What is wrong with the MDMA available today?

[G_Chem]

So I went to the Drugs Data site for donating but it ultimately sent me to Erowid..

Yea he’s the only person who’s actually given us the time of day. I remember earlier in my days of researching this topic (fuck 7/8yrs ago now..) I emailed him regarding old 90’s ecstasy submissions and he got back with a good/respectful response really quick.

Right now not only is he trying to help us find our answer but he’s updating his database as well. I’m no expert on lab analysis but the bigger/wider your database the better. They’ll now have references for all these questionable substances. So they are in essence trying to change their practices by listening to our advice.
-GC

 

[Hilopsilo]

Yeah real mdma make you hot and sweaty like crazy. Meh makes you cold and shivery.

I'm not so sure its one or the other, IMO it might be more accurate to say good MDMA just further increases how sensitive you become to temperature differences. The M that made me too hot inside the club is the same M that I felt like was freezing to death waiting for a cab home afterwards. Generally, it seems during the come-up and peak is when feeling too hot is common in myself and others, or maybe simply the temperature sensitivity either way is most intense at that point.

Getting hot on the comeup is one of the most stressful parts of rolling lol, makes you think you are going to become a statistic. I usually have to stand outside the crowd until my body temperature feels comfortable enough to actually rejoin my friends dancing.

Even with perfectly good MDMA, waiting for the cab in the winter/rain after a rave in sweaty n' skimpy rave attire, I've felt like I'm actually going to freeze to death in just those couple minutes

I’m not sure comedowns really can be used to gauge how magical the experience is..

When I was younger I’d get nasty comedowns too, emotionally and physically, but it’s not that my rolls were any better.

Back then I ate like shit, (we all did it seems) didn’t hydrate well, often drank with it, didn’t take antioxidants...

These days my rolls are WAY harder but I take all the necessary precautions to make sure once I comedown that it goes well. I often do use other substances like DMT in the day or two following to further negate any serotonin dip.

So I wonder if reduced comedowns are also the result of the health kick much of western society has been on in recent years compared to late 90’s/early 00’s.

Edit- Come to think of it the last time I was unable to follow a lot of my rolling rules, I got sick as hell right on comeup and spent the whole night feeling like I was freezing but really actually overheating under a blanket. I felt that comedown for months afterwards, I also felt that significantly more MDMa had been metabolized into MDA that trip cuz I was getting visuals like I’d never had on any MDxx before. (This was a batch I was VERY familiar with.)

-GC

Agreed, for the last 10 years any MDMA I've taken that tested clean of any adulterants, Meh or not has a similar "comedown" for me, or lack of one.

Opinion must be expressed by someone who was dealing with magic mdma and mehmdma. People under the age of 25 have no idea how real mdma works, so they describe mehmdma in their reports thinking that it works well

I agree you need experience with both to get any sort of perspective, but please enough with this Either people take it enough to start realizing a difference or they don't, I'm still not entirely convinced this issue has much to do with who-had-what-when

if you say they're too young to know, they're just gonna say you're too old to remember, and we're back in that stalemate

 

[popsweat]

To me qdance crew presses are magic mdma. Eye wiggles, euphoria, enhanced tactile etc

You can tell how much effort they put into the press since they are usually bilayered, hardpressed and sometimes have sheen waxy look to them. Nothing like the other pills out there being pressed

 

[ThreePointCircle]

To me qdance crew presses are magic mdma. Eye wiggles, euphoria, enhanced tactile etc

The only consistency in reports seems to be quite a few people have good things to say about qdance pills. I don't get it though, they are huge. Surely they can only be described as magic if you get full effects on half of a pill?

I know we're are starting to think about a continuum from completely meh to completely magic depending on the amount and profile of impurities. Maybe qdance pills are sufficiently less meh than other options at the moment?

 

[vecktor]

I would say at this point that to track down the issue we should do as follow:

1. Obtain a certain amount of mehMDMA (few grams)
2. convert it to the freebase
3. gassing with HCl to obtain HCl salt, so dosage would be consistent with PIKHAL data, ie. 80-120 mg as active dosage, so to rule out dosage differences and possible different pharmacokinetics from other salts with different molecular weight as citrates, tartrates etc.
4. recrystallise several times to obtain an extra pure product, keeping the mother liquor - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recrystallization_(chemistry)
5. bio assay the ultra clean product!
6. dry the combined mother liquors and send them to several substance testing companies to see how they deal with extremely unpure products and which substances they possibly find as impurities.
7. have the ultra pure mdma tested as well and see the results.

