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Vent/Rant Thread vs I'll tell you how I really feel (Triggering Content)

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^ taper off them, yea it's going to suck but a slow taper off benzos might be in your best interest.

best wishes to you.
 
gr33n3y3z said:
^ taper off them, yea it's going to suck but a slow taper off benzos might be in your best interest.

best wishes to you.
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That's actually my biggest bitch. I've been at 7.5mg since December and its not getting any better. I started at 20mg of Valium on 9/17 and I was already in serious tolerance withdrawal. I just don't even see the point in getting off of them anymore. Maybe I should give up and go on a ridiculous Klonopin dose - at least I'd be able to leave my house again. :X

I feel like crap on them and feel even worse without them. So fuck it.
 
bagochina said:
It can fuck you up if you let it fuck you up. Went to catholic/private schools thru my younger schooling and switched to public schools thru high school. Catholic schools are a joke compared to what they used to be like, hearing stories about what my mom would tell me about the nuns tying her hand behind her back with a rope to force her to learn to write right handed because only the devil rights with his left hand. Getting slapped by the nuns with rulers, etc.

Still consider myself catholic to this day though albeit with a few added beliefs of my own. My parents were smart enough to move the family out of city life (grew up in River Forest) and into leafy suburbs where the only problem with life was drugs. Was threatened to be shipped off to military school during high school when I was heavily exploring psychedelics and starting dope, sometimes I wonder what my life would of been like if they did that? Even now I'm still contemplating going back to school to work on another degree and the main reason I feel like doing that is to challenge my mind. Always told myself oh I can't do that or I'm not going to do that. It feels good to push back those thoughts and try new things.


Aren't you in school at Univ. Of Chicago, Sarcophagus? That's pretty impressive.
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Yeah, Catholic schools really aren't that strict. And once I hit high school, I had gotten my bearings and was more able to handle adolescent stupidity, but I had a pretty rough time in middle school. I still don't understand why we as a society find it beneficial to lock hundreds of hormonal teenagers in a building together for 8 hours a day. I co-taught at a middle school for 6 months, and it's just nutty...

Yes, I am at UChicago, how'd you know? Hah, I know I've posted about it on BL before, but I feel like it was ages ago...It's a great school, but the work load is a nightmare. And since each term is only 11 weeks, they don't leave a lot of room for error. I ended up taking almost two years off to get my life in order, but I'm back (woot). And I've only got a couple of trimesters left...assuming I'm able to clean up the mess left by my recent emotional crisis (ugh). Seriously, who thought a trimester system was a good idea?
 
Remembered you mentioning it awhile back. Yeah I'm sure the workload is a nightmare.
 
MagickalKat777 said:
That's actually my biggest bitch. I've been at 7.5mg since December and its not getting any better. I started at 20mg of Valium on 9/17 and I was already in serious tolerance withdrawal. I just don't even see the point in getting off of them anymore. Maybe I should give up and go on a ridiculous Klonopin dose - at least I'd be able to leave my house again. :X

I feel like crap on them and feel even worse without them. So fuck it.
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That's how I felt on suboxone and I quit it.

You can do it man. Just keep remembering the long term gains for quitting.
 
Captain.Heroin said:
That's how I felt on suboxone and I quit it.

You can do it man. Just keep remembering the long term gains for quitting.
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But I can't be assured that there will be any... There is no guarantee that my anxiety will ever go away. I could very well be making the stupidest mistake of my life. Benzos produce much worse changes in the nervous system than opiates do through GABA downregulation and it takes forever for that process to reverse. And like everything, the longer you've been on them, the longer it takes to recover. I've been prescribed benzos daily since 2004 :|

I don't know. Something has to give. I mean who goes and wins disability along with 4 years of back pay and then goes suicidal? :|
 
Is it true that some people with other problems like psychiatric issues end up being addicted to something like opiates and benzos will almost never be able to get clean because it becomes the only thing that fixes their disorder?

I've got schizoaffective disorder and been off everything (besides psych meds) for over a year and have been sick since. I'm starting to think that there is no end to this. I started using kratom about a month ago and finally felt "normal" again and figured i was destined to be stuck to this shit for life. I stopped the kratom a few days ago and am sick as hell again. It's a never ending cycle.. life is passing me by as i sit around waiting to feel well enough to get back in it. I lost memory of 2 years due to clonazepam and phenazepam, Now i take etiz, couldn't beat that demon, benzos are MUCH harder than opiates to quit IMO.

I donno what im getting at here, maybe it is a question... Will the sickness end taking into consideration my "disorders"? I feel so hopeless. I don't think i can do this anymore. :|

EDIT: BTW my history of drug use is 12 years of OC's, Dope, Methadone, and Bupe .. benzos, about 6 years, every rx one plus phenazepam and etizolam.

