What is wrong with the MDMA available today?

[Kaden_Nite]

@Kaden_Nite I genuinely do not understand why you keep coming back to this thread, as you clearly do not agree with the premise

No, you clearly don't understand - believing that people shouldn't comment if they disagree with you is narcissistic and immature.

Bluelight has always been a place for dispelling unproven drug myths, it's sad to see people using this site to spread false rumours about drugs and even sadder seeing newcomers buying into it.

Feel free to share your experiences Indigo, but you are completely out of your depths discussing chemistry and that is very apparent when you have to ask if al/hg is the synth that uses mercury, or ask what a regioisomer is after emailing a testing facility and telling them that's what they need to look for..

It's strange that you have no problem sending your stuff to be tested by them when you're certain that they will tell you something that fits with your pre-determined conclusions, but then question their abilities and motivations when they tell you that it's MDMA.

Psy997 had the audacity to call a trained chemist 'ignorant' for not buying into your 'mehDMA' theory.. meanwhile, he hadn't even so much as read the Wikipedia article on GC/MS (after three years of saying that it must be a flawed method of analysis).

What is your objective? What are you trying to accomplish?

I'm wondering the same thing about you. You seem more intent on getting others to believe that there is a microscopic flaw lurking in (and ruining) the world's supply of MDMA than you are in actually getting an answer as to whether or not that's true.

Yes, there are a vast range of impurities in street drugs. No, your reaction isn't caused by them. You need to stop taking MDMA.

Anyone getting negative effects from any drug: stop buying it, stop taking it. This mehDMA bullshit is sending a message to people that if they react negatively to a drug, (even if it's happening repeatedly, from different batches, that have been lab tested), the reason for their reaction must be that they aren't getting the magic stuff.

No. That is idiotic.

So much of what you claim in your brief post is incorrect.

No, not wrong. Just beyond your capacity to understand. Look up the definition of chemical compound. MehDMA is not a chemical compound. It is a made-up term to describe an experience. You have tried unsuccessfully to pin it down to some invisible chemical, and you can't. You should be happy that you have an answer, not disappointed because it's not the answer you want.

There IS a shared consensus on effects,

Clearly, there isn't. Effects range from:
-hiding under a blanket all night
-fun to take at concerts
-makes listening to music undesirable
-inactive at 400 milligrams
-makes you feel sick for a week after
-totally unpleasant
-almost as good as real MDMA

Yeah, very consistent

 

[Hilopsilo]

Christ more nearly 100 pages since covid lol, anyone up to date enough to give me a run down of anything useful or interesting thats come up? or has it been purely unlimited banter

 

[Simosom]

@Negi
Why did you cut my post and took it to a different context?

 

[Simosom]

Everything has been discussed number of times, lets move on.
We are getting in the loop, again.

 

[Negi]

Christ more nearly 100 pages since covid lol, anyone up to date enough to give me a run down of anything useful or interesting thats come up? or has it been purely unlimited banter

Here's a few of what I consider to be the most recent highlights:

A mysterious new impurity was detected by South Korean researchers - the thread spent a few pages investigating

How long does a roll actually last? - The thread spent a few pages arguing

The current head of Dancesafe talks about the theory on a podcast - The thread has opinions

I dig up some information about impurities in different synthesis methods - Discussion ensues

The past 3-4 pages have been discussing the apparent lack of mehDMA experience reports in the wider MDMA using internet (mainly Reddit) and trying to reconcile the different descriptions people have of it.

Why did you cut my post and took it to a different context?

Were you not saying that mehDMA can be an amazing experience at times? Here's the full quote:

For most users here mehDMA is not full garbage, it is still better than methylone or any other rc shit, even if it lacking any aspects of magic.
I can see how first time users can be happy whith this product. In combination with super set and setting it can provide amazing time, but nowhere close to life changing experience, or magic we are all looking for.

I wasn't trying to cut it to make it sound like you thought it was just like magic MDMA or anything, but just to show that it didn't match up with people who get zero euphoria from it and find that it makes every experience worse.

