Tryptamines Using MDMA as a substitute for DMT in ayahuasca

[red22]

I know people who are offering ayahuasca ceremony with MDMA. And I'm just kind of like, wow, that seems a bit far out there, and knowing the person's not a pharmacist or a doctor or anything, so I kind of found it to be a bit of a risky combination to start introducing people to, but do we know of any casualties from that combination?

Drug Interactions with Ayahuasca - The Good, the Bad & the Spiritual | Ben Malcolm, 2021-07-19, @EntheoNatione. Lorna Liana, 29:38–30:16



My lack of further experience with pure harmaline derives from my having been engaged, since the time of the above research, in the study of harmaline combinations: harmaline-MDA, harmaline-TMA¹, harmaline-mescaline and others.

¹ TMA: trimethoxyamphetamine.

Claudio Naranjo. The Healing Journey: New Approaches to Consciousness. 1973. Ballantine Books. SBN: 345-24328-5-150. Chapter 4. Harmaline and the Collective Unconscious, page 121



I've mixed MDMA and syrian rue before on several occasions, taking the rue either before or at the same time as the MDMA. I have also mixed Syrian rue with another phenethylamine, mescaline.

Neither caused any problems at all (although when I mixed it with mescaline, I did end up puking, but that happens to me with rue most times anyway, and the mescaline+rue puking was much milder than any tryptamine+rue combination has ever caused). In the case of mixing it with MDMA, it was quite enjoyable and something I will undoubtedly do again. It produces a pretty strong potentiation and adds a new (and quite profound) earthy spiritual dimension to the experience.

The one caution is to use low doses of MDMA. In high enough doses, MDMA itself can kill - as can most amphetamine derivatives. Taking MDMA with an MAOI will lower the overdose threshhold since you are potentiating its effects. If you choose to mix MDMA with Syrian rue, start with no more than half your usual dose of MDMA.

Murple. Combining Ecstasy with Syrian Rue: An Experience with Ecstasy (MDMA) & Syrian Rue. 2001-07-17. Erowid, exp8184


Z.. "Short and Comfy: An Experience with MDMA, Syrian Rue & Alcohol (exp43802)". Erowid.org. Nov 8, 2005

Debaser. "Something Quite Stupid: An Experience with Ecstasy (MDMA) & Syrian Rue (exp1814)". Erowid.org. Jun 14, 2000

Ganesha. "Ultra Alone: An Experience with Syrian Rue, MDMA & LSD (exp95421)". Erowid.org. Jun 23, 2021

Mr. Hausmann. "Bad Day, Dangerous Experiment: An Experience with Syrian Rue, MDMA & Mushrooms (exp111677)". Erowid.org. May 1, 2018

Persistent. "Too Far: An Experience with MDMA, Alcohol, Syrian Rue, California Poppy, Cannabis, & Kava (exp10661)". Erowid.org. Jul 16, 2003



I know some people who regularly use caapi extract to potentiate MDMA with very positive results. No negative reports.
Use Caapi only, no Rue and keep dosage low, start with 1/4th of your usual dose of MDMA as a test run.

doubledog, 2025-04-20, https://www.bluelight.org/community/threads/945930/post-16253391

Yes, also low dose DMT is sometimes in the mix, but I do not have enough knowledge to comment.
Some people like it, but it does not seem to me that MDMA and DMT go well together.
https://www.bluelight.org/community/threads/945930/post-16253408



Over the summer I was mixing a lot of mdma with them and probably the only thing that saved me from the storm myself is that I already know I can’t handle amphetamines well so I was only taking like 25 mg at a time.

SpecialistAd8861, 2024-09-18, reddit, r/harmalas

It potentiated it a lot more than I first noticed I’ll say that much; I ended up mixing the two for like 6 weeks through this summer, at least three or four days a week. It was my friends that had to point out I was starting to act like I was twacked again. Fr fr I wouldn’t recommend it unless you’re really into mdma, and even then tread very carefully (2024-09-21)

First time I came face to face with God in any sort of lucid state was through blasts of dmt/harmala freebases mixed with dabs out of my cold starter roughly 5 hours into a 1/4 gram of mescaline; while listening to the Wu Wei stories vol. 1 by John redfern and Alan watts. (2024-09-21)

Using mescaline as a substitute for DMT in ayahuasca



Ok tonight I did an experiment and I took 20g-fresh of caapi WITH 80mg of mdma (the pill is tested with reagant). There were no negative symptoms and no potentiation noted. It was even weaker than normal. This leads me to believe that the combination is only dangerous when under full MAOI (or prior to it) and if you have waited a day or even 12 hours from full MAOI then you are perfectly fine.

