red22
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Nov 23, 2009
- Messages
- 1,200
I know people who are offering ayahuasca ceremony with MDMA. And I'm just kind of like, wow, that seems a bit far out there, and knowing the person's not a pharmacist or a doctor or anything, so I kind of found it to be a bit of a risky combination to start introducing people to, but do we know of any casualties from that combination?
Drug Interactions with Ayahuasca - The Good, the Bad & the Spiritual | Ben Malcolm, 2021-07-19, @EntheoNation Lorna Liana, 29:38–30:16
My lack of further experience with pure harmaline derives from my having been engaged, since the time of the above research, in the study of harmaline combinations: harmaline-MDA, harmaline-TMA[1], harmaline-mescaline and others.
[1] TMA: trimethoxyamphetamine.
The Healing Journey: New Approaches to Consciousness. Claudio Naranjo. 1973. Ballantine Books. SBN: 345-24328-5-150 4. Harmaline and the Collective Unconscious, p. 121
I've mixed MDMA and syrian rue before on several occasions, taking the rue either before or at the same time as the MDMA. I have also mixed Syrian rue with another phenethylamine, mescaline.
Neither caused any problems at all (although when I mixed it with mescaline, I did end up puking, but that happens to me with rue most times anyway, and the mescaline+rue puking was much milder than any tryptamine+rue combination has ever caused). In the case of mixing it with MDMA, it was quite enjoyable and something I will undoubtedly do again. It produces a pretty strong potentiation and adds a new (and quite profound) earthy spiritual dimension to the experience.
The one caution is to use low doses of MDMA. In high enough doses, MDMA itself can kill - as can most amphetamine derivatives. Taking MDMA with an MAOI will lower the overdose threshhold since you are potentiating its effects. If you choose to mix MDMA with Syrian rue, start with no more than half your usual dose of MDMA.
Murple. Combining Ecstasy with Syrian Rue: An Experience with Ecstasy (MDMA) & Syrian Rue. 2001-07-17. Erowid, exp8184
Z.. "Short and Comfy: An Experience with MDMA, Syrian Rue & Alcohol (exp43802)". Erowid.org. Nov 8, 2005
Debaser. "Something Quite Stupid: An Experience with Ecstasy (MDMA) & Syrian Rue (exp1814)". Erowid.org. Jun 14, 2000
Ganesha. "Ultra Alone: An Experience with Syrian Rue, MDMA & LSD (exp95421)". Erowid.org. Jun 23, 2021
Mr. Hausmann. "Bad Day, Dangerous Experiment: An Experience with Syrian Rue, MDMA & Mushrooms (exp111677)". Erowid.org. May 1, 2018
Persistent. "Too Far: An Experience with MDMA, Alcohol, Syrian Rue, California Poppy, Cannabis, & Kava (exp10661)". Erowid.org. Jul 16, 2003
I know some people who regularly use caapi extract to potentiate MDMA with very positive results. No negative reports.
Use Caapi only, no Rue and keep dosage low, start with 1/4th of your usual dose of MDMA as a test run.
doubledog, 2025-04-20, https://www.bluelight.org/community/threads/945930/post-16253391
Yes, also low dose DMT is sometimes in the mix, but I do not have enough knowledge to comment.
Some people like it, but it does not seem to me that MDMA and DMT go well together.
https://www.bluelight.org/community/threads/945930/post-16253408
I have tried very tiny amounts of MDMA (like 5mg) while on a modest dose of harmalas and even that felt like a fairly decent spike in blood pressure. It was okay, but I don’t want to experiment with it any further, I feel like it was a silly thing to do.
Bardy, 2024-08-22, https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/28919371#28919371
Yeah, below threshold doesn’t mean you won’t feel anything though. I’m not sure where they get their threshold numbers, but I can often feel effects below threshold.
But yeah, it would have definitely made it more potent. It just felt like a slight speedy stimulation for quite a while.
