What is wrong with the MDMA available today? - v2

[unodelacosa]

Edit: never mind. Can't please everyone. I don't know why I try sometimes. Two tears in a bucket.

 

[FrogFrogFrog]

Well, Biscuit was talking that we may not know the whole story, as chirality is rarely considered and real world samples are rarely analyzed using methods which are sensitive to chirality.
Unodelacosa replied with a long post, which was passive aggressive, and also incorrect / misleading right from the beginning:

Studies like this have been conducted in the past. Relevant links:

but the 3 links which followed were all irrelevant, as all of them completely ignored chirality... or actually relevant, as they actually showed exactly what Biscuit was saying, that chirality is too often just totally ignored. Not studied, and not even mentioned... two of the links were science papers and in both, words like "chirality", "enantiomer", "isomer" occur zero times ...
Similar issue like with methamphetamine, where the differences between effects of the enantiomers are very drastic, as levo is a very strong vasoconstrictor even at sub milligram doses.

 

[Frazzled1990]

It's not uncommon for modern day MDMA to be heavily cut with Ketamine or other sedatives creating a less energetic but more spaced out experience. There's also the risk of it not being MDMA at all, but PMA. Which has a delayed onset compared to MDMA, but is far more toxic and increases the risk of overdose in those who think they simply have weak MDMA pills due to the delayed onset of effects. Although far less common, there's the risk of cross contamination with Fentanyl if the pills have been produced in poor conditions.

 

[Negi]

It's not uncommon for modern day MDMA to be heavily cut with Ketamine or other sedatives creating a less energetic but more spaced out experience. There's also the risk of it not being MDMA at all, but PMA. Which has a delayed onset compared to MDMA, but is far more toxic and increases the risk of overdose in those who think they simply have weak MDMA pills due to the delayed onset of effects. Although far less common, there's the risk of cross contamination with Fentanyl if the pills have been produced in poor conditions.

I guess I get to be the guy who taps the sign. From the post titled: Please read this first, before posting to the thread “What is Wrong with the MDMA Available Today?”

• We are specifically discussing MDMA that has been sent to a lab (such as Energy Control or Drugs Data), tested with some form of GCMS or other lab testing, found to be MDMA, but presents with a different effects profile than typical MDMA. We are not discussing un-tested product that could be anything or contain any adulterant.

 

[Skippwiggins]

I had MDMA 14 years ago as a teenager that was so magical. I mean magical.

Ive had high purity mdma about a year ago that felt nothing like it. Euphoric with no magic. Slightly sedative. No comparison.

In my whole life I've done MDMA maybe 5 times while I've done MDA about 25 times.

I thought maybe there was a cross tolerance to IV methamphetamine but I think its far deeper than that now after reading this thread.

I should note that I had not used a single drug but methadone and gabapentin for two full years before trying that high purity magic lacking mdma.

If this is all that will ever be pumped out then the true mdma will never been known or remembered.

 

[Jmoda]

its well known in international drug scene califorina has shit fucking mdma.

Wrong, if true.


Also, feels like we just keep going in circles. Didn’t we basically determine the isomer ratios likely isn’t it, based on the historical results with the isomer breakdowns? Yes it will affect the roll, but not in any significant way to turn magic -> meh.

The MDDMA hypothesis still feels the strongest to me by a long shot.

But none of this matters because all our data collectively is fucking shit and without the data, we won’t find the answer.

 

[Negi]

I had MDMA 14 years ago as a teenager that was so magical. I mean magical.

Ive had high purity mdma about a year ago that felt nothing like it. Euphoric with no magic. Slightly sedative. No comparison.

In my whole life I've done MDMA maybe 5 times while I've done MDA about 25 times.

I thought maybe there was a cross tolerance to IV methamphetamine but I think its far deeper than that now after reading this thread.

I should note that I had not used a single drug but methadone and gabapentin for two full years before trying that high purity magic lacking mdma.

If this is all that will ever be pumped out then the true mdma will never been known or remembered.

Do you have reports from anyone else who tried the same MDMA? You say you it was euphoric with no magic, what does the "magic" of MDMA mean to you? Do you mean it was lacking the pro-social and empathogenic effects? Did it still have the tactile touchy-feely quality? What the euphoria the same as previous experiences?

 

[tired of crap]

Edit: redacted melodrama and petty squabbling, pissing contests, and wasted energy, etc. My bad; sorry about that!I forgot and was taking life too seriously again. Old habits.

Like Bill Hicks said: this is just a ride and we're all really the same one soul. Today a young man on acid realized that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively, that there is no such thing as death, life is just a dream and we're the imagination of ourselves. Here's Tom with the weather.