 

[Hilopsilo]

Does the discussion of the topic match the perceived scale of the problem though? Based on the information in this thread, it would appear that the majority of the MDMA in the world is meh. I say that based on the fact that it seems that everyone who has noticed the "mehDMA" situation finds that nearly all the MDMA available to them is meh. Is there even anyone in the thread who has been able to find a solid consistent source of "magic" MDMA after encountering meh? People mentioning finding a lucky batch here or there, but I don't think anyone has said "yeah the MDMA here is great again, weird that was".

Yes, I have. But I am in no way outright endorsing or agreeing with whatever's been said since I last posted here, as it seems we can hardly come to consensus about what defines the MehDMA. But I now have a solid consistent source of "magic" MDMA, it reliably produces the effects I've known and loved for 10 years now. With the amount of different batches that come and go through my source, while they all test more or less the same, FWIW the effects do seem to vary dose for dose. Those handling it seem to be very aware of the differences in quality, and then kinda becomes a bit more plausible not all good-testing MDMA is created equal. The people I know actively seek user feedback, and while I they haven't documented this extensively, there is most certainly batches that get a lot better feedback than others (the crappy stuff we had, had nearly 30 people bummed out!).

I've written up the whole thing somewhere in this thread, I can find it if you're interested. Long story short though, a large group of people took a batch of what tested in FTIR and NMR to be good perfectly good MDMA, but every single person had a lackluster experience. 48 hours later, same doses were taken of a different batch and it was like a whole different experience. The only clue here is the crappy stuff had some small portion MDP2P, but not enough to impact the dose by weight. Good stuff was a clear, scentless crystal, the crappy stuff was brown, sandy and had a strong sassy stinky aroma. Not that I haven't had good MDMA that checks out like the latter though.

It blew my mind so much that I started researching it a good bit, still curious but I don't see this going anywhere and I have what I need. All I know for sure is, there is DEFINITELY MDMA out there that tests perfectly fine (through the tests we have access to), but is kinda shitty. Why? I really don't know, but I have a really hard time chalking up all the differences to set & setting with this one. I have a sample of the crappy stuff somewhere that I'd like to look into further, but it is unavailable to me until next summer most likely.

EDIT: I think you may already know most of that actually, thanks for the summary above!!!!

Most of the time I find MehDMA very enjoyable - just not as enjoyable as it can be. The come up is often intense, but gets nowhere. Once the come up is over, that's it. No plateau. Just up, then over. Total duration 1.5 - 3 hours - even with redoses. A higher initial dose doesn't improve the experience, just makes the come up more intense. No desire to move about or interact, just to wallow in the physical sensations until I fall asleep. It is like a different drug entirely.

This is the most concise explanation of it from my perspective. You can get into the nitty gritty, like IME the duration isn't much different and I can't speak on redosing, but its like a dud firework. This is the MehDMA I know, and most people I've talked to IRL seem to agree.

Post with a picture of the stuff I found now that is absolutely brilliant: https://www.bluelight.org/xf/thread...the-mdma-available-today.791073/post-14696386
Yes, looks don't mean anything definitive, but when it looks like that AND tests as nearly perfect purity MDMA, I think its the best bet and worth searching or paying more for. I'd urge anyone in the market for MDMA to seek out tested product that resembles this, it's all I can do to help you get the goods! There isn't a ton of MDMA on the market that appears that way, window-shopping DNM's less than 1/50 listings would the photos resemble a clear and colorless crystal. It is also completely scentless like the other times I've had stuff that fits the profile.

Acetone washing seems like a worthwhile extra step/precaution to take if your MDMA is anything but white/clear. I think receiving product that is colorless/clear and scentless shows some level of craftmanship/care, and it shows laziness if this was skipped and immediately calls into question the quality of what is at the end of the day, STREET drugs. I can guarantee the MDMA that MAPS is using isn't some stinky sand. Eliminate those variables..

