What is wrong with the MDMA available today? - v2

[unodelacosa]

EDIT: nevermind. I'm just nitpicking your opinions, which you are more than welcome to have, rife with illogical conclusions though they may be.

3) I do appreciate the conciseness, yes.

“Brevity is the soul of wit.” – Lord Polonius

 

[unodelacosa]

I personally still reject that ONLY MDMA classes as ecstasy.

Whatever man, say whatever you want and think whatever pleases you. I really don't give a flying fuck. All I'm saying is: don't be surprised if other people specifically mean MDMA and only MDMA when using the term “ecstasy.” That's my unsolicited advice, anyway; make of it what you will.

But I'm not going into another off-topic debate with you. You like to argue too much. Fuck it, call all the drugs ecstasy from now on okay? Ecstasy is the blanket term for every psychoactive drug henceforth. I heard the DEA are changing their name to the EEA for Ecstasy Enforcement Agency (y) Woo-hoo. Progress.

“It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere.”
– Voltaire

EDIT: and p.s. – “reductionism” is a pejorative term and calling another's argument “reductive” is not a good thing. The implication is that it is a crude oversimplification. Don't take my word for it; look it up.

 

[AutoTripper]

Okay.

 

[psy997]

Whatever man, say whatever you want and think whatever pleases you. I really don't give a flying fuck. All I'm saying is: don't be surprised if other people specifically mean MDMA and only MDMA when using the term “ecstasy.” That's my unsolicited advice, anyway; make of it what you will.

In the US, at least, ecstacy usually refers to any form of MDMA including crystal, pressed pills with solely MDMA, and pressed pills with MDMA and other substances. MDMA refers solely to crystal.

But I'm not going into another off-topic debate with you. You like to argue too much. Fuck it, call all the drugs ecstasy from now on okay? Ecstasy is the blanket term for every psychoactive drug henceforth. I heard the DEA are changing their name to the EEA for Ecstasy Enforcement Agency (y) Woo-hoo. Progress.

“It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere.”
– Voltaire

For the second time, stop insulting other members, no matter your opinion of them or their beliefs, thoughts, perspectives, etc.

 

[RomanJ]

What I want to know is where did it all come from?
Tbh I was obsessed with E in the 90's I had all different types of pills which all contained slightly different but high quality Ecstasy. MDE, MDEA, MDA, MDMA. You always knew when you'd had some MDA as everyone would start hallucinating In the club!
Who made all these amazing chemicals? There must be chemists out there who can still make them all but obviously don't want to risk going to prison, so just make it for themselves and close friends.

 

[unodelacosa]

In the US, at least, ecstacy usually refers to any form of MDMA including crystal, pressed pills with solely MDMA, and pressed pills with MDMA and other substances. MDMA refers solely to crystal.

According to what source? Some may misapply the label, but everything I've read so far – Wikipedia, various online dictionaries, PiHKAL, etc. – all specify “ecstasy” as a nickname for MDMA regardless of whether its in pill form, capsules, or just raw crystals or powder. In my experience and life, the raw, unpressed form is referred to as “molly”. I realize and accept, of course, that pressed “e-pills” contain MDMA + other things, but then another way to say that is that the pill contains ecstasy plus [other drugs], with the implication that by “ecstasy” you mean of course just “MDMA”.

It's not the first time I've heard this argument, and it usually involves methylone being called ecstasy, too. Do you support that habit? I sure don't.

Let's address this other drama you seem hellbent on drawing up, shall we?

For the second time, stop insulting other members, no matter your opinion of them or their beliefs, thoughts, perspectives, etc.

You're way off-base and insultingAF to me now, trying to be Mr. Superhero Savior and barking orders, telling me how to speak after another poor display of reading comprehension. What're you gunning to be a moderator or something? Just dying to calls the shots, are we?

To start, I didn't insult anybody. I'm attempting to stay on topic (*ahem*) while people are making asinine statements and distributing false information, which can easily become very harmful as you no doubt already know. Encouraging shitty naming conventions leads to things like PMA poisoning and methylone overdoses, okay? So back TF up, because I'm the one who's actually looking out for people's interests.