Bill Hicks also said:
"I need my sleep. I need about eight hours a day, and about ten at night."

Mitch Hedberg, also, said:
"I used to do drugs. I still do but I used to too"
....
need I go on?

 

[nznity]

There's still magic around. Without magic there wouldn't be any good raves tbh. But the scenes going stronger rhsn ever even with the pandemic.
So there's plenty of MAGIC still around.

 

[Jmoda]

I

There's still magic around. Without magic there wouldn't be any good raves tbh. But the scenes going stronger rhsn ever even with the pandemic.
So there's plenty of MAGIC still around.

I don’t know that I agree with this statement. Non magic mdma can still produce a euphoric high (for some) it’s just not as good. It, at least in my experience, is like a wall hits you on the come up and up until the 2h mark when then things fall off noticeably sharply.

To me, the difference is almost like meh/med floods things all at once. Magic spaces it out better and just hits the sweet spots well into 4h/5h mark. Like even when you’re “barely rolling” you’re still in “the zone” vs meh/med stuff takes me noticeably out of that zone after 2h.

That being said, I could still have plenty fun at shows, as I’m sure many others can at well, on the meh/med stuff. So my point is, that’s not really conclusive to “magic” product being everywhere. Now, I do think a telltale sign would be how often people redose and how much product people use. If we get average mgs or number or redose statistics per show, that might point to what I’m talking about.

 

[nznity]

I

I don’t know that I agree with this statement. Non magic mdma can still produce a euphoric high (for some) it’s just not as good. It, at least in my experience, is like a wall hits you on the come up and up until the 2h mark when then things fall off noticeably sharply.

To me, the difference is almost like meh/med floods things all at once. Magic spaces it out better and just hits the sweet spots well into 4h/5h mark. Like even when you’re “barely rolling” you’re still in “the zone” vs meh/med stuff takes me noticeably out of that zone after 2h.

That being said, I could still have plenty fun at shows, as I’m sure many others can at well, on the meh/med stuff. So my point is, that’s not really conclusive to “magic” product being everywhere. Now, I do think a telltale sign would be how often people redose and how much product people use. If we get average mgs or number or redose statistics per show, that might point to what I’m talking about.

You're just jelly that there's better mdma in southamerica than in your área. Or maybe just your contacts are shit.... but there's a lot of fucking outstsndinh mdma....plus If you've rolled a fair amount of times u can tell right away if the stuff that your liver is processing Is garbage meh or mdma.

 

[Negi]

I don’t know that I agree with this statement. Non magic mdma can still produce a euphoric high (for some) it’s just not as good. It, at least in my experience, is like a wall hits you on the come up and up until the 2h mark when then things fall off noticeably sharply.

To me, the difference is almost like meh/med floods things all at once. Magic spaces it out better and just hits the sweet spots well into 4h/5h mark. Like even when you’re “barely rolling” you’re still in “the zone” vs meh/med stuff takes me noticeably out of that zone after 2h.

That being said, I could still have plenty fun at shows, as I’m sure many others can at well, on the meh/med stuff. So my point is, that’s not really conclusive to “magic” product being everywhere. Now, I do think a telltale sign would be how often people redose and how much product people use. If we get average mgs or number or redose statistics per show, that might point to what I’m talking about.

That would also be a direct and telltale sign of people who had abused MDMA, "lost the magic", and were taking more to try and maintain some effects.

In regards to how much meh vs magic is out there, what is your experience?

When did you first encounter "mehDMA"?

Have you been able to reliably source "magic" MDMA since first taking "mehDMA"?

 

[maddee2145]

'm not so sure of this. I've heard people complain about the "losing the magic" for many, many years, at least as early as 2000.

Yea I tryed my 1st mdma pill back in 2014 and since 2017 everything changed for me. The big and mighty Tolerance kicked in. I making larger breaks and it does help just a little.

Yes you can call it "racemat proportion failure" or "Sasafrol to PMK substitution consequences" , but it doesn't cancel your tolerance...sadly


Also from many many mdma trips I had, the truly magical is maybe 2 or 3 from them and I bet it is not because those 3 times there was Sasafrol made mdma...nope

This was a very very special setting and my body full of serotonin after a long walking sessions at the air (physical activity greatly matters before mdma trip)

For anyone who "lost magick" or those who want to feel magick now just increase your serotonin level natural way before trip.

1. get more exercises
2. get more sunlight
3. feed well

for example taking a bicycle ride in forest is a great idea . You even dont need mdma to feel good after that lol

Yes mdma like healthy body full of naturally produced serotonin

 

[Jmoda]

That would also be a direct and telltale sign of people who had abused MDMA, "lost the magic", and were taking more to try and maintain some effects.

In regards to how much meh vs magic is out there, what is your experience?

