Warning about new party drug in Sydney-Red mitsibishi

[Mikkyme]

I've just finished reading all 5 pages of posts, and cant seem to find any evidence of PMA being found in a pill.

I do believe that PMA may be present in particular batch of red mistubishi's, and written evidence from St Vincent Hospital would be greatly appreciated.

I'd advice not to consume the pills, Be safe please.

 

[drplatypus]

You're quite right; most of this has been speculation, albeit informed by clinical experience. I have heard a rumour that one of the overdoses from NSW has returned a positive urine toxicology for PMA, and I will investigate.

 

[archie]

ok, a friend should be getting one from a batch in Brisbane tomorrow. I've managed to track down someone with an Xtreme test kit (Robadub included). I'll get him to take a heap of photos for me of the pill and results, and get them up here before the weekend!

 

[aunty establishment]

a whole swag of people who were worried that they had taken red Mitsubishis, it turned out they hadn't and none went to intensive care

I think what they meant to write is that people were worried because they had taken red Mitsubishi pills and thought it might have been PMA, which it turned out not to be. Just sloppy journalism.

 

[Sllip]

Just a quick question for the Doc, could a MDMA overdose be mistakenly diagnosed as a PMA overdose in the heat of an emergency department?

I tried a couple of these pills on the weekend and would have to say they are some of the strongest I have ever had, right up there with x-scores. I only took them in halves but I still managed to have crossed-eye-wobbles. And my tolerances are very high (4 green UNs of last year got me fucked, but not out of control).

 

[drplatypus]

Definitely, especially to Dr. Joe Schmo who might not be used to treating recreational overdoses.
In the mid-90's in London, Prof John Henry started to describe the first UK cases of MDMA overdose. These were really big overdoses, and they certainly had features similar to PMA and the serotonergic syndrome. I have seen both these, and PMA OD, and from my perspective, these very significant MDMA overdoses can resemble a MINOR PMA overdose. The symptoms are less severe than with a significant PMA overdose, and generally respond to treatment. A significant PMA overdose frequently does nothing in response to medical treatment.
Those mega-dose MDMA pills that were around in SE Asia 18 m ago (300mg+ MDMA!) put everyone who took them (was it in Japan- can't remember..) got real sick
Bear in mind that severe serotonergic syndome carries a mortality of 30%, and can be triggered by the use of MDMA in combination with certain medications.

 

[wazza]

Hmm, interesting:

SMH 7th October 2004

New theory on drug death cause
By Justin Norrie
October 7, 2004


A 19-year-old Summer Hill woman who died after ingesting a drug did not take a bogus "red Mitsubishi" pill, as first thought, but an "orange CK" tablet purporting to be ecstasy, police have said.

The woman collapsed early on Saturday after taking half a tablet on a train to Kings Cross the night before, and died on Sunday morning.

At first police feared she had consumed the toxic para-methoxyamphetamine, or PMA, which they believe some dealers have been passing off as red Mitsubishi ecstasy tablets.

St Vincent's Hospital has recently treated party-goers who have collapsed after taking PMA instead of red Mitsubishi.

Police would not speculate on the cause of the victim's overdose yesterday. A toxicology report is expected next week.

Detective Superintendent David Laidlaw, from the Drugs Squad, said: "There could have been anything in what she took, we can't know until the analysis comes in.

The woman was with three friends when she took the drug, police said. None of her friends consumed anything. The woman suffered headaches and sought help from ambulance officers. By the time she was treated, the headache had eased. Ambulance officers advised her to drink lots of water and let her go.

But when her headache rapidly worsened, she returned to the house of one of her friends, in Blacktown, and went to sleep.

In the early hours of Saturday, she woke feeling drastically worse, and went by ambulance to Nepean Hospital, police said.

Her family made the decision to switch off her life-support machine after her brain activity ceased on Sunday morning.

Paul Dillon, from the National Drug and Alcohol Research Centre, said media reports about toxic red Mitsubishi tablets were exaggerated. "If there was a bad batch out there, there would be heaps of people getting very sick, much more than we've seen at the moment," he said.


from http://smh.com.au/articles/2004/10/06/1096949592288.html?oneclick=true

 

[backindauk]

The world needs more people like you, Dr Platypus.

I recall hearing about those extremely strong (~300mg) pills. Apparently they were quite large compared to a normal pill and that many were sold as stronger pills, many not knowing how strong they really are.l

How would one go about measuring the quantity of a substance in a pill? I have a fairly basic background in chemistry.