 

[majk13]

of course there is mehmdma and magic mdma, as with all other substances in this world, they are good and of inferior quality. I suggest you ignore the skeptics. Recently I tried ghb and it gives me what mehmdma doesn't: empathy, happiness and a raised libido.

 

[F.U.B.A.R.]

its like a dud firework.

Fuck yeh! That nails it. All fizz and no bang...

 

[Simosom]

@Kaden_Nite
I can understand scientific fustration when therory is not aligned in practice. But doctors always must listen their patients.
For most people including me, it is hard to exactly describe all negative and positive effects.
Indigo has summarized it all in one place, why are you trying to take it out of the context and take only what is good for you.
After 300 pages, most of us agreed that there is something wrong, we are here to try to find out what. Whenever someone like Negi pop in and try to question all aspects we have already discussed, you follow.
We can close this thread right now, forget about it and agree that we are all sentimental fools craving for past life.

 

[psy997]

Psy997 had the audacity to call a trained chemist 'ignorant' for not buying into your 'mehDMA' theory.. meanwhile, he hadn't even so much as read the Wikipedia article on GC/MS (after three years of saying that it must be a flawed method of analysis).

I said he was ignorant of the MehDMA experience, Kaden, and wished that he would remain so - a caring gesture, no?

The remark had nothing to do with chemistry, nor knowledge of testing methods, despite that being the current discussion that was happening. Regarding my own knowledge, or lack thereof, of testing methods, I did a relatively depthful reading on the matter either just before or just after that post. Which, if you are willing to not nitpick so much, does suggest it is possible we're missing contaminants with current testing methods.

I've stood up for your dissonance here when it's seemed appropriate, and called you out when it was not. Let's not attack one another.

You seem more intent on getting others to believe that there is a microscopic flaw lurking in (and ruining) the world's supply of MDMA than you are in actually getting an answer as to whether or not that's true.

We talked about this earlier in the thread. This is exactly what we're doing with our theorizing. If we don't have proposed hypotheses of mechanisms for MehDMA that we can test, however unlikely, then how do you suggest we get an answer as to whether Meh is a real phenomena, or not?

It's not as simple as

Yes, there are a vast range of impurities in street drugs. No, your reaction isn't caused by them. You need to stop taking MDMA.

That's just as much an unfounded hypothesis as you claim ours to be.

My suggestion is, let what you see as psuedo-science here go, and instead focus on the myriad of good points you have, including


1.

This mehDMA bullshit is sending a message to people that if they react negatively to a drug, (even if it's happening repeatedly, from different batches, that have been lab tested), the reason for their reaction must be that they aren't getting the magic stuff.

This is a good point. We should be aware of the effect we may be having on users in propagating an idea that if a negative experience occurs, it's not them to blame. I believe that's true for Meh, as I do think Meh is a real phenomenon, and we could be causing damage in addition to help with spreading our ideas without the proper caveats.


2.

Yeah, very consistent

The issues that are seen here in the inconsistency of described effects. I don't have a major issue with the inconsistencies, as I've had Meh batches ranging from pleasurable to downright awful - and it's my fault that I've not made that clear every time I've stated here that Meh is not pleasureful whatsoever - but we do need to be clear when mentioning effects profiles or making summary posts that there is a large range of possible effects - again, if our hypothesis is true - which, again, I don't believe you have the evidence to definitively prove is not true.

 

[Negi]

as I've had Meh batches ranging from pleasurable to downright awful

Why do you consider all of those to be meh, if there is such a vast difference in the effects you get from them?

A similar question here:

Distinct to the level that i can recognize it among different batches with sedative, energy, empathy variations.

If you take MDMA that gives you energy or empathy, why are you calling it meh?

Since several users have now mentioned that they continue to take MDMA that they consider to be meh, how widespread is that? I notice others seem to be fairly frequently trying new batches in the hope of finding one that is magic. Is there anyone in the thread who has stepped back and taken a longer break (such as a year or more) from MDMA in response to meh experiences?

