What is wrong with the MDMA available today?

[draculic acid69]

Does the discussion of the topic match the perceived scale of the problem though? Based on the information in this thread, it would appear that the majority of the MDMA in the world is meh. I say that based on the fact that it seems that everyone who has noticed the "mehDMA" situation finds that nearly all the MDMA available to them is meh. Is there even anyone in the thread who has been able to find a solid consistent source of "magic" MDMA after encountering meh? People mentioning finding a lucky batch here or there, but I don't think anyone has said "yeah the MDMA here is great again, weird that was".

It's obviously a very large scale world wide problem so it's not just one shitty cook.if it was one shitty cook it would be a Heisenberg size operation of 100+kilos a wk.

 

[draculic acid69]

What I don't get is why someone who makes meh can want to intentionally keep putting shitty stuff out there especially if they know it's meh bcoz theyve had magic before.i don't get how someone can keep buying hundreds of kilos knowing it's meh either

 

[Kaden_Nite]

Because mehDMA is not a chemical, it's just an expression that a few people here use to sum up the effect that they get when they take MDMA.

Every batch of purported MehDMA has tested completely differently and there is no consensus on it's effect.

The only constant is that people who get certain unpleasant side effects from MDMA, and then blame the MDMA, keep taking MDMA, keep getting those unpleasant side effects, and keep blaming the MDMA.

 

[v5zS56tvk]

Put me in the camp of a user who only introduced himself to MDMA later in life (older millennial) and was never part of the club/rave scenes, who probably has never had a legitimate MDMA experience like the ones you folks speak of. I'd say my first experience was great, but using the same product a second time months later produced a clearly meh experience. Only using recommended amounts of 1.5mg/kg bodyweight, never multiple days in a row, never less than 2-3months apart, about 11 experiences so far since I began. Fingers crossed that I'll come across a legitimate source at some point. All I know is that the DN seems to be flooded with basically only cheap meh product and very high mg dosage pills.

 

[DopeM]

Why not grab a high mg pill and split it?

Also, set & setting still play a role here. What are you doing when you are taking it?

 

[indigoaura]

@Kaden_Nite night I genuinely do not understand why you keep coming back to this thread, as you clearly do not agree with the premise or have any respect for the people here, our opinions, or the work that we have done. What is your objective? What are you trying to accomplish? I truly do not understand. I am not trying to be rude, but if there was another thread on BL where a bunch of people were talking about something I did not buy into, I would not keep returning to the thread. So much of what you claim in your brief post is incorrect. Most of the batches I have talked about here have been cross-checked by other people, and I am not just sharing my personal reactions. I have also been very open in this thread and other BL threads about exploring the possibility that the issue is specifically ME, but my observations of products are continuously backed up by others. There have been DW batches tested by multiple people in this thread, or did you miss that part? Other people who post here also have shared multi-user reports. There IS a shared consensus on effects, which has been summarized endlessly and which you would know if you approached any of this with an open mind rather than constantly just seeking to shut everything down for reasons unbeknownst to the rest of us.

@Negi I truly think it is regional and social. If we had some kind of heat map and were able to track where people were, what they . , and the ratio of good to meh experiences, I think patterns would emerge.

For instance, I am hesitant to blame my problems on my region as opposed to a social connectivity issue. I know that I don't know anyone here. I used to be more connected, and now I am not. I don't even know anywhere to buy weed in this city, and I know there is a lot of weed around. @fasterfb I had one supplier of meh product from 2006 or so until more recently when I started experimenting with the DW. I know one guy, locally, and have occasionally worked with him. Total since 2006? I think I have had 6 different batches if you consider one source/chemist to be one batch. I will count more specifically later to confirm.

 

[F.U.B.A.R.]

There wouldn't be a 300page discussion about it if ppl were happy with it.

It would seem that most of the people not happy with it are older users though...

 

[Negi]

I'd say my first experience was great, but using the same product a second time months later produced a clearly meh experience

If you had different reactions from the same product that clearly isn't a mehDMA problem.

I truly think it is regional and social.

From the thread it seems much larger than that. Like you said, people have tested multiple (large) DW sources and found them to be meh. People have bought some of the most popular and widely circulated pills in Europe (QDance) and said they are meh. People have bought probably the most well known pills on the US west coast (G6) and found them to be meh. Personally I think trying pills is a waste of time as it adds the unknown of what dosage was actually taken (and the thread will just claim they must have been copies, etc), but those represent much more than the 56g the local dealer is bringing in from their sources.

