Undercover Cops in Clubs?

[sput]

In the past I've worked with two of the four largest police departments in the state of Texas. (And no, I am not now, nor have I ever been an officer, thank you very much.) I've had the opportunity to interact with and work alongside a few narcotics officers, including some who were actively or had at some time been an undercover officer. There are a ton of users who are entirely too paranoid about undercover officers, especially at any given location on any given night.

Just considering an argument of resources, the likelihood of an undercover agent wandering around at a party or a bar asking random individuals for drugs is basically nonexistent. To be frank, these guys really couldn't give a damn about Joe Nobody dealing pills on the weekends. Undercover officers are scarce, and the resources pooled to train and fund undercover operatives are constantly and painfully scrutinized. Trust me guys. They're worrying about the bigger picture operators who are dealing higher up the food chain than your bud who buys thirty pills to dole out for some extra cash.

That aside, I've also always discovered that anyone who's told me either of his pal or he himself being busted by a narc to be spewing patent bullshit. There's a natural tendency among us to want to blame the messenger (i.e., that guy who seemed "out of place"--the one who bought a couple pills from you earlier in the evening) when a typical small bit dealer who's been busted was only the victim of his own folly, usually doing something glaringly stupid such as being pulled over for a traffic violation while carrying a pocket full of drugs or stammering down a sidewalk in plain view while doing the same.

But all that being said, there is the danger of someone as a snitch, usually playing a game of tit for tat with a prosecuting attorney and promising to produce a few "dealers" in exchange for a reduced or waived sentence, albeit a very small danger in the broader picture. I think coupled with the small chance of some off-duty, rogue street cop trying to play hero, the chances of being busted by an undercover are slim to none.

All things considered, there's really not much to be worried about when it comes to these sorts of officers. In the end, a small bit of paranoia goes a long way in keeping a lot of us out of trouble.

As a footnote, I'd also like to add that this very well may not be the case in countries other than the U.S. Sending undercover officers to a random location on any given night may very well be a common standard operating procedure in other parts of the world, but it's really just not the way things typically work around here.

 

[ClubNymphs]

In the past I've worked with two of the four largest police departments in the state of Texas. (And no, I am not now, nor have I ever been an officer, thank you very much.) I've had the opportunity to interact with and work alongside a few narcotics officers, including some who were actively or had at some time been an undercover officer. There are a ton of users who are entirely too paranoid about undercover officers, especially at any given location on any given night.

Just considering an argument of resources, the likelihood of an undercover agent wandering around at a party or a bar asking random individuals for drugs is basically nonexistent. To be frank, these guys really couldn't give a damn about Joe Nobody dealing pills on the weekends. Undercover officers are scarce, and the resources pooled to train and fund undercover operatives are constantly and painfully scrutinized. Trust me guys. They're worrying about the bigger picture operators who are dealing higher up the food chain than your bud who buys thirty pills to dole out for some extra cash.

That aside, I've also always discovered that anyone who's told me either of his pal or he himself being busted by a narc to be spewing patent bullshit. There's a natural tendency among us to want to blame the messenger (i.e., that guy who seemed "out of place"--the one who bought a couple pills from you earlier in the evening) when a typical small bit dealer who's been busted was only the victim of his own folly, usually doing something glaringly stupid such as being pulled over for a traffic violation while carrying a pocket full of drugs or stammering down a sidewalk in plain view while doing the same.

But all that being said, there is the danger of someone as a snitch, usually playing a game of tit for tat with a prosecuting attorney and promising to produce a few "dealers" in exchange for a reduced or waived sentence, albeit a very small danger in the broader picture. I think coupled with the small chance of some off-duty, rogue street cop trying to play hero, the chances of being busted by an undercover are slim to none.

All things considered, there's really not much to be worried about when it comes to these sorts of officers. In the end, a small bit of paranoia goes a long way in keeping a lot of us out of trouble.

As a footnote, I'd also like to add that this very well may not be the case in countries other than the U.S. Sending undercover officers to a random location on any given night may very well be a common standard operating procedure in other parts of the world, but it's really just not the way things typically work around here.

While i would generally agree with just about everything above i'd like to add one small footnote. . .

Use your common sense. . . there will be a few isolated instances where your chances of UC activity in a given area will be greatly increased. . . for example if a club has recently gotten alot of local press coverage for something drug related or related to underage illicet activity of any kind (serving minors, admitting minors, staying open past law allowed times, a reputation for "rave activities" etc etc) If you frequent a club that has recently gotten some such coverage and is being heavily scrutinized chances are it will be the focus of LEOs and as such there will be a higher chance of UC activity. . .

anyway just wanted to throw that out there.

