What evolutionary reason does the poppy have for producing morphine/other opioids?

[Valium]

I think this is an extremely important point that nobody is taking into account

People are talking like morphine production is the sole reason for the poppy's pre-human sucess, when in fact there is absolutely no reason to think this is the case, and the reality is morphine could very likely have absolutely nothing to do with it

It's a weed that spreads like wildfire and grows with ease in many climates. Morphine only comes into play when humans discover it and purposefully cultivate it, thereby rendering the evolutionary aspects moot

SALVE, SALVE.

this is THE most important point. darwinism, evolutionary theory of the sort, is something totally detached from human subjectivity, and yet the concept is created by man. vertigo logic. the stark objectivity of the survival of the fittest game. why are they the fittest, what makes them the fittest...

excellent point, again.

 

[garuda]

People are talking like morphine production is the sole reason for the poppy's pre-human sucess, when in fact there is absolutely no reason to think this is the case, and the reality is morphine could very likely have absolutely nothing to do with it

I thought the question was why a plant would produce morphine in the first place, and the answer is higher survival rates by the plants that produce enough morphine to make them bitter to grazing animals.

I also think we should keep in mind morphine is one of about fifty alkaloids produced by somniferum, its entirely possible morphine only became the dominant alkaloid through human breeding. So morphine was not even very important to the plant overall, just a tiny piece of the whole that humans happened to love.

 

[CretiNation]

People are talking like morphine production is the sole reason for the poppy's pre-human sucess, when in fact there is absolutely no reason to think this is the case, and the reality is morphine could very likely have absolutely nothing to do with it

maybe not but... the biosynthesis of morphine within the poppy plant is probably not a very simple one and probably requires a substantial amount of energy that the plant could use for something better unless the morphine was an important factor in the survival of the poppy.

in the biological world, it eventually comes down to energy; adaptations that use the least amount of energy while increasing the chance of survival will succeed, while a mutation that leads to an energy-consuming trait that has a negligible effect on survival will, more often than not, only be a hindrance and not survive.

interesting side note: regarding human evolution, biologists were baffled for the longest time why we evolved to walk upright. multiple studies were performed comparing the energy conservation of bipedal vs. quadrupedal locomotion and quadrupedal locomotion was ALWAYS the more energy efficient mode of transportation. however, all of these studies compared human bipedal locomotion vs. the quadrupedal locomotion of dogs and horses until one day (don't know his name or cannot cite the study, i read it one of richard leaky's books if you're real curious) a biologist decided to compare human bipedal vs. chimpanzee quadrupedal locomotion et voila our bipedal mode of transport was significantly more energy efficient than the chimp's quadrupedal movement. anyway, i digress (cool digression though)!

 

[kidamnesiac]

I've known for a few years about the capsaicin argument for peppers w/ regards to birds/mammals.

I didn't consider that perhaps the plant found an advantage to making morphine/alkaloids such that certain animals DID consume it but were poor at digesting the seeds and thus spreading them everywhere.

It is also highly likely that the morphine content of ancestral poppies was much lower and breeding has significantly raised the content over time.

Also, many members of the genus produce complex alkaloids, even fairly distant relatives like the california poppy, so those saying that ancestral species didn't produce much alkaloids are not exactly correct.

also-sorry for being a bit of a dick samael, and thanks for being polite about recognizing your error. cheers.

great discussion here.

 

[JahRed24x]

i am pretty sure that the endogenous morphine-like compound enkephalin connects to your opioid receptors. So saying that humans created opioid receptors just for morphine and other opiates in the poppy is just plain wrong.