 

[indigoaura]

If you had different reactions from the same product that clearly isn't a mehDMA problem.


From the thread it seems much larger than that. Like you said, people have tested multiple (large) DW sources and found them to be meh. People have bought some of the most popular and widely circulated pills in Europe (QDance) and said they are meh. People have bought probably the most well known pills on the US west coast (G6) and found them to be meh. Personally I think trying pills is a waste of time as it adds the unknown of what dosage was actually taken (and the thread will just claim they must have been copies, etc), but those represent much more than the 56g the local dealer is bringing in from their sources.

But then there seem to be people up in the Northern part of the USA like @G_Chem and others who are consistently getting good product, and others in Canada have reported similar experiences. When I say regional, what I mean is that some regions do not seem to have the meh product in as wide of circulation as other areas. It has to be a synth route issue, with major distributors who use that synth route producing subpar product. And, as someone else suggested, maybe individual genetics are playing in part in how sensitive people are to the issue.

 

[Negi]

Sure, but the pills used by hundreds of thousands of people have been proclaimed to be meh. MDMA sourced from vendors with thousands of sales, who are shipping out up to 100g at a time, is meh. If a popular pill that is mainly sold in the SoCal rave scene (G6) made people feel sleepy and unwilling to dance you think it would be mentioned. I'm just frustrated how the explanation always boils down to "kids these days wouldn't recognize euphoria and energy if it slapped them in the face".

This also really brings out the shifting nature of how the effects of mehDMA are described in the thread. When I was trying to narrow down how people experienced it, the responses were mainly "it feels like the anti-MDMA, noticeable for missing all the things you like about it", "You feel worse than before you took it" and "like being on low dose xanax". People talked about it as if it were a mental poison that would ruin the experience of any other drug it was combined with, like LSD or 2cb. But now it's similar enough to magic MDMA that lots of people never noticed the change, or just blamed it on losing some of the magic. I was reading back through the thread to learn a bit more and this time last year it was arguing about if mehDMA was a far worse or far superior drug to methylone.

 

[Simosom]

Everyone should be honest, next time while taking MDMA ask your self, may i came close to some of the best Erowind experience, or, does this shit honestly can be used for MDMA-Assisted Psychotherapy.
What kind of set and setting is used during psychotherapy anyway? What about tolerance, what if we need more than one therapy?
Soon, sides will be switched, young people will be telling us what magic MDMA experience is.

 

[Negi]

does this shit honestly can be used for MDMA-Assisted Psychotherapy.

That's one of the reasons I'm skeptical. I'm involved with the /r/MDMAtherapy subreddit, which has over 9000 users now. The vast majority of the users posting experiences are using underground therapists or friends, so they aren't getting the MAPS produced GMP MDMA. Now one could certainly argue that some of the therapists would have access to high quality supplies of MDMA, but people who are using street sourced product with a friend sitting for them are having very therapeutic and healing experiences. There are almost no posts where people say "I tried it and didn't get any therapeutic effects". The few that have occurred can usually be tied to uncertain dosages (we always try and discourage people from using pills for this reason) and on one occasion someone took it solo and became distracted by some of the effects (they got very horny so it didn't sound like mehDMA).

There's another subreddit /r/MDMASolo, that was created after it's founder had his ideas rejected by the main MDMAtherapy subreddit (he feels that ADHD and schizophrenia can be cured using MDMA therapy). Their focus is on the solo MDMA experience, so no therapist supplied MDMA involved. A glance at the posts there shows again that the only real "It didn't work" post has someone taking pills of an unknown dosage.

I think a key thing to note is that it seems like the majority of the therapeutic users are MDMA naive, they've never taken it before and have only sought it out to trying and cure their traumas. This means they usually don't have a well known source and have to obtain it from friends of friends, or ordering it from a DNM. The fact that there aren't a number of reported mehDMA experiences despite many people fumbling around and taking the fist MDMA they can get their hands on is pretty telling to me.

 

[indigoaura]

So, what is your hypothesis, @Negi ?

 

[TripSitterNZ]

Have yet to seen anybody here test acutal legit dutch pills though. First they are very hard to bring in outside of holland and Germany due to customs alot easier to get through straight powder or crystals. Most pressies are just repressed crystal once it arrives in the country at that point you have no idea what the mdma looked like or the quality of it. This is usually done on very poor mdma which looks very bad and wouldn't be managed to sold if somebody saw it so instead they all pressed in whatever country the person lives in.

