What creates the greatest amount of good for the greatest number of people?

[JustferFun]

Unfortunately I ve only been to Sicily once But I plan to go back there some day, it s an amazing place and today is way safer than during the 90´s. Have you ever listened to Rosa Balistreri? compared to her Billie Holiday is like Cindy Lauper . This is a song of her about snitches but I don t wanna hijack this thread paisá

I'm not really a big fan of mafia stuff

 

[skipjames]

I'm not really a big fan of mafia stuff

Neither am I, back in the days when this song was written the Mafia guys were not going to jail ( or if they were was for short periods of time). This song is about someone who was at most a small time criminal but was fucked by both his "colleagues" and the "law" It s more about how inherently unfair life was for the majority of people down there....

 

[JustferFun]

Neither am I, back in the days when this song was written the Mafia guys were not going to jail ( or if they were was for short periods of time). This song is about someone who was at most a small time criminal but was fucked by both his "colleagues" and the "law" It s more about how inherently unfair life was for the majority of people down there....

Capito

 

[brokedownpalace10]

I have always been a pro legalization of everything kind of person but I m having some doubts atm. Maybe you guys can help me out. Setting aside weed and hash that should be legalized everywhere (not because they are "harmless" but I mean wtf? Booze and cigarettes are legal !) let s talk about hard drugs like heroin and coke. I can think about two main pros of legalization :
1) people would have access to the real thing, know what they are using and how much they are using. Plagues like Fentanyl probably would not even exist
2) We will not give money to the likes of the Talibans- Ndrangheta-South American Cartels-etc
BUT :
legalization means availability and availability is a BITCH. I ve struggled with opioids and more recently with coke for the last 17 years, with a BS drug like..cigarettes I m not even struggling I feel really powerless AA style, don t even know where to start quitting because cigs are everywhere. I m sure alcoholics have a WAY harder time quitting their drinking than we coke or opioid users cos booze is available and socially accepted. I m doing lots of coke also because here in Brazil is...good, cheap and everywhere. If I was still in Europe I ld smoke my heroin and do coke only on special occasions. Can you see my point? What kind of legalization do we have in mind when it comes to heroin and especially coke? To give pharma grade heroin to addicts Switzerland style seems promising, but what to do with a super compulsive drug like coke? Not to mention stuff like meth ? Also, drug dealers will be out of business or invent some other shite- sell cheaper black market version of the legalized drugs ( i.e. what happened with cigarettes , back in the days in my South Italian hometown we ALL bought black market cigarettes?)

Definitely putting users in jail because they are users is the ultimate BS, definitely prohibitionism does not work, but I wonder what could really work, if anything....

RE: Legal Heroin. They used to have a program in England which supplied Heroin to addicts. They had determined that most rehab programs did not work, but that many junkies would stop as they got older. So, their goal was to keep them alive till they got older and to reduce the harm on society.

A person would have to get tested to show they were addicted to opioids and they would be helped in getting an apartment and a job. They would be supplied Heroin as long as they kept the apartment and job. They couldn't commit other crimes or they'd be cut aff, they paid taxes, and they got into the habit of a "productive" life style.

That one makes a lot of sense to me but I'm pretty sure they haven't done that for years.

 

[skipjames]

RE: Legal Heroin. They used to have a program in England which supplied Heroin to addicts. They had determined that most rehab programs did not work, but that many junkies would stop as they got older. So, their goal was to keep them alive till they got older and to reduce the harm on society.

A person would have to get tested to show they were addicted to opioids and they would be helped in getting an apartment and a job. They would be supplied Heroin as long as they kept the apartment and job. They couldn't commit other crimes or they'd be cut aff, they paid taxes, and they got into the habit of a "productive" life style.

That one makes a lot of sense to me but I'm pretty sure they haven't done that for years.

Yep, up until the 60´s the UK policy on drugs, especially on heroin, was pretty liberal. I would like to read more about this subject, as fair as I have understood the program was stopped due to international pressure (mostly from the US) and for political reasons (drugs were not a niche thing of veterans and jazz players anymore but an integral part of a counterculture that was perceived as "subversive and evil") but also because drug use was increasingly widespread and out of control. I think that with heroin it could work, see Switzerland.

But what about drugs like cocaine? Coke is more popular than smack at least in Europe, if you do smack you take the amount you need and that s it while with coke the more you have the more you do, the more you do the more you are likely to go insane....
Having affordable pharmaceutical coke is the lesser of two evils (better than giving money to the Cartels Mafias etc)? or the availability would increase the number of the users, hence increase the number of people with coke related mental and physical issues such as hearth conditions? Or cocaine should be sold and taxed like alcohol is - we should leave functional part time or full time users alone, help the ones who need help and prosecute the users who commit crimes under the influence (i.e DUI) ? Will the Cartels-Mafias etc sit and take it and find an honest job or focus on other businesses such as dealing weapons and human trafficking or will they simply sell cheaper products ( as they are doing already, the price of coke plummeted in Europe in the last ten years) ? The more I think about it the more puzzled I am ....