 

[Sllip]

Definitely, especially to Dr. Joe Schmo who might not be used to treating recreational overdoses.
In the mid-90's in London, Prof John Henry started to describe the first UK cases of MDMA overdose. These were really big overdoses, and they certainly had features similar to PMA and the serotonergic syndrome. I have seen both these, and PMA OD, and from my perspective, these very significant MDMA overdoses can resemble a MINOR PMA overdose. The symptoms are less severe than with a significant PMA overdose, and generally respond to treatment. A significant PMA overdose frequently does nothing in response to medical treatment.
Those mega-dose MDMA pills that were around in SE Asia 18 m ago (300mg+ MDMA!) put everyone who took them (was it in Japan- can't remember..) got real sick
Bear in mind that severe serotonergic syndome carries a mortality of 30%, and can be triggered by the use of MDMA in combination with certain medications.

So my theory is that a realtive newbies decide to show just how big their dicks are and consume large quantities of red mitsubishis without knowing their strength (read: thread on pill reports from a friend of the original person who was admitted). This then leads to an overdose of MDMA and it's associated complications. The person is rushed to hospital and is examined by the docter. Like all docters he's under the pump 18 hours a day and has to quickly make a diagnosis. He might have vaguely remember reading something about a bunch of PMA overdoses a few years back in Adelaide and this sparks a few thoughts. And since MDMA overdosing is so rare, he doesn't go for the obvious, but instead mis-diagnosed it as a PMA overdose and treats it accordingly. Then the media and the police find out about this and the whole thing is blown out of proportion.

While I'm not saying there is no PMA in red mistubishis so munch away. What I am saying is that everyone is throwing around the term PMA and yet no reagent tests have come up postive and no toxicology reports have been released to verify that PMA was infact injested. It's just turning into another one of those "I didn't feel the same as last time so these pills must contain herion/2CI/PMA/AnythingElseWeCanThinkOf."

 

[drplatypus]

I agree; most of the overdoses that we see from just 'pills' (apart from the super-duper alien media flavoured pill of the month) are from people deciding that they liked what 1 pill did for them, so that 6 must be 'way cool'! There is nothing macho about about rolling a shit load of pills. It is just stupid. The facts regarding binge use of drugs are in the medical literature. All doctors know about it; it's boring. To me, bingeing is the equivalent of some Darwinian gene kicking in and telling you that your time in the gene pool is limited.
Cameron Duff from Melbourne has written in some very serious international journals, about how the Ancient Greeks knew about the importance of moderation when pursuing their pleasures. They knew that the more that they went over the top, and the more frequently they went over the top, the less fun they had each time they partied. Moderation was all part of the pleasure- more intense rushes were obtained if they weren't off their tits all the time (or whetever the Ancient Greek equivalent was!) Some of the most experienced users I have ever met around the world- people who have used more REAL MDMA than most small countries, now only use very sporadically, for a better effect.
I'm sorry that this is a bit off thread, but I think that the culture of drug use in Australia needs to mature a bit before we stop seeing the tragic and un-necessary deaths such as the one in Sydney over the w/e. (I have no idea about the circumstances of her death, and if she did take PMA accidentally it is entirely possible that only one pill was responsible.) I don't think it's overly importnat as to whether it was PMA or not that killed her; the way that some of you guys claim to be using pills in general is dangerous. That YAAAAHHH- SKETCHY-WASTED thing is something I guess everyone goes through, and I suppose it's our job to keep you alive until you grow out of it. One of Shulgins' greatest regrets is that people haven't used Ecstasy for what it was designed to do- he never meant for pills to be used the way that some people are using them here and now in Oz
Everything in moderation guys; you can't hear me say 'I told you so' when you are being ventilated...

 

[ld50 vs ssri]

I agree; most of the overdoses that we see from just 'pills' (apart from the super-duper alien media flavoured pill of the month) are from people deciding that they liked what 1 pill did for them, so that 6 must be 'way cool'! There is nothing macho about about rolling a shit load of pills. It is just stupid. The facts regarding binge use of drugs are in the medical literature. All doctors know about it; it's boring. To me, bingeing is the equivalent of some Darwinian gene kicking in and telling you that your time in the gene pool is limited.
Cameron Duff from Melbourne has written in some very serious international journals, about how the Ancient Greeks knew about the importance of moderation when pursuing their pleasures. They knew that the more that they went over the top, and the more frequently they went over the top, the less fun they had each time they partied. Moderation was all part of the pleasure- more intense rushes were obtained if they weren't off their tits all the time (or whetever the Ancient Greek equivalent was!) Some of the most experienced users I have ever met around the world- people who have used more REAL MDMA than most small countries, now only use very sporadically, for a better effect.
I'm sorry that this is a bit off thread, but I think that the culture of drug use in Australia needs to mature a bit before we stop seeing the tragic and un-necessary deaths such as the one in Sydney over the w/e. (I have no idea about the circumstances of her death, and if she did take PMA accidentally it is entirely possible that only one pill was responsible.) I don't think it's overly importnat as to whether it was PMA or not that killed her; the way that some of you guys claim to be using pills in general is dangerous. That YAAAAHHH- SKETCHY-WASTED thing is something I guess everyone goes through, and I suppose it's our job to keep you alive until you grow out of it. One of Shulgins' greatest regrets is that people haven't used Ecstasy for what it was designed to do- he never meant for pills to be used the way that some people are using them here and now in Oz
Everything in moderation guys; you can't hear me say 'I told you so' when you are being ventilated...

