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Veganism/vegetarianism and "ethical" lifestyle choices

^I've experienced that sort of lethargy, and I did find that taking an iron supplement helped. Perhaps try that? I would suggest liquid if you can stomach it as it seems to cause less constipation, but with my nervous tummy I find tablets are best :) Also, get onto some protein shakes, that will also help with tiredness and recovery. It is essential that you eat as completely as possible, otherwise your health will suffer. When I was recovering from my addictions and injuries acquired during them, I decided to eat free range chicken for about 3 months; there is no point in taking a stand or trying to make something better if you doing so makes you worse.

Good luck with it Flickering :) <3
 
I've experienced that sort of lethargy, and I did find that taking an iron supplement helped. Perhaps try that? I would suggest liquid if you can stomach it as it seems to cause less constipation
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Or, better yet, just eat a balanced diet with lots of iron-rich food.
Vegans have to take (some) supplements, but vegetarians don't.
 
If it is unethical and immoral to kill another animal, surely it is just as immoral to stand by while other animals kill each other? If it is our ethical duty to protect all life, why are we not concerned with the rest of the carnivore population? It is just as bad to be a witness to a crime as it is to be the perpetrator if you had the means to stop it.

I have respect for all life in the universe, even plant life. The more botany knowledge evolves, the more we are beginning to recognise they are not simply a passive organism. The extensive root systems resemble the synaptic networks of neurones in a brain. We are now aware that plants will often communicate to other plants near by, warning of insect attacks. Genetically related plants will often recognise each other and adjust where they grow, while actively attempting to over grow unrelated neighbours. Of course this then leaves us with the dilemma of what the fuck can we eat if we suddenly accept plant life as an equal. Until we start extracting nutrients from the atmosphere and rock minerals we might be ethically fucked.

I am not American, but every year we celebrate a Thanksgiving with our children where we give thanks as appreciation to all animals that we sacrifice each year to survive. I see nothing wrong with eating animals provided you are respectful and acknowledge their lives. It is the way of the Universe for one life to be consumed so another can live. I see nothing unethical to be part of this cycle. I see no reason why parasitic worms and fungal infections being treated for survival should not be considered the same as a fish killed for sustenance.
 
One Thousand Words said:
If it is unethical and immoral to kill another animal, surely it is just as immoral to stand by while other animals kill each other? If it is our ethical duty to protect all life, why are we not concerned with the rest of the carnivore population? It is just as bad to be a witness to a crime as it is to be the perpetrator if you had the means to stop it.

I have respect for all life in the universe, even plant life. The more botany knowledge evolves, the more we are beginning to recognise they are not simply a passive organism. The extensive root systems resemble the synaptic networks of neurones in a brain. We are now aware that plants will often communicate to other plants near by, warning of insect attacks. Genetically related plants will often recognise each other and adjust where they grow, while actively attempting to over grow unrelated neighbours. Of course this then leaves us with the dilemma of what the fuck can we eat if we suddenly accept plant life as an equal. Until we start extracting nutrients from the atmosphere and rock minerals we might be ethically fucked.

I am not American, but every year we celebrate a Thanksgiving with our children where we give thanks as appreciation to all animals that we sacrifice each year to survive. I see nothing wrong with eating animals provided you are respectful and acknowledge their lives. It is the way of the Universe for one life to be consumed so another can live. I see nothing unethical to be part of this cycle. I see no reason why parasitic worms and fungal infections being treated for survival should not be considered the same as a fish killed for sustenance.
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I may be wrong but I don't think anyone said it is unethical to kill animals - just that the meat industry is unethical - and it really is..

Look up Earthlings (think it might be on youtube) to get a better understanding of why the meat we consume is unethical.
 
what unethical about eating eggs that are sourced from happy chickens? milk sourced from happy cows?

i still eat meat when it is around, but i want to reduce the amount i eat to being very little, because i prefer how my body feels when i eat very little meat.

i wouldn't mind being vegetarian but i am not educated enough on diet to be able to transition yet, and living at home means i feel like an ass when i turn down pasta sauce because there is meatball in it, or soup with beef/chicken stock.

i have a problem with vegans/vegetarians who are angry about people who eat meat, and they spread their hate/anger to the people around them. or turn it into a political ideology, i think life is so subjective, there isn't really a definitive answer as to whether its wrong to eat meat.
 
Cows need to be constantly pregnant to produce milk.

But no there's nothing wrong with eating happy eggs or drinking happy milk.. nobody said there was O_o

Chances are though - If you got those products from a supermarket then they're not happy milk eggs.. Even if there is a pretty freerange logo on them.
 
well i would assume vegans think there is something wrong with it if they abstain from both of those things.

like if i had some chickens which i raised with love in my back yard, if i offered an omelette to a vegan they would decline.

is it a all or nothing thing, where it just makes things simpler if you say no to all of that product regardless of its origins.
 