I wouldn’t do it again though, not sure it was worth it. And it’s a bit too risky for my liking
Bady, 2024-09-27, https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/28964370#28964370
Also, I’ve done about 5-10mg MDMA with harmalas and it felt significantly stronger than it would have by itself. I wouldn’t bother going any higher than that because I feel like the negative effects would start to really outweigh the positives. Negative effects include rapid heartbeat, muscle tension and anxiety to name a few. All these negatives occur at lower dosages in the absence of the positive effects as far as I can tell.
Bardy, 2024-10-22, https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/28995221#28995221
Over the summer I was mixing a lot of mdma with them and probably the only thing that saved me from the storm myself is that I already know I can’t handle amphetamines well so I was only taking like 25 mg at a time.
SpecialistAd8861, 2024-09-18, reddit, r/harmalas
It potentiated it a lot more than I first noticed I’ll say that much; I ended up mixing the two for like 6 weeks through this summer, at least three or four days a week. It was my friends that had to point out I was starting to act like I was twacked again. Fr fr I wouldn’t recommend it unless you’re really into mdma, and even then tread very carefully (2024-09-21)
First time I came face to face with God in any sort of lucid state was through blasts of dmt/harmala freebases mixed with dabs out of my cold starter roughly 5 hours into a 1/4 gram of mescaline; while listening to the Wu Wei stories vol. 1 by John redfern and Alan watts. (2024-09-21)
Using mescaline as a substitute for DMT in ayahuasca
Ok tonight I did an experiment and I took 20g-fresh of caapi WITH 80mg of mdma (the pill is tested with reagant). There were no negative symptoms and no potentiation noted. It was even weaker than normal. This leads me to believe that the combination is only dangerous when under full MAOI (or prior to it) and if you have waited a day or even 12 hours from full MAOI then you are perfectly fine.
PsychoKinesiS, 2014-12-26, https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/21026615#21026615
I've combined rue with coke, 6-apb, various psychedelics, beer, benzos, amphetamines. Nothing bad has happened yet.
revive_iain_banks, 2024-03-10, https://www.reddit.com/r/harmalas/s/NcVGmfXO1u
Blog: Taking MDMA and a MAOI. @clandestinechemistry2861. 2018-08-17. YouTube
ᴡᴀʀɴɪɴɢ The person who uploaded this video included these two reports in the description:
Death following ingestion of MDMA (ecstasy) and moclobemide. Vuori, E., Henry, J. A., Ojanperä, I., Nieminen, R., Savolainen, T., Wahlsten, P., & Jäntti, M. (2003). Addiction (Abingdon, England), 98(3), 365–368. doi:10.1046/j.1360-0443.2003.00292.x
Serotonin toxicity involving MDMA (ecstasy) and moclobemide. Pilgrim, J. L., Gerostamoulos, D., Woodford, N., & Drummer, O. H. (2012). Forensic science international, 215(1-3), 184–188. doi:10.1016/j.forsciint.2011.04.008
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Alright well I am still alive, so I'll bump this thread
I was on a steady dose of 60mg phenelzine and took 75mg MDMA with a 35mg redose and rolled pretty good, did not throw up or experience any extreme heat or appear to have even come close to serotonin syndrome.
2 weeks after that I tried 10mg 2cb and it was pretty weak (to be expected), felt like 15mg just extended
A week after I tried 20mg 2cb and it hit pretty hard, felt like at least 30mg and lasted a long time
On an unrelated note I'm not taking phenelzine anymore and have no more plans on attempting to mix MAOI's to potentiate Phenylamines, but it was a fun little experiment and it does work provided you adjust dosages to account for the MAOI, as the dose is always going to be the thing that makes it dangerous or not
To be clear I am NOT recommending anyone to try this, it is dangerous to mix MAOI's and MDMA and people have died doing it, taking normal doses of MDMA and end up with SS.
Cheers
-----------------------------------------------------------------
TrancedOutBrah, 2025-04-16, https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/29189984#29189984
More details ⇩
-----------------------------------------------------------------
I just recently started using TCP, I'm on my 4th day and I've had a lot more energy and strangely enough my libido has been off the charts, something that was the exact opposite of phenelzine. I have not combined any drug with TCP yet, I was just mentioning all the various MAOI's I've tried as they all have had a very unique kind of feeling to them. I will know more about TCP in a month or two when it's effect will peak. Let me know how your TCP experience goes as well.