Oh and btw, I accidentally copied & pasted my own signature in that message which is why it's double-posted, in case that's whatever insult you're accusing me of making. There's no implied meaning to that, so stop reading into things to start trouble where none exists. Don't tell me what to do, either. Go pull that fake Captain America buillshit on someone else. @AutoTripper and I have spoken outside this thread, and I have nothing personal against @AutoTripper. We've agreed that we can disagree, and we're both long-time, avid fans of taking LSD. You're butting into shit after making a bunch of assumptions about my tone, which is generally a lot lighter than it might sound to you. Lastly, remember: just because I state I think an idea or hypothesis is moronic does not mean I'm calling that person a moron. I've had astoundingly dumb ideas, but I wouldn't refer to myself as dumb. And if you're easily offended by silly-ass words like “moron” and “dumb” especially when they're not directed toward you or even just your ideas, but rather someone else's poorly thought-out ideas, then I would suggest perhaps attempting to grow some thicker skin socially speaking, as it were.

Res ipsa loquitur.

 

[psy997]

According to what source? Some may misapply the label, but everything I've read so far – Wikipedia, various online dictionaries, PiHKAL, etc. – all specify “ecstasy” as a nickname for MDMA regardless of whether its in pill form, capsules, or just raw crystals or powder. In my experience and life, the raw, unpressed form is referred to as “molly”. I realize and accept, of course, that pressed “e-pills” contain MDMA + other things, but then another way to say that is that the pill contains ecstasy plus [other drugs], with the implication that by “ecstasy” you mean of course just “MDMA”.

It's not the first time I've heard this argument, and it usually involves methylone being called ecstasy, too. Do you support that habit? I sure don't.

It's cultural, I don't have a source. I'm not arguing it's optimal, but it is widespread, so far as I can tell.

You're way off-base and insultingAF to me now, trying to be Mr. Superhero Savior and barking orders, telling me how to speak after another poor display of reading comprehension. What're you gunning to be a moderator or something? Just dying to calls the shots, are we?

To start, I didn't insult anybody. I'm attempting to stay on topic (*ahem*) while people are making asinine statements and distributing false information, which can easily become very harmful as you no doubt already know. Encouraging shitty naming conventions leads to things like PMA poisoning and methylone overdoses, okay? So back TF up, because I'm the one who's actually looking out for people's interests.

Oh and btw, I accidentally copied & pasted my own signature in that message which is why it's double-posted, in case that's whatever insult you're accusing me of making. There's no implied meaning to that, so stop reading into things to start trouble where none exists. Don't tell me what to do, either. Go pull that fake Captain America buillshit on someone else. @AutoTripper and I have spoken outside this thread, and I have nothing personal against @AutoTripper. We've agreed that we can disagree, and we're both long-time, avid fans of taking LSD. You're butting into shit after making a bunch of assumptions about my tone, which is generally a lot lighter than it might sound to you. Lastly, remember: just because I state I think an idea or hypothesis is moronic does not mean I'm calling that person a moron. I've had astoundingly dumb ideas, but I wouldn't refer to myself as dumb. And if you're easily offended by silly-ass words like “moron” and “dumb” especially when they're not directed toward you or even just your ideas, but rather someone else's poorly thought-out ideas, then I would suggest perhaps attempting to grow some thicker skin socially speaking, as it were.

Res ipsa loquitur.

Fair. The signature being included conveyed a strong condescension. Now that I understand that was not meant to be there, I rescind my statement, and apologize for having especially little space for you in this thread.

 

[AutoTripper]

According to what source? Some may misapply the label, but everything I've read so far – Wikipedia, various online dictionaries, PiHKAL, etc. – all specify “ecstasy” as a nickname for MDMA regardless of whether its in pill form, capsules, or just raw crystals or powder. In my experience and life, the raw, unpressed form is referred to as “molly”. I realize and accept, of course, that pressed “e-pills” contain MDMA + other things, but then another way to say that is that the pill contains ecstasy plus [other drugs], with the implication that by “ecstasy” you mean of course just “MDMA”.