When did you first encounter "mehDMA"?

Have you been able to reliably source "magic" MDMA since first taking "mehDMA"?

For me interestingly it was a year thing. From 2006-2008, the rolls noticeably dropped off at the 2 hour mark and we would always pop another pill around then, but to me, this is all I knew and it was amazing! (only rolled in total a small handful of times during this period). Then gap years of no rolling.

I want to say from 2011-2013 then the product that I was getting was amazing (tho in retrospect not as amazing as the stuff now), was rolling a bunch during this time, maybe once every month or so. It was noticeably so much better than back in 06-08, 1+booster seemed to get you just on a constant upward shooting rocket for 4h (we stupidly at this time abused it tho, we’re younger and more reckless and just wanted to keep going all night)

Starting around 2014, the product we got had taken a noticeable decline. All of a sudden, at the two hour mark there would be this extremely noticeable drop off and basically took you out of what I can only describe as “the zone”, like we would still be clearly fucked up, but it was different, irritable, moreish, and felt like a switch in our brains that was previously on “satisfied” mode was turned off. It made you want to redose. I thought this was maybe due to the fact that the product we had been getting was from canada, but alas when we had a buddy who got it from the Netherlands, it was the same thing as well. It kind of drove me crazy, even tho the tests indicated it was, I just could not believe it was the same.

Fast forward to today and we have some really amazing product on our hands. The roll just keeps you in the zone for a full 4-5h, and you can actually understand why it’s called “rolling”. If you do not understand, then you have never had this level of product, simple as that. Rolling waves of euphoria, but even at the low ends, you never leave the zone. No real serious thoughts to redose beyond the 1+half booster, which is completely different from before where you would feel an urge to take more and more.

One of my friends has also tried both samples and the conclusion was the same, notably you could see the difference (I hadn’t explained to him about any of the points above, just observed behavior). The meh product after two hours he was just done and ready to go home. On the magic stuff he was down to party the full time. He isn’t the only one, back when we started noticing the dip down, it was pretty universal for my friends and i. And now with the magic stuff, people have commented how it’s the best they’ve ever had and was mind blowing how different the experiences could be.

Availability is a bit hard to say, I don’t really know any dealers or anything and my friends generally have stashed that last a while. That being said, from the anecdotes that I’ve been seeing it seems like more recently the truly magic stuff is around.

I should note that I don’t really have a loss of magic. Either product still allows us to roll, but the meh stuff feels like a super rushy comeup, then you hit peak and get blasted with a wall of euphoria for about an hour and then at the two hour mark the noticeable decline. No rolling waves of euphoria, just a massive wall.

I’ve also tried piracetam with the meh stuff, it does seem to alleviate some of the drop off feel and you feel the “zone” more amplified, but unfortunately for me piracetam completely blunts the physical euphoria. That being said I’m so thankful to have come across the true magic stuff we have now. It’s just head and shoulders a better experience. I imagine people like g_chem and nz are having such similar experiences from what they describe so it’s out there, but moreso is the meh/med it seems.

This has gotten long but I will also throw out there that 5mapb gives a more satisfying time than the meh stuff. It similarly to the magic stuff lasts the full 4-5h, of course it’s more like cruising at 60mph rather than the pedal to floor of mdma, but the consistency and feeling as if some switch in your brain is on “satisfied”, the whole time is the difference.

 

[Jmoda]

You're just jelly that there's better mdma in southamerica than in your área. Or maybe just your contacts are shit.... but there's a lot of fucking outstsndinh mdma....plus If you've rolled a fair amount of times u can tell right away if the stuff that your liver is processing Is garbage meh or mdma.

Not sure why this is turning into a pissing match for you. Also I don’t have a reason to be jealous. We have amazing stuff around right now. Better than we’ve ever seen; just a completely different and better experience (see above). I was just making it a point that people still do get a decent experience off of product that’s not that good; so if that is all they know then to them it’s awesome, but there is better. There’s a spectrum of a experiences that range from pretty awesome to just fucking amazing.

