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P&S Moderators: JackARoe | Cheshire_Kat
Veganism/vegetarianism and "ethical" lifestyle choices
- Thread starter swilow
- Start date
murphythecat
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Aug 27, 2011
- Messages
- 812
I belief its simply by lack of information. It takes quite a bit of reading to understand what the dharma really is. Before that, people have all sort of prejudice and misinformation. You need to know a lot about the system in order to be able to accept and understand what the buddhism/dharma really is. Its not something you can explain in a hour!
once you understand it intellectually, its a very logical and reasonable, very detailed approach to describe reality.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/ptf/dhamma/
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ebola?
Bluelight Crew
Off-topic:
It is a cliche (I think it caught on not only due to Freud's influence but also because of how conceptually concise it is in its explanation), but there are some experimental data coming out that corroborate such. Namely, they have run experiments involving a wide demographic of men across sexual orientations where various attitudes about sexuality were surveyed and then penile enlargement was measured (via a sensing elastic band) as a variety of pornographic images were shown. Among stated heterosexual males, there was a strong positive correlation between level of homophobia as indicated by survey (so explicit beliefs) and penile enlargement in response to gay male pornography. Yes, homophobic men became more aroused in response to gay porn.
Data on penile enlargement also indicated a high proportion response to gay porn among stated heterosexuals in general (I forget the specifics, but a reliable response ranging from mild to moderate appeared in somewhere between 10-50 percent of heterosexual participants), indicating a much higher rate of bisexual desire than is indicated by self-identification. I think this relates to what I consider to be a key beginning question of understanding human sexuality: given that we are so similar genetically to Bonobo Chimps, why aren't we rampantly bisexual like them? Bonobos are extremely promiscuous and often trade sexual favors for minor help from others, or to cement social bonding in mundane, routine ways (eg, you groomed me, so I'll give you a blow job).
I think that part of the answer lies in the importance of familial lines among humans, in terms of both cultural meaning and as anchoring the transfer of social power and wealth. This already presents an element of heteronormativity, since familial transfer of social resources is linked intimately to procreation. But I also think that unrelated aspects of our homophobic culture play a significant role. I think that a lot of straight men are compelled to reinterpret, repress, etc. all same sex desires as they pop up, in an attempt to affirm their heterosexuality, as is socially desired. This often manifests as social ridicule of perceived "sissies" (particularly during adolescence), particularly those to whom one is attracted, as these anxiogenic feelings are deflected into aggression. This is most manifest during adolescent development, from middle school to high school, but these practices continue (especially among less emotionally developed men, I think).
This points to a more general question: how can one best be an ally when a friend comes out to you? I've approached this matter through a process of trial and error, trying to begin from a standpoint of compassion, and trying to listen more than speak, but I still find the process a bit tricky to navigate. Why is it difficult? Well, I think that a major reason is that my friend's sexual orientation won't be particularly important to me (they're still my same friend, after all), but their coming out has entailed overcoming difficult emotional obstacles (and a good bit of courage on their part) and facing a large array of strong social responses to their sexual orientation from others on a day to day level (warranted or not, and even if just imagined, if they haven't yet come out to many others first), so it is important not to minimize these psychological and social obstacles he/she faces. . .
ebola
willow11 said:
It is a cliche (I think it caught on not only due to Freud's influence but also because of how conceptually concise it is in its explanation), but there are some experimental data coming out that corroborate such. Namely, they have run experiments involving a wide demographic of men across sexual orientations where various attitudes about sexuality were surveyed and then penile enlargement was measured (via a sensing elastic band) as a variety of pornographic images were shown. Among stated heterosexual males, there was a strong positive correlation between level of homophobia as indicated by survey (so explicit beliefs) and penile enlargement in response to gay male pornography. Yes, homophobic men became more aroused in response to gay porn.
Data on penile enlargement also indicated a high proportion response to gay porn among stated heterosexuals in general (I forget the specifics, but a reliable response ranging from mild to moderate appeared in somewhere between 10-50 percent of heterosexual participants), indicating a much higher rate of bisexual desire than is indicated by self-identification. I think this relates to what I consider to be a key beginning question of understanding human sexuality: given that we are so similar genetically to Bonobo Chimps, why aren't we rampantly bisexual like them? Bonobos are extremely promiscuous and often trade sexual favors for minor help from others, or to cement social bonding in mundane, routine ways (eg, you groomed me, so I'll give you a blow job).