Your comments never fail to make me smile

 

[backindauk]

I agree; most of the overdoses that we see from just 'pills' (apart from the super-duper alien media flavoured pill of the month) are from people deciding that they liked what 1 pill did for them, so that 6 must be 'way cool'! There is nothing macho about about rolling a shit load of pills. It is just stupid. The facts regarding binge use of drugs are in the medical literature. All doctors know about it; it's boring. To me, bingeing is the equivalent of some Darwinian gene kicking in and telling you that your time in the gene pool is limited.
Cameron Duff from Melbourne has written in some very serious international journals, about how the Ancient Greeks knew about the importance of moderation when pursuing their pleasures. They knew that the more that they went over the top, and the more frequently they went over the top, the less fun they had each time they partied. Moderation was all part of the pleasure- more intense rushes were obtained if they weren't off their tits all the time (or whetever the Ancient Greek equivalent was!) Some of the most experienced users I have ever met around the world- people who have used more REAL MDMA than most small countries, now only use very sporadically, for a better effect.
I'm sorry that this is a bit off thread, but I think that the culture of drug use in Australia needs to mature a bit before we stop seeing the tragic and un-necessary deaths such as the one in Sydney over the w/e. (I have no idea about the circumstances of her death, and if she did take PMA accidentally it is entirely possible that only one pill was responsible.) I don't think it's overly importnat as to whether it was PMA or not that killed her; the way that some of you guys claim to be using pills in general is dangerous. That YAAAAHHH- SKETCHY-WASTED thing is something I guess everyone goes through, and I suppose it's our job to keep you alive until you grow out of it. One of Shulgins' greatest regrets is that people haven't used Ecstasy for what it was designed to do- he never meant for pills to be used the way that some people are using them here and now in Oz
Everything in moderation guys; you can't hear me say 'I told you so' when you are being ventilated...

5 Stars

That is precisely what i try telling my friends. They go out on the 'pingers' every weekend for the past 6 months. They are losing touch with reality, as well as the "magic". I've tried telling them that once its gone, its gone for good. If only everyone were to do everything in moderation.

As for Shulgin, he had intended people to use it for love

 

[rachelwings]

Well if this prompts the government (whichever govt gets voted in after Saturday...) to take a harm minimisation approach - free testing, broader distribution of testing kits, whatever - then at least some good can come from the deaths of these people.

 

[phase_dancer]

As for Shulgin, he had intended people to use it for love

I think Dr Shulgin saw MDMA as more of a valuable therapy aid for treating Post traumatic stress disorder (PTSD).

 

[aunty establishment]

What's the chance of the toxicology report being released by the Drug Squad?

 

[hoptis]

Another article suggesting it's not Red Mitsibishi's but Orange CK's.

Deadly delay for teen
By Martin Wallace and Mark Scala
October 8, 2004

THE young Sydney woman who died after taking a lethal tablet she thought contained ecstasy at the weekend was the victim of a 12-hour delay in receiving appropriate treatment, which involved three hospitals.

It took more than nine hours before she was diagnosed with a fatal internal head bleed.

Distraught friends last night said the girl might still be alive if she had not been passed between three hospitals on Saturday, from 2am until late afternoon.

Danielle Chalon was rushed to Mt Druitt hospital after taking a tablet dubbed "Orange CK".

She remained there until a CareFlight ambulance crew transferred her to Blacktown Hospital.

Medics had to intubate her en route after she developed breathing problems.

The 19-year-old was rushed into Blacktown's emergency department, where testing revealed the bleed on the brain.

She was transferred to a third hospital, Nepean, at 2.30pm, because she was in desperate need of neurological care.

However, by that time she was too far gone to be saved.

Her family made the heartbreaking decision to switch off her life-support machine on Monday morning when she was found to have no brain function.