 

[JustferFun]

RE: Legal Heroin. They used to have a program in England which supplied Heroin to addicts. They had determined that most rehab programs did not work, but that many junkies would stop as they got older. So, their goal was to keep them alive till they got older and to reduce the harm on society.

A person would have to get tested to show they were addicted to opioids and they would be helped in getting an apartment and a job. They would be supplied Heroin as long as they kept the apartment and job. They couldn't commit other crimes or they'd be cut aff, they paid taxes, and they got into the habit of a "productive" life style.

That one makes a lot of sense to me but I'm pretty sure they haven't done that for years.

I heard that they stopped that program but I'm not really sure why they did.

 

[JustferFun]

Yep, up until the 60´s the UK policy on drugs, especially on heroin, was pretty liberal. I would like to read more about this subject, as fair as I have understood the program was stopped due to international pressure (mostly from the US) and for political reasons (drugs were not a niche thing of veterans and jazz players anymore but an integral part of a counterculture that was perceived as "subversive and evil") but also because drug use was increasingly widespread and out of control. I think that with heroin it could work, see Switzerland.

But what about drugs like cocaine? Coke is more popular than smack at least in Europe, if you do smack you take the amount you need and that s it while with coke the more you have the more you do, the more you do the more you are likely to go insane....
Having affordable pharmaceutical coke is the lesser of two evils (better than giving money to the Cartels Mafias etc)? or the availability would increase the number of the users, hence increase the number of people with coke related mental and physical issues such as hearth conditions? Or cocaine should be sold and taxed like alcohol is - we should leave functional part time or full time users alone, help the ones who need help and prosecute the users who commit crimes under the influence (i.e DUI) ? Will the Cartels-Mafias etc sit and take it and find an honest job or focus on other businesses such as dealing weapons and human trafficking or will they simply sell cheaper products ( as they are doing already, the price of coke plummeted in Europe in the last ten years) ? The more I think about it the more puzzled I am ....

The only reason I did coke was because I did heroin lol. I was actually reading about the connection between those two drugs. If you have heroin, coming down from the coke high is easy. Most people in my area do both.

 

[skipjames]

I heard that they stopped that program but I'm not really sure why they did.

As far as I have read it was mostly due to international pressure ( esp. from the US) because of doctors over prescribing H and coke that were not a "niche" phenomenon anymore and last but not least because fuck the hippies....

 

[skipjames]

The only reason I did coke was because I did heroin lol. I was actually reading about the connection between those two drugs. If you have heroin, coming down from the coke high is easy. Most people in my area do both.

The only reason I do coke is because I DON ´T have heroin or oxys or even some freaking codeine This coke we get down here is generally good so the comedowns are manageable, unless you are a coglione come me and spend two days snorting non stop . I even managed to give one class yesterday and another one + a seminar today so I can function, I wonder for how long though....

 

[JustferFun]

As far as I have read it was mostly due to international pressure ( esp. from the US) because of doctors over prescribing H and coke that were not a "niche" phenomenon anymore and last but not least because fuck the hippies....

I was in London circa 2001 and I will never forget this one thing......My friend and I were just walking around checking out pubs and we walked by an alley and all of the sudden we hear someone loudly say, "Would anyone like to buy some heroin?" in a perfectly proper, polite English accent lol.

 

[skipjames]

I was in London circa 2001 and I will never forget this one thing......My friend and I were just walking around checking out pubs and we walked by an alley and all of the sudden we hear someone loudly say, "Would anyone like to buy some heroin?" in a perfectly proper, polite English accent lol.

I moved there 10 years later and the only trades done in the open were of a more sexual nature . H was obviously available but you had to search a little. Still even street level gear was good

 

[JustferFun]

The only reason I do coke is because I DON ´T have heroin or oxys or even some freaking codeine This coke we get down here is generally good so the comedowns are manageable, unless you are a coglione come me and spend two days snorting non stop . I even managed to give one class yesterday and another one + a seminar today so I can function, I wonder for how long though....

Have you ever tried poppy pod tea? There's a loophole in the law in the UK that makes it legal for them to sell dried poppy pods and they ship them worldwide.

When my nonno was sick, there was a bottle of liquid morphine in the house. That was before I really did any hardcore opiates/ opioids, but I was tempted . My nonna had diabetes so there were plenty of needles around but I wasn't that brave at the time.

 

[skipjames]

Have you ever tried poppy pod tea? There's a loophole in the law in the UK that makes it legal for them to sell dried poppy pods and they ship them worldwide

dimmi di piú che mi interessa ( can you send- receive private messages here?)

 

[JustferFun]

dimmi di piú che mi interessa ( can you send- receive private messages here?)

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