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Veganism/vegetarianism and "ethical" lifestyle choices

As much as I believe anything to be so.

If you're sitting in a communal living room in a share-house, and it has become - through acts of drug induced depravity - more like a swamp than a room, you could just sit around and say, "We're never going to clean this up!"... And you could be right. But, if you're wrong, when it is clean, you will still reap the benefits.
 
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ForEverAfter said:
Whether or not there was a literal Garden of Eden is irrelevant.
There was a time before murder, when we belonged to the animal kingdom.
Chimps kill. They do not murder. Same goes for sharks.
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Not according to those who believe in the Garden as the origin of Man - the Garden is their only relevancy.

You walk a fine line trying to define murder as somehow different from killing. Chimps mourn their dead but they still kill others. And I said nothing about sharks. And I note you don't address the issue of early hominids' violence?
ForEverAfter said:
God made us like this, yes.
He also made us question what we are doing and what we should be doing.
We have been taken way off track, so that we realize we're off track and realign accordingly.
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You can't have it both ways - if God made us like this then our acts are entirely both natural AND his fault, not ours. Because if God made us and the Garden myth is some kind of truth, God DIDN'T make us to question what we are and should be doing - in fact we got kicked out of the Garden for STEALING that ability.
ForEverAfter said:
Since quantum field mechanics proves that there are multiple possible outcomes to every situation, it seems that - perhaps - our decisions dictate whether or not we travel in one direction or another... I'm not entirely convinced of this, but I don't think you can say that the entire field of physics indicates that we don't have free will. You're not a physicist and there hasn't been an overwhelming consensus that I'm aware of.

I guess what you mean is your interpretation of modern physics (or your selective readings) indicate - to you - that free will doesn't exist? You don't really speak for the international scientific community... In fact, you commonly disagree with the global consensus.
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I guess what you mean is your belief in what the MSM tells you about quantum theory leads you to state so absolutely that there are many possible outcomes? It might be comforting to believe such things rather than think about the limitations of the 'free will' ideas, but quantum theory is ONLY a theory and we are a VERY long way from being able to declare any such certainty.

And I never said the entire field of physics does anything. You seem to read what you want to be able to mount sarcastic attacks instead of reading what is really said. Maybe try to have a conversation some time?
 
ForEverAfter said:
As much as I believe anything to be so.

If you're sitting in a communal living room in a share-house, and it has become - through acts of drug induced depravity - more like a swamp than a room, you could just sit around and say, "We're never going to clean this up!"... And you could be right. But, if you're wrong, when it is clean, you will still reap the benefits.
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You don't really know anything about how I live, or what I do.
 
Journeyman,

I'm a little tired of trying to explain the mythological functionality of the Garden of Eden to you.
You appear intent on misinterpreting it... and, I can only speculate as to why this is so.

I never said the entire field of physics does anything.
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Yes you did. You said that physics (as a field presumably) tends towards there being no free will. Here it is:

Well it is debatable (in a literal sense) as to whether we actually have free will. Physics tends towards the 'No' response.
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...

You seem to read what you want to be able to mount sarcastic attacks instead of reading what is really said. Maybe try to have a conversation some time?
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Nothing I said (to you) was remotely sarcastic. Read it again, if you don't believe me.
 
I took this

"That's just an easy way to justify not contributing to the turnaround."

as you saying I am not trying to contribute. You should see how much trash I throw away.
 
I truly wish to avoid suffering to all beings especially the most innocent, children and animals. And if it can't be avoided, indeed I can do my part which I do daily, helping them and not eating them for God's sake. Ever look into an animals eyes? They are live beings like all of us and deserve compassion and respect.
Those that hunt for kill, sport - I will never understand and I cannot be friends most often with folks of this horrible mindset… There is something missing there indeed… and it saddens me deeply <3
 
I took this "That's just an easy way to justify not contributing to the turnaround." as you saying I am not trying to contribute.
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You're (apparently) content with contributing towards the suffering of animals... and you justify this, in part, by suggesting that the problem is so vast that it cannot be resolved without a massive drop in Earth's human population... I find this attitude, when applied to anything, not just animal cruelty, troublesome...

I mean, it's unlikely that the human race will make it to the end of the universe. But that is the future.
You can't justify the present by predicting the future.

Since we'll be extinct one day, what should we do?
Go crazy? Rape? Murder? Steal?
We're all going to die anyway!
So, fuck it!
etc.
 
Apparently?
Again here is an example of how little people's receivers pick up on. So selective.
 
Unless you only use/eat animal products that have been privately farmed, then - yes - consuming meat is the "cut off" for whether or not you contribute to the suffering caused by the meat industry...
 
Oh I thought we were talking about the whole shebang.

Well, I'll say that I suffer if I eat plant food, to varying degrees, as I've repeatedly shared, but I don't suffer if I eat chicken like that.

