violence in cronulla - a recreation of... (MERGED)

[MoeBro]

Some people posting in this thread don't deserve the oxygen they breathe.
You know who you are.
Fucking disgusting.

 

[chugs]

Zero the hero you seem to be taking this far too personally.

You still have not articulated a single argument, just keep retorting to a line here and there.

My god you found an apparent contradiction - I call white people by the term "whitey" and thus must be racist because it's a derogatory term. Well I'm white should I be insulted that I've called myself a whitey?

More importantly my use of the term whitey further shows how banal and stupid labels like wog or Leb are. You see it as a insult, well then come down hard on those who use the words like Leb and wog in a derogatory reference (relating to a insult or the possibility of violence). What is good enough for those who you seemingly support is good enough for me to use in a sarcasm & irony context.

More importantly if you can't live in a world of apparent contradictions then your stupider then you come across as. Only morons see the world in the black and white terms that the protagonists of this thread (chops, Keystroke etc) argue in.

You have yet put forth any argument regarding the debate, regarding racism, violence or hatred. I've given you reasons for my language & statements regarding violence. You've chosen to belittling it as a cop out. Nothing more then can be said other then reassuring you that I say these things with much vehemence and that I would never belittle my own argument just for the sake of point scoring.

The use of irony & sarcasm is a legitimate tool in showing how ridiculous violence & hatred is. Comedians have been using it for years. Take for example Chaplin in The Great Dictator or Springtime For Hitler (Mel Brooks). People like Bill Hicks and so on use terrible language to prove their point, should we disregard them as well because the very language they use is an apparent contradiction to the point they're trying to make?

In any case please state your belief in this entire matter. Lay it out for all of us to read instead of picking at phantom contradictions. You hide behind the value of silly criticism, failing to put what you believe on the line.

 

[Raving Loony]

On second thoughts, how about a universal thank-you to ALL The racist fuckwit bigots in that crowd, who have JUST confirmed EVERYTHING that the extremist clerics have been preaching about the racism inherent in Australian culture, you've just ENSURED the future of home-grown race related violence and terrorism.

-plaz out-

Werd up!

 

[Zero the hero]

please explain why I should reply to you?

You know what I hate, I hate when someone attempts to discredit someone else's point of view during a discussion about race by making them out to be a racist because some of their views may not exactly match the other persons. That pisses me off, that’s what I felt you did, and I think you're a jerk for doing it, and I told you so. Not to mention the fact that even after I told you that I didn't mean something in the way you claimed I did (even though I’m the one who said it?), you still insisted that that wasn't the case, and indeed, I that was what I meant? Which means that you are also calling me a liar. So, there are the reasons I called you a jerk, now either you can reply or not, that's up to you.

 

[thinctwo]

as rodney king was saying whilereginald denny was gettin beat down, cant we all just get along?

 

[katmeow]

Pleo - you might find this article of interest:

A no man's land in our ethnic mix - Gerard Henderson

According the the Bruce Baird MP for the area which includes the Sutherland Shire, Sutherland is around 90% Anglo-Celtic background. As a person who has lived in a neighbouring area of the shire for 25 years, I've had a lot of exposure to the culture of the place. I've spent a lot of time at the beaches out there and know a large number of people who live in the area. Although obviously you can't tar everyone with the same brush, I would definitely say that the dominant culture is one with an undercurrent of racist and homophobic attitudes combined with negative opinions toward multiculturalism and immigration.

The residents of beachside suburbs in Australia are traditionally territorial - this is not something new and in the past there have been many problems between differing youth cultures. I think this really sums it up well:

Beaches have strict rules of belonging that experienced beachgoers know. As a diehard surfer for more than two decades, I know how to read the waves and rips, what to wear, who I'm allowed to look at and how to look at them, and how to avoid stepping on someone else's turf. When I paddle around the surf or walk along the beach, nobody questions what I am doing there.

But if I was a girl without a "perfect" figure, a tourist family, or someone of a different ethnicity, it wouldn't all seem so obvious. The rules could seem strange and frightening. Despite the notion that the beach is the ultimate egalitarian place, they are spaces where some people can feel the least welcomed in Australia.

An expanding multicultural population has meant increasingly diverse groups of young people are frequenting beaches where the "rules" are made by others.

A glance is enough to remind them that they're not welcome on "our" beaches. Ideas about where you walk, swim, surf, how you dress, what kind of games you play and food you eat on the beach have evolved to fit a particularly Anglo-Australian view of the world.

From here

I'm not going to pretend that there have been no issues with various ethnic groups in the area, but I have equally experienced harassment from white males when going to the beach there... one of the reasons I prefer not to go out that way anymore. It's not a particularly welcoming atmosphere for all outsiders.