 

[workhardplayhard]

there was this older (40s ish) couple there asking the clerk how to get to the location I was on my way to. I didn't think anything of it, until I saw them later at the rave asking some people I knew if they could "score some E" I definitely thought it was suspect, but then like 2 hours later I saw them sitting off in a corner, cross legged, all sweaty and obviously rolling, giving each other hand massages and shit, I laughed to myself and was not only glad that they weren't just another shady older undercover, but that they found some shit, and were having a good time.

Well we're not 40 yet, but low 30's, career minded and "clean" cut looking. Been going to raves since back when a map point was actually map point. Now we only roll once every few months so no steady non-party hookups and have no friends that roll.

Let me speak for us geritol'ers when I say...

You young fuggers have no idea how much it sucks when going to a party, you just wanna get your roll on, and every dealer looks at you like a narc and claims he ain't got shit when I saw him slanging to the entire massive E puddle 30 seconds ago!

End rant

 

[dshock]

True that club nymphs ^^ And as far as funding under cover operations goes, we're not talking about donnie brasco here. I agree totally with clubnymphs because I've seen it happen.

 

[Infinite Jest]

In the past I've worked with two of the four largest police departments in the state of Texas. (And no, I am not now, nor have I ever been an officer, thank you very much.) I've had the opportunity to interact with and work alongside a few narcotics officers, including some who were actively or had at some time been an undercover officer. There are a ton of users who are entirely too paranoid about undercover officers, especially at any given location on any given night.

Interesting, thanks. I would point out that every so often cops decide to make a high profile statement. For example, one time when I was in London they stopped and searched everybody who was coming into one club. Similar situation here in New Zealand, where they closed off a club and searched everyone in it. Those were uniform cops, not undercovers, though.

I would think that your main problems in clubs would come from security; or at raves from uniform cops searching you on your way in. Not to say that there's no such thing as undercovers, but that weird guy asking for drugs might just be a weird guy who's looking for drugs

 

[Deleted member 77372]

give them the pill, have them swallow/pop, then have them give u the money. if it is a cop they wont pop it, and u wont get busted for selling. just makeup something about u not knowing what it was. that is if they seem cool and u really want to help them.

otherwise they will probly jsut run away with a free pill.

 

[zhuk]

^^damn i wish i'd get that lucky lol

I'm an older pretty infrequent roller, and fuckit I can't find pills that often...enough *grrrr*

 

[Deathtullrises]

give them the pill, have them swallow/pop, then have them give u the money. if it is a cop they wont pop it, and u wont get busted for selling. just makeup something about u not knowing what it was. that is if they seem cool and u really want to help them.

otherwise they will probly jsut run away with a free pill.

That wouldnt work considering undercover cops can do drugs with you.

 

[Tryptamite]

Cops in clubs that makes me sick. Why do they always have to ruin our buzz?

 

[dshock]

In the past I've worked with two of the four largest police departments in the state of Texas. (And no, I am not now, nor have I ever been an officer, thank you very much.) I've had the opportunity to interact with and work alongside a few narcotics officers, including some who were actively or had at some time been an undercover officer. There are a ton of users who are entirely too paranoid about undercover officers, especially at any given location on any given night.

Just considering an argument of resources, the likelihood of an undercover agent wandering around at a party or a bar asking random individuals for drugs is basically nonexistent. To be frank, these guys really couldn't give a damn about Joe Nobody dealing pills on the weekends. Undercover officers are scarce, and the resources pooled to train and fund undercover operatives are constantly and painfully scrutinized. Trust me guys. They're worrying about the bigger picture operators who are dealing higher up the food chain than your bud who buys thirty pills to dole out for some extra cash.

That aside, I've also always discovered that anyone who's told me either of his pal or he himself being busted by a narc to be spewing patent bullshit. There's a natural tendency among us to want to blame the messenger (i.e., that guy who seemed "out of place"--the one who bought a couple pills from you earlier in the evening) when a typical small bit dealer who's been busted was only the victim of his own folly, usually doing something glaringly stupid such as being pulled over for a traffic violation while carrying a pocket full of drugs or stammering down a sidewalk in plain view while doing the same.

But all that being said, there is the danger of someone as a snitch, usually playing a game of tit for tat with a prosecuting attorney and promising to produce a few "dealers" in exchange for a reduced or waived sentence, albeit a very small danger in the broader picture. I think coupled with the small chance of some off-duty, rogue street cop trying to play hero, the chances of being busted by an undercover are slim to none.

All things considered, there's really not much to be worried about when it comes to these sorts of officers. In the end, a small bit of paranoia goes a long way in keeping a lot of us out of trouble.

As a footnote, I'd also like to add that this very well may not be the case in countries other than the U.S. Sending undercover officers to a random location on any given night may very well be a common standard operating procedure in other parts of the world, but it's really just not the way things typically work around here.

SPUT--I don't know what you're talking about........cops do undercover small buys and shit like that ALL THE TIME...haven't