As far as phenelzine and MDMA goes, the experience was much longer than normal, a normal roll for me is about 6 hours or so and that's with a redose. I felt the effects of MDMA for another 2 hours extra or so.
My normal dose for MDMA is typically 150-175mg MDMA with a 75mg redose and it's probably a 6 hour experience.
With 60mg phenelzine and MDMA, I had used 75mg with a ~35mg redose and it was about the same in terms of intensity, but the intensity was prolonged and going back to sobriety felt more gradual. About a 8 hour experience. I did not experience any comedown of the sort, but I normally never do as long as I keep my doses low and spread out my use. I will note that I normally get sexual/horny off MDMA and well, there certainly was none of that, but phenelzine absolutely tanked my libido.
MDMA itself has MAOI-A properties, as well as being a triple monoamine releaser and reuptake inhibitor which is why it's so incredibly dangerous to mix it with a MAOI, but as always, the dose makes the poison. I actually pondered the idea after reading Dr. Gillman stating that the most relevant point of contention would be the dosing level in terms of using MAOI's with things ill advised. He was right, I went over every possible MDMA toxicity combination with MAOI and they were all using normal or higher doses.
I went in with the notion that MDMA already has MAOI properties, tuning the dose down and using less and introducing a MAOI would allow MDMA to persist longer, release a lesser amount at a time but retain more due to the MAOI/Reuptake inhibition.
I had a great time and I'm not dead. I call that a win.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
TrancedOutBrah, 2025-04-19, https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/29193409#29193409
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Ayahuasca con coca or cocahuasca is made by cooking Banisteriopsis caapi and chakruna together with plenty of coca leaves.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Christian Rätsch. ETHNOBOTANICA AYAHUASCA / COCA: THE “LEAF OF LIFE” [Ayahuasca: Rituals, Potions and Visionary Art from the Amazon. Adelaars, A., Müeller-Ebeling, C., Rätsch, C. 2016. Divine Arts. ISBN: 9781611250510]
Drug Interactions with Ayahuasca - The Good, the Bad & the Spiritual | Ben Malcolm, 2021-07-19, @EntheoNation Lorna Liana, 29:38–30:16
My lack of further experience with pure harmaline derives from my having been engaged, since the time of the above research, in the study of harmaline combinations: harmaline-MDA, harmaline-TMA[1], harmaline-mescaline and others.
[1] TMA: trimethoxyamphetamine.
The Healing Journey: New Approaches to Consciousness. Claudio Naranjo. 1973. Ballantine Books. SBN: 345-24328-5-150 4. Harmaline and the Collective Unconscious, p. 121
I've mixed MDMA and syrian rue before on several occasions, taking the rue either before or at the same time as the MDMA. I have also mixed Syrian rue with another phenethylamine, mescaline.
Neither caused any problems at all (although when I mixed it with mescaline, I did end up puking, but that happens to me with rue most times anyway, and the mescaline+rue puking was much milder than any tryptamine+rue combination has ever caused). In the case of mixing it with MDMA, it was quite enjoyable and something I will undoubtedly do again. It produces a pretty strong potentiation and adds a new (and quite profound) earthy spiritual dimension to the experience.
The one caution is to use low doses of MDMA. In high enough doses, MDMA itself can kill - as can most amphetamine derivatives. Taking MDMA with an MAOI will lower the overdose threshhold since you are potentiating its effects. If you choose to mix MDMA with Syrian rue, start with no more than half your usual dose of MDMA.