Western Sydney Area Health Service has ordered a clinical review of its handling of the case.

Her friends are not happy.

"My friend might still be alive today if it wasn't for the delays in treating her," one said last night.

"The medical attention she got was not sufficient. This is a very distressing time for her family."

Ms Chalon, from Seven Hills, collapsed with a severe headache on Friday evening shortly after taking half an ecstasy tablet coated with orange food colouring and stamped with a fake Calvin Klein logo.

Three friends who were with her deny they were irresponsible about seeking medical attention.

They claim an ambulance crew that responded to a triple-0 call they made while they were outside a Kings Cross nightclub on Friday evening told them she would be fine.

The friends drove back to a house in Mt Druitt where Danielle went to sleep but her condition deteriorated when she woke in the early hours of Saturday morning.

"We were worried about her on Friday night because she was suffering from a really agonising headache, so we rang an ambulance," Danielle's friend said.

"The crew were told what tablet she had taken and the side effects she was suffering but they said she would be fine.

"If they had told us how serious the situation was we would have taken her to hospital immediately."

The Daily Telegraph

Link

Also some arrests in relation to this death.

Two charged after party drug death
October 8, 2004

TWO men have been charged with drug offences following the drug-related death of a 19-year-old Sydney woman.

The woman is believed to have collapsed early on Saturday after taking half a tablet of a party drug on a train to Kings Cross the night before, and died on Sunday morning.

A 22-year-old Quakers Hill man was charged with numerous offences including possess and supply amphetamine, cultivate and possess prohibited plant and self-administer prohibited drugs.

A 19-year-old Llandilo man was charged with two counts of possessing and supplying a prohibited drug.

The men were arrested by officers investigating the woman's death but police would not specify whether the men were believed to have supplied the drug which killed her.

Police were awaiting the results of a post mortem examination to establish the cause of the woman's death.

The two men were refused bail and will appear in Blacktown Local Court today.

AAP

Link

...the mystery thickens.

 

[Sllip]

Re: there is an mdma only batch around

Via email communication today I spoke to a chemist Enlighten has delt with in the past. There have been recent siezures of red mitsubishi's and they have been GCMS tested to contain MDMA only, so we know for sure that there has been at least one batch that does not contain any adulterant. This is good news as it puts to rest the theory there is only one batch around, that contains MDMA and PMA. If you have had these recently and wondered why you havn't died (as some people on pill reports have questioned), you have probably had the MDMA only batch.

IF someone has done a GCMS then have they done any quantitative analysis by any chance? Do they have any idea of the pills strength?

 

[goodfellas]

This is sticking ur head in the sand if I have ever heard it! I PERSONALLY nursed one of these guys in saint vincents hospital, we were flat out keeping his temperature under 40 degrees for 4 days!!
He had absolutely no reason to lie to us about taking MAOI's or DXM or anything of that nature, I grilled him personally about it. There is a dodgey batch people.

Peace

Would it be wrong to say that everyone is there own unique being as we are all different in some way physically, genetically, etc and a small percentage of people are highly sensitive to phenylamphetamines. People have reactions to medicines where other people have none why cant it be the same with this. Just because someone dies doesn't necessarily mean it was PMA. The ecstacy culture has just began, it will take a few more years before doctors can find out what phenylamphetamines are capable of because it could vary person to person. This is only the beginning of what is to come.The ecstasy trade is big business and when Australia is one of the highest users in the world, organisations will move in from all over the world to try take claim of a quick dollar. The sad thing is many more people will die from these substances when people continue to take something they dont know what it is or what dosage. The quicker we can get Lab Tests the better..

 

[cluchy]

I don't mean to sound nieve and i'm cutting in without reading what everyone is saying but it seems there is debate going on over whether or not Red Mitsubishis contain PMA. IMO they don't, end of story - 1 person dies another ten go to hospital overheating etc. If a batch of PMA pills went onto the market then there would be hundred of deaths. The mad chemist who concocted these things did not create 500,000 pills and then make 1 pill identical to the rest with PMA to kill someone and then create another 10 pills to hospitalise people.... And the media is in a confused frenzy about this issue, its obvious they no shit all about what they are releasing/publishing, but what's new, that's journos for you!

The jokers who are in hospital took too many pills or supplemented them with something else. They are liars. It's logic....

Further, I even doubt there is multiple batches of Red Mitsubishis, they all seem to be good. A've received them from 5-6 different independant sources.

 

[papermate]

/\ - please take some time to read the posts. Your comments whilst appreciate are probably not productive other than highlighting the need for education.

I dont mean this condescendingly.