It's not the first time I've heard this argument, and it usually involves methylone being called ecstasy, too. Do you support that habit? I sure don't.

Let's address this other drama you seem hellbent on drawing up, shall we?

You're way off-base and insultingAF to me now, trying to be Mr. Superhero Savior and barking orders, telling me how to speak after another poor display of reading comprehension. What're you gunning to be a moderator or something? Just dying to calls the shots, are we?

To start, I didn't insult anybody. I'm attempting to stay on topic (*ahem*) while people are making asinine statements and distributing false information, which can easily become very harmful as you no doubt already know. Encouraging shitty naming conventions leads to things like PMA poisoning and methylone overdoses, okay? So back TF up, because I'm the one who's actually looking out for people's interests.

Oh and btw, I accidentally copied & pasted my own signature in that message which is why it's double-posted, in case that's whatever insult you're accusing me of making. There's no implied meaning to that, so stop reading into things to start trouble where none exists. Don't tell me what to do, either. Go pull that fake Captain America buillshit on someone else. @AutoTripper and I have spoken outside this thread, and I have nothing personal against @AutoTripper. We've agreed that we can disagree, and we're both long-time, avid fans of taking LSD. You're butting into shit after making a bunch of assumptions about my tone, which is generally a lot lighter than it might sound to you. Lastly, remember: just because I state I think an idea or hypothesis is moronic does not mean I'm calling that person a moron. I've had astoundingly dumb ideas, but I wouldn't refer to myself as dumb. And if you're easily offended by silly-ass words like “moron” and “dumb” especially when they're not directed toward you or even just your ideas, but rather someone else's poorly thought-out ideas, then I would suggest perhaps attempting to grow some thicker skin socially speaking, as it were.

Res ipsa loquitur.

Mate, I am sorry I riled you. I really didn’t mean to argue with nor frustrate you. It’s silly that we should argue. I’m passionate about this I admit, I do appreciate you are simply trying to be accurate and factual, no room left for misinterpretation.

I still don’t accept it as a closed case, but I won’t profess to be the authority, and as said my views CAN change.

I didn’t feel also that this discussion was irrelevant or misplaced, unworthwhile.

The more we can muse and fathom and brainstorm from any angle the better in one sense.

Ecstasy has a definition outside of and preceding the drugs it was attached to.

So okay, maybe the term was originally chosen for MDMA specifically for its “ecstatic” feeling.

Arguably, MDA is less ecstatic but equally mesmerising and thrilling IME, and MDE even less ecstatic.

If MDMA had never been, only MDE and MDA, just maybe Ecstasy would never have become the slang definition? No way of knowing.

I’m just trying to trace it back and be a little more open and objective.

I never mentioned MDEA as a member did above, as I think I discovered long ago it’s MDE basically under an extended label? Would have to look into that though.

So to be accurate and save dispute, the term Ecstasy could simply be abandoned, providing we know what we’ve got, we then simply say I’m on MDMA, or MDA, or MDE tonight.

And @psy997 I owe you an apology. I’m sorry for how I retaliated emotionally to your fair assertion that this was the wrong place for Uno and I to have gone properly off topic before. I was going a bit nuts at the time.

Thank you for your ongoing civility and openness towards all members and attempts to keep the peace and topic on course/relevant.

Ps…please nobody bite my head off for anything said above, it IS very fragile.

I’m not asking for sympathy we all have our own lot, just….civility.

 

[Negi]

To be clear, the name ecstasy didn't sublimate out of the general drug using population, it was explicitly created to be a street/brand name for MDMA when it was legal in the 80s. It isn't a mystery, we even know the exact person who came up with it.

“When I first got it, I remember calling it Adam,” Clegg says. “I thought, This isn’t something I can market. What is the true experience of this? I had to convince people who didn’t do drugs to try one no one had heard of. I was telling people it would let them see God. Then it came to me: It was pure ecstasy.”

