What is wrong with the MDMA available today? - v2

[AutoTripper]

i honestly believe its a good thing it might disappear from the black market. Abusing mdma is worse than abusing meth. Many people have ruined themselves consuming mdma too much. Id rather see ketamine replace the drug scene.

Ketamine isn’t likely to go away. That would be my own medicine in life right now for total release and renewal after past decades.

 

[Negi]

Many people have ruined themselves consuming mdma too much. Id rather see ketamine replace the drug scene.

You'd rather see people destroy their bladders and have to collect their urine in a bag taped to their stomach for the rest of their lives? Since you seem to be focusing only on people at the extreme ends of abuse, heavy ketamine use is not a picnic and can cause irreversible damage.

 

[Tramalala]

Abusing mdma is worse than abusing meth.

Perhaps. But MDMA doesn't lend itself to abuse as much as Methamphetamine does.

 

[TripSitterNZ]

Perhaps. But MDMA doesn't lend itself to abuse as much as Methamphetamine does.

to a degree depends on your society. in the hood i seen my mates consume mdma every day for weeks on end and ended up with years of depression

 

[unodelacosa]

Do not even bother buying pills. They are garbage. Just get the crystals right off the pan.

Nah, that’s just been your experience, bruv, doesn't mean it applies everywhere. Yes, bunk pills exist, but so do great ones. With diligence, the garbage ones are avoided. Just this year I’ve had “Gameboy” presses that were phenomenal and some “Superman” presses that reminded me of the pills from yesteryear.

You know, powder MDMA used to be the shady thing to buy. It’s easily cut by an unscrupulous dealer (just add caffeine, ascorbic acid, inositol, or whatever white powders dickheads prefer to use as a cut), whereas—aside from shaving them down—there isn’t a way to “cut” a pressed pill.

But it’s funny you said “right off the pan”. I used to manufacture MDMA shortly after that time, late 90s, early 2000s. End of my process involved me recrystallizing ~200-gram batches of vacuum-distilled and HCL-gassed MDMA in Pyrex casserole dishes where I’d have big piles of beautiful, uncut molly crystals. Talk about crystals right off the pan…

Back then, I could walk into a health food store and buy sassafras oil right off the shelf… (Not no mo’ tho.) I mean, shit, the diligent clandestine chemist could directly purchase ketone intermediates from the right chemical supply house if they had the connections to that knowledge. (You see, guys, ultimately, this is why networking is so important to achieving success in virtually any endeavor). The four words that put everything into play back then were: “amateur photography darkroom chemistry”. I studied that so I’d have plenty of reasons for why I wanted things like p-benzoquinone (“holographic prints”) and mercuric chloride (“advance film reticulation techniques”), etc.

whichever of the MD’s predominated them.

Back in the days of the-hive.ws, Strike referred to the 3,4-methylenedioxy-substituted amphetamines as “ecstasy-class stimulants”, further supporting yours and @psy997 's argument over which usage of “ecstasy” is more common, but I still maintain that a significant enough portion of MDMA users use “ecstasy” exclusively for the n-methyl variety of that drug family. Also worth noting, up to 15% of MDMA is demethylated to MDA in vivo during first-pass metabolism. If you ingest MDMA, some of the experience will be MDA. Some postulate this is why large doses of MDMA can become psychedelic.

i have it on good authority that MDMA will increasingly become rare and may soon become a drug of the past. Its already hard to find magic stuff and the little amounts of it out there is about to disappear off the face of the planet soon. The new comers will never know what the magic stuff was like. RIP mdma had some good times.

Idk about that. As @psy997 pointed out – there is more & more approved and funded research with MDMA, and moreover, it's not that complex of a molecule. Quite the opposite in fact. It's fairly rudimentary and the racemate is the prefered form. There are methods for synthesizing safrole for chrissakes. Then the performic acid epoxidation route to MDP-2-P (PMK) is so OTC, there's no practical way to stop someone determined enough from getting all the necessary reagents for the synthesis. Reductive amination has several approaches as well that are not terribly difficult to pull off clandestinely. Eventually global drug prohibition will end, starting with decriminalisation and ending with full legalization. It's just a matter of time before civilized nations begin to see how powerfully devastating drug laws are, to the point of causing much more damage—financially, emotionally, and otherwise—than the drugs themselves.

