Veganism/vegetarianism and "ethical" lifestyle choices

[Xorkoth]

Some unpleasant people have moved into this thread... maybe we could cut that ridiculous shit-talking and personal attacking out and actually stay on topic?

 

[turkalurk]

isn't calling someone "unpleasant" a form of "shit" talking?

 

[para-thesis]

You were inviting dissenting opinions on the topic, so I provided. If you didnt want anyone disagreeing on your opinions, dont start an open forum, its as simple as that. And i'm having trouble understanding why its impossible for people to vote on which issues are the most important ones? Instead of constantly having to listen to someone's politically ideological problems when their party's in office.

 

[para-thesis]

lol.
please, tell me what you do in life to reduce african suffering?
why should you dont care about animals suffering? not because theres terrible things that is happening right now in the world to humans, doesnt meant that eating animals its okay. we are animals like they are.

I give to charities every single week, lol. what do you do? And please tell me the inverse, why should I worry about cows and pigs more than human beings?

 

[murphythecat]

I give to charities every single week, lol. what do you do? And please tell me the inverse, why should I worry about cows and pigs more than human beings?

lol

isn't calling someone "unpleasant" a form of "shit" talking?

lol

You were inviting dissenting opinions on the topic, so I provided. If you didnt want anyone disagreeing on your opinions, dont start an open forum, its as simple as that. And i'm having trouble understanding why its impossible for people to vote on which issues are the most important ones? Instead of constantly having to listen to someone's politically ideological problems when their party's in office.

we're convinced. you promoted such strong arguments! thanks for your contribution!

 

[nuttynutskin]

you do a fine job of that yourself. You want to write about your delusions of being asian, then you have to expect people are going to laugh.

Believe it or not I had not even seen that thread when I made my comment, it was just a coincidence. But yeah, I'm not going to take seriously at all someone who claims to be vegan and admits to consuming not only molluscs but wild game, and also themselves admits to being a troll.

exactly, from what your saying, I could deduce that you could just as well be pretending to be a vegan. You have no ethical reservations about deceiving people, so your word ought to be considered irrelevant.

Yup, based on his other postings it wouldn't surprise me either.

 

[ebola?]

I think if you were to look at issues and ethically choose which one's are more important to the world, yes, you have to pick and choose which ones are more important to take care of first.

Really? I don't eat meat, and it literally takes away zero time that could otherwise be devoted to other activities. No one's really been arguing that dietary practices trump other ethical concerns, as there's no reason that this argument needs to be made.

i don't pretend to know anything about you other than my opinion on the words you use. Whether you were lying when you said you were serious, or whether you are lying about it all being a joke, it remains consistent that you are willing to tell lies in pathological ways for what you claim to be your own amusement. You are even willing to undermine your girlfriend's trust in your word in pursuit of self pleasure. Yes, I get that this conversation does not please your ego. We get that you are pretty much admitting to being an internet troll so nothing you say can be taken seriously. I can move on now.

Honestly, you seem to be getting highly irritated that people are not taking offense at your posts. I find this one of the most insufferable of personality-traits, but that's just me; I hope that I've somehow misappraised the situation.

ebola

 

[para-thesis]

You however have spent (as well as your compatriots) a fair amount of time posting on it here

 

[ForEverAfter]

Of course we have: it's the topic at hand.

i'm having trouble understanding why its impossible for people to vote on which issues are the most important ones

Because minority opinions will not be represented.
See: history.

Who's to say that you will agree with the outcome of the vote?
What if the issues that you think are important aren't considered important?

Also, are you suggesting we shut down entire fields of study? And, what, do you think the people working in those fields will just move over to other "more worthwhile" fields?

People researching cures for rare disorders, for example.
Is that worthwhile? Because it's not going to get the vote if we have a finite number of causes to address?
What about homosexual rights? Is that really important?

How many slots are their available, in your theoretical system, for worthwhile causes?

 

[Journyman16]

what are you talking about. theres nothing that shows that foreverafter isnt vegan. if you refer to mollusk, you should do some research on the matter.

