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What is wrong with the MDMA available today?

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@babooon87 The nystagmus is a really good "side effect" to bring up. The batch that I did in October had intense (unable to use my phone to find a song on Spotify) nystagmus. But the lack of "feel good" just made it weird. That batch also had the most intense memory loss effect I have ever experienced. I could not complete a sentence. It also had a weird vibrating jaw effect that I did not care for. But it lacked magic
Intense nystagmus + scrambled memory and difficulty completing sentences, less magic and jaw clenching : that sounds a hell lot like MDA from that description. Was it lab tested and confirmed mdma ? If not I would say that this was MDA for sure. Your description fits perfectly what I would have said if asked the differences between MDA and MDMA.
 
@babooon87 It did not feel like MDA. I like MDA. It did not have any of the psychoactive MDA components. Also, please note, it was specifically NOT jaw clenching. Instead, it was jaw vibrating. It was a very different effect on the jaw from what classic MDMA does. This was like a "brrr I'm cold" kind of shiver. Other MDMA makes me grind, chew, or just have my jaw all sideways. Now, strangely, 2CB will make my jaw tremble sometimes more like this stuff did. This MDMA looked like MDMA on Simon's reagent testing as opposed to MDA, and tested as MDMA on all the other reagents as well. I did not send this one to a lab.

In any case...I used to associate dilated pupils, nystagmus, and jaw clenching (not vibrating) with good MDMA. My old school experiences contained all three consistently.
 
@babooon87 It did not feel like MDA. I like MDA. It did not have any of the psychoactive MDA components. Also, please note, it was specifically NOT jaw clenching. Instead, it was jaw vibrating. It was a very different effect on the jaw from what classic MDMA does. This was like a "brrr I'm cold" kind of shiver. Other MDMA makes me grind, chew, or just have my jaw all sideways. Now, strangely, 2CB will make my jaw tremble sometimes more like this stuff did. This MDMA looked like MDMA on Simon's reagent testing as opposed to MDA, and tested as MDMA on all the other reagents as well. I did not send this one to a lab.

In any case...I used to associate dilated pupils, nystagmus, and jaw clenching (not vibrating) with good MDMA. My old school experiences contained all three consistently.
I agree for these three symptoms. That being said dilated pupils is the least subjective one and I think the most important to draw the line between Magic and Meh. I have never had a magic roll that did not dilate my pupils. Hell even things like meth ot adderal dilate my pupils more than that new mdma. On Meh I look perfectly sober and no one could tell I took something. On real MDMA I look like a fucking mess, drenched in sweat with insect eyes, my jaw moving non stop and my eyelids dropping down.
 
Nystagmus rarely gets reported by people these days, but 100% agree it was more common back in the day.

It’s so under reported these days I almost forget it was a really common symptom of MDMA..

I never really got it even back in the day but I’ve always (and still do) get really blurry vision. I’ve also watched people take the same product as me and get mad eye wiggles so I know it’s just me.

Yea when’s the last time any of ya’ll heard people talking about eye wiggles..

-GC
 
Yea when’s the last time any of ya’ll heard people talking about eye wiggles..

Just about every time I indulge. Perhaps I'm susceptible to it as i experience nystagmus even on the MehDMA, but the better the shit, the more i can't see.

And I fuckin love it...
 
Yes. And, that was my point with sharing that anecdote awhile back of the EDM event. The people who looked like they were rolling were the minority. They had taken their shirts off. They were obviously hot. They were touching and rubbing everything. They kept running their fingers through their own hair. Their jaws were askew. Their eyes were huge. It was visibly obvious that they were rolling. All the other people standing around with their arms crossed and spaced out, grim looks on their faces did not look the part.
Yes,,its been so lomg now, but I rember how a different body language just automatically took over. Frist the rushing, then the heat, then depending on setting the intense desire to move and stretch and completely free the body up without any self-consciousness or thought of surroundings or any level of fear or anxiety.

The better the ecstasy,,the more obvious it would be visually.

However there are exceptions call a phenomenon I was always one myself and I could be on the most insanely high dose of really incredible MDMA crystal or pills and people would swear I was completely normal yet I was feeling everything you would want and desire from the drug but physiologically my body was just totally in control almost in as zen state.

Like one example a friend and I has four smiley face pills of the absolute highest order unbelievable pure ecstasy no come down just incredibly on top of the world and strong as hell.

When we got back from the club about 3 am having taken 4 extremely strong ecstasy pills since 9:30 pm. my friend and the other people present were adamant that I seem to 100-percent straight yet I was on the absolute highest most euphoric happiest and transcendental buzz of my life but just so right within myself that I could access and appear 100% normally and collected.