And to top it off, MDMA is way too popular; the demand is too high for it not to be supplied. Relax with all the doom and gloom. MDMA will be around. There's always someone willing to take the legal risks for that pay-off.

i honestly believe its a good thing it might disappear from the black market.

No, it is not any government's place to nanny-state its citizens. There is a boundary that exists on each of our skin. Outward from it is the external world, subject to government, laws, taxes, etc. But from the skin inward, that's entirely you, the one thing each of us actually truly can own is our own flesh and blood bodies, these talking ape meat puppets we all vehicle around and refer to as ourselves. It's entirely each person's private business what happens in their own body. It's similar to the abortion argument – women have the right to dictate what goes on in their own body. It is not a good thing at all that MDMA is illegal, and I damn sure don't need any govt. supposedly saving me from myself while they open up a market for the Mexican Cartels and other TCOs.

Abusing mdma is worse than abusing meth.

That's an opinion with zero way of being substantiated. And anyway, doesn't it depend on the degree of abuse present? It also seems more common that people develop drug problems with methamphetamine. MDMA use doesn't give way to compulsive redosing easily. Sure, ppl try, but they're just wasting drugs chasing a high that they will not get back to… but meth takes a lot longer to build up in the nucleus accumbens substantially enough to cause effect-blocking tolerance. I mean, think about it: people stay up sometimes for 4 or more days on crystal meth (not a pretty site, usually). Try that on MDMA, and not only are you fucking up various receptor sites in the brain when MAO converts MDMA into alpha-methyldopamine and causes the dendrites to atrophy in the synaptic clefts, you're also not likely to make it beyond 2 days, max.

Many people have ruined themselves consuming mdma too much. Id rather see ketamine replace the drug scene.

That doesn't make any sense. Replace the drug scene? Do you mean you want to see ketamine somehow replace MDMA? As if ketamine isn't already a super popular drug all over the drug scene. Not to mention MDMA and Ketamine are two entirely different drugs, and this would never work. Ketamine dissociates parts of the body from parts of the brain. It's a very cognitive drug that can allow the user to step out of their sensory perceptions and think differently while seeing the world in a rather disconnected way, like you're still barely tethered to the physical world. MDMA though goes deep into the body and heightens your senses in certain very specific and significant ways. It takes you in the opposite direction, allowing you to live in the moment entirely rather than step outside of the sensory world.

 

[nznity]

Ffs, there's still real mágic around it's just getting harder AND harder to get just like real coke that Is Made with Ether instead of acetone.

 

[Tramalala]

to a degree depends on your society. in the hood i seen my mates consume mdma every day for weeks on end and ended up with years of depression

Yea okay, your anecdote is not going to change the fact that Methamphetamine (or even regular amphetamine/adderall for that matter) leads to redosing and abuse more frequently than MDMA in Humans.

I've seen people take too much MDMA and get fucked up too, trust me. I'm not saying you can't fuck up your brain and/or body with MDMA because yes, enough people have shown that you definitely can. MDMA needs to be taken very seriously, like any other substance you choose to let enter your body. And like @unodelacosa said the Government doesn't need to decide for me what I can and cannot put into my body.

 

[TripSitterNZ]

Yea okay, your anecdote is not going to change the fact that Methamphetamine (or even regular amphetamine/adderall for that matter) leads to redosing and abuse more frequently than MDMA in Humans.

I've seen people take too much MDMA and get fucked up too, trust me. I'm not saying you can't fuck up your brain and/or body with MDMA because yes, enough people have shown that you definitely can. MDMA needs to be taken very seriously, like any other substance you choose to let enter your body. And like @unodelacosa said the Government doesn't need to decide for me what I can and cannot put into my body.

mdma will damage you more than a one week bender on meth. thats a straight fact.

 

[AutoTripper]

mdma will damage you more than a one week bender on meth. thats a straight fact.

And….LSD. But I took MDMA at high doses, a week or more on end, lots of times, and I say that a week’s daily heavy LSD use is much shakier mentally.

 

[AutoTripper]

@unodelacosa

I should refrase. I got extremely high off pills as a teenager. So they weren't garbage. But I had no idea why I got bad sides most of the time. Numbness of extremities, vomiting without any nausea, bad anxiety, etc.

I see it as the same as getting meth pills vs the crystal form. The latter is better imo.

Again as we talked of briefly elsewhere, for myself and all others, throughout that period of time, all “good” pills, abundant enough, (there was always shit batches too), the lack of any comedown and negative side effects was one of MDMA’s brilliant features, in press or powder form.

