

So is mehDMA literally now just "MDMA, except you've lost the magic"? One of the reasons I followed this thread and dove into the science was because initially people talked about it as a distinct experience, something that didn't match up with the symptoms of MDMA overuse. I asked about set and setting and was told that you could be standing in front of your favorite band in a cheering crowd and want to be at home with a blanket.

This really goes back to how I think different people is this thread have different causes for their mehDMA experiences.

Most of the time I find MehDMA very enjoyable - just not as enjoyable as it can be. The come up is often intense, but gets nowhere. Once the come up is over, that's it. No plateau. Just up, then over. Total duration 1.5 - 3 hours - even with redoses. A higher initial dose doesn't improve the experience, just makes the come up more intense. No desire to move about or interact, just to wallow in the physical sensations until I fall asleep. It is like a different drug entirely.

 

[Simosom]

It is distinct experience, not always bad. There had been times during the rolls when i was telling myself it will be last time taking it.
Distinct to the level that i can recognize it among different batches with sedative, energy, empathy variations.
I am using it only because i like techno scene and going to the parties, still hoping that will pop up some magic surprise on the way.

 

[Simosom]

@F.U.B.A.R.
Funny thing is how effects of mehDMA are not that subjective as loss of magic or different set and setting should be.

 

[Negi]

Is there anyone here who had once lost "the magic" due to MDMA abuse (and recovered it later obviously) that can explain what that felt like to them and compare it to mehDMA? I also remember someone farther back in the thread who compared mehDMA to the experience of trying to roll for the third or fourth day in a row, anyone remember that or find the comparison apt?

 

[G_Chem]

That's one of the reasons I'm skeptical. I'm involved with the /r/MDMAtherapy subreddit, which has over 9000 users now. The vast majority of the users posting experiences are using underground therapists or friends, so they aren't getting the MAPS produced GMP MDMA. Now one could certainly argue that some of the therapists would have access to high quality supplies of MDMA, but people who are using street sourced product with a friend sitting for them are having very therapeutic and healing experiences. There are almost no posts where people say "I tried it and didn't get any therapeutic effects". The few that have occurred can usually be tied to uncertain dosages (we always try and discourage people from using pills for this reason) and on one occasion someone took it solo and became distracted by some of the effects (they got very horny so it didn't sound like mehDMA).

There's another subreddit /r/MDMASolo, that was created after it's founder had his ideas rejected by the main MDMAtherapy subreddit (he feels that ADHD and schizophrenia can be cured using MDMA therapy). Their focus is on the solo MDMA experience, so no therapist supplied MDMA involved. A glance at the posts there shows again that the only real "It didn't work" post has someone taking pills of an unknown dosage.

I think a key thing to note is that it seems like the majority of the therapeutic users are MDMA naive, they've never taken it before and have only sought it out to trying and cure their traumas. This means they usually don't have a well known source and have to obtain it from friends of friends, or ordering it from a DNM. The fact that there aren't a number of reported mehDMA experiences despite many people fumbling around and taking the fist MDMA they can get their hands on is pretty telling to me.

I’m also involved in that community and we perceive it in two very different ways as we’ve already discussed.

And I do indeed get nearly identical, if not better, effects nowadays similar to 15+yrs ago.

Finally, G6 is garbage... This I know for a fact. The taste of those pills were different than any MDMA product I’ve ever had, and all 3 individuals who tried it reported feeling a blunting of their current experience once eating those G6 boosters.

Back with more later.

-GC

 

[G_Chem]

Is there anyone here who had once lost "the magic" due to MDMA abuse (and recovered it later obviously) that can explain what that felt like to them and compare it to mehDMA? I also remember someone farther back in the thread who compared mehDMA to the experience of trying to roll for the third or fourth day in a row, anyone remember that or find the comparison apt?

I just made that comparison awhile ago, you gotta read better my man. I just talked with my brother more this weekend as he’s definitely lost the magic.

As he puts it, you stop getting that “love the world” feeling and instead it’s more of a pleasure/euphoria drug. He’s still stimulated, still euphoric, nothing like described here.

We just rolled this weekend on 90mg + 40mg an hour later. Took it at 1:00pm and felt down around 7pm, surprised too by how strong it was at this lower than normal dose. A batch I’m familiar with...

He didn’t get sleepy, or introverted, or any of that shit.

-GC

 

[Negi]

I’m also involved in that community and we perceive it in two very different ways as we’ve already discussed.

The specific post you quoted is discussing the MDMA therapy based Reddit communities, not the main MDMA one. Do you believe that mehDMA would have the same therapeutic effects as magic MDMA?

He didn’t get sleepy, or introverted, or any of that shit.

People have been repeatedly telling me that mehDMA doesn't need to match those symptoms at all.

How about you, can mehDMA be a very enjoyable drug for you? Can the right set and setting make it feel amazing?

 

[indigoaura]

@Negi

I am happy to answer any question you have about my personal experience with MehDMA. This is a long thread, and a lot of the comments get lost in it. Some of the things you are saying, however, are not my impression from having been an active participant in this thread for years now.

I personally feel that the observations of MehDMA have been remarkably consistent from person to person. There are small deviations, yes, but overall, people report the same things. That was why I tried to compile it all into a chart that would represent the majority of statements in this thread.