I work as a volunteer lifesaver down the south coast and I was appalled to hear about the attack on the lifesavers at Cronulla, but what followed has absolutely sickened me and made me feel ashamed to be Australian. To those who think that it was just designed to be a peaceful protest, you're totally kidding yourself. The text messages being circulated referred to it as a day for bashing the lebs/wogs. In my mind, if you were there hiding behind your Australian flag as you chanted "Fuck off lebs", you are just as guilty of inciting violence as those who threw the punches. Just for the record, I'm equally horrified by what has happened subsequently.

As has been stated a thousand times over in this thread, you simply cannot take the law into your own hands. Violence is not the fucking answer. Innocent people will always get caught up when vigilante style action such as this is taken.

Obviously there are problems from both sides. One of the boys I coach (who is 15 and greek) asked me yesterday if I went out to cronulla. I replied no and asked if he had. He said yes. When I asked why, he said he needed to go stick up for the wogs. I asked whether he was born in Australia and he said yes. I asked if wouldn't this make him Australian and he conceded possibly Greek Australia. When I asked why he went out there, he told me to bash some people. This was his idea of fun. He couldn't give me an answer when I asked how he thought violence was going to solve the issues at hand.

I think this is a major problem, that a lot of people involved do not have the foresight to move beyond the revenge mentality. Now we have groups from both sides planning and engaging in acts of retribution. There is no point blaming one side or the other, when both are at fault, nor is there any worth in justifying the mob behaviour by saying it was ok because two kids got bashed.

There are many things that could be said in the wash up of an event such as this. Perhaps the police should have moved the crowd on before things got out of hand, perhaps the bottle shops should have closed much earlier than they did, perhaps there should have been more police on hand to deal with the violence when it erupted. In any event, what's done is done and now the community must work out how to avoid confrontation like this in the future. How that will happen I honestly don't know, but at the very least, something needs to be done to stop the marginalisation of various ethnic groups which results in young males in particular acting out in an aggressive manner. All the groups involved in the events of the last week must accept some responsibility for their actions because we will get nowhere as long as one group continues to try to reclaim its streets for "Australians" and another reacts in retaliation to this.

 

[electreauxbella]

edit: sorry kids!

 

[Zero the hero]

What is good enough for those who you seemingly support is good enough for me to use in a sarcasm & irony context.

-Sigh- You see, the problem is that YOU keep telling me what, and who, I support, with out actually reading (obviously) anything that I've previously posted. I'm not going to explain anything to you again, if you want to know what my thoughts are on the subject it's there in black and white. Seriously dude, I can no longer be bothered replying to your posts as they've become a seriously frustrating waste of my time and energy, but I guess that's what you get when you try and discuss this sort of thing with a 16 yr. old. The most amusing thing so far has been YOU trying to explain how the world works to ME, that's rich...8)

 

[Pleonastic]

Thanks Kat.

Everyone, can we have more posts like that and less back and forth pissing into the wind? I tried to put it nicely before, but again, can the people who are just attacking each other and trying to prove who is "more wrong" just shut the fuck up. You've ALL started going around and around in fucking circles, and it's time to take a break. Calm the fuck down - it's clear nobody is going to back down on their point of view, so just leave it be.

 

[katmeow]

^^^ Sure you don't want to be a mod again?

 

[keystroke]

car burnings, people dying in stupid violence, and such happen when certain sports teams win titles. i know little of this, so pardon my ignorance.
how many people have died, etc, and how does this compare to the la riots after rodney king shit in 92?

no ones dead, it's nothing at all like the Rodney King thing in LA.

A Cronulla man attacked and bashed with steel rods by a gang of thugs during a second night of racial rioting has appealed for the violence to stop.

The 35-year-old electrician, who would identify himself only as Stephen, said he was attacked by a group of about 30 men of Middle Eastern appearance as he walked along The Kingsway at Cronulla about 10.30pm (AEDT) yesterday.

Stephen, who has a fractured left arm and cuts and bruises to his face, has been released from Sutherland Hospital after treatment.

He said he had just returned from a fishing trip when he was attacked on the way to a convenience store.

"I heard some shouting and screaming and the next thing I know the guys just got out of their cars and started hitting me," Stephen said.

"There was that many men they didn't actually all get room to try and hit me."

I suppose 30-on-1 is fair. In the Telegraph today a lady living on Maroubra Rd wrote in to say that last night she seen a carload of lebanese thugs smashing cars, jumping on roofs, bashing people and then a Police car entered the other end of the street - seen what was going on and turned around quickly.

 

[Son of Samurai]

Right, so now anyone who doesn't speak English should be bashed. Good one.

Thanks guys, you have all helped me understand the mentality behind these mob riots. That it is racism and intolerance, nothing more.

.....uhhh yeah. Like I really said that. Find me one place in my text that says anyone who does not speak english (you use a small e for the english language, just thought I'd let you know ) should be bashed. Go on, do it. You can't can you? Don't put fucking words in my mouth! As a mod you should know better and set the standard.