 

[Kaden_Nite]

Lol okay Karen. You’re getting all worked up and babbling over something of which you apparently know nothing about. Haven’t sent any samples in? I sure did sweetheart. To EcstasyData.org. MDMA:1 same as all the crap I sent in. No difference in results. Where have you been? You want to call bullshit on what? Your arrogance? When did you start doing ecstasy Karen? I mean since you’re so knowledgeable. What, 20 years, 30 years ago? Probably more like 5 and all of a sudden you’re gonna write a book on the subject. Open your fucking mind. Listen to what I’m saying. Don’t try and pretend you’re some knowledgeable pessimistic glass half empty kind of drug guru who just happens to write very eloquently. You’re not. Not even close. You’re just some chick online posting bullshit about something you know nothing about and trying to convince others that everything is bullshit. It’s not. The MDMA today sucks. Period. It ain’t me, it’s the shit. You live close to me Karen? I’d be half tempted to shove some of this down your throat and listen to what you have to say then. Hypothetically speaking of course. PM me if so. Back to the subject. There are markers and indicators that are visual that can easily detect new shit from old school shit. Complete pupil dilation. This is non-negotiable. If your MDMA does not dilate your pupils all the way to the outer edge of your eyeball, there is something wrong with your MDMA. Again, non-negotiable. Tactile enhancement. If tactile sensitivity is not increased 1000 fold, there is something wrong with your MDMA. Taste sensitivity. If taste sensitivity is not increased 1000 fold, there is something wrong with your MDMA. You talk about people with negative experiences on MDMA. For the first 25 years I did ecstasy of which I did it very very often and with many many others, no one ever said that. That’s weird don’t you think. The only time that ever came up was when someone did something sold to them as ecstasy that actually wasn’t. Piperazine, meth laced pills etc. But nowadays that kind of statement is commonplace. You don’t find that odd Karen? But again, you know more than I do so what the fuck am I even talking about. I can tell you that I partied like a rockstar from the mid-80s all the way until the early 2000s but you’ll just call bs so what’s the use. I’ve done more drugs than many who’ve overdosed and died over the years. Many of them my good friends including my best friend in ‘97. I started doing blow when it was an enjoyable drug and started making my own In the early 2000s once good blow became a thing of the past. I’m going to tell you this even though you obviously already know the answer…cocaine is a wonderful drug. Conversation flows like newborn Buddhas, extremely animalistic sexually, you can see for miles, a complete feeling of euphoria and a feeling of being on top of the world, better than anyone else, as good as it gets, a complete contradiction to the blow available on the streets today. I’m sure you already knew that though, right? I’m not a chemist but I learned how to make it on my own by listening to those more knowledgeable than me. Something you should probably take note of biscuit. You want to sit back in your little chair at your computer and bash on others more knowledgeable than you because you got some stick up your ass then that’s your choice. My suggestion is that you listen to what I’m saying and believe it and be a part of the solution rather than just adding to the problem. It happened to cocaine and now it’s happened to ecstasy. That’s a fact whether you want to believe it or not. I’m not going to sit here and go back-and-forth with you arguing over who knows more or who’s done more. I already know the answer. This is the last time I will engage with you. Unless you have something constructive to add to the conversation. Have a great Christmas and a happy holiday. Le Junk drops the mic.

I actually felt pretty bad reading this. Not because of the second grade insults though.

If you want to believe that there's something 'rockstar' about using coke into your 50s or that taking MDMA is synonymous with being knowledgeable about it, you keep telling yourself that.. but lashing out at others, making threats and demands because you're unable to back up claims you made or because you can't comprehend even basic principles of a topic that you brought up, that's sad. Really showing your age with some of those attempts at witty retort too.

 

[Jmoda]

I wonder how many people are actually getting APB and the likes these days and reporting the loss of magic from using an analogue lol

It seems to be quite common these days :S

I don’t know. The apbs are pretty awesome in their own right. No it’s not the full bore mdma experience, but I would think, assuming high purity, the apbs would scratch the itch for most casual users.

 

[G_Chem]

I wonder how many people are actually getting APB and the likes these days and reporting the loss of magic from using an analogue lol

It seems to be quite common these days :S

While that is a possibility from the perspective of the fact they can often fool people on certain reagents, I’ve found the APB class at least holds their own when compared to MDxx drugs. My first time with 5-MAPB felt like my first roll all over again.

-GC

 

[nznity]

How is this dinosaur of thread still alive, damn...... there is magic around and bullshit meh mdma around
All depends on ur connects but I see there's mo,re meh in Europe. Here in South America there's lots and lots of outstanding pills of all kinds, the best cocaine in the world and good mdma. Especially Argentina where rolling is more popular than drinking I think lols.

 

[Negi]

Just been ripped off myself multiple times over the last few years with ''MDA'' that turned out to be APB and MDMA that turned out to be one of the other analogues, not too sure which one but it wasn't the same as the supposed ''MDA''.

I think its becoming quite a popular rip off technique and quite common.

Were the APBs confirmed by a lab? I'm also curious what region you are in. X-(M)APB's seem to be getting much more rare recently, just based off how few are showing up on Ecstasydata. I'd be surprised if the economics and access worked out to substitute them for MDA or MDMA. I've only heard of it happening a few times, such as the unfortunate incident where artificial cannabinoid contaminated 5-MAPB was sold as MDMA at Wesleyan.