Personally I think that today both possibilities are true at the same time, today mdma is lacking specific synth route active byproducts as it was in the past, and possibly the new routes are creating other byproducts that are instead competitive in the brain receptor with the MDMA.

The alternative is to extract Meh MDMA with a poor solvent for MDMA.HCl such as MTBE or Ether, evaporate and concentrate the extract and GC-MS that. Triturating with antisolvent. If it is being sent to a testing service it will need absorbing on something solid like lactose or silica gel because they will have difficulties handling small quantities of extracts. If you freebase the material then some things may be be lost into the aqueous and other things might be altered by the strongly basic solution. So it is better to extract the impurities before this.


Once that is done then the material can be freebased and purified with whatever method, recrystallized, distilled,run through a column and turned into HCl monohydrate or anhydrous form.

The main thing is to get samples with bioassay reports saying meh or magic, and then compare the two groups. If there is a chemical difference then it should be obvious. If there is no detectable difference then that is useful information too.
My forensic head says if this is real then the variability is probably something to do with syntheses being driven by methylamine synthon availability (nitromethane N-methylformamide etc) rather than the availability of PMK, PMK glycidate or safrole. MDMA cooks may be able to help find an answer but they are unlikely to come forward.

It would be good to know this before MDMA therapies hit the mainstream.

 

[ThreePointCircle]

@vecktor slight tangent: is recrystallisation as a method of purifying mdma feasible for a non-expert in a home setup? I'm assuming no, but if it is, does it require a good estimation of what impurities are present or could a procedure be developed that is likely to pop out clean mdma at the end?

 

[vash445]

@vecktor slight tangent: is recrystallisation as a method of purifying mdma feasible for a non-expert in a home setup? I'm assuming no, but if it is, does it require a good estimation of what impurities are present or could a procedure be developed that is likely to pop out clean mdma at the end?

Its possible but pointless on the gram. and it's easier on bigger amounts.

 

[ThreePointCircle]

Its possible but pointless on the gram. You gotta like pickup CP (checkpoint) ammounts before it becomes worthwhile

It seems, at least where I'm from, that I'm so far from being able to get magicdma that for me the cost/benefit ratio means I'm willing to do quite a lot. Like, if it meant 5g of meh could be converted into 500mg of magic I'd be fine with that return.

 

[vecktor]

@vecktor slight tangent: is recrystallisation as a method of purifying mdma feasible for a non-expert in a home setup? I'm assuming no, but if it is, does it require a good estimation of what impurities are present or could a procedure be developed that is likely to pop out clean mdma at the end?

yes recrystalisation is doable on a sub gram scale, but you need small kit. like small funnels and preferably one of sintered glass, decent filter paper, glass pipettes, decent rubber free syringes, hot air gun, small flasks or vials and plenty of patience. You need to think about what you are doing before you do it and think it through so you don't lose any material unnecessarily, for example don't physically remove things from filter papers or frits dissolve them as part of the next crystalisation or dissolve it and use evaporation to get back the solids. Try and remove the mother liquor with a pipette, not a filter. Old school chemists would centrifuge the solids down and pipette out the mother liquor, add fresh ice cold solvent and agitate the solids then centrifuge again. This is all a bit of a lost art which is not taught today which is a shame. Could a non chemist do it? of course.

Look up microscale chemistry. Recrystalisation was the go to technique before everyone ran columns for everything and produced yellow oils, supposedly pure to NMR, for every single compound known to man. Recrystalisations can be run down to about 25-50mg, less than that and it all gets a bit too difficult even for pros with all the toys.

Losses will be 20-50% even if you do it right, but you will end up with a pure product. Solvent selection is critical, Isopropanol or high grade ethanol is the traditional thing for these type of compounds, the solvent needs to be pure or rather it needs to be clean. The classic book guide for the perplexed organic chemist by HJE Loewenthal is excellent on micro chemistry.

So IMHO it is very possible to for anyone to successfully turn 1g into much less, but hopefully much more pure material... There is also the huge issue that MDMA is unfortunately highly illegal and doing this kind of thing could end up with a bottomless pit opening up right under you.

if you want to learn then it would make sense to practice and do it with something vaguely similar but not illegal.

 

[G_Chem]

^^^Some good info here. For anyone looking to do any chemistry process, think over each step beforehand and how you can optimize them further if possible with minimal loss, look over all available literature on the subject and when you’ve thought it over write down a rough draft of your plan. Then go over the rough draft and optimize further if possible.