The sad part bout that it being 12 years of addiction is im only 25 :( I donno how to even live sober. How to i break the chain to this cycle im biking?
 
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People with psychiatric disorders have a tendency to self medicate. It is especially common with bipolar, schizophrenia, and anxiety disorders. I fit two of those three and there are times where I would say that I have some level of schizo going on that likes to come out from time to time.

Whenever we find something that is comforting or works to take us away from our problems, we tend to hold onto it. I think that's human nature in general though and not really something that is limited to those with psychiatric conditions, it just is most likely worse with us especially when we try the other meds and can't handle the side effects.
 
MagickalKat777 said:
That's actually my biggest bitch. I've been at 7.5mg since December and its not getting any better. I started at 20mg of Valium on 9/17 and I was already in serious tolerance withdrawal. I just don't even see the point in getting off of them anymore. Maybe I should give up and go on a ridiculous Klonopin dose - at least I'd be able to leave my house again. :X

I feel like crap on them and feel even worse without them. So fuck it.
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I'm so sorry to hear you are struggling with benzos, I am too. I was on a stupid amount of etizolam, then switched to diazepam in September (2012!) to 30mgs of diazepam and am on 12mgs at the moment. Honestly, you are doing brilliantly and I am really impressed at how much you have come off! I keep getting stuck at certain dosages (before it was 15mgs), and everytime I would lower it would become an anxious and depressed mess that couldn't leave my bedroom. It sucks.

I would maybe think about going up to an amount you feel comfortable at, then stay at it and then slowly taper down again. I'm doing 1mg every 2 weeks and it seems okay. I know once you get to the smaller amounts it gets tougher, so slow it down.

You're really strong and I admire you for doing so well. Keep it up and don't give up. :)
 
I can't get comfortable enough to even attempt to sleep. I've been switching positions every few minutes for the past 4 hours. I don't see myself getting any sleep tonight.
 
kace said:
I'm so sorry to hear you are struggling with benzos, I am too. I was on a stupid amount of etizolam, then switched to diazepam in September (2012!) to 30mgs of diazepam and am on 12mgs at the moment. Honestly, you are doing brilliantly and I am really impressed at how much you have come off! I keep getting stuck at certain dosages (before it was 15mgs), and everytime I would lower it would become an anxious and depressed mess that couldn't leave my bedroom. It sucks.

I would maybe think about going up to an amount you feel comfortable at, then stay at it and then slowly taper down again. I'm doing 1mg every 2 weeks and it seems okay. I know once you get to the smaller amounts it gets tougher, so slow it down.

You're really strong and I admire you for doing so well. Keep it up and don't give up. :)
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Thanks for that, I really needed to hear it. Honestly I have a really hard time with it because I'm running low and I don't know what my psychiatrist is going to be supportive with. I plan to make a bulk order when I get my disability back pay so I can taper for months without having to worry about doctor cooperation but for right now... I'm just in hell.

Its good to know that getting stuck is normal. I tried going back up but found that it made me even more anxious each of the three times that I did it so it seems like I have some sort of sensitivity going on in my GABAergic system. The weird thing is that when they gave me Ativan in the hospital, it was very effective so it appears to be diazepam-specific. I've been thinking about switching over to Tranxene for the rest of my taper since nordiazepam/desmethyldiazepam hits more targets on the GABA-A receptor than Valium does. I don't know, I'm probably just stressing about nothing. I am just sick of being in my fucking room :(

7.5mg is my first time getting stuck... but it was a stuck that my psychiatrist caused to be honest. I was reading to cut down another 1.25mg in February but since I'm still not stable, she had me hold at 7.5mg for another month. I just want to get my life back... I've even stopped drinking and smoking cigarettes... 177 days each now... and I feel worse than if I was still doing them. That's what I'm struggling with.

The insomnia is a bitch too. -.-

Anyway, thanks again. I guess I just need to remember that this is going to take a long time - I've been on benzos daily since 2006 and was taking them at least twice a week back in 2004. Then all the alcohol on top of it.. *sigh*

Best of luck to you as well. I really want to do 1mg every 2 weeks but I need my doctor to give me 2mg pills. :|
 
^^

Hey MK777 ( sounds like a flight number )

I spent a few years hopelessly reliant on ever increasing amounts of illicit valium, it took 3 attempts to finally get off them.

As The Ashton Manual mentions if you use benzos daily for extended periods you are likely to suffer withdrawal symptoms simply from tolerance, it's a horrible trap that I wouldn't wish on anyone.

Looking back now I'm convinced the stuff was doing my anxiety and depression allot more harm than good and using benzos now, even in small quantities has very negatives effects for a number of days afterwards. It seems some can use them in moderation and report positive effects, I can't and it seems many that tend towards addictive behavior also have problems.