It is definitely a phenomenon and one whereby I was able to abuse substances in the way that I did and manage in all surroundings until later on in my drug taking years when I was generally in a more poorly condition and things were more apparent.

So @indigoaura I'm not disagreeing with or detracting from your point in any way just sharing this perspective because there also were many times when I was clearly physically off my head on MDMA just things I'm not always the same depending on how you are as an individual in a specific situation mentally spiritually and physiologically.



And also on genreral- does anybody recall first hearing the trend and terminology of LTC, Long term comedown appearing? I stepped out of the scene in 2005 until a year ago.

Did it start popping up after 2005, which is when I personally believe a lot of the the inferior MDMA began to come in?

Just something I haven't given much thought that's all.

Just thinking allowed here by the way folks.
 
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Yeah real mdma make you hot and sweaty like crazy. Meh makes you cold and shivery.
Yes but I recall strongly, in 1996 when I Began my MDMA experiences one of the first characteristics I learnt about it was how you would leave a warm environment into a cold environment and be absolutely perishingly cold like just going to the bathroom from the nice communal music playing pot smoking living room or bedroom and you come back back to the homely igloo so glad to be home lol! With everybody praising you for being so brave and surviving the cold I'm not even kidding.

It was especially noticeable at the Sanctuary Milton Keynes legal hardcore and jungle raves in the 90s whenever we would go outside to the fairground and food stall area for some fresh air we would be perishingly cold but on speed it was completely different and it's nowhere near as enhanced.

On one occasion after a New Year's Eve event at the Sanctuary helter-skelter it was after it was finished they kicked us all out of the building at 6 am and made us queue up for our coats outside it was literally minus 23 degrees with the wind chill factor I promise you for a fact and we waited 3 hours in wet T-shirts on comedowns from speed. Not fun but was so amazing to finally get home and warm. I was only 16 then, beforre first ever MDMA.


The stuff from the Netherlands is powerful! I had eye wobbles for about four hours lmfao couldn't text for shit

Used to love that symptom especially on the come up I've a really good dose we just called it I wobbles we won't say ok today by the internet back then. I always really liked that Simpson though and associated it with good quality pills.
I never really got it even back in the day but I’ve always (and still do) get really blurry vision. I’ve also watched people take the same product as me and get mad eye wiggles so I know it’s just me.

Interesting and open-minded assumption which I can agree with because essentially we take so much for granted and forget how everybody's own physiology is unique to them like there would be many ways I would not Express any of of certain particular signs and symptoms of MDMA intoxication. My jaw was pretty sturdy below inssne doses for example. But we all respomd differently physiologically to to a huge variety of substances and foods.

My vision was ALWAYS shot to bits on MDMA though., I couldn't read I couldn't do shit lol. It would have really helps to have some glasses back then. Hehe, I would have needed to go to the opticians rolling hard for my prescription! 😅
Just about every time I indulge. Perhaps I'm susceptible to it as i experience nystagmus even on the MehDMA, but the better the shit, the more i can't see.

With you on that one bro it's such a nice feeling because it completely takes you into the moment and out of your head and psychological thought and memory processes. still one of my earliest memories getting to know MDMA going into the toilets at the Sanctuary Milton Keynes and getting loads of vision shakes trying to focus on the urinal.
 
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I confirm that purple mdma from canada as mehmdma...

I will not even describe the details because it makes no sense.

Lost time, money and health.

Is it possible to buy magicmdma at DN?
 
Is it possible to buy magicmdma at DN?

Possible...sure. But it is challenging. I have yet to really succeed. The reviews are more about shipping, reliability etc. and not really about effects of the product. Hard to know what to try, and then everything is always getting shut down or removed, so you may see something that looks like a good option and then it is gone.
 
But do start threads regarding MDMA vs MehDMA on DN forums and ask people to report which vendor sells which. Eventually that may decrease the market for MehDMA and increase incentives for making the magic stuff more available. Recently had some frome the DN sold as "old school" Saffrole based MDMA. Better than the MehDMA I've had, but not 100% the real MDMA experience. Big, clear, crystals without any smell. May be good stuff, but a bit cut. Took about 125 mg and it felt like 70-75 mg of the good stuff.
 
Another thought I had was to get batches tested by different facilities and if they happen to vary like happened recently with some guy on Reddit, then we simply show both testing facilities the results and see their response...

I don’t think many/any people ever do this and bes case scenario they finally start to re-evaluate their testing procedures.