It seems that many people in the thread only encountered it in the later 90s, when dealers had bastardized it to mean "any pill I'm selling that makes you feel high". You can see something similar with the more recently adopted term "molly". It was original used to describe only MDMA (usually in the form of capsuled crystal/powder). Yet you can find people online who think "molly" means methylone, because thanks to shithead dealers that's probably what you were getting if you bought "molly" in 2012-15.

 

[unodelacosa]

What I want to know is where did it all come from?

During what era and in what part of the world? You should check out Hamilton's Pharmacopeia: Season 1 Episode 6 – The Lazy Lizard School of Hedonismon Vice. A lot of it came from Darrell Lemair back in the 70s and 80s. There were more U.S. Domestic producers until the DEA figured out the most common routes of administration and began watching closely all related chemicals. For example, due to the p-benzo wacker oxidation, para-benzoquinone is now watched. B/c of the mercuric chloride / aluminum amalgam final reduction/amination, mercuric chloride is reportable, plus especially methylamine. Oh and sassafras oil itself is now considered to be a List 1 banned chemical precursor.

Tbh I was obsessed with E in the 90's I had all different types of pills which all contained slightly different but high quality Ecstasy. MDE, MDEA, MDA, MDMA.

Let me stop you for a moment to point out here that MDE and MDEA (and EDMA, too) are all the same chemical: 3,4-methylenedioxyethylamphetamine. It’s not anywhere nearly as good as MDMA, and is frequently avoided by most chemists but it still pops up once in a while.

You always knew when you'd had some MDA as everyone would start hallucinating In the club!

FWIW, several of the psychedelic phenethylamines can feel much like being on MDA and on lower levels the visuals are never overload

Who made all these amazing chemicals?

People like me and many of the other Hive Bees from the now-defunct the-hive.ws website. Back then, it wasn’t quite as difficult to get (affordable) chemicals. Now everything is on the watched list. It’s annoying.

There must be chemists out there who can still make them all but obviously don't want to risk going to prison, so just make it for themselves and close friends.

Depends on what it is and in which circle it’s being sold. For example, I technically know how to synthesize LSD, but I’m precluded from doing so b/c I’d have to procure ergotamine tartrate, diethylamine, a rotovap… need to work under photographic darkroom red light in a climate and humidity controlled room. It’s just not easy.

 

[AutoTripper]

Let me stop you for a moment to point out here that MDE and MDEA (and EDMA, too) are all the same chemical: 3,4-methylenedioxyethylamphetamine. It’s not anywhere nearly as good as MDMA, and is frequently avoided by most chemists but it still pops up once in a while.

Phew, saved myself with a few brownie points. That was one thing I felt almost sure about.

I remember I used to use the term MDEA but dropped it from my vocabulary entirely many years ago, deciding it was obsolete, I was sure it was learning it to be an aka for MDE, like 1alsd is for ALD.

We were admittedly shockingly unschooled and uninformed ravers in the 90’s. We were introduced to MDMA and the rest simply as ecstasy. Of course everybody had heard of MDMA, but equally we knew we were taking MDA and MDE regularly, we and everybody else in the scene, ravers, DJ’s, dealers, news reports, commonly referred to “E tablets” as ecstasy, without strictly and categorically equating that with MDMA, inaccurately of course.

I still remember Brian Harvey’s (of the UK band East 17) shocker of a miscalculation telling the press he thought ecstasy was receiving an unfair bad rap, he felt it wasn’t only way safer than the press portrayed it, actually good for you in ways, and above all how he once took 12 ecstasy pills in one night.

About 1994 or 95 I think. They would have been some serious quality pills I bet, rich kids on the block still in prime OG era.

But I also wondered what was in his “ecstasy” pills. I would hesitate to bet just pure MDMA. It was never the unanimous view that the very very best “ecstasy” pills were solely MDMA.

We just grew into the culture using ecstasy to refer to the pills we took, without knowing the ratios of different MD’s. I hold my hands up and concede ignorance on that one.