PsychoKinesiS, 2014-12-26, https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/21026615#21026615


Related info:


Bardy, 2024-08-22 & 2024-09-27, The Shroomery

"I have tried very tiny amounts of MDMA (like 5mg) while on a modest dose of harmalas …"



I've combined rue with coke, 6-apb, various psychedelics, beer, benzos, amphetamines. Nothing bad has happened yet.

revive_iain_banks, 2024-03-10, https://www.reddit.com/r/harmalas/s/NcVGmfXO1u



Blog: Taking MDMA and a MAOI. @clandestinechemistry2861. 2018-08-17. YouTube
ᴡᴀʀɴɪɴɢ The person who uploaded this video included these two reports in the description:

Death following ingestion of MDMA (ecstasy) and moclobemide. Vuori, E., Henry, J. A., Ojanperä, I., Nieminen, R., Savolainen, T., Wahlsten, P., & Jäntti, M. (2003). Addiction (Abingdon, England), 98(3), 365–368. doi:10.1046/j.1360-0443.2003.00292.x

Serotonin toxicity involving MDMA (ecstasy) and moclobemide. Pilgrim, J. L., Gerostamoulos, D., Woodford, N., & Drummer, O. H. (2012). Forensic science international, 215(1-3), 184–188. doi:10.1016/j.forsciint.2011.04.008



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Alright well I am still alive, so I'll bump this thread

I was on a steady dose of 60mg phenelzine and took 75mg MDMA with a 35mg redose and rolled pretty good, did not throw up or experience any extreme heat or appear to have even come close to serotonin syndrome.

2 weeks after that I tried 10mg 2cb and it was pretty weak (to be expected), felt like 15mg just extended

A week after I tried 20mg 2cb and it hit pretty hard, felt like at least 30mg and lasted a long time

On an unrelated note I'm not taking phenelzine anymore and have no more plans on attempting to mix MAOI's to potentiate Phenylamines, but it was a fun little experiment and it does work provided you adjust dosages to account for the MAOI, as the dose is always going to be the thing that makes it dangerous or not

To be clear I am NOT recommending anyone to try this, it is dangerous to mix MAOI's and MDMA and people have died doing it, taking normal doses of MDMA and end up with SS.

Cheers
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TrancedOutBrah, 2025-04-16, https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/29189984#29189984

More details ⇩
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I just recently started using TCP, I'm on my 4th day and I've had a lot more energy and strangely enough my libido has been off the charts, something that was the exact opposite of phenelzine. I have not combined any drug with TCP yet, I was just mentioning all the various MAOI's I've tried as they all have had a very unique kind of feeling to them. I will know more about TCP in a month or two when it's effect will peak. Let me know how your TCP experience goes as well.

As far as phenelzine and MDMA goes, the experience was much longer than normal, a normal roll for me is about 6 hours or so and that's with a redose. I felt the effects of MDMA for another 2 hours extra or so.

My normal dose for MDMA is typically 150-175mg MDMA with a 75mg redose and it's probably a 6 hour experience.

With 60mg phenelzine and MDMA, I had used 75mg with a ~35mg redose and it was about the same in terms of intensity, but the intensity was prolonged and going back to sobriety felt more gradual. About a 8 hour experience. I did not experience any comedown of the sort, but I normally never do as long as I keep my doses low and spread out my use. I will note that I normally get sexual/horny off MDMA and well, there certainly was none of that, but phenelzine absolutely tanked my libido.

MDMA itself has MAOI-A properties, as well as being a triple monoamine releaser and reuptake inhibitor which is why it's so incredibly dangerous to mix it with a MAOI, but as always, the dose makes the poison. I actually pondered the idea after reading Dr. Gillman stating that the most relevant point of contention would be the dosing level in terms of using MAOI's with things ill advised. He was right, I went over every possible MDMA toxicity combination with MAOI and they were all using normal or higher doses.