Murple. Combining Ecstasy with Syrian Rue: An Experience with Ecstasy (MDMA) & Syrian Rue. 2001-07-17. Erowid, exp8184
Z.. "Short and Comfy: An Experience with MDMA, Syrian Rue & Alcohol (exp43802)". Erowid.org. Nov 8, 2005
Debaser. "Something Quite Stupid: An Experience with Ecstasy (MDMA) & Syrian Rue (exp1814)". Erowid.org. Jun 14, 2000
Ganesha. "Ultra Alone: An Experience with Syrian Rue, MDMA & LSD (exp95421)". Erowid.org. Jun 23, 2021
Mr. Hausmann. "Bad Day, Dangerous Experiment: An Experience with Syrian Rue, MDMA & Mushrooms (exp111677)". Erowid.org. May 1, 2018
Persistent. "Too Far: An Experience with MDMA, Alcohol, Syrian Rue, California Poppy, Cannabis, & Kava (exp10661)". Erowid.org. Jul 16, 2003
I know some people who regularly use caapi extract to potentiate MDMA with very positive results. No negative reports.
Use Caapi only, no Rue and keep dosage low, start with 1/4th of your usual dose of MDMA as a test run.
doubledog, 2025-04-20, https://www.bluelight.org/community/threads/945930/post-16253391
Yes, also low dose DMT is sometimes in the mix, but I do not have enough knowledge to comment.
Some people like it, but it does not seem to me that MDMA and DMT go well together.
https://www.bluelight.org/community/threads/945930/post-16253408
I have tried very tiny amounts of MDMA (like 5mg) while on a modest dose of harmalas and even that felt like a fairly decent spike in blood pressure. It was okay, but I don’t want to experiment with it any further, I feel like it was a silly thing to do.
Bardy, 2024-08-22, https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/28919371#28919371
Yeah, below threshold doesn’t mean you won’t feel anything though. I’m not sure where they get their threshold numbers, but I can often feel effects below threshold.
But yeah, it would have definitely made it more potent. It just felt like a slight speedy stimulation for quite a while.
I wouldn’t do it again though, not sure it was worth it. And it’s a bit too risky for my liking
Bady, 2024-09-27, https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/28964370#28964370
Also, I’ve done about 5-10mg MDMA with harmalas and it felt significantly stronger than it would have by itself. I wouldn’t bother going any higher than that because I feel like the negative effects would start to really outweigh the positives. Negative effects include rapid heartbeat, muscle tension and anxiety to name a few. All these negatives occur at lower dosages in the absence of the positive effects as far as I can tell.
Bardy, 2024-10-22, https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/28995221#28995221
Over the summer I was mixing a lot of mdma with them and probably the only thing that saved me from the storm myself is that I already know I can’t handle amphetamines well so I was only taking like 25 mg at a time.
SpecialistAd8861, 2024-09-18, reddit, r/harmalas
It potentiated it a lot more than I first noticed I’ll say that much; I ended up mixing the two for like 6 weeks through this summer, at least three or four days a week. It was my friends that had to point out I was starting to act like I was twacked again. Fr fr I wouldn’t recommend it unless you’re really into mdma, and even then tread very carefully (2024-09-21)
First time I came face to face with God in any sort of lucid state was through blasts of dmt/harmala freebases mixed with dabs out of my cold starter roughly 5 hours into a 1/4 gram of mescaline; while listening to the Wu Wei stories vol. 1 by John redfern and Alan watts. (2024-09-21)
Using mescaline as a substitute for DMT in ayahuasca
Ok tonight I did an experiment and I took 20g-fresh of caapi WITH 80mg of mdma (the pill is tested with reagant). There were no negative symptoms and no potentiation noted. It was even weaker than normal. This leads me to believe that the combination is only dangerous when under full MAOI (or prior to it) and if you have waited a day or even 12 hours from full MAOI then you are perfectly fine.