 

[tired of crap]

@Negi

Is there anyone in the thread who has stepped back and taken a longer break (such as a year or more) from MDMA in response to meh experiences?

I have had the same batch for many years now. When I first got it I had recently been using too frequently at silly doses. Mind you it was nothing compared to my younger days.

Anyways, I didn’t have much of a test kit left at the time (it was many years old and no simons or robadope left ie no way to distinguish mdma va mda). But marquis was solid and trusted friends said it was good so I jumped at the chance to try it. After a few years I bought a fresh kit And all signs (reagents) point to mdma

My first attempt left me wondering if it was mda though. I was rather lethargic and kind of withdrawn - definitely not the pro social energetic rolls from my rave days. And while I felt euphoric it wasn’t an I love everyone just this feels good. And the duration seemed shorter than I recall

Now I didn’t take a break for over a year but cut back seriously in the intervening years - maybe 3/4 rolls a year. As I get older this decreased more and more and now, >5 years since I first came across this batch, I’m about 1/2 times per year.

Recently I took this same batch one year after my last roll. I’d say there were more positive effects on half the dose (120+40 mg vs 200+100) now vs 5 years ago. But this stuff stil doesn’t produce that loved up pro social effects from many moons ago. And my pupils aren’t so dilated that you c an hardly see any iris.

I recognize this is by no means conclusive because 1 it’s not lab tested and 2 years of misuse during my youth... but by decreasing my use some positive aspects are returning. Though I still think something is not quite right with this batch. It’s not magic but maybe that’s just me

 

[Negi]

When I first got it I had recently been using too frequently at silly doses

Had you noticed a loss of effectiveness from that usage? Were the higher doses a result of tolerance?

 

[tired of crap]

Had you noticed a loss of effectiveness from that usage? Were the higher doses a result of tolerance?

Oh ya, the effectiveness had been steadily decreasing since my youth. As a result my doses continued to increase- exactly the dose would depend on the batch.

As noted I’d typically dose 200+ redoses with this batch, in those days. Though it was higher than in my youth, it was on par with recent batches of the time albeit with more positive effects. (As much as I abused m I knew doing so could result in damage so I tried not to be too ridiculous with my doses/frequency at that time but in my younger years I was reckless with both - now I’m at a place where I’m happy with my usage)

 

[indigoaura]

@Kaden_Nite

“No, you clearly don't understand - believing that people shouldn't comment if they disagree with you is narcissistic and immature.”

Discourse has always been welcome in this thread. Opposing viewpoints are welcome. It is just that some people come to the thread in a relatively courteous way and contribute and bring new research to the table, like @Negi. Other people enter the discussion with the grace of a slammed door at a dinner party.

"Bluelight has always been a place for dispelling unproven drug myths, it's sad to see people using this site to spread false rumours about drugs and even sadder seeing newcomers buying into it.”

I have always appreciated Bluelight’s efforts at harm reduction. I suppose we disagree here. I feel that identifying the central problem posted in this thread IS harm reduction.

Feel free to share your experiences Indigo, but you are completely out of your depths discussing chemistry and that is very apparent when you have to ask if al/hg is the synth that uses mercury, or ask what a regioisomer is after emailing a testing facility and telling them that's what they need to look for

I have never claimed to have any knowledge of chemistry, and I have been very open about that in this thread. Not having specific knowledge of chemistry does not mean I am incapable of analysis and inquiry.

It's strange that you have no problem sending your stuff to be tested by them when you're certain that they will tell you something that fits with your pre-determined conclusions, but then question their abilities and motivations when they tell you that it's MDMA

Strange that you are not interested in the published research articles that established that not all contaminants show up on GCMS testing.

Psy997 had the audacity to call a trained chemist 'ignorant' for not buying into your 'mehDMA' theory.. meanwhile, he hadn't even so much as read the Wikipedia article on GC/MS (after three years of saying that it must be a flawed method of analysis).

You think Wikipedia is the right source to go to for accurate information?

“indigoaura said:

What is your objective? What are you trying to accomplish?”