 

[AutoTripper]

Interesting, I'd think serotonin depletion would make one feel like shit. I think my body just cannot handle psychoactive drugs that work mostly on 5HT receptors.

Honestly, even in 2004, 2005, I was free to indulge in MDMA, and enjoy it fully, never deterred by increasingly rough comedowns, and I never claimed to have lost the magic.

My last time I took proper MDMA pills, 2005, was full magic. After 9 years well above average use.

 

[unodelacosa]

mdma will damage you more than a one week bender on meth. thats a straight fact.

You have any evidence to back that up? Because if not, than it’s just a opinionated guess. And please don’t give me any anecdotes, either, or any subjective opinions as would-be proof. I don’t think you know what you’re talking about, I suspect you’re inexperienced with meth, and also you’re not even specifying drug weights. For example, which do you really think would be worse for you: consuming 150 mg of MDMA once, or smoking an eight ball of strong crystal meth every day for a week?

Seven days straight. Its nearly an ounce of meth. With zero tolerance. This could actually even be fatal, perhaps, depending on the individual.

But if we compare the lad who took sixteen 225 mg MDMA tabs pressed as white Mitsubishis in one evening versus the lad who is reasonable about meth use and vaporizes between 100 - 250 mg of meth throughout the day, occasionally taking time off to let tolerance die down, and sleeps just about every night except for maybe some weekends here and there, dude who’s skulling sixteen disco-biscuit-sized e-pills is more than likely causing more neurotoxicity in that instance.

Which scenario do you think is more common? Your own experiences could simply be heavy on anecdotes of friends of yours abusing MDMA, but having no personal experience with meth and not knowing anyone who’s had problems with that compound, maybe you underestimate meth’s potential for chaos and life-wrecking habits and decisions. It’s pretty clear I would think to virtually any drug user that meth poses a much more serious threat than MDMA, which can’t even be used effectively multiple days in a row. Your brain needs more time to refactor serotonin first.

Meth is more likely to induce compulsive behavior pattern disorders and lead to drug dependency among other problems. And mind you: I constantly defend meth’s reputation, because the drug gets unfairly demonized. When used responsibly, with self discipline and a level-headed approach, it’s a very enjoyable and potent aphrodisiac with tons of euphoria and massive energy. But when abused, it really strings people the fuck out… in the worst case scenarios, meth abuse winds up being way worse than anything I’ve ever seen MDMA do to anyone, but these are just my personal observations over the past three decades.

 

[unodelacosa]

the lack of any comedown and negative side effects was one of MDMA’s brilliant features, in press or powder form.

MDMA definitely does not lack a harsh comedown and it definitely has always had side effects. You either remember things as being better than they were, and/or you were just younger and your body bounced back faster. Or you had some X-men-like ability to avoid MDMA hangovers, lol.

Interesting, I'd think serotonin depletion would make one feel like shit. I think my body just cannot handle psychoactive drugs that work mostly on 5HT receptors.

Bingo. Serotonin depletion definitely makes people feel like shit the next day. This has LONG been noted regarding MDMA’s effects, even back in the supposed glory-days when cats like @AutoTripper and I were just young lads. MDMA causes this effect in fucking spades.

for myself and all others

No, no, no. Speak for yourself, bruv. You’re not the spokesman for your generation, you know. Everyone I know recognized the phenomenon of Suicide Tuesday after a weekend of rolling. This was way back in the 90s, too, I’m talking about.

 

[AutoTripper]

MDMA definitely does not lack a harsh comedown and it definitely has always had side effects. You either remember things as being better than they were, and/or you were just younger and your body bounced back faster. Or you had some X-men-like ability to avoid MDMA hangovers, lol.


Bingo. Serotonin depletion definitely makes people feel like shit the next day. This has LONG been noted regarding MDMA’s effects, even back in the supposed glory-days when cats like @AutoTripper and I were just young lads. MDMA causes this effect in fucking spades.


No, no, no. Speak for yourself, bruv. You’re not the spokesman for your generation, you know. Everyone I know recognized the phenomenon of Suicide Tuesday after a weekend of rolling. This was way back in the 90s, too, I’m talking about.

I did feel those insanely intense suicide blues, Tuesday, Wednesday.

But from 2000 on, I never really experienced that strangely like I did in my earlier years.