I went in with the notion that MDMA already has MAOI properties, tuning the dose down and using less and introducing a MAOI would allow MDMA to persist longer, release a lesser amount at a time but retain more due to the MAOI/Reuptake inhibition.

I had a great time and I'm not dead. I call that a win.
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TrancedOutBrah, 2025-04-19, https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/29193409#29193409
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Yes I did initial testing with lower doses of MDMA, I did not jump straight to 75mg.

It's not something I intend to repeat. I am no longer on any MAOI's either. I do realize that the combination can be deadly, it's not like I didn't do extensive research on the combination before trying. Just because it can be deadly does not mean it will be. Every single person who died from it took normal doses or much higher (200mg+). My normal dose of MDMA is ~175mg. It was a good experience and I felt great, no issues at all.
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TrancedOutBrah, 2025-08-08, https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/29308014#29308014



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Ayahuasca con coca or cocahuasca is made by cooking Banisteriopsis caapi and chakruna together with plenty of coca leaves.
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Christian Rätsch. ETHNOBOTANICA AYAHUASCA / COCA: THE “LEAF OF LIFE” [Ayahuasca: Rituals, Potions and Visionary Art from the Amazon. Adelaars, A., Müeller-Ebeling, C., Rätsch, C. 2016. Divine Arts. ISBN: 9781611250510]


Discussion between three people on pharmaceutical MAOIs who used cocaine while on them: https://www.bluelight.org/community/threads/945930/post-16254075

"I did plenty of cocaine last weekend been on Nardil for 3 months."


Using LSD as a substitute for DMT in ayahuasca

Using mescaline as a substitute for DMT in ayahuasca

Using ketamine as a substitute for DMT in ayahuasca


The myth that ayahuasca has to contain DMT

 

[chris_p]

I've done this combination over 5+ times with MDMA and syrian rue in relatively high doses (the highest dose I ever went was nearly a gram of MDMA and about 70-80% of a packet of 10g Syrian Rue over the course of one day). The increased duration of the peak was highly expressed and there was a strange sense of time dilation too, whereas normally I feel like time moves far quicker on a roll, here I could feel every second of it in slow motion in its strongest intensity yet, likely attributed to the MAOI. It feels to me like a far superior form of the drug normally and I lost interested in using it on its own after these experiences. The only noticeable downside is high heart rate and blood pressure which comparably wasnt as intense as I have had on other stimulants and extremely intense confusion as well as sweating buckets like I had just came out of the ocean. One of my most memorable experiences was 4g shrooms mdma and rue. I remember chatting to someone online and mid conversation I started hallucinating extremely intensely and all of a sudden 20 minutes passed out of nowhere and I was halfway falling out of my chair in a full ego death, it felt near identical to the time I smoked DMT on MDMA.

To be clear I am NOT recommending anyone to try this, it is dangerous to mix MAOI's and MDMA and people have died doing it, taking normal doses of MDMA and end up with SS.

I only ever did it as a last resort to get something out of the drug when it wasn't doing anything anymore. Don't see the point in others doing this combination regardless of its potency if they haven't had the full roll experience yet. I do think the dose makes the poison here but it modulates the drug more than it just increases its effects. It becomes far more stimulatory and I get higher libido but it could be due to my pick of an MAOI. Almost every negative and positive aspect of MDMA expresses itself far more in a way where it breaks past the ceiling without causing a physical overdose, though one becomes significantly more likely. Stay safe when trying it

 

[red22]

Psychedelics Today uploaded this video this morning, which featured a comment I made on one of their IG posts. They just took the video down and blocked me.

6.32 MB file on MEGA

mega.nz

My comment:

I would never take MDMA again without harmalas. Seems to be a rather dangerous and superficial substance without something "spiritual" to give it a base and some substance. Murple was a fan of the aforementioned combo.

⇨ Using MDMA as a substitute for DMT in ayahuasca [Bluelight]

"I think that more and more people will increasingly understand that a vine heavy brew, with relatively small amounts of DMT, is about the best preventive medicine a human being can ever take."

Julian Palmer. Articulations: On the Utilisation and Meanings of Psychedelics. 2014. Chapter 4. Ayahuasca / The Religion of Ayahuasca

 

[Bitchniggaz]

Wtf is wrote with people?
Anyone with any bit of sense knows that maoi + mdma = serotonine syndrome.