You still have not answered.

I'm wondering the same thing about you. You seem more intent on getting others to believe that there is a microscopic flaw lurking in (and ruining) the world's supply of MDMA than you are in actually getting an answer as to whether or not that's true.

You do realize, right, that this is a thread that is literally about the possibility that something is wrong with MDMA? I did not start the thread. It existed years before I jumped into it. In other threads I have gone down the path of lost magic and looked for possible solutions such as NAC or BPC-157. I have posted about possible physiological issues. I have tried to approach my problem as though it could be product or person. But, this thread is not about that and I post here about the topic of this thread.

Yes, there are a vast range of impurities in street drugs. No, your reaction isn't caused by them. You need to stop taking MDMA.

That’s just, like, your opinion man.

“Anyone getting negative effects from any drug: stop buying it, stop taking it. This mehDMA bullshit is sending a message to people that if they react negatively to a drug, (even if it's happening repeatedly, from different batches, that have been lab tested), the reason for their reaction must be that they aren't getting the magic stuff.”

This is a valid concern. However, the thread also pushes for extreme testing of products, encourages multi-reagent and lab analysis, encourages reasonable dosages, and re-directs people who are talking about consuming untested product.

“indigoaura said:

So much of what you claim in your brief post is incorrect.

No, not wrong. Just beyond your capacity to understand. Look up the definition of chemical compound. MehDMA is not a chemical compound. It is a made-up term to describe an experience. You have tried unsuccessfully to pin it down to some invisible chemical, and you can't. You should be happy that you have an answer, not disappointed because it's not the answer you want.”

Never said MehDMA is a chemical compound. It is a funny term to make the discussion easier. When did anyone say that?

When an answer is proposed that actually makes sense in combination with all of the reports here, I would be glad to hear it. No, it does not make sense for groups of people to spontaneously lose the magic when they get a new supply of MDMA, or for a bunch of MDMA naïve users to be incapable of rolling, or for a group of people to take one product and not roll and then take a different product 48 hrs later and roll just fine EVEN THOUGH THEY BOTH TEST AS MDMA.

“indigoaura said:

There IS a shared consensus on effects,

Clearly, there isn't. Effects range from:

-hiding under a blanket all night

-fun to take at concerts

-makes listening to music undesirable

-inactive at 400 milligrams

-makes you feel sick for a week after

-totally unpleasant

-almost as good as real MDMA”

Your cherry-picked list here comes from many different people/circumstances. Just like all MDMA experiences can have variation, there is going to be some variation in these experiences as well. There are going to be outliers to the data set. But there are clear patterns that have emerged and frequently mentioned issues that come up repeatedly.

I genuinely do not understand your mindset on this. From reading your recent post, it seems that you believe we pose a grave risk to harm reduction by discussing this issue here. I don’t agree with that, and I think it is stretching.

You called me immature and narcissistic, but that comment could easily be flipped back on you. It is not that I think people who disagree should not comment, or that the thread does not need discourse. If you want to contribute, then contribute. But you just come in and state an opinion and tell everyone they are wrong all the time.

In New Orleans, Louisiana if you go for Mardi Gras or whatever, there are always these guys that stand in the middle of Bourbon street. They come from some religious organization, and they hold up their “God Hates Fags” and “You’re going to hell” signs and cause traffic problems and try to ruin everyone’s good time. I never understand why they are there either, as they clearly don’t want to enjoy New Orleans.

Maybe the issue here is as simple as your tone not coming across how you intend it, I don’t know. But you have singled me out for personal attacks in this thread more than once, and I am not going to be bullied or gaslit.

This thread is driven by anecdotal reports, published research, and testing data. It encourages greater awareness of what drugs you are consuming and pushes to determine why unknown variations occur. To me, it epitomizes the heart of harm reduction, and it is unfortunate you don't see it that way.

 

[indigoaura]

Why do you consider all of those to be meh, if there is such a vast difference in the effects you get from them?

A similar question here:

If you take MDMA that gives you energy or empathy, why are you calling it meh?