I think that part of the answer lies in the importance of familial lines among humans, in terms of both cultural meaning and as anchoring the transfer of social power and wealth. This already presents an element of heteronormativity, since familial transfer of social resources is linked intimately to procreation. But I also think that unrelated aspects of our homophobic culture play a significant role. I think that a lot of straight men are compelled to reinterpret, repress, etc. all same sex desires as they pop up, in an attempt to affirm their heterosexuality, as is socially desired. This often manifests as social ridicule of perceived "sissies" (particularly during adolescence), particularly those to whom one is attracted, as these anxiogenic feelings are deflected into aggression. This is most manifest during adolescent development, from middle school to high school, but these practices continue (especially among less emotionally developed men, I think).
This points to a more general question: how can one best be an ally when a friend comes out to you? I've approached this matter through a process of trial and error, trying to begin from a standpoint of compassion, and trying to listen more than speak, but I still find the process a bit tricky to navigate. Why is it difficult? Well, I think that a major reason is that my friend's sexual orientation won't be particularly important to me (they're still my same friend, after all), but their coming out has entailed overcoming difficult emotional obstacles (and a good bit of courage on their part) and facing a large array of strong social responses to their sexual orientation from others on a day to day level (warranted or not, and even if just imagined, if they haven't yet come out to many others first), so it is important not to minimize these psychological and social obstacles he/she faces. . .
ebola
ForEverAfter
Ex-Bluelighter
Excellent post.
Bingo.
ebola? said:
Bingo.
Xorkoth
Bluelight Crew
Right on ebola. 
swilow
Bluelight Crew
ForEverAfter
Ex-Bluelighter
O/T
NSFW:
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i don't feel disgusted when i see two girls making out. now, i'm not wild about close ups on the vajay-jay, i am gay, but still, i can watch anything with clinical detachment. my one time experience play with breasts was okay - kinda nice, in a mommy way, i guess. what i'm saying is that i'm as far gay as it goes - i tried, after i knew i was gay, to get with a girl just because it's not fair i can't - but i can't, shit don't work. that's gay. i would assume straight is the same, but disgust? revulsion? no. that's not part of it.
i hate making assumption about other people's sexualities, but there are times when i trust my instincts better than another's self-awareness.
i hate making assumption about other people's sexualities, but there are times when i trust my instincts better than another's self-awareness.
This is a good site of recipes for high-end vegan food.
http://www.hellodelicious.info/
I'm especially interested in raw food, or food that is high in Prana. I eat mostly fresh fruit juices or smoothies, anyway, as I crave the life-force. It just gives you more vitality which makes you feel better and gives you energy (one reason children are so happy is they have so much vitality at their disposal). Especially when you also do Yoga or some kind of exercise that supports it.
The truth is that it is possible to live of vegan food and not miss anything in terms of taste or nutrition, it would even be an improvement for the majority, but it takes a lot of time and resources. If you could afford to spend as much as it takes and pay someone to do it for you there wouldn't be a problem, but it's almost impossible for the average person to prepare food for their family like that.
http://www.hellodelicious.info/
I'm especially interested in raw food, or food that is high in Prana. I eat mostly fresh fruit juices or smoothies, anyway, as I crave the life-force. It just gives you more vitality which makes you feel better and gives you energy (one reason children are so happy is they have so much vitality at their disposal). Especially when you also do Yoga or some kind of exercise that supports it.
The truth is that it is possible to live of vegan food and not miss anything in terms of taste or nutrition, it would even be an improvement for the majority, but it takes a lot of time and resources. If you could afford to spend as much as it takes and pay someone to do it for you there wouldn't be a problem, but it's almost impossible for the average person to prepare food for their family like that.
Xorkoth
Bluelight Crew
The hardest I ever got hit on was by a guy, I went to a bar with this girl I was on a date with and I didn't realize it was primarily a gay bar (it wouldn't have made me hesitate to go had I known though). He laid it on so thick, I decided to just let him continue until the girl came up to me (I was ordering drinks) and he was like, no, are you serious? Damn it!
It was nothing but a huge ego boost and I thanked him. But like tantric said, that shit don't work. Well, I've never tried, but thinking about the male body doesn't turn me on in the slightest... I'm just into women, it's how it is. There have been times I wished I was gay because it seemed like so much trouble to deal with women (it was really just the woman I was with though). I will admit the idea of sex or kissing or anything with a guy does seem a bit repulsive to me personally, I wouldn't try it just because it doesn't seem right for me. It doesn't disgust me at all to see two guys like that though, I just feel happy for them.This is a more spiritual take on these things.
http://onehart.info/wp-content/uploads/Eating-For-Ascension-by-Meg-Davis-PDF.pdf
I also like some of these ideas.
http://onehart.info/wp-content/uploads/Eating-For-Ascension-by-Meg-Davis-PDF.pdf
I also like some of these ideas.