PsychoKinesiS, 2014-12-26, https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/21026615#21026615
I've combined rue with coke, 6-apb, various psychedelics, beer, benzos, amphetamines. Nothing bad has happened yet.
revive_iain_banks, 2024-03-10, https://www.reddit.com/r/harmalas/s/NcVGmfXO1u
Blog: Taking MDMA and a MAOI. @clandestinechemistry2861. 2018-08-17. YouTube
ᴡᴀʀɴɪɴɢ The person who uploaded this video included these two reports in the description:
Death following ingestion of MDMA (ecstasy) and moclobemide. Vuori, E., Henry, J. A., Ojanperä, I., Nieminen, R., Savolainen, T., Wahlsten, P., & Jäntti, M. (2003). Addiction (Abingdon, England), 98(3), 365–368. doi:10.1046/j.1360-0443.2003.00292.x
Serotonin toxicity involving MDMA (ecstasy) and moclobemide. Pilgrim, J. L., Gerostamoulos, D., Woodford, N., & Drummer, O. H. (2012). Forensic science international, 215(1-3), 184–188. doi:10.1016/j.forsciint.2011.04.008
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Alright well I am still alive, so I'll bump this thread
I was on a steady dose of 60mg phenelzine and took 75mg MDMA with a 35mg redose and rolled pretty good, did not throw up or experience any extreme heat or appear to have even come close to serotonin syndrome.
2 weeks after that I tried 10mg 2cb and it was pretty weak (to be expected), felt like 15mg just extended
A week after I tried 20mg 2cb and it hit pretty hard, felt like at least 30mg and lasted a long time
On an unrelated note I'm not taking phenelzine anymore and have no more plans on attempting to mix MAOI's to potentiate Phenylamines, but it was a fun little experiment and it does work provided you adjust dosages to account for the MAOI, as the dose is always going to be the thing that makes it dangerous or not
To be clear I am NOT recommending anyone to try this, it is dangerous to mix MAOI's and MDMA and people have died doing it, taking normal doses of MDMA and end up with SS.
Cheers
-----------------------------------------------------------------
TrancedOutBrah, 2025-04-16, https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/29189984#29189984
More details ⇩
-----------------------------------------------------------------
I just recently started using TCP, I'm on my 4th day and I've had a lot more energy and strangely enough my libido has been off the charts, something that was the exact opposite of phenelzine. I have not combined any drug with TCP yet, I was just mentioning all the various MAOI's I've tried as they all have had a very unique kind of feeling to them. I will know more about TCP in a month or two when it's effect will peak. Let me know how your TCP experience goes as well.
As far as phenelzine and MDMA goes, the experience was much longer than normal, a normal roll for me is about 6 hours or so and that's with a redose. I felt the effects of MDMA for another 2 hours extra or so.
My normal dose for MDMA is typically 150-175mg MDMA with a 75mg redose and it's probably a 6 hour experience.
With 60mg phenelzine and MDMA, I had used 75mg with a ~35mg redose and it was about the same in terms of intensity, but the intensity was prolonged and going back to sobriety felt more gradual. About a 8 hour experience. I did not experience any comedown of the sort, but I normally never do as long as I keep my doses low and spread out my use. I will note that I normally get sexual/horny off MDMA and well, there certainly was none of that, but phenelzine absolutely tanked my libido.
MDMA itself has MAOI-A properties, as well as being a triple monoamine releaser and reuptake inhibitor which is why it's so incredibly dangerous to mix it with a MAOI, but as always, the dose makes the poison. I actually pondered the idea after reading Dr. Gillman stating that the most relevant point of contention would be the dosing level in terms of using MAOI's with things ill advised. He was right, I went over every possible MDMA toxicity combination with MAOI and they were all using normal or higher doses.
I went in with the notion that MDMA already has MAOI properties, tuning the dose down and using less and introducing a MAOI would allow MDMA to persist longer, release a lesser amount at a time but retain more due to the MAOI/Reuptake inhibition.
I had a great time and I'm not dead. I call that a win.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
TrancedOutBrah, 2025-04-19, https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/29193409#29193409
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Ayahuasca con coca or cocahuasca is made by cooking Banisteriopsis caapi and chakruna together with plenty of coca leaves.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Christian Rätsch. ETHNOBOTANICA AYAHUASCA / COCA: THE “LEAF OF LIFE” [Ayahuasca: Rituals, Potions and Visionary Art from the Amazon. Adelaars, A., Müeller-Ebeling, C., Rätsch, C. 2016. Divine Arts. ISBN: 9781611250510]
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