Since several users have now mentioned that they continue to take MDMA that they consider to be meh, how widespread is that? I notice others seem to be fairly frequently trying new batches in the hope of finding one that is magic. Is there anyone in the thread who has stepped back and taken a longer break (such as a year or more) from MDMA in response to meh experiences?

Personally, I have taken breaks of 8 months, but not 1 year. My partner took a break of over 5 years. His one roll after the 5 year break was very "meh." He was the one that told me, "Why the fuck do you keep taking this shit? This is NOT MDMA." I had mostly assumed it was just loss of magic up to that point.

 

[psy997]

Why do you consider all of those to be meh, if there is such a vast difference in the effects you get from them?

Mainly because each batch is noticeably different than what I know MDMA to be.

For instance, the first time I noticed something was up, the high was mostly the same - albeit with a bit less empathy than usual, but on par for euphoria, tactile enhancement, and stimulation - but I, and the other four that took it, all abruptly came down at the three hour point post-dosing. As I've said here before, I am strongly affected by amphetamines, and MDMA lasts a while for me. It was very weird, and I immediately texted my dealer - without having ever heard of MehDMA at this point - that something was up, it shouldn't comedown like this, and he shrugged it off.

The next few times I had Meh I didn't really think too much about it because even though the empathy was barely there and the euphoria pretty low, the duration was pretty much par for MDMA, and I was easily able to explain the discrepancies in effects as psychologically originated.

Finally, I started to get stuff that had almost no energy, no real euphoria unless you tried to force it, and almost no empathy. From this point on (almost three years ago), I've only had good MDMA once or twice. This is the stuff that I absolutely hate and will never willingly take again. I would take the first batch I mentioned again, and probably even the stuff I mentioned in the second paragraph, but this stuff that I've been getting since, nope.

Is there anyone in the thread who has stepped back and taken a longer break (such as a year or more) from MDMA in response to meh experiences?

I've had one year long break since getting the really bad Meh for the first time, and then 3-4 nine month long breaks interspersed in the time since I first got Meh.

The most I've rolled in a year is 6 times, and I've used MDMA no more than 30 times.

 

[Negi]

For instance, the first time I noticed something was up, the high was mostly the same - albeit with a bit less empathy than usual, but on par for euphoria, tactile enhancement, and stimulation - but I, and the other four that took it, all abruptly came down at the three hour point post-dosing. As I've said here before, I am strongly affected by amphetamines, and MDMA lasts a while for me. It was very weird, and I immediately texted my dealer - without having ever heard of MehDMA at this point - that something was up, it shouldn't comedown like this, and he shrugged it off.

The next few times I had Meh I didn't really think too much about it because even though the empathy was barely there and the euphoria pretty low, the duration was pretty much par for MDMA, and I was easily able to explain the discrepancies in effects as psychologically originated.

So you had an experience that was more or less just like regular MDMA (with good euphoria), except for a short duration, then some experiences where the empathy and euphoria were mostly gone (but they had the usual MDMA duration) and you think these must both be the result of the same issue?

Edit:
So the timeline was still getting most MDMA effects (but short) -> significantly reduced effects (but regular duration) -> Almost no effects (what was the duration here?)

I've had one year long break since getting the really bad Meh for the first time, and then 3-4 nine month long breaks interspersed in the time since I first got Meh.

Where did the magic experiences fit in in terms of the breaks?

 

[indigoaura]

...you think these must both be the result of the same issue?

I know this isn't really directed at me, but I no longer really think it is one issue. As G_Chem has said recently, I think it is more likely a combination of various factors. If it is impurities, prob varying amounts of multiple impurities.

 

[Negi]

Personally, I have taken breaks of 8 months, but not 1 year. My partner took a break of over 5 years. His one roll after the 5 year break was very "meh." He was the one that told me, "Why the fuck do you keep taking this shit? This is NOT MDMA." I had mostly assumed it was just loss of magic up to that point.

Has your partner experienced magic MDMA since then?