What is wrong with the MDMA available today? - v2

[Negi]

yeah, no lab tests. i do know what i was sold though.

I assumed it was cheaper and that would be why it was substituted.

Without a lab test how do you know? Are you relying on reagents? As for price, MDMA is significantly cheaper than any of the X-(M)APB's I can see.

Edit: removed prices

 

[indigoaura]

This may be somewhat relevant to readers here, although a bit of an offshoot from the primary conversation.

Oxytocin has come up multiple times throughout our discussion.

I requested a prescription for intranasal Oxytocin and had it compounded by a local pharmacy. I have tried it quite a few times now.

I was curious if there would be some vague connection to MDMA that I could identify.

Intranasal oxytocin by itself does not seem to contain the euphoric effects or connectivity of MDMA. I would question whether it was active or not, but I do experience some very specific, obvious, physical effects that let me know the oxytocin is active. (Don't really want to be specific about this, as it is kinda TMI.) There is a very general sense of well-being that occurs, but it is subtle.

Obviously, there are a lot of questions about whether intranasal Oxytocin is similar enough to the Oxytocin release caused by MDMA to even be comparable. I have not researched that a lot, so I do not currently know.

In any case, just thought I would share the anecdote here. I would really like to develop a better understanding of which hormonal/neurochemical releases are responsible for which MDMA effects.

 

[Negi]

No need for reagents this time or lab test's. The info i was told has always been correct. I have never needed a test kt tbh.

"It was obviously a lie when I was sold it as MDA, but guaranteed to be the true when I was told it was 6-APB". Did they person who told you this have it lab tested?

Not to mention one of the batches of MDA was an orange powder and looked like APB aswell lol.

Ah yes staring at powder, the most effective identification method.

Once again, to quote the very first page of this thread:

We are specifically discussing MDMA that has been sent to a lab (such as Energy Control or Drugs Data), tested with some form of GCMS or other lab testing, found to be MDMA, but presents with a different effects profile than typical MDMA. We are not discussing un-tested product that could be anything or contain any adulterant.

 

[unodelacosa]

Do apologise for not reading the topic before posting.

To be fair, specific off-topic restrictions perhaps should be specified in the title when possible if we're going to expect these parameters to be self-governed in an open forum. It's polite of you to apologise, but in my humble opinion, it's understandable why you and many others have left comments suggesting the drug in question may not be MDMA. This is because—maybe it's just my skeptical nature, but—I do not have confidence the aforementioned drug identification labs are sufficiently skilled and equipped to provide accurate results to customers, and the fact that there is an attached profit incentive for said labs certainly does nothing to bolster my confidence either. It's natural to question the validity of the MDMA, as it's evident, if counterintuitive, that we cannot yet rule out flaws in the testing facilities.

[…] to quote the […] first page

We are specifically discussing MDMA that has been sent to a lab (such as Energy Control or Drugs Data), tested with some form of GCMS or other lab testing, found to be MDMA,

"Found to be MDMA" … ← does this therefore disqualify results that returned with some percentage of unidentified compounds?

I understand what the intention here was, but I think its effect limits the conversation. But then, that shit's not up to me, and who cares what I think anyway? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[indigoaura]

"Found to be MDMA" … ← does this therefore disqualify results that returned with some percentage of unidentified compounds?

Make an alternative suggestion for how to re-phrase it, and I will happily alter the post.

My intent was to express that the compounds in question were not identified as meth, MDA, heroin, or any of the other commonly tested for compounds.

Here in the USA, Drugs Data is the leading lab and they do not provide percentages at all. All they provide as a result is "MDMA." You don't ever know what the purity was or what percentage of the sample was not MDMA.

So, in other words, if you sent your product to a lab and the lab said it was MDMA, but it does not have the effects profile you would expect from MDMA, then that is the type of situation we are particularly interested in.

In the earlier thread, we had a lot of posters who just came on and said the same things over and over. IE - "You probably just got meth instead." I was trying to clarify that we are not talking about untested samples; we are talking about samples that SHOULD be MDMA according to a lab, but are not producing MDMA like effects.