Finally something from the World Health Organisation.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/a...-cigarettes-global-health-chiefs-declare.html
I've been waiting for this for a while but the meat industries are so powerful. Even if it should be obvious processed meat is one of the most cancer-causing things out there. Big suprise.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/a...-cigarettes-global-health-chiefs-declare.html
I've been waiting for this for a while but the meat industries are so powerful. Even if it should be obvious processed meat is one of the most cancer-causing things out there. Big suprise.
Shamandrums
Bluelighter
It's unethical to industrially produce animals for slaughter both for the environment & due to the cruel conditions that lead up to the killing. The methods alone are disgusting no matter how you wanna slice it! The other carnivores are not something causing an environmental & cruelty apocalypse, they kill & eat what they need, waste little, largely kill fast & meanwhile their prey live a life in nature. Last I checked, the over consumption of meat by humans is a health disaster to oneself. Killing an Elk for your own use, may have an "ethical" basis where production doesn't & it lives it's life in nature. The Slaughter itself, savagely (in)human is likely the 1st relief these creatures receive since birth. The fact of being raised as the big corps do, produces massive suffering, whether chained, caged for life, force fed, I know 1st hand from a large family of ranchers/chicken producers I personally can attest it is f-d up.
Methane, 25x more harmful greenhouse gas than carbon & the 100,000,000's head of cattle alone the US, Brazil, other big producers create this unsustainable greenhouse hoofprint let alone via the carbon needed moving the product & feed around. The projections of the required grazing land to keep up with demand, is not available & further unsustainable. This is grain used as feed could help the 100,000,000's starving people but instead goes to cattle etc. That it's has slowed, the burning of the Amazon basin for grazing, & in the end still leads to loss of Amazonian soils, which are especially incapable to hold the together for more than a few years, after a thin layer of cheap potash produced from burns, blows away forever, this eludes all common sense. That you can bet we’ve lost cancer cures & others while creating more cancer.
The failure of the eastern fisheries of Canada is also a lesson not learned (outside BC, & there just barely), as the loss of 90% of fish species traditionally used world-wide for human consumption means what? We stop at 95%?
I became a veggie, partly for what I believe are spiritual/humanistic reasons & also because I hate the taste of meat, it's the smoke & spices that make food awesome. My GF turned my onto vegan-ism & now I miss no food at all, as even mock back bacon is so real, I use it to fool people over & over. (Yves makes everything from bologna, pepperoni, sausages, ground round, to chicken nuggets not to be told from the taste/texture/look/convenience one grew up with & not the early veggie burgers experiences many people had, they have it down now.) BBQ it & you will miss no taste. It not sustainable, it's unethical to produce as it done, & we have a choice, & not long to embrace it.
Thanks to the thread’s author!
Methane, 25x more harmful greenhouse gas than carbon & the 100,000,000's head of cattle alone the US, Brazil, other big producers create this unsustainable greenhouse hoofprint let alone via the carbon needed moving the product & feed around. The projections of the required grazing land to keep up with demand, is not available & further unsustainable. This is grain used as feed could help the 100,000,000's starving people but instead goes to cattle etc. That it's has slowed, the burning of the Amazon basin for grazing, & in the end still leads to loss of Amazonian soils, which are especially incapable to hold the together for more than a few years, after a thin layer of cheap potash produced from burns, blows away forever, this eludes all common sense. That you can bet we’ve lost cancer cures & others while creating more cancer.
The failure of the eastern fisheries of Canada is also a lesson not learned (outside BC, & there just barely), as the loss of 90% of fish species traditionally used world-wide for human consumption means what? We stop at 95%?
I became a veggie, partly for what I believe are spiritual/humanistic reasons & also because I hate the taste of meat, it's the smoke & spices that make food awesome. My GF turned my onto vegan-ism & now I miss no food at all, as even mock back bacon is so real, I use it to fool people over & over. (Yves makes everything from bologna, pepperoni, sausages, ground round, to chicken nuggets not to be told from the taste/texture/look/convenience one grew up with & not the early veggie burgers experiences many people had, they have it down now.) BBQ it & you will miss no taste. It not sustainable, it's unethical to produce as it done, & we have a choice, & not long to embrace it.