A lot of people I knew and took (?) with regularly for years had the same feeling.

But true, I was incredibly fit, robust, infinite stamina and in prime youth so obviously that’s shive factor.

Plus individual genetics or something too possibly.

I’m not saying there was no rough edge to wild benders. But it was nothing to put me off, stop me coping with the week.

Fatigue, sleep to catch up on was the bigger challenge during work.

But I always used weed which just got me through each day.

I have had bad comedowns, but if not overly tired and well hydrated it was mostly always a fade out then feeling pretty normal but not normal.

 

[Negi]

New science just dropped: https://analyticalsciencejournals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/dta.3118

I know the thread has moved onto other theories since, but it's nice to be able to close off some old ones. Checking 97 samples seized in Germany from 2019-2020, MDMA was found to be extremely racemic.

From the old thread, we can also see that this was true in the past as well.

Batch five was seized in 2006, batch 45 in 2011.

 

[simstim]

I've long been avoiding this thread but am tripping on BOD now so why not, lol? I've been getting great pressed mdma pills for sometime. I thought so until I got some quality 3-MMC recently and rolled hard. I've been getting really sloppy high from the MDMA but really thought I was "ROLLING" from the 3-MMC. I used to be hardcore on 4-MMC. Maybe I actually preferred it to MDMA in the past. I think if you're suffering trying to roll with bad MDMA try some 3-MMC. Amazing roll.

 

[AutoTripper]

I've long been avoiding this thread but am tripping on BOD now so why not, lol? I've been getting great pressed mdma pills for sometime. I thought so until I got some quality 3-MMC recently and rolled hard. I've been getting really sloppy high from the MDMA but really thought I was "ROLLING" from the 3-MMC. I used to be hardcore on 4-MMC. Maybe I actually preferred it to MDMA in the past. I think if you're suffering trying to roll with bad MDMA try some 3-MMC. Amazing roll.

Is that the one I think, the makers or at least one, say is due to be banned in Holland this year?

I get mixed up, they send you emails telling you this will be banned, this is new in range etc.

I expect there may be other manufacturers hopefully elsewhere but it rings a bell.

1cP-LSD and the newer 1cP-AL LAD are about to be illegal in Germany, exactly 2 years after they whipped that one out when 1p was scheduled (but funnily, only for import into Germany, at the time at least, June 2019, but obviously it was unviable to run the business with it), as well as the ketamine analogue the Germans have been serving around.

Interesting summary of the pills @Negi a near even mix really, the S’s just have it as they say in parliament.


Edit….very stoned I misread, by “97 samples” I first thought 1997 lol.

Now it’s twigged. Sometimes it just takes a little piecing together to make a little misinterpretation clear.

So we’re looking at post Meh arrival date in theory depending what we believe.

So if you compared those ratios to 2000-2005, and 90’s pills, I wonder what the ratio would have been. 75% R?

 

[Negi]

So if you compared those ratios to 2000-2005, and 90’s pills, I wonder what the ratio would have been. 75% R?

It's the same.

From a 2002 Taiwanese paper:

The ratio (in peak area) of R-(-)- and S-(+)-isomers in tablets were found to be ~1. It thus appears that they are naturally present in equal amounts.

A medical case review from 1998:

The gastric fluid contained almost equal quantities of R-(-)-MDMA and S-(+)-MDMA indicating that the Ecstasy tablets contained equal amounts of the enantiomers

The answer to the thread is simple imo: Greed.

Care to elaborate?

 

[Rectify]

What Is Wrong With The MDMA Available Today?

AFAICT [As Far As I Can Tell] We Are In The Underworld Now. MDMA & LSD Still Work, But Not Nearly As Strongly As They Did In The 1990s. Just My 2 Cents.

 

[simstim]

What Is Wrong With The MDMA Available Today?

AFAICT [As Far As I Can Tell] We Are In The Underworld Now. MDMA & LSD Still Work, But Not Nearly As Strongly As They Did In The 1990s. Just My 2 Cents.

I still say if you want to roll hard again try some 3-MMC. It's not hard to find on the clearnet even. I found around a third of a gram to be a good starting dose orally. Frankly I really rolled hard. I found it very comparable to 4-MMC and was like my early MDMA experiences. I was chewing my tongue and getting spontaneous eye wiggles and that familiar heat of rolling. If you ever think MDMA lost the magic 3 or 4 MMC could be your ROLLAIDS spells relief!!!