 

[moonyham]

I got 1.5g mdma in the form of large chunks of tan crystal. I tested it with one of glass liquid kits and it signalled it was strong MDMA.

It looks like MDMA. It smells/tastes like MDMA. It crushes like MDMA.

But the high is not what I remember. I used to do a lot of 'ecstacy' through 2007-2012. Sometimes it wasn't MDMA, sometimes it was. Usually it was mephodrone(?) when it wasn't MDMA.

BUT I'll tell you what, no pressed pill, nor mdma gel cap ever had such a.. Mild experience to this stuff I've had.

I don't even know if I have 'energy'. It feels like.. Like a half arsed MDMA? It kinda feels like those times years ago but its so mild. My pupils are big but not full on crazy shark eyes like i used to get but my eyes weren't always huge back then too so that's hard to judge.

I dosed myself 120mg + 100mg 2hrs later.

I never dosed caps or anything back in the day or even opened them to visually get an idea of crystal volume, and didn't ever ask what mg of MDMA was in them. Reading online it seemed 100-150mg was an 'average' doss?

I wanted to err on the side of caution but felt I should feel more from this from this dose?

Interestingly too my girl, a very sober person, having smoked weed 3 times in her life and only rarely would have even just one glass of wine, did some of this MDMA too. Im 75kg she's 55kg. I gave her 60mg.

We both enjoyed touching each other and sex was really good, definitely 'enhanced', but it wasn't that insanely magical sex I remember, not even close. Tactile/touching felt good but only maybe 25-50% better, nothing crazy.


So i guess the question is, am I just not going high enough on the dose?

Is this some fake mdma that can pass those liquid test kits(is that a thing?)

Is my mental state just so different from when I was 18-22yo, that I'm not getting the same 'buzz'. For example I had an insatiable sex drive at that age and could already go hard until the sun comes up, having came dozens of times, without any drugs in my system. Im far from that level now, where one or two bouts of sex a day is enough for me.

Is it a deficiency me and my girl both share as we eat almost all the same food? Is there a mineral or vitamin you can be low in that might dull the effects of genuine MDMA?

Also hello again blue light! I joined this forum in 2007 which feels like a long time ago now. I have had so much life experience between now and then it's entertaining reading my own posts to myself from a decade ago.

 

[PsychedelicSummer]

You're not alone... https://bluelight.org/xf/threads/what-is-wrong-with-the-mdma-available-today-v2.895430/

 

[F.U.B.A.R.]

This all sounds strangely familiar...

 

[Nas47]

Wish i taste this new modern mdma.Last time that i had to ingest was about may be more than ten years.Blue dove,pink superman,white cherries....and so on.It was great then really.Cant say a bad word.Have only real good memories about it

 

[moonyham]

You're not alone... https://bluelight.org/xf/threads/what-is-wrong-with-the-mdma-available-today-v2.895430/

Ah man. This world fucking sucks.

 

[moonyham]

I made a thread about my experience before seeing this. I'm gutted. 'They' fucked with mdma!! God damn it. Glad I only bought a gram. I'm in New Zealand, so this meh-dma is spreading as far as down here.

I'm going to educate all my mates who very occasionally take mdma but have complained about inconsistency. Imo, the short of it is, regent testing is a start but you physically need to test a dose yourself to actually see if it's real and to me, reading the stuff in here, your eyes will be saucers and you'll have energy to dance. Short of that, it's meh-dma.

 

[G_Chem]

There’s good stuff out there, it’s just less common these days it seems. Also 60mg for your girl is a light dose even with pure product.

How does the product look? Is it a nice clear or at least white crystal? Or is there coloration? Are there evidence of nice crystal formation or just chunks of rocks/powder?

We got someone on here from NZ that claims good product. I still get amazing stuff and been using MDMA a good long while too. Just gotta look a bit.