Thanks to the thread’s author!
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I guess I've become a lacto-fruitarian. Since Christmas I've only been eating fruit and some wholemilk products. I seem to mostly want fruit and lived nearly only on fruit juice for 6 months. But I need some more nutrients so I drink some milk and cream.
Jabberwocky
Frumious Bandersnatch
Without being super strict about labels, I'm predominantly vegan, though when out and about I'll have the occasional slice of pizza with cheese on it or pastry with butter (it's really hard to find vegan options on the road that are satisfying). When I go to the grocery store I avoid all animal product. On thanksgiving my family talked me into having some turkey. I ate my fill but honestly didn't feel like " oh man, this is what I've been missing" or feel bad about it either. It was just meh, I like eating my way better. Saying I'm eating a predominantly vegan diet often elicits humorous reactions from people. It's got more stigma then saying "I'm gay" to the people around these parts.
I had to watch out about carbs. When I first transitioned into this diet I ate a lot of rice and that made me hungry all the time and I started to gain weight. Eventually I moderated carb intake and started drink a hemp protein shake every morning w/ banana and almond milk. Love it and it's normalized my metabolism. I eat a ton of veggies. what I don't eat I drink. Love my nutri-ninja blender for making vegetable smoothies. Takes about a month for every change in diet to take hold, but how I'm doing it now has dramatically increased my energy, I've lost weight, and I don't feel like I crave food but when I consume it I get a feeling of joy. To each their own but I'm really enjoying this change.
I had to watch out about carbs. When I first transitioned into this diet I ate a lot of rice and that made me hungry all the time and I started to gain weight. Eventually I moderated carb intake and started drink a hemp protein shake every morning w/ banana and almond milk. Love it and it's normalized my metabolism. I eat a ton of veggies. what I don't eat I drink. Love my nutri-ninja blender for making vegetable smoothies. Takes about a month for every change in diet to take hold, but how I'm doing it now has dramatically increased my energy, I've lost weight, and I don't feel like I crave food but when I consume it I get a feeling of joy. To each their own but I'm really enjoying this change.
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Foreigner
Bluelighter
Lately I've been trying the SCD diet, and it's been an educational experience.
I can't live without meat as I'm suffering from broad spectrum deficiency and bodily degeneration, and my body can't process vegetable products in their raw forms right now. A vegetarian or vegan diet would kill me right now. Just having bone marrow broth always available is so important and I am grateful to the animals that died so I could try to experience some healing.
I can't live without meat as I'm suffering from broad spectrum deficiency and bodily degeneration, and my body can't process vegetable products in their raw forms right now. A vegetarian or vegan diet would kill me right now. Just having bone marrow broth always available is so important and I am grateful to the animals that died so I could try to experience some healing.
do you have crohn's disease? otherwise i'm calling pure BS on this. cook your veggies, then, wtf?
are you a fucking vampire?
Jabberwocky
Frumious Bandersnatch
Why you gotta go there man? I'm hoping it's just ignorance on your part, but man, seems like you make it a habit. Whatever, people gonna treat you like a petulant child if that's what you're putting out there. It's not worth commenting on really, except to say it got under my skin some, and that's not easy to do. Please enjoy your soup Foreigner and get better for us now.
what are you talking about? ignorance? okay, look, there's two kinds of information, science and superstition. i used to call it 'voodoo', but that's an insult to a deep tradition. besides, i'm a big fan of Erzulie.
sounds like superstitious nonsense. in my own, charming way, i'm asking for medical details to support this. "broad spectrum deficiency" doesn't mean anything at all - it could mean that he's deficient in iodine, iron, zinc, calcium, selenium, fluorine, and vitamins A, B6, B12, B1, B2, B3, and C all at once, meaning he'd been eating nothing but cardboard and tapwater for about 2 yrs. Meat wouldn't cure that, but one of those horse vitamin shots would:
I take 'bodily degeneration' to mean becoming a couch potato. You can live on vitamin pills and sugar water for months. SUGAR is the fuel your body burns, and its vastly easier to convert to energy than meat is. Using proteins as a primary energy source can't possibly be healthy or easy on your system. All this is SCIENCE - not my opinion and no, it doesn't work differently on different people. That's the whole point of it being science.
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Jabberwocky
Frumious Bandersnatch
^ I was more speaking to the fact that one of our most prolific and intelligent Bluelighers is on chemotherapy right now and bravely facing their own mortality. You chose a crummy way to make your point