Mysterie said:
i wouldn't mind being vegetarian but i am not educated enough on diet to be able to transition yet, and living at home means i feel like an ass when i turn down pasta sauce because there is meatball in it, or soup with beef/chicken stock.
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I have lots of experience in preparing vegetarian food. You don't need to be deprived and it can also be much better than low-quality meat courses. You mostly need to add salt and fat, as that's what gives flavour to meat and what you crave from it, and some kind of flavour.

You usually need to use some dairy to flavour the food. Cheese, butter, milk, creme, sour cream. Pepper and things that give flavour like onions and peppers. There are many things you can make so you wouldn't miss meat.

- Nutroast
- Pasta or noodles without meat
- Pizza with vegetables
- Potato-dish without meat
- Hot or cold sandwich
- Rice-dish without meat
- Hot or cold salad
- Scrambled eggs with nuts and vegetables
- Grilled cheese as meat substitute
- Roasted walnuts and onions (cottage cheese) as meat substitute

You just need to prepare more for yourself as there's not so much to buy (you can always eat things like chips, deep-fried cheese, meatless pizza, etc.)

I will write down some good recipes when I have time.
 
Ninae said:
You mostly need to add salt and fat, as that's what gives flavour to meat and what you crave from it
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lol'd again
also you need salt and fat to funtion healthily/live so that's why you'd crave it when you're deficient

also eating animal product? eggs and dairy are somehow better than meat? where's the logic?
 
I didn't say we don't, I said it's mostly the tastes we crave from meat, so as long as this is satisfied you don't feel deprived.

It's a lot harder to become vegan than vegetarian but becoming vegetarian is a good start. That is like saying "What is the point of not buying fur when you buy leather?" At least you help to reduce the killing and suffering of animals somehow. And putting down the meat industry would be a good start.
 
That's what I was laughing at, pal. Have you ever looked at the nutritional information of meats before? Or any other food you're mentioning? There's hardly any salt in meat, guy. You'd also be hard pressed to find a cut of meat with more fat than roasted walnuts or deep fried cheese..
The main thing is your idea of what constitutes the flavour of meat. The deliciousness of animal fat is stronger in fattier cuts of meat but that's not "the taste of meat" and salt is added to meat, just like pepper and other seasonings. Saying the taste of meat comes from salt and fat is like me saying the taste of salad comes from vinegar/the dressing and the water in the plant matter. Just drink diluted vinegar, that's the flavour you're missing!!
Can't touch on the fur/leather and vego/vegan thing, other than farming being the issue and not the killing itself imo.
 
It's a good philosophy for someone to manage to stick to giving up meat as opposed to eating just bolied vegetables which most couldn't manage. It actually makes a huge difference in practice and is a key to being able to live off vegetarian cuisine.

But if everyone gave up consuming animal products the industries would just collapse. The millions of vegetarians in the world means there is a need for less animals to be bred for slaughter. And the suffering of animals in the world and wanting to do something to reduce it isn't really something to laugh about.

Anyway, I have no interest in arguing with people who hate vegetarians and feel the need to ridicule them without them having said anything to them. Yes, you must be superior as you choose not to live as a vegetarian, and clearly have the right to look down on anyone who does. Fine by me.
 
He didn't ridicule vegetarians Ninae.. And he never said he hates them.

Seriously this warped perception you get of people who disagree with what you say is fckin mental.. You're accusing him of the same things you accuse me of doing.. all he done was point out the flaws in your claim.. Welcome to a discussion.
 
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I don't care, I was just pointing out his attitude. I've received so much abuse by now it hardly registers. I just took notice of you in particular as you're so relentless about it and tend to ruin threads (and don't start that argument again).

At least I can get over it and don't terrorise everyone who offends me on PM.
 
this
everything is wrong about eating another being. everything about it is wrong. At least vegetable, tofu, stuff like that arent beings really attached to themselves. but animals are attached to their life just like us. killing them to eat them is sadly and logically very immoral
Ninae said:
This is really a simple issue.

Imagine another higher evolved species came to our world. They would be significantly superior to us in terms of intelligence, culture, etc. and would equate us with animals they had the natural right to capture and exploit in any way that they wanted.

Only I doubt there would be anyone who saw "nothing spiritually wrong" with us being reduced to that or just accepted the survival-of-the-fittest regime. I would bet most would cry out "Where is God?" in that scenario (in fact, in situations like that people tend to blame God).

But there is no real difference to us and animals being treated that way (except in our minds). It's not like we matter more to God than animals. They're more like creatures placed in our care who we have failed.

Still, animals forgive us for this. They have never-ending forgiveness because they're in a way closer to the divine than we are (they also don't blame God which is another thing they have to their advantage).
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well, you wouldnt find it fair to be captured and kill to feed someone else would you? you would want him to eat something other then yourself and would findit very cruel to be his meal...
your cousciousness is not very different then a animal consciousness. Just like you, the animal feel fear, pain, ect. killing them is immoral just like it would be immoral to kill you because you would suffer from it.
 
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