-GC

 

[moonyham]

There’s good stuff out there, it’s just less common these days it seems. Also 60mg for your girl is a light dose even with pure product.

How does the product look? Is it a nice clear or at least white crystal? Or is there coloration? Are there evidence of nice crystal formation or just chunks of rocks/powder?

We got someone on here from NZ that claims good product. I still get amazing stuff and been using MDMA a good long while too. Just gotta look a bit.

-GC

I definitely erred on the side of caution for her as she's extremely sensitive to weed and alcohol.

The crystals are clearly formed/look like real natural forming crystals with a bunch of different structures connected.

The colour is tan, with it darker at the bottom of the crystal and lighter at the top, almost going clear compared to the bottom being a lot more brown.

I have heard of people getting good mdma in recent years, it's definitely here in nz. Finding it is another story. I worked at a bar 2-3 years ago and regularly had people clearly on the good stuff.

I really wanted to show my girl this amazing drug, sucks I can't do that.

 

[indigoaura]

I made a thread about my experience before seeing this. I'm gutted. 'They' fucked with mdma!! God damn it. Glad I only bought a gram. I'm in New Zealand, so this meh-dma is spreading as far as down here.

I'm going to educate all my mates who very occasionally take mdma but have complained about inconsistency. Imo, the short of it is, regent testing is a start but you physically need to test a dose yourself to actually see if it's real and to me, reading the stuff in here, your eyes will be saucers and you'll have energy to dance. Short of that, it's meh-dma.

We have another poster from NZ. He did not encounter sub-par MDMA until recently. Have your experiences been good overall up until this recent batch? I am just curious if NZ perhaps has been a bit insulated from this phenomenon.

Take what I say with a grain of salt, as I have used MDMA for 22 years and there may be tolerance issues at play for me. However, it seems to me like you need to regent test, lab test, and personally test. For safety reasons, I would not consume product that was not lab and regent tested; fentanyl and similar adulterants are too much of a concern. However, I have recently seen MDMA that lab tested good but regent tested questionably, and it produced some very negative physical effects. I have also seen product that regent tested good, but came back with adulterants with lab testing. At this point, I need to see a positive MDMA result from both the regent and the lab before I proceed with a personal test. And yeah, even then, mileage may vary.

At this point, I am really hoping that the impending legalization of MDMA for PTSD will lift enough restrictions that some very well made product will make its way to the USA market.

 

[indigoaura]

I got 1.5g mdma in the form of large chunks of tan crystal. I tested it with one of glass liquid kits and it signalled it was strong MDMA.

It looks like MDMA. It smells/tastes like MDMA. It crushes like MDMA.

But the high is not what I remember. I used to do a lot of 'ecstacy' through 2007-2012. Sometimes it wasn't MDMA, sometimes it was. Usually it was mephodrone(?) when it wasn't MDMA.

BUT I'll tell you what, no pressed pill, nor mdma gel cap ever had such a.. Mild experience to this stuff I've had.

I don't even know if I have 'energy'. It feels like.. Like a half arsed MDMA? It kinda feels like those times years ago but its so mild. My pupils are big but not full on crazy shark eyes like i used to get but my eyes weren't always huge back then too so that's hard to judge.

I dosed myself 120mg + 100mg 2hrs later.

I never dosed caps or anything back in the day or even opened them to visually get an idea of crystal volume, and didn't ever ask what mg of MDMA was in them. Reading online it seemed 100-150mg was an 'average' doss?

I wanted to err on the side of caution but felt I should feel more from this from this dose?

Interestingly too my girl, a very sober person, having smoked weed 3 times in her life and only rarely would have even just one glass of wine, did some of this MDMA too. Im 75kg she's 55kg. I gave her 60mg.

We both enjoyed touching each other and sex was really good, definitely 'enhanced', but it wasn't that insanely magical sex I remember, not even close. Tactile/touching felt good but only maybe 25-50% better, nothing crazy.


So i guess the question is, am I just not going high enough on the dose?