-GC
 
But do start threads regarding MDMA vs MehDMA on DN forums and ask people to report which vendor sells which. Eventually that may decrease the market for MehDMA and increase incentives for making the magic stuff more available. Recently had some frome the DN sold as "old school" Saffrole based MDMA. Better than the MehDMA I've had, but not 100% the real MDMA experience. Big, clear, crystals without any smell. May be good stuff, but a bit cut. Took about 125 mg and it felt like 70-75 mg of the good stuff.
I posted a review once on the dread forum. The moderator wrote that mdma is mdma and if it does not work because of tolerance or age ... A few hours later the topic was deleted. They are there to ensure the flow of money on dark markets and not to care for quality.
 
Maybe preface such a post with referring to this thread and write that no one should say the difference is because of tolerance, age, setting etc without first having read this thread... :^) If many of us posts, I'd be surprised if it gets taken down. Maybe just ask others to report in the thread when and where they find magic stuff (instead of reporting on the bad stuff - which would be more likely to upset some people).
 
Opinion must be expressed by someone who was dealing with magic mdma and mehmdma. People under the age of 25 have no idea how real mdma works, so they describe mehmdma in their reports thinking that it works well
 
That shows that the Gluhbarnum hypothesis about 2,3-MDMA is false. As predicted GC-MS can tell the difference.
Deduction based on the commercial unavailability of 2,3-methylenedioxy compounds suggested 2,3 is a dead end.
The only outside possibility as far as isomer goes is 3-methoxy-4-methyl and that is a really long shot.

No other isomer has the same fragmentation pattern as MDMA. So that pretty much kills the isobar isomer theory dead

I will go further and say the enantiomer hypothesis is also false because there is no plausible mechanism for creating one enantiomer over another using the commercial clandestine processes.

If this is effect is real and I currently think it as likely to be real as not, it leaves the following possibilities

Active impurities altering the pharmacology either:-

Missing active impurities with a positive (user POV) effect, ie the good stuff is actually less pure than bad stuff

Active impurities with a negative (user POV) effect, ie the good stuff is purer than the bad stuff.

if we are going down this particular impurity rabbit hole, the possible impurities must be essentially invisible to GC-MS which means either heavy or unstable, or it is being seen but ignored, which is why the TIC data file from IEC is important.
The inconclusive NMR data, suggests that the material Vash ran through NMR is essentially pure MDMA but not absolutely clear because NMR would struggle to see dimer contamination, More data is essential, in particular NMR for Meh material side by side with Magic material.

Or very much less likely but still not disproven,
Inactive impurity
An inactive cut that has similar or higher UV absorbance to MDMA which enables the drug to be heavily cut but appear to be relatively high in MDMA to the UV testing at IEC. Or a different polymorph or an impurity that sequesters MDMA altering absorption.

that is the scientific point of view.
I would say at this point that to track down the issue we should do as follow:
  1. Obtain a certain amount of mehMDMA (few grams)
  2. convert it to the freebase
  3. gassing with HCl to obtain HCl salt, so dosage would be consistent with PIKHAL data, ie. 80-120 mg as active dosage, so to rule out dosage differences and possible different pharmacokinetics from other salts with different molecular weight as citrates, tartrates etc.
  4. recrystallise several times to obtain an extra pure product, keeping the mother liquor - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recrystallization_(chemistry)
  5. bio assay the ultra clean product! :)
  6. dry the combined mother liquors and send them to several substance testing companies to see how they deal with extremely unpure products and which substances they possibly find as impurities.
  7. have the ultra pure mdma tested as well and see the results.
Personally I think that today both possibilities are true at the same time, today mdma is lacking specific synth route active byproducts as it was in the past, and possibly the new routes are creating other byproducts that are instead competitive in the brain receptor with the MDMA.
 
I posted a review once on the dread forum. The moderator wrote that mdma is mdma and if it does not work because of tolerance or age ... A few hours later the topic was deleted. They are there to ensure the flow of money on dark markets and not to care for quality.
Maybe preface such a post with referring to this thread and write that no one should say the difference is because of tolerance, age, setting etc without first having read this thread... :^) If many of us posts, I'd be surprised if it gets taken down. Maybe just ask others to report in the thread when and where they find magic stuff (instead of reporting on the bad stuff - which would be more likely to upset some people).

There's a thread on DNMAvengers at the moment. Not a lot of promising leads on it yet though.
 
Sent our boy Earth a fiddy.. It ain’t much but Erowid deserves it.
Is that via the Erowid donations page? If Drugs Data are serious about getting to the bottom of this I'd be up for donating (and I hope others would too). Just want to make sure they would be thorough in bringing their procedures up to scratch. The way I see it, based on the papers mentioned in this thread, if an analysis doesn't include a number of by-products/impurities then there's something wrong with the testing methodology.
 
I emailed Drugs Data to ask where donations should go. Also, is there anyone in this thread who has submitted a MehDMA sample to Drugs Data previously?
 
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