These freaking turds is gonna end up killing people with these insane protocols.
Usually im not in favor of snitching but these people need to be dealt with before something really bad happens.

 

[JackARoe]

Anyone with any bit of sense knows that maoi + mdma = serotonine syndrome.

Excellent point. I know Red will like this warning. The whole notion of ayahuasca containing another chemical than the historical recipe seems strange to me. All it seems is drug combos. But even the though maio part of ayahuasca is light, meaning people learned that they can eat cheese or other things that were forbidden it may not apply to actual chemicals being safe.

So let me copy the warning. Honestly I wonder why this has not been brought up till now.

maoi + mdma = serotonine syndrome.

 

[Pfafffed]

That's legitimately why I clicked on this thread. One of my eyebrows got stuck on my hairline I WTFd so hard. Please don't do this. This is a possibly fatal combination. It's certainly survivable (see above,) but it's not a good idea.

 

[Leprechaun]

I've done this combination over 5+ times with MDMA and syrian rue in relatively high doses (the highest dose I ever went was nearly a gram of MDMA and about 70-80% of a packet of 10g Syrian Rue over the course of one day). The increased duration of the peak was highly expressed and there was a strange sense of time dilation too, whereas normally I feel like time moves far quicker on a roll, here I could feel every second of it in slow motion in its strongest intensity yet, likely attributed to the MAOI. It feels to me like a far superior form of the drug normally and I lost interested in using it on its own after these experiences. The only noticeable downside is high heart rate and blood pressure which comparably wasnt as intense as I have had on other stimulants and extremely intense confusion as well as sweating buckets like I had just came out of the ocean. One of my most memorable experiences was 4g shrooms mdma and rue. I remember chatting to someone online and mid conversation I started hallucinating extremely intensely and all of a sudden 20 minutes passed out of nowhere and I was halfway falling out of my chair in a full ego death, it felt near identical to the time I smoked DMT on MDMA.



I only ever did it as a last resort to get something out of the drug when it wasn't doing anything anymore. Don't see the point in others doing this combination regardless of its potency if they haven't had the full roll experience yet. I do think the dose makes the poison here but it modulates the drug more than it just increases its effects. It becomes far more stimulatory and I get higher libido but it could be due to my pick of an MAOI. Almost every negative and positive aspect of MDMA expresses itself far more in a way where it breaks past the ceiling without causing a physical overdose, though one becomes significantly more likely. Stay safe when trying it

Your comment of “sweating buckets” sounds like you had a close call with the ER.

The tipping point or threshold to catatonia is pretty low, after that you’re looking at potential overheating and muscle breakdown.

Your symptoms actually describe serotonin syndrome, which you likely did experience.

This is a potentially life threatening circumstance and the margin for error is extremely low.

 

[red22]

Quotes:

It’s a fun and interesting way to play with the serotonin gas pedal while the brakes are off. Reversible inhibitors are safe if Low doses and just find your pocket. I find that 50mg of mdma with 100 mg of Harmine HCL can be a smooth and sustained high. You can even redose Harmine every 4 hrs and keep it going

@ISLAND_THUNDER, 2025-12-05, personal correspondence


i find that mdma in low doses (microdose, 5-30 mg) is a total waste when taken with no syrian rue. but the dose absolutely makes the poison. i have always found it to be safe to combine AS LONG AS both are dosed properly, you can have a microdose of m and your normal rue dose, or vice versa, obviously you should NEVER take both full doses at once you will die

Quiet_Orchid_1772, 2025-12-02, h‍‍ttps://old.reddit.com/r/harmalas/comments/1p7l2eb/mdma/nrv7oso/

 

[Pfafffed]

No argument. Also a big fan of not mixing things together that may cause me to die if I screw up. I'll just take more of the other thing and not have to worry about the whole expiring thing.

 

[red22]

Quote:

I've mixed Harmalas with Amphetamines as well as with MDMA

As with all things in life, the most important thing is dialing in the dose of each

Luckily, Harmalas are reversibles (RIMAS) and the danger of serious hypertension is low unless you are taking stupid doses (normal doses) of said chemicals. Serotonin syndrome would be another concern with MDMA, but like all things in life, things are only dangerous at certain levels, the dosage is what makes it a poison or makes it a great time.