Well... actually... There is. :D

...
I still refer to myself as vegan, but I consume molluscs and (occasionally) wild game.
There's no point in being absolute about meat, when consuming some types of meat isn't ethically questionable (IMO).
I am not a vegan, I just refer to myself as one for convenience sake.
...

 

[ForEverAfter]

I made it clear - repeatedly - that, although it isn't technically vegan, the ethical considerations are the same... since molluscs don't have brains...

I still refer to myself as vegan, but I consume molluscs and (occasionally) wild game.

Funny, how you took that out of context.

For the last time: I'm not technically vegan, but there is no term for what I am. So, for convenience sake, I just say I'm vegan... Rather than being absolute about meat, I consume meat that does not contribute towards the suffering of animals...

Why is it so important for meat eaters to prove that I'm not (technically) vegan?
I am not vegan, and I've said that repeatedly.
I made an entire thread about it.

Nobody is making any effort to discredit willow as a vegan, since he consumes honey.

If I said I was gay and, once or twice in my lifetime, I had sex with women...
Then you might insist that I'm bisexual. And you might be right, technically.
But that doesn't prevent me from identifying as gay.

In the end, I don't care what you or anybody thinks about whether or not I'm a vegan.
You're not catching me out. I made a thread about it, before this thread existed, and I was very clear.
Can we stop the mind-numbing circular repetition, already?
I'm not going to stop referring to myself as vegan.
I don't care what anybody thinks about it.

 

[ebola?]

Why is it so important for meat eaters to prove that I'm not (technically) vegan?

It's just a straight-up ad-hominem; people seem fundamentally uneasy with the fact that hypocrisy doesn't invalidate one's argument.

ebola

 

[nuttynutskin]

Why is it so important for meat eaters to prove that I'm not (technically) vegan?

Because you claim to be a vegan and then admit that you aren't. What do you expect people are going to say? Your pseudo intellectual/psychosis induced rantings aren't contributing to anything useful as far as I can tell. After doing some browsing all of your arguments in threads pretty much read the same. I'm sorry to break it to you but you're not some misunderstood genius who is going to save the planet if only someone would listen to you. If you would just quit trying to revolutionize words that already have a clear cut meaning people would probably leave you alone.

 

[swilow]

Does anyone think that maybe there are more important things to be worried about than the ethical treatment of a cow? Like, other human beings, for just one example. Or maybe the over-fishing of the ocean which constitutes a huge impact on both the livelyhood of millions of humans and the ecosystem which makes up 3/4 of the world's surface area?

I agree that they are very important topics indeed. Overfishing is one of the primary reasons I don't eat fish.

But we can discuss both things if you want. Why not start a thread on such a topic? I am guessing you are aware that the reason we are discussing veganism/vegetarianism in this thread is because that is the topic I introduced. You can do that too, but I don't think this is the right thread for it.

But, as a quick question, do you think that we shouldn't try and do what we think is right because there are greater wrongs out there? Do you think we cannot discuss 'lesser' lifeforms whilst our own is suffering? My motivation for being a vegan is to avoid causing more damage to our only home. This is appealing to me, because by adopting certain dietary practises, I feel like I can have a positive effect on both animals and humans. My main argument against modern farming is because it is contributing to our possible ensuing doom. Can you see how being respectiful and compassionate to animals can also benefit our breed of animal?

Side-note: I'm not sure why you are choosing to be so confrontational. You don't benefit your case at all, and in fact imply a certain hyper-jumpy sensitivity to it; when insult is found where none exists, it is the subject projecting their own guilt onto others by imaginging their condemnation of you. No vegan should look down on an omnivore who is doing the natural thing. Speaking for myself, I don't look down at anyone in this thread for their diet (I reserve the right to judge people by how they treat others though...) and I don't understand why some meat-eaters are being so aggressive, as if they are truly opposed to vegetarianism/veganism. That's an odd thing to be opposed to IMO.

doesn't matter if you fooled the others with your back pedaling. You clearly implied you were being serious. Once you realized how ridiculous you were being, then you made it into a joke. You aren't fooling me.