Is this some fake mdma that can pass those liquid test kits(is that a thing?)

Is my mental state just so different from when I was 18-22yo, that I'm not getting the same 'buzz'. For example I had an insatiable sex drive at that age and could already go hard until the sun comes up, having came dozens of times, without any drugs in my system. Im far from that level now, where one or two bouts of sex a day is enough for me.

Is it a deficiency me and my girl both share as we eat almost all the same food? Is there a mineral or vitamin you can be low in that might dull the effects of genuine MDMA?

Also hello again blue light! I joined this forum in 2007 which feels like a long time ago now. I have had so much life experience between now and then it's entertaining reading my own posts to myself from a decade ago.

Glad that you posted, because us "old timers" that try to whistle blow on this issue have to contend with the "loss of magic" retort. But, like you, I have seen MDMA virgins have sub-par results. I know it is not just me. Is your girl a MDMA virgin?

 

[unodelacosa]

Make an alternative suggestion for how to re-phrase it, and I will happily alter the post.

No, that's not my point; the wording is fine. Not just playing semantics here; my point is: unidentified compounds = inclusive data. So saying the lab "found MDMA" doesn't have as much significance as it first seems.

At this point, I am really hoping that the impending legalization of MDMA for PTSD will lift enough restrictions that some very well made product will make its way to the USA market.

I was thinking the same thing. Hopefully that will put to rest the debate about whether it's the user or the drug that is different in cases of "meh". Assuming it isn't the user, this means it's either an impurity that makes it through some widely adopted clandestine production process to the end product, or it's a deliberately added cut that serves to block, blunt, and/or morph the effects of MDMA into something much less pleasant. So the question is: how can we get to the bottom of this and what can be done to remedy the problem?

 

[indigoaura]

So saying the lab "found MDMA" doesn't have as much significance as it first seems

Well, that is part of the point. Even if a lab tells you that your product is MDMA, that does not necessarily mean what you think it means.

During the years that I was using MDMA regularly, the common understanding was that lab analysis was the be all and end all in terms of drug identification. You either had MDMA and it produced the desired effects, or you did not have MDMA at all (DXM or some other total adulterant).

If you wanted to be safe, you used a testing kit. If you wanted to be certain, you used a lab.

It is just not as cut and dry as that. No, the lab does not seem to have as much significance as I once perceived.

But to be clear, I DO think the lab can tell the difference between meth and MDMA. I DO think the lab can tell the difference between MDA and MDMA. However, I think there are far too many chemicals out there for the lab to own the standard for everything. From the various articles published that are related to law enforcement seizures and tracking synth byproducts, I also see that identifying some of these synth byproducts with overlapping peaks is incredibly difficult and complicated. That is not what the harm reduction labs are set up for.

Hopefully that will put to rest the debate about whether it's the user or the drug that is different in cases of "meh".

I am going to try to sign up for a research study. If I have any luck, I will let all of you know.

What do you make of reports from people like @moonyham where an experienced user AND an MDMA virgin use the same MDMA and neither one has a typical MDMA experience? You would think the MDMA virgin would roll like crazy and the experienced user would not if it was truly a user tolerance issue.

 

[indigoaura]

I got 1.5g mdma in the form of large chunks of tan crystal. I tested it with one of glass liquid kits and it signalled it was strong MDMA.

It looks like MDMA. It smells/tastes like MDMA. It crushes like MDMA.

But the high is not what I remember. I used to do a lot of 'ecstacy' through 2007-2012. Sometimes it wasn't MDMA, sometimes it was. Usually it was mephodrone(?) when it wasn't MDMA.

BUT I'll tell you what, no pressed pill, nor mdma gel cap ever had such a.. Mild experience to this stuff I've had.

I don't even know if I have 'energy'. It feels like.. Like a half arsed MDMA? It kinda feels like those times years ago but its so mild. My pupils are big but not full on crazy shark eyes like i used to get but my eyes weren't always huge back then too so that's hard to judge.