If your BP reaches a certain level, Harmalas will actually get displaced from the MAO enzyme and you'll eventually start feeling much better within an hour or two and notably it has a much shorter duration and short half life.

Notably, the mixture can still be dangerous and it is unwise to mix it with things that I've mentioned, especially if you don't have a clue what the actual interactions are between the two. Any kind of PEA that spikes NE or severely spikes serotonin can be asking for trouble. Dopamine is far less of a concern compared to the other two but still something to note.

Anyway, this thread makes me want to go back to experimenting with rue, particularly with extremely low doses of vyvanse (which again, is not something I would suggest to anyone to try)

Harmalas are great. Very gentle and uplifting plant if taken in appropriate dosages and is great at enhancing mushrooms and DMT. I also like the feeling they give when mixed with LSD.

Pretty much any classical psych it works well for me.

Anyways, enough ranting.

TrancedOutBrah, 2025-11-28, https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/29415184#29415184

Using LSD as a substitute for DMT in ayahuasca

 

[red22]

My lack of further experience with pure harmaline derives from my having been engaged, since the time of the above research, in the study of harmaline combinations: harmaline-MDA, harmaline-TMA¹, harmaline-mescaline and others.

¹ TMA: trimethoxyamphetamine.

Claudio Naranjo. The Healing Journey: New Approaches to Consciousness. 1973. Ballantine Books. SBN: 345-24328-5-150. Chapter 4. Harmaline and the Collective Unconscious, page 121

𝚀𝚞𝚘𝚝𝚎:

anyway..i have read some reports about being combining large doses of harmala alkaloids with large doses of iboga...the effects were unpleasant for most people that tried it..but nobody was injured in anyway...also i have combined harmala alkaloids with some "unsavory" candidates...such as MDA, Kanna, mescaline and maybe some others...and i know the feeling of too much pretty well..and so far i feel like im safely under the level of dangerous..but i will be testing this very carefully...and personally would like to hear more from some Iboga experts..im sure most will say not to combine them..but might also say that microdoses are safe

but the main thing is to know your body and to listen to it...if its saying..oh SHIT this is too much then stop...and if starts to feel dangerous..ill get out the activated charcoal...mix up some nice clean water with it and down the hatch..and then back up the hatch...i really doubt it will come to this..

Jorkest, 2010-06-08, https://forum.dmt-nexus.me/threads/micro-dose-of-iboga-and-caapi-combo.309433/post-3360620

 

[pupnik]

how can you stop when you have already taken too much and your body is saying that it is coming on too strong?

I think this is the conundrum of harm reduction,

the harm has to be reduced before it hits, and if you already took a harmful dose or combination, then reduction only applies to the next time if there is one.

 

[red22]

–Drawing attention to @tachyphylaxis's recent posts in my thread in the pharmacology forum:

T

Pharmacology Post in thread 'How is that even possible? ᴍᴀᴏɪꜱ, ꜱᴇʀᴏᴛᴏɴɪɴ ꜱʏɴᴅʀᴏᴍᴇ'

Dec 23, 2025

I have been taking a high dose of one MAOI or another for a LONG time, and have been on them for most of my adult life (like 20 years My current medication (which has been this way for years), is 120mg/day Parnate + 70mg/day d-amphetamine. I have never experienced a hypertensive crisis. Once I had an adverse reaction to some esoteric sauce at some Asian (it's been a long time) restaurant, that's about it. It did not require hospitalization or anything like that.

I have taken MDMA while on phenelzine. It was a lackluster experience. I did not notice any toxicity, but that means...

• tachyphylaxis

• 

Also see his posts on the next page.

He's been on MAOIs for years and years and he pushed the envelope, as did his friend who died of a hypertensive crisis.

 

[red22]

"At this point I've seen dozens of people smoke changa while actively on MDMA and even take MDMA alongside a full dose of oral harmalas at festivals. This isn't a green light to say that it's safe for everyone by any means, each person is different, and one should always err on the side of caution; but my experience is that for a lot of people, the concern of dangerous interaction is minimal."  dreamer042  2026-04-23  https://forum.dmt-nexus.me/posts/3985924