It can be hard to put the effects of drugs into words. I'm not Hunter S. Thompson, although I might have similar lofty aspirations.

One thing to keep in mind about Reddit or any other similar community is that most people are not testing their pills/crystals. I think that for many people, when they buy some stuff and it is not that great, they chalk it up to just being a bad batch and they move on. They assume it is something other than MDMA. They don't post about it, because it wasn't that impressive to begin with. The harm reduction community is a little bit different, because the harm reduction community is looking to test and know what things are in a more specific way. Even among the crew I used to hang with, people rarely wanted to test pills. When shit didn't hit right, "Oh well, that is just part of the deal when you are buying drugs." Not everyone is an analytical thinker. Not everyone wants to know "why" about everything.

I asked about set and setting and was told that you could be standing in front of your favorite band in a cheering crowd and want to be at home with a blanket.

That was my story. This has happened to me more than once. On one occasion, I wanted to fight someone. Rather than feeling any camaraderie or love for the other people in the audience, I legit wanted to punch someone in the face.

It is distinct experience, not always bad. There had been times during the rolls when i was telling myself it will be last time taking it.

I totally agree with this @Simosom.

Do you believe that mehDMA would have the same therapeutic effects as magic MDMA?

I think it would be different, but I think there is some deep introspection potential there. It does not create that safe "everything is good" space, but it does cause you to look inward.

People have been repeatedly telling me that mehDMA doesn't need to match those symptoms at all.

Who is telling you that? Those are the most commonly stated characteristics I have seen noted in this thread.

As I said before, I am open to other explanations. However, if the problem was with me, then I would expect that at some point I would have given this MehDMA to someone and they would have blown up with a full on, euphoric, MDMA joyride. Someone, at some point, would have had a typically magical experience from the stuff. ESPECIALLY one of the drug-naive people that I have shared it with. How likely is it that all of these people all felt it was sub-par if the problem is with the people?

 

[Negi]

I think that for many people, when they buy some stuff and it is not that great, they chalk it up to just being a bad batch and they move on. They assume it is something other than MDMA. They don't post about it, because it wasn't that impressive to begin with.

For the first time someone takes MDMA? Remember with a first MDMA experience there isn't anything to compare it against. Multiple people in this thread, you included have told me that younger users must simply be accepting mehDMA as the real experience. Why wouldn't they post a trip report about it? Even if they though it was a poor experience they would likely post about it. There's a meme on the main Reddit drugs subreddit that every day or so someone makes a post about how they just tried cocaine and were very underwhelmed, and that it's a shitty expensive drug. Nobody is doing that for MDMA.

I personally feel that the observations of MehDMA have been remarkably consistent from person to person.

This is what I am talking about: https://www.bluelight.org/xf/thread...available-today.791073/page-244#post-14845044
I asked if people get any euphoria from mehDMA, and I get several responses that there is none. To quote:

None for me. Every time I end up feeling worse than before I took it.

None. I used to describe the euphoria of magic as being so intense it was like being crushed and exploded all at the same time, but pleasurable. Mehdma and mehda don't have any. Sometimes you get a feeling like it's about to happen, but it never does. That's what I miss the most.

meh feels like it's about to begin the comeup and then "poof" fades away. Real MDMA first gives you energy then it dissapears for a good 10min and THEN BAM, you get lightheaded and your whole body starts rushing you feel so fucking alive. omg i wanna roll after this shit finally fucking ends.

I would be lying if I said I did not get something out of the MehDMA experience, even if it is just a slightly altered reality for a few hours. It really does remind me of a low dose of xanax. I do feel relaxed when I take it, but it is not euphoric at all.

Everyone damned it with the faintest praise. Yet now people are saying things like

In combination with super set and setting it can provide amazing time

When I went back to the discussion about methylone vs mehDMA

Whaaaaaaat, c'mon, I agree that methylone isn't a good comparison, but do you really feel that MehDMA is worse than Methylone? To me there is hardly any comparison at all and you'd know the second you took methylone that what you had is not MDMA even if you're a complete noob to such drugs. MehDMA is similar enough that, well, if it was such an obvious difference to everyone there'd be a lot more noise around this. The similarities between the crappy MDMA and the magic stuff are quite close

I would say there is a fairly wide gap between feeling relaxed and having an amazing time (especially if set and setting has no effect on it), and most of the chart you created is a large list of the effects of magic MDMA that meh lacks, based on that the similarities should not be quite close. To one user it's so close in experience that it's easy to see that some people wouldn't notice the difference, and yet to someone else

It is like a different drug entirely.

Do all of these read like they are describing the same mehDMA to you?

 

[draculic acid69]

What Is Wrong With The MDMA Available Today?

It is generated largely from PMK-glycidate, which has a piperonylic oxygen bound to itself. This is a form of oxidation or, put simply, burning. This hypothesis is totally testable via NMR spectroscopy. Have at it, if you wish. Start with eugenol instead.

Piperonylic oxygen bound to itself, burning,start from eugenol are all just terms u read and put into a sentence that doesn't make sense or help or state anything accurate.the only thing u got right is most mdma is being made from pmk glycidate.