I dosed myself 120mg + 100mg 2hrs later.

I never dosed caps or anything back in the day or even opened them to visually get an idea of crystal volume, and didn't ever ask what mg of MDMA was in them. Reading online it seemed 100-150mg was an 'average' doss?

I wanted to err on the side of caution but felt I should feel more from this from this dose?

Interestingly too my girl, a very sober person, having smoked weed 3 times in her life and only rarely would have even just one glass of wine, did some of this MDMA too. Im 75kg she's 55kg. I gave her 60mg.

We both enjoyed touching each other and sex was really good, definitely 'enhanced', but it wasn't that insanely magical sex I remember, not even close. Tactile/touching felt good but only maybe 25-50% better, nothing crazy.


So i guess the question is, am I just not going high enough on the dose?

Is this some fake mdma that can pass those liquid test kits(is that a thing?)

Is my mental state just so different from when I was 18-22yo, that I'm not getting the same 'buzz'. For example I had an insatiable sex drive at that age and could already go hard until the sun comes up, having came dozens of times, without any drugs in my system. Im far from that level now, where one or two bouts of sex a day is enough for me.

Is it a deficiency me and my girl both share as we eat almost all the same food? Is there a mineral or vitamin you can be low in that might dull the effects of genuine MDMA?

Also hello again blue light! I joined this forum in 2007 which feels like a long time ago now. I have had so much life experience between now and then it's entertaining reading my own posts to myself from a decade ago.

I wanted to add a few more comments and questions.

Your experience lines up with my experiences.

I had a very reliable supplier of pills from 2000 to around 2005 and then he retired. I started getting crystal or powder after that from different people, and it just never hit the same way. I have tried and tried to figure it out. Like you, I have also seen people who have never done MDMA and are still unimpressed with this product. It looks good on regent testing and on lab testing.

Like you mentioned, the tactile enhancement is greatly reduced. This is a key component. Auditory enhancement is also reduced. Sensual/sexual enhancement is reduced. Overall euphoria/empathy are reduced.

Your idea about a shared deficiency is interesting. That could make sense for me and my partner, as we also both eat the same diet and we both have some food restrictions due to sensitivities. But, that would not explain other people I have seen who have not been impressed with the meh product.

I have tried higher doses with no luck. Higher doses only seem to cause sickness for me. I tried 200 mg dissolved in water and it did not improve the experience at all. Wish I had better news.

If you don't mind me asking, how old are you both? What is your history of MDMA use? What is hers? Have you used other psychedelics? Did either of you have a comedown or blue Tuesday after this roll? How long did the roll last?

 

[indigoaura]

Dark Classics in Chemical Neuroscience: 3,4-Methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA) - PMC

Better known as “ecstasy,” 3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA) is a small molecule that has played a prominent role in defining the ethos of today’s teenagers and young adults, much like lysergic acid diethylamide (LSD) did in the 1960s. Though ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Inhibitors of SERT, DAT, and NET completely prevent MDMA-induced monoamine efflux in rat brain slices, and from monoamine transporter-expressing HEK293 cells pre-loaded with radiolabeled monoamines.

Furthermore, MDMA is unable to displace radiolabeled monoamine transporter inhibitors despite exhibiting nM potency in functional assays (Tables 1–4), which is consistent with its proposed role as a monoamine releaser rather than a competitive uptake inhibitor.

Good overview of MDMA here, including synthesis and effects. They comment, again, that MDMA cannot displace transporter inhibitors, and that inhibitors block the effects of MDMA.

 

[unodelacosa]

What do you make of reports from people like @moonyham where an experienced user AND an MDMA virgin use the same MDMA and neither one has a typical MDMA experience?

Sounds like it wasn't MDMA then.

You would think the MDMA virgin would roll like crazy and the experienced user would not if it was truly a user tolerance issue.

I've never given a ton of merit to the user tolerance issue so if you're addressing me directly with this question, you're preaching to the proverbial choir, as it were.