Micro-Chemistry glassware isn’t easy to find. So for the non-chemists, head on down to your local community thrift store and find unique pieces of glass that way. Much of it won’t be heat resistant but you can find odd stuff. You can even find good lab glass from time to time.

Think over your steps and what pieces may fit your needs. If you have a Dremel drill you can modify pieces too.

-GC

 

[vash445]

@vecktor sorry for the delays here is the Magic NMR sample .

i'll try and get the other 2 samples of meh I recently got, but he told me the sample didn't even come close on one... I'm guessing that is the MDP2Pol batch

 

[vecktor]

^^^Some good info here. For anyone looking to do any chemistry process, think over each step beforehand and how you can optimize them further if possible with minimal loss, look over all available literature on the subject and when you’ve thought it over write down a rough draft of your plan. Then go over the rough draft and optimize further if possible.

Micro-Chemistry glassware isn’t easy to find. So for the non-chemists, head on down to your local community thrift store and find unique pieces of glass that way. Much of it won’t be heat resistant but you can find odd stuff. You can even find good lab glass from time to time.

Think over your steps and what pieces may fit your needs. If you have a Dremel drill you can modify pieces too.

-GC

Ebay has all the glassware anyone could ever want.

 

[G_Chem]

Just be careful.. It’s also the most watched source out there too. Only use it if you absolutely have to.

-GC

 

[vecktor]

@vecktor sorry for the delays here is the Magic NMR sample .

i'll try and get the other 2 samples of meh I recently got, but he told me the sample didn't even come close on one... I'm guessing that is the MDP2Pol batch

The more data the more likely we are to find something is there or something is missing.

I will assign the patent for magicMDMA to bluelight if something does come out of it.

If this is Magic, was the earlier NMR Meh or Magic?

 

[vash445]

The more data the more likely we are to find something is there or something is missing.

I will assign the patent for magicMDMA to bluelight if something does come out of it.

agreed that's what I told him, he is gonna try and look in the machine now that he found the magic batch thou... But he wanted a bigger sample of A which we can't get @indigoaura could possibly get me more of B..

Sorry I do not have more for you

 

[vash445]

The more data the more likely we are to find something is there or something is missing.

I will assign the patent for magicMDMA to bluelight if something does come out of it.

If this is Magic, was the earlier NMR Meh or Magic?

Earlier NMR was meh safrole based, Al/HG with methylamine. wacker based MEOH

Todays NMR is Magic . Non darknet as far as I know . unknown route

 

[indigoaura]

@vash445

Yes, I can get more of Sample B without a problem. Sample A was the one I was more interested in, as I consumed that shit for a decade at least. It was previously sent to Drugs Data and showed up as MDMA + MDP2Pol. At that time, the supplier added multiple acetone washes to his methodology. Product was whiter after that, but the effects never really improved.

Drugs Data is also re-examining the data for the batch I sent to them (Sample A).

 

[G_Chem]

One more post with pictures showing the difference between blocky obviously cut MDMA “shards” and more pure MDMA shards..

First a pic of some blocky likely impure shit, whatdya know Uk origin...

https://i.redd.it/ejcaw2or6rb41.jpg

Second is more in line with how it should look..

https://i.redd.it/8xvj53t37yb41.jpg

Obviously neither are clear/pure but you hopefully start to get an idea of what I’m talking about when I make the description of the different shards out there.

-GC

 

[popsweat]

The only consistency in reports seems to be quite a few people have good things to say about qdance pills. I don't get it though, they are huge. Surely they can only be described as magic if you get full effects on half of a pill?

I know we're are starting to think about a continuum from completely meh to completely magic depending on the amount and profile of impurities. Maybe qdance pills are sufficiently less meh than other options at the moment?

Most reports have people testing with half or quarters because a full pill is too strong. The crew also distributes non press mdma as well but when purchasing its hard to know if its actual sourced from them. That's why the presses are easier because they are very difficult to copy.

The nature of the hard press gives it a longer and slower release as well which is why people claim 5-6 hours on it.

Here is a pic of the supposed source mdma that goes into presses let me know what you guys think

MDMA.JPG - AnonFiles

anonfile.com

 

[vash445]

@vecktor this should be a sample of meh. Not sure if the Pol batch or sample B

Huge peak around 3.7 and integrates into 46