My taper rules have always been pretty simple once the schedule is drawn up, 'don't go back up on the dose' although freezing the taper at a dose for a while is fine. The key for me was gaining control over my intake and being conscious of it, don't stress over rushing to be totally off them, the dose you are on is well within the 'normal' therapeutic range.
 
Allein, there is no doubt in my mind that benzos have done nothing but make me worse over the years. Hell the whole mess started because I had surgery on my left lung and the Vicodin was giving me panic attacks so instead of just giving me morphine which didn't raise my anxiety at all, they started having me take .5mg of Xanax with each dose... so I went from a few times a week with ONE .5mg pill to FOUR .5mg pills a day for 6 weeks! I found I couldn't stop after that and I've been daily since.

I wouldn't so much mind being stuck at 7.5mg if it wasn't for the simple fact that my future is entirely held in the psychiatrist's hands... If she decides I'm not coming off fast enough, she pulls my prescription and I am left scrambling to find a new doctor to avoid a trip to the ER.

I've been hospitalized for withdrawal once and I've been through a failed rapid detox twice now. Slow and steady is going to be the only way I'll get off of benzos. I'm just having serious doubts as to my ability to actually succeed at getting off of them at this point.

To make matters worse, my psychiatrist is trying to get me to treat my bipolar disorder as well. Personally, since I stopped drinking I have only had two manic episodes that lasted a few days each and I think it is much more important to get me stable off of meds but getting a psychiatrist to go along with that... yeah...

If I had a supply of Valium lying around, I would be less bothered. I think that's really my biggest fear is running out. When I had my first appointment with this new psychiatrist, I made the mistake of telling her the truth about how much of it I had so she's tracking my usage to the pill which takes away my 15 day extra supply I like to have around. :\

I can tell you that I have never been addicted to anything compared to benzos. Nicotine I struggled with for years but I never really wanted to stop up until recently. Same thing with alcohol. I was able to kick both of those with maybe a week of REALLY nasty withdrawal and it was done. Benzos just drag and drag and drag. I lost count of how many times I've gone suicidal since starting my taper in September. Maybe I just went way too fast and I'm going to have to hold 7.5mg even longer or maybe I should go down after all to 7mg (a 5mg at night and 2mg in the morning). I'll talk with my psychiatrist when I see her and see what she thinks. I don't really think staying at 7.5mg is going to help me get any better? Ugh.

My final vent... I went to sleep at 9... which is unusual for me... and woke up at 1:30 because I had an anxiety attack and now I can't sleep. Damn it! >_<

Oh yeah as to my name, I've thought about using my mod name change but I've had it for so long... I'm not sure that I want to lose it. If I changed it, EtherealRemnant, Kinetik, Saeren, or Daxius would be the names I would pick from but I'm such an indecisive bastard that I could never figure it out anyway and you only get one change.
 
I did change my user name a while back, I'd had the other since 2005. The experience was ....over rated ;)

I'm with you on feeling like your being held to ransom by doctors, my Valium problem was entirely illicit so in that case it wasn't a problem but I'm currently on daily pain meds and it's been and is a constant struggle.

(my rant) Most recently I got my repeat prescription back with a stamp saying it needed review, I tried to make an appointment with my doctor and couldn't get one for 5 weeks...,...the prescription lasts 2:\

I managed to get it sorted but it's a horrible feeling and could easily push someone into sourcing medication elsewhere, which is a slippery slope to darkness
 
MagickalKat777, you're welcome! I'm glad I could help. I read your post and could relate to so much of what you said. You really are doing great though, you have to keep reminding yourself how far you have come. I'm getting incredibly sick to death of hibernating in my bedroom too. At awful times, it does make me miss being on a higher amount of benzos, because at least then I wouldn't be too anxious to just leave my house! It's really not worth it though, to go back to taking shit loads and being more dependent on them. Remind yourself of why you originally decided to taper and believe me, you are stronger than you think! Eventually your body will settle down and get used to the dose you're taking, and you will start to feel better and more at ease.

That's so impressive you've managed to give up smoking and drinking on top of this! Well done :). Have you noticed any improvements coming off them? For instance, your memory and general cognition skills? I really have, and my speech has improved dramatically. I know it feels like things won't improve, but I promise you that they will. It does just take time. It's always good to make small goals, like plan to leave your house to go to the shop, or go for a short walk or bike ride. I wear sunglasses and put headphones in when I go out, it helps with the anxiety.