I've spent thousands of dollars trying to find things that work (including supplements which I hate taking and would rather not take at all...). The first psychic I went to told me he was seeing a vision of me bringing bags of groceries home to get home and nothing was in the bags. It resonated.

The chicken I eat is organic and has a rating of 3. I'd like to find 4-5. I also live in a metro of over a million, so farms are a little ways away. But, I'm curious if I can get closer to 5 rating chicken.

But everything I buy is organic. No sprays. No GMOs. I take a bag of trash out every two weeks or so. I recycle everything else. I avoid plastic wherever possible. I don't use any cosmetic products, chemicals, or anything. I do all of this for me... But it aligns with sustainability, the direction.
 
I've never heard of a medical condition that requires people to consume animal products in order to avoid feeling sick. What is the condition, if you don't mind me asking?

...

Your waste/recycling efforts sound impressive, by the way.... By sustainability - though - do you mean that recycling helps sustain the human race and being vegetarian only serves to reduce the suffering of non-humans?
 
Hypersensitive immune system. I'm not sure what to call it.

My dad was in Vietnam and had dioxin exposure, and it is linked to hypersensitive conditions/asthma, in children of the veterans. I don't have proof that this is the cause, but I think it is due to exposure to toxins, hormone disruptors, pesticides, herbicides, sugar, antibiotics... There are a number of potential causes/factors, but I don't know.

Growing up right next to farms that are sprayed with all sorts of stuff and a golf course within walking distance wasn't good either. But as I said I can't pin it on any one thing. Culmination.

My brother had breasts and has obesity problems. I'm pretty sure dioxin has played a role, but I'm not entirely sure. Could be chance, but considering my own issues it would seem we are both out of regulation. My sister didn't have any issues. Females are often in ways stronger however- I seem to remember reading.

I forgive a lot and am sometimes not the guy who tells you to kill yourself, and who imagines the earth being scorched in a wave of hell-fire that somehow only takes most humans (and only often my first girlfriend- a nurse, and my sister and her children save the rest because they are lights in my life), but then some fucker lights a scented candle where I can't easily escape, like my apartment block and it enters the common hall or my apartment, or sprays air freshener and it makes me want to smash things and murder. My face and mouth go on fire. I feel assaulted. I just fucking hate people sometimes. In these moments, to me, they are threats, and I clearly see their death as justified... Just like an insect that bites me, or if I am a spider, or snake, a human who threatens my death- I bite them. In those moments, I don't care that they are ignorant. They have me cornered. It is isolating, and testing.

Dating is very difficult. We bond over food.
And I like to smell the female... Not her perfume. My choices are very slim, coming from, well, thinking I had a lot more.
 
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Maybe you can't live, practically, without eating meat... in which case, you're exempt as far as I'm concerned.

I'm not convinced that you've tried everything, though, because I've worked with many people with severely compromised immune systems and we've always managed to find a solution... There are vegan full-nutrition pastes (they taste worse than they sound) that are - relatively - easy on the stomach.

I forgive a lot and am sometimes not the guy who tells you to kill yourself, and who imagines the earth being scorched in a wave of hell-fire that somehow only takes most humans (and only often my first girlfriend- a nurse, and my sister and her children save the rest because they are lights in my life), but then some fucker lights a scented candle or sprays air freshener and it makes me want to smash everything and murder. My face and mouth go on fire. I feel assaulted. I just fucking hate people sometimes. In these moments to me, they are threats, and I clearly see their death as justified... Just like an insect that bites me, or if I am a spider, a human who threatens my death- I bite them. In those moments, I don't care that they are ignorant. They have me cornered. It is isolating, and testing.
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I can relate, to some extent... although I don't get as angry as I used to. I don't think it achieves anything, so I'm working on it... and I recognize that reacting angrily to somebody doing something stupid is ironic because the reaction itself is stupid and I was just contributing to the problem... You refer to "ignorant" people: but, what makes you better than them? You're ignorant about race issues, as far as many members of this forum are concerned, and they react to you the same way you react to people that you perceive to be ignorant...

You should try to chill out, when it comes to stuff that angers you. So should everyone. (Me too.)
You're just allowing it to anger you more; instead, allow it to anger you less... if you can.

:)
 
That is all you can do. If you want to be a vegan/vegetarian, I'd genuinely like to help you work out what exactly you're intolerant to and how it might be possible to avoid those foods while maintaining a healthy vegan/vegetarian diet... This is a genuine offer. If you're interested, send me a PM with a short list of the foods that you have the worst reactions to and I'll try to work out what the common denominator is.

I've heard of people who are intolerant / allergic to: fruit / wheat / dairy and specific nuts / vegetables, but I've never encountered anyone who is intolerant of "most" plants... It's difficult, sometimes, to pinpoint the allergy because we tend not to consume food as separate ingredients. With salad, for example, you might only have to remove a couple of the ingredients without compromising the overall nutritional balance of the meal.

I can relate, by the way... I'm gluten intolerant and my mother is allergic to sunlight (of all things!).
 
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