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What is wrong with the MDMA available today?

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psy997 said:
It's not that simple re: saffrole vs pmk based product. Both can be good, and both can be good - at least, that's what it seems like from our research here.

Be very wary of product from the darknet, most of it is shit.
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a revision of some of my thoughts on this, way to think about it rather than the precursor or method chosen being the culprit, maybe one synthesis route/precursor over another is easier to fuck up and create the Meh stuff (what I think is probably structural isomers). As in, (I'm making this up) the OG ways you could bend the rules/fuck up a reasonable amount and the product would still come out good, whereas other routes/precursors a slight misstep in the process results in a product that is unknowingly no good. Both ways, or any way, can produce the real McCoy in theory and in that sense MDMA = MDMA still holds true (and regardless of what lies at the bottom of all this, I think that 'll technically still be true), but one route might have a higher propensity to create structural isomers as byproducts by fudging a particularly touchy step.
 
psychetool said:
The only thing that's wrong is that it's NOT ACTUALLY MDMA. Fucking bath salt bullshit.
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This was made FROM safrole... This is not bath salts this is "private lab" small batch MDMA, mariqus comes up purple. Something is def going wrong either making mdp2p.. or the animation process.. My guess something wrong in the last step... If it WAS bath salts, we would have answer. but strustal these isomosers/missynth prodct as so close to the real mcoy, MMM GC/MS and NMR and MALDI is fooled on a regular basis
 
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Hilopsilo said:
a revision of some of my thoughts on this, way to think about it rather than the precursor or method chosen being the culprit, maybe one synthesis route/precursor over another is easier to fuck up and create the Meh stuff (what I think is probably structural isomers). As in, (I'm making this up) the OG ways you could bend the rules/fuck up a reasonable amount and the product would still come out good, whereas other routes/precursors a slight misstep in the process results in a product that is unknowingly no good. Both ways, or any way, can produce the real McCoy in theory and in that sense MDMA = MDMA still holds true (and regardless of what lies at the bottom of all this, I think that 'll technically still be true), but one route might have a higher propensity to create structural isomers as byproducts by fudging a particularly touchy step.
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This is most certainly the issue. BUT it seems the dutch use catalytic hydrogenation, and the american use AL/HG but clearly both have the chance of making meh product
 
I don't know shit about chemistry unfortunately, but I can tell real MDMA from bath salt bullshit 10/10. It's real sad to hear they can beat the marquis test.....
 
psychetool said:
I don't know shit about chemistry unfortunately, but I can tell real MDMA from bath salt bullshit 10/10. It's real sad to hear they can beat the marquis test.....
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It's not bathsalts OMFG...

It's MDMA that is being Mis synth, but because it comes from MDMA precoursers and is running a reaction to Make MDMA it's mdma almost...

Bathsalts by like Def are Cathinone usually... Cathinone differs from many other amphetamines in that it has a ketone functional group. If you look its a double bonded oxygen.
Look at the difference between meth and methcathinone. Look at the double bonded oxygens and there is your "bathsalts".

Also DONT diss these "bath salts", one of MY mdma routes starts either from BK-MDMA (methylone) precursors. Or from 100% scratch. and because it's a double bonded oxygen you can cleave it to make MDMA. Friedel Crafts with 2-chloro-3-methyl-1R-aziridine (which causes spontaneous ring-opening into the isopropylamine). Switching from MDRA to 5-aminopropylbenzofuran or 5-aminopropylindane/indole. Dont diss these these bathsalts cuz someone can EASILY make real MDMA from it ;)




Chemical-structures-of-bath-salts-cathinones-and-their-next-generation-replacement.jpgdownload.jpg
 
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psychetool said:
I don't know shit about chemistry unfortunately, but I can tell real MDMA from bath salt bullshit 10/10. It's real sad to hear they can beat the marquis test.....
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It appears to not only beat marquis.. But NMR, GC/MS and MANY other tests MUCH more accurate then marquis. Its is the some molecular weight as MDMA
 
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vecktor said:
I can,

It looks to me that you, like others are cluelessly overcomplicating things for whatever reason. There is an old saying, All the gear no idea.

first get a 1H spectrum then 2 get a 13C spectrum THEN do 2d hetcor of some flavor.

do it all in D6 DMSO so you see the amine protons.