But he has fooled you. He's not a troll and you think he is because you are unwilling to listen to what he actually says in your determination to insult him. You are, as appears to be increasingly common, incorrect in your assertion. I seriously think you need to back off a bit. Your contributions are becoming boring and off-topic most of the time, because they are repetitive and fighting against statements no-one has made. This has to be tedious for you to write because it reads that way.

isn't calling someone "unpleasant" a form of "shit" talking?

No, its not. Shit-talking is when you call someone an "ass".

Because you claim to be a vegan and then admit that you aren't. What do you expect people are going to say? Your pseudo intellectual/psychosis induced rantings aren't contributing to anything useful as far as I can tell. After doing some browsing all of your arguments in threads pretty much read the same. I'm sorry to break it to you but you're not some misunderstood genius who is going to save the planet if only someone would listen to you. If you would just quit trying to revolutionize words that already have a clear cut meaning people would probably leave you alone.

He apparently made two claims. I think you might be running with the claim that you feel projects the most shit onto him because you don't care about this topic remotely and just want to pick holes in people. You require a certain integrity that you don't convincingly display, so it just feels like you are being unreasonable in your comments rather then actively seeking the truth.

 

[ForEverAfter]

NSFW:

i think you might be running with the claim that you feel projects the most shit onto him because you don't care about this topic remotely and just want to pick holes in people. You require a certain integrity that you don't convincingly display, so it just feels like you are being unreasonable in your comments rather then actively seeking the truth.

qft

Because you claim to be a vegan and then admit that you aren't. What do you expect people are going to say? Your pseudo intellectual/psychosis induced rantings aren't contributing to anything useful as far as I can tell. After doing some browsing all of your arguments in threads pretty much read the same. I'm sorry to break it to...

Try and understand this:
I don't care what you think of me, or my posts.
I don't understand why you care enough about me, or my posts, to bother "browsing".



Find something better to do, maybe?
(You can keep wasting your time, of course. It's entirely up to you.)

...

(I'm wrapping all off topic discussion with nsfw tags, to reduce forum congestion.)

 

[Abject]

Can I have the last post yet???

 

[murphythecat]

Well... actually... There is. :D

the mollusk debate in vegan cirlcle is very real and theres a lot of talking about whether or not vegan should eat mollusk and valid argument for eating mollusk. do some rersearch about it.
eating mollusk would be one of the few exception a vegan could possibly eat and still be considered vegan.

 

[ebola?]

I'll come out: I consider cnidarians okay to eat.

ebola

 

[Xorkoth]

I think people should work on bettering the problems in the world that they either feel strongly about or feel they actually can do something about. For some, this is being vegetarian/vegan to stop contributing to the problems facing the world from the factory farming industries. For some, this is not eating fish to not contribute to overfishing. For some, this is not using fossil fuels when at all possible to not contribute to carbon dioxide poisoning of the atmosphere. For some, this is devoting their lives to an issue such as malaria or AIDS or whatever, and working on a cure. For some, this is doing the same towards a rare, uncommon but deadly disease that a relative succumbed to. If we all work on different things, a lot of different things will get better. It makes no sense to say, hey, this issue I feel is more important, so let's ignore everything else until it's fixed, then move on to the next thing I think is most important, etc. Yes, human suffering is a huge issue, one I care more about than animal suffering. I care more about the destruction of the planet than any animal's (including human's) suffering because it will lead to the greatest level of suffering/extinction. But it's the opposite of sensible for me to condemn vegans for not worrying about the most important issue we face. As if that's even true. I don't know how to prevent us from destroying ourselves by wanton excess in burning fossil fuels and raping the planet of life, but I do know some ways to help reduce the suffering of animals. I am not vegan or even vegetarian but I don't support factory farming, I eat meat from free-range animals. Should I stop doing that and go back to factory-farmed because it's not the most important issue in the world I am addressing, or because I'm not doing absolutely everything I can about it?

 

[swilow]

^Good post. The attitude is also seen when people wash their hands of an issue as it is too hard. The weight of suffering on earth makes doing ANYTHING about it worthwhile. If we were to wait for all human pain and distress to be eradicated before we try and enact other positive changes, then we are fucking doomed.