*edit* not necessary

 

[CutHere]

You know what I hate, I hate when someone attempts to discredit someone else's point of view during a discussion about race by making them out to be a racist because some of their views may not exactly match the other persons. That pisses me off, that’s what I felt you did, and I think you're a jerk for doing it, and I told you so. Not to mention the fact that even after I told you that I didn't mean something in the way you claimed I did (even though I’m the one who said it?), you still insisted that that wasn't the case, and indeed, I that was what I meant? Which means that you are also calling me a liar. So, there are the reasons I called you a jerk, now either you can reply or not, that's up to you.

Apart from wasting our time with completely irrelevant posts, you should really look in a mirror.

I'm not interested in calling you a racist but I do care if you try and justify mob violence. Quite frankly, you could have the swastika carved in to your forehead and I wouldn't really give a fuck.

 

[Son of Samurai]

So, how big of a riot you guys rekon it's gonna be when/if a muslim extremist blows up Sydney Rail or the Opera House or something similar?

 

[villz]

I got 2 things to say about this:

1. The stupidity of youth (from both the ethnic and bogan sides) is causing this.

2. Violence begets violence.

Keystroke, Officer_Chops & company - Both sides are wrong. Use the brains your parents gave you and realise that racism & more violence will not solve this problem. I'm not a hippie but what the fuck do you think you're going to accomplish other than to stir up more hatred, violence, rape, vandalism and property damage? You all need to grow up.

 

[CutHere]

^^ good post!

not only that but it is ruining Australia's international reputation

 

[keystroke]

both sides are wrong, villz, violence against innocent people is wrong no matter when. but if the police aren't going to do anything about the ethnic gang problem (and I assure you, they haven't for the last ten years) then I guess someone has to. the only people so far willing to do that are the locals.

how would you like your 14 year old daughter to have a large number of middle eastern men proposition her for sex while she's at the beach minding her own business and then when she rejects the offer they spit on her, abuse her and be absolute cockheads to her?

And just to prove that I have a sick sense of humour, I found this elsewhere:

yeah it was funny two pages ago when the original picture was posted.

 

[0ff1cer_ch0ps]

and im sure if you read the actual fuckin thread you would of seen that a page back?

yeah, im sure the cronulla boys dont want anymore violence, sunday was there day of protest and there has been nothing since... BUT

these middle eastern people attacking people on the street, hitting women and threating them with rape, busting up cars and shops...

 

[chugs]

-Sigh- You see, the problem is that YOU keep telling me what, and who, I support, with out actually reading (obviously) anything that I've previously posted. The most amusing thing so far has been YOU trying to explain how the world works to ME, that's rich...

you haven't said diddly, I've read your posts and all you do is nit-pick.

You claim to understand why the mob did what it did and argue that it was the segregation of certain ethnic communities, who are violent and ill-tempered who are directly responsible for this violence.

When people take this statement to it's logical conclusion (yes without you directly stating so) it becomes apparent that you're justifying the mob's attack.

Hell even with your differing opinion on Bush and the environment (which are all seemingly quite left-wing) you even got Keystroke, the master troll/right-winger of bluelight, agreeing with you.

Above all you feel that years of Arab's raping/beating people (I won't use the term "white people" since you don't exactly specify whether your just indignant with whites being the victims or if your also including Asians and other groups who are also victims of "lebs" attacking them) justifys the subsequent rage and violent attacks against these ethnic groups, i.e. all people from the middle east.

I don't see Asian's or Islanders out there fighting, when they've been equally hurt by violence to their persons by the groups the "mob" claim are responsible and should be taught some respect.

You continue to claim that because Middle eastern societies/countries are hostile to the west that it equally justify a hostile reaction from us. Again violence isn't going to calm the middle east, it isn't going to get us respect and above all it's not going to solve our problems here.

It's quite strange, and disheartening, that you can be so liberal on other topics yet swing violently to the right's myopic and very black and white view of this matter.

Anyway I've responded to posters who have stated similar beliefs. You can go read my previous posts.

Be-little me all you want, nitpick spelling, "sigh" and whine about being misunderstood but it won't win a argument. Isn't there are saying, something like "only small minds want always to be right", I think aptly describes your reaction in this matter.

I've had enough of this - back to work - no more posts from me however I will end this with:

The city will burn, people will die and all those who argue for more violence in order to teach those "lebs" some respect are wrong, stupid and completely lacking in any ability to understand the real causes of this mess.

 

[villz]

Yeh ok I skipped pages 9-13, yous were all starting to go round in circles abusing each other.

Keystroke & Chops - If the police aren't going to do anything there are about 15 ways a person in a democratic society can bring attention to, and help to fix the problem. Bringing the attention to the media and politicians is something that springs to mind.
Or if you're so passionate about the cause, why don't you become a copper yourself mate?