Post the spectrum, or the FID file or better post the capture folder then anyone with Mestrelab can process it.

otherwise you are wasting everyones time.
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4NMR .
He said he says he sees a broad peaks at 9 which can only be the amide which means the C=O wasnt touched
 

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vecktor said:
quick glance suggests that proton is _H_C(O)-N in N-formyl, showing strong broadening hinting it is near a nitrogen.

is this a definitive Meh sample?
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Definitely meh virgin did not have pupils go big. LARGE amounts were needed to feel anything
 
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What precousers were used in the sample. If its coming from the BMK route alot of dutch labs have been using this route in recent years with major 500 tons of it seized last year in the netherlands. If it is then im pretty sure all the BMK routes are making MEH mdma cause i know forsure my mdma is made from pmk glycidate and its always magic loving and healing.
 
TripSitterNZ said:
What precousers were used in the sample. If its coming from the BMK route alot of dutch labs have been using this route in recent years with major 500 tons of it seized last year in the netherlands. If it is then im pretty sure all the BMK routes are making MEH mdma cause i know forsure my mdma is made from pmk glycidate and its always magic loving and healing.
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safrole to MDP2P...

I have never heard of using BMK to get to MDMA.. BMK leads to meth or amph... you are missing a MD ring with BMK

Benzyl methyl ketone, synonymous of phenylacetone

Synthetic drugs can be produced using a number of different production techniques, involving a range of different chemical precursor substances. The precursors needed to make amphetamine and methamphetamine overlap significantly, but are distinct from the precursors used to make MDMA. In Europe, and indeed globally, amphetamine is most frequently synthesised from benzyl methyl ketone (BMK) (). To make methamphetamine, although BMK may also be used, ephedrine and pseudoephedrine are more common. MDMA is primarily produced from piperonyl methyl ketone (PMK), which can also be produced from safrole (or oils rich in safrole) and piperonal (see Figure 6.2).


Drug markets | www.emcdda.europa.eu

www.emcdda.europa.eu www.emcdda.europa.eu
 
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woweeee checking out the thread here and reading what is going on after years out of the drug scene,
and I dont know even half as much chemistry, as most of the people on the last page (proper boffins!)
BUT I could decipher and innerstand if I read it, SURE,

And what I can glean from it - this "MDMA" being hard to discern even using GC/MS? :O oh shittt! no wonder people are raving about it trying to fix it, a chemist nerd's wet dream. :p

THis just goes to show, fuck synthetic drugs. lol seriously, they're more trouble than they're worth. sex and dmt and mushrooms will suffice. heehee
 
sh1vambuDancer said:
woweeee checking out the thread here and reading what is going on after years out of the drug scene,
and I dont know even half as much chemistry, as most of the people on the last page (proper boffins!)
BUT I could decipher and innerstand if I read it, SURE,

And what I can glean from it - this "MDMA" being hard to discern even using GC/MS? :O oh shittt! no wonder people are raving about it trying to fix it, a chemist nerd's wet dream. :p

THis just goes to show, fuck synthetic drugs. lol seriously, they're more trouble than they're worth. sex and dmt and mushrooms will suffice. heehee
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this "MDMA" being hard to discern even using GC/MS

Yes and NMR, and MALDI mass spectrometry, matrix-assisted laser desorption/ionization

My friend had to retest and look WITH NMR because even he was fooled...
 
So, @vash445, at this point, your friend can see an obvious difference between a standard MDMA result and this product, but there are no known matches in the database to identify what this product is?
 
indigoaura said:
So, @vash445, at this point, your friend can see an obvious difference between a standard MDMA result and this product, but there are no known matches in the database to identify what this product is?
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@vecktor has figured it out... at least from this batch
quick glance suggests that proton is _H_C(O)-N in N-formyl, showing strong broadening hinting it is near a nitrogen.


My friends guess is
He said he says he sees a broad peaks at 9 which can only be the amide which means the C=O wasnt touched which matches up to what Vecktor said, "_H_C(O)-N"
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SO what we know so far precursor doesn't matter so much as skill of chemist. A product may say MDMA but might not have the graphs to properly identify it so it just says MDMA good enough... At this point we need a couple of meh and magic to really discern but this blows everything wide open...

This product reacts to MMM. and turns the appropriate black color and can pretty much discern all tests...
 
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@vecktor @vash445 So, is _H_C(O)-N in N-formyl the unidentified compound that is masquerading as MDMA in this sample, or it is just one component of the unidentified compound?
 
Also, I just want to clearly understand what this testing is revealing. Is there any MDMA in the sample at all, or is it ALL a botched product? Is the issue a contaminant or is the issue that the "MDMA" is messed up?
 
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