You can get smaller amounts of legit dutch pills in but its still nothing in the massive amounts and its risky for the person doing it if its DNM. Instead proper smugglers and international syndicates should be bringing in mdma from legit dutch labs by the hundreds of kgs this is where you get alot higher product than some teenagers trying to make quick bank ordering mail direct from holland to get themselves arrested one day and usually very subpar and seedy groups selling it to them that also sell heroin and crack so they have no interest in making sure that mdma is acutally good and will give you the cheapest trash they can make bank on.

 

[indigoaura]

So, this is a random anecdote to add here, but I think it is relevant.

A friend of mind has this special needs dog. The dog has something wrong with it, and it cannot urinate without a medication. Easy enough to know when the meds are working, because when the meds are working the dog urinates and if the dog does not get the meds, it swells up and cannot go.

Anyway, she told me that when her vet changed the brand of the medication, the dog could no longer urinate. She had to call around and find a compounding pharmacy to make the med because the generic brand did not work for the dog. As soon as she gave the dog the compounded version, the dog could urinate again.

Same dose. Same med. Different brand.

The compounding pharmacy told her that sometimes the additives and fillers in off-brand tablets interfere in efficacy.

@Negi I have commented here several times that I felt like MehDMA may actually work well for quiet, solo introspection. I also commented that it seemed to activate a semi hypnagogic state if you were relaxed enough. How do we know that MehDMA does not have therapeutic value? How would a drug-naive user be able to differentiate what drug they had received?

 

[indigoaura]

@TripSitterNZ I don't feel like there is any certain way to actually obtain legit Dutch pills here in the USA. Anything can be copycatted, apparently. I was ready to order some of the bi-layer pills, but then people here told me that those same pills had been re-produced out of Brazil with the same press.

 

[TripSitterNZ]

@TripSitterNZ I don't feel like there is any certain way to actually obtain legit Dutch pills here in the USA. Anything can be copycatted, apparently. I was ready to order some of the bi-layer pills, but then people here told me that those same pills had been re-produced out of Brazil with the same press.

With how intense US security is these days compared to pre 9/11 where people could just bring in pressed pills in pillowcases computer cases and vitamin jars that really shut down alot of smuggling routes they were big back in the days now it has to be done through ports or the mail system. America is a very big country aswell so the amount of mdma required to smuggle through the border by the dutch to meet the demand would be pretty large making it seem less likely that a majority of mdma encountered is truly from holland. Maybe the cartels are making mdma aswell that is trash just like their meth coke and heroin quality in mexico all very low compared to what the compounds are in their specialist countries.

 

[Negi]

I suspect that there are a number of different factors that can lead to a "meh" MDMA experience, judging by the considerably different descriptions that people in the thread have given for the feeling of mehDMA. This obviously complicates identifying any individual problem. Based off the fact that many of the people who are experiencing mehDMA have taken a a considerable number of total MDMA doses, and found that their peak MDMA experiences happened in their youth (or at least a number of years ago), I think that age and total uses has a modulating effect on the MDMA experience for people (clearly affected considerably by different genetic profiles). I say this as in general, the reports of new users (especially young ones) match the claimed effects of magic MDMA. Would this explain the change in MDMA for every user in the thread? No, there are likely other factors involved, some of which might be synthesis or impurity related. I'm certainly willing to look into that, and I've been the most active in digging up research and information that could identify any such factors in the most recent part of the thread.

We know that serotonin and dopamine receptor density declines with age, so I would actually be very surprised if someone got the exact same effects today as they had 15-20 years ago, especially if you add in the change in set that the intervening years of lived experience will have created. I'm not trying to explain away the whole thread here, just put forward my main hypothesis.

How do we know that MehDMA does not have therapeutic value? How would a drug-naive user be able to differentiate what drug they had received?

I am basing that off the fact that on the list of effects, meh had "No" in the Feelings of empathy column. People have also frequently mentioned negative emotions arriving on MDMA, which doesn't match the "fear erasure" that is hypothesized to be another key MDMA effect for re-interpreting traumatic events.

 

[Rectify]

What Is Wrong With The MDMA Available Today?

It is generated largely from PMK-glycidate, which has a piperonylic oxygen bound to itself. This is a form of oxidation or, put simply, burning. This hypothesis is totally testable via NMR spectroscopy. Have at it, if you wish. Start with eugenol instead.

 

[Negi]

What Is Wrong With The MDMA Available Today?

It is generated largely from PMK-glycidate, which has a piperonylic oxygen bound to itself. This is a form of oxidation or, put simply, burning. This hypothesis is totally testable via NMR spectroscopy. Have at it, if you wish. Start with eugenol instead.

So what effect does that have?