Ah, the insomnia is so draining, isn't it? :( Are there no sleeping meds you can be prescribed to help you? I'm on Zopiclone, it's not particularly strong for me as it's linked to benzos, but it does do the trick. Sorry, I'm not familiar with the meds you mentioned, but I believe every person knows their body the best, and if it works for you, change on to a different med if you can. Just make sure the dose is equal to the amount of Valium your on.

Your psychiatrist sounds exactly like my doctor, haha. He keeps me at the same dose when I feel ready to go down, but when I'm not ready, insists on lowering it! Is there any chance you can switch to someone with more experience in this field? I would just be wary of having a large stash, as you might take too many if you're feeling low. And boy, why won't your doc giving you 2mgs?! That's ridiculous.

Thanks a lot and best of luck to you too! Please feel free to message me anytime. I lurk a lot but am usually online.:)
 
Yeah Allein, saw the name change. I think with me, MK777 makes me sound like a little kid... Which back in 2004 I was 19 and very much immature but now I'm like... wtf about it.

I hate doctors that do that shit. It happens all the time too! I used to make sure that I would refill my meds as early as I was allowed to (2 to 5 days depending on insurance and drug regulations) so I would always end up with extra pills to avoid running out. When I lost my insurance and my doctor dropped me, I had so much extra Klonopin between taking 2 pills a day instead of the 3 I was prescribed and early refills that I was able to go like 6 months without a Valium prescription until I was able to see a new doctor and get a Valium script again.

The whole prescription system is pretty fucked to be honest. But that's a rant for another day in and of itself.

kace - I had a whole huge post typed up and then whacked my trackpad and lost it so this is the much more brief version

In the way of improvements, the biggest thing that I've noticed is that my heart doesn't shoot up as high anymore. It makes it easier for me to handle panic attacks. I just curl up in a ball on my bed and put something mindless on the TV (King of the Hill usually) until it passes. I stopped compulsively checking my pulse. I used to check it so much I actually had an indentation on my right wrist that fit my left index and middle finger perfectly because I checked it probably 30 times a day. My brain is still completely fried though.

The insomnia is draining indeed. I have a few bottles of trazodone and I take it occasionally but when trazodone fails to work, the mCPP metabolite hits me and I feel miserable all night so I skip it unless I have something I absolutely HAVE to get up and do the next day.

The Tranxene is actually a prodrug to the Valium metabolite that we rely on to help us in withdrawal, desmethyldiazepam. While Valium has a 20-100 hour halflife, desmethyldiazepam has a 36-200 hour halflife. Tranxene is also less potent than Valium (15mg of Tranxene is equivalent to 10mg of Valium) so you can make smaller cuts. The downside is that the smallest pill is 5mg while the smallest Valium is 2mg so you have to switch to liquid titration at the end.

I actually really like my psychiatrist, she hasn't given me any indication that she is going to cut me off or otherwise screw me with the Valium, I'm just being paranoid. She IS dead set on getting me on a mood stabilizer, however, and that's not something that I want. Luckily for me the two that would require testing, Depakote and Lithium, I can't tolerate so I can just as easily fill the scripts and never take them which is likely what I will do. She didn't give me the 2mg pills because I still had plenty of 5s when I went to see her. She was actually being diligent and making sure not to give me an abusable amount of Valium. I went there with almost 2 months of my regular 4 5mg pills a day prescription worth of pills. I'm sure when the time is right she will give me the 2s without hesitation.

Feel free to PM me as well. I don't generally get so in depth about talking about my problems... Not really sure why, I guess because I like to do things on my own and don't like burdening other people or maybe I'm just a person that does everything himself. Who knows... But yeah, keep up the good fight :)
 
Dear Roommate who turned the thermostat down to 60 this mourning before leaving for work.

DONT DO THAT. YOU DONT PAY THE RENT, I DO. I allow you to split the bills and have your own room this does not mean you have control over the tempature in MY apartment. I pay 100% of the rent for everyone living here, I decide the heat, you pay your part of the bill thats how it works.

I woke up this mourning, on day 5 off Bupe somewhat sick. It didn't feel worse then normal but after drinking my AM Kratom I only felt kind of better. Well actually I felt all the way better, but I didn't realize this because I had the nastiest chills. I assumed the house was on its normal cycle and should be about 69F by noon. I was shocked, I had not felt chills this bad since my Oxy days. I had my blanket pulled so tight around me, I was cursing myself. I couldn't belive I was sick enough to be freezing at almost 70F indoors. Then I finally decide to go down into my freezing house to turn it up to something stupid, and I see you've dropped the fucking heat allllll the way down to 60????? You know I'm kicking subs this week! You know that makes me cold even when it's not cold! Why you gotta do that homie!

your going through a shitty break up so I'm just going to kindly remind you not to touch the heat. But if you do it again I'll break your fucking index finger.

/rant. Feeling better already.
 
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