So Brian Harvey’s announcement, that was the end of East 17. The rest of the band members still hate his guts, never forgave him for their 9-5’s until 65 lol.

I still love that one song they released though, “Stay now”.

They were clearly smashed on e’s at that time, not long before it all came crashing down.

 

[AutoTripper]

I’ll tell you one thing, I reckon Syd Barrett would have absolutely DUG some MDMA lol.

It may have saved him. It’s reported as difficult, the post MDMA blues, disruption, turmoil and depression from abuse and damage.

I went the whole yard on it, but “passed” every moment, with nothing to haunt me now or since, and healed very well in time.

But a certain amount of LSD this year, has really dwarfed the impact MDMA had on my mind and emotions, ability to keep head together.

I can so understand how he and others (like Peter Greene) really strayed off.

In a bizarre way, MDMA is so much safer there. The biggest difference in my case currently- MDMA use at any level, I and others would observe differences in my behaviour, attitude, speech, expression etc. Apparent brain function and security, strength of personality.

The LSD I feel, but isn’t impairing my brain function, regarding interaction, and social skills the same way MDMA would/did.

And yet I feel completely nuts.

 

[unodelacosa]

you are simply trying to be accurate and factual, no room left for misinterpretation.

It's a safety thing. Being able to properly identify a drug before putting it in your body is a very valuable and seemingly fundamental component to responsible use. I just lost a good friend this past April to an opiate overdose brought on from Heroin cut with Fentanyl, so I'm probably being extra over this topic. I'm not just being OCD or arguing for argument's sake though. And while I hear what you're saying about some people branching out these terms to cover various analogs of MDMA, this practice should be met with resistance. We have plenty of sources of authority that define “ecstasy” the drug as MDMA. (To be fair though, some law enforcement agency sources, particularly the British Drugs Intelligence Laboratory have unfortunately adopted this practice of using the primary, secondary, and tertiary amines all as acceptable stand-ins for “ecstasy”. How daft.)

I remember I used to use the term MDEA but dropped it from my vocabulary entirely many years ago, deciding it was obsolete, I was sure it was learning it to be an aka for MDE, like 1alsd is for ALD.

Check it out: the “A” in “MDEA” stands for “Amphetamine” (which itself is shorthand for “alpha-methyl-phenyl-ethyl-amine”, but I digress). So for MDA, there are only three letters because the amine has no substitutions for its valence-filling hydrogens attached to the nitrogen moiety (to wit: the amine). It is MethyleneDioxyAmphetamine. It is said to be a primary amine.

If we draw a methyl group on the amine (NH₃) we will have drawn the secondary amine, MDMA or n-methyl-MDA aka MethyleneDioxyMethAmphetamine.

Methyl groups (CH₃) are named in a particular order: 1 methyl, 2 ethyl, 3 butyl, 4 propyl, 5 pentyl, 6 hexyl, 7 heptyl, 8 octyl, 9 nonyl, 10 decyl, 11 undecyl, 12 dodecyl, etc. Point here is: adding two CH₃ groups to the nitrogen-bearing amine produces a different secondary amine, MDEA, which is sometimes shortened to MDE and is even seen as EDMA at times. It stands for MethyleneDioxyEthylAmphetamine. I have a pet theory that people wanted to avoid using the acronym "DEA" as it also stands for "Drug Enforcement Agency" in the U.S. so they dropped the terminating A from MDEA, but this is just my wild conjecture.

Regardless, the very first sentence on psychonautwiki's MDEA entry is: “3,4-Methylenedioxy-N-ethylamphetamine (also known as MDEA, MDE, and colloquially as Eve) is a lesser-known entactogen substance of the amphetamine class.”

The opening lines on Wikipedia's MDEA entry: “3,4-Methylenedioxy-N-ethylamphetamine (MDEA; also called MDE and colloquially, Eve) is an empathogenic psychoactive drug. […] MDEA is used recreationally in a similar manner to MDMA (also called ecstasy), however the subjective effects of MDEA are milder and shorter lasting.”

And lastly, PiHKAL has it listed as: “#106 MDE, MDEA; EVE; N-ETHYL-MDA; 3,4-METHYLENEDIOXY-N-ETHYLAMPHETAMINE” Can we lay to rest your question as to whether this is a separate drug now, please? (Hint: it isn't). Meanwhile we're drifting back into being on topic, on the brightside…

Ok so then a primary amine has no substituents. A secondary amine has one functional group substituent, while two or more functional groups qualify the compound as a tertiary amine. Just to reiterate an earlier point I made, MDEA can be distinguished from MDDMA by testing specifically for a secondary amine versus a tertiary amine. Selah.

 

[AutoTripper]

(To be fair though, some law enforcement agency sources, particularly the British Drugs Intelligence Laboratory have unfortunately adopted this practice of using the primary, secondary, and tertiary amines all as acceptable stand-ins for “ecstasy”. How daft.)

Thanks for the insight, and sorry for patronising you over this point.

It will still always feel odd to me, for example, how the legendary OG Snowballs, fantastic pills, allegedly 200 mg’s MDA and felt every bit like it too, which would no doubt have been sold and regarded, described as ecstasy for years, were in fact not.

I wonder if your point above relates to simplifying or strengthening the prosecution process, to simply call MDA/E ecstasy too.

I don’t rule out pure incompetence though.

I ordered some lysergamides from legal Dutch last year, but after Brexit, Border force suddenly open everything suspect, free movement within the EU abolished, and the cheek is they started exercising those rights almost a year before Brexit even bloody happened,

100 micropellets of 1cP-LSD never arrived. The company, who I naturally maintained good communion with and referrred widely as they ate solidly legit, even to US still, voluntarily reshaped me 50 blotters of 1cP.

It states as clear as day on the bag, the exact compound name, the exact dosage- 100 Micrograms per tab.

No show. 4 weeks go by, this arrives:




Wrong compound, and they are calling 50 trips half a million! Border Force. Charged with enforcing drug laws and policy regarding importation etc.

Needless to say, that shop just can’t do business with the UK any longer. Still for USA though.

 

[AutoTripper]

Do not even bother buying pills. They are garbage. Just get the crystals right off the pan.

Not in the “old days” as the adults would say when I was a pup. They were freaking fantastic.

I had powder, Crystal many times. Top quality. The best “ecstasy” pills were never inferior or lacking in contrast, whichever of the MD’s predominated them.

 

[AutoTripper]

I almost died multiple times while taking pills. Like a dozen pills. But Im sure you are older than me.

I’m not disagreeing with you. I’ve not ingested any MDMA or other for 16 years. But a gazillion between 1996 and 2005.

I remember the absolute best presses more than the very best crystal too. On my desert island in Utopia, I salivate for them more than crystal, powder.

Maybe because they were a mixture with MDA.

 

[TripSitterNZ]

i have it on good authority that MDMA will increasingly become rare and may soon become a drug of the past. Its already hard to find magic stuff and the little amounts of it out there is about to disappear off the face of the planet soon. The new comers will never know what the magic stuff was like. RIP mdma had some good times.

 

[psy997]

i have it on good authority that MDMA will increasingly become rare and may soon become a drug of the past. Its already hard to find magic stuff and the little amounts of it out there is about to disappear off the face of the planet soon. The new comers will never know what the magic stuff was like. RIP mdma had some good times.

Even if black market MDMA goes bye bye, MDMA won't go away. It is the most promising drug in mental health in decades, and is about to experience an absolute explosion in therapeutic fields.

 

[AutoTripper]

Legal prescription MDMA then hopefully. Except it will be 130 mg’s every 3 months.

And maybe then also they’ll have a patented form of the imminent to be banned NAC to offer too.

 

[TripSitterNZ]

i honestly believe its a good thing it might disappear from the black market. Abusing mdma is worse than abusing meth. Many people have ruined themselves consuming mdma too much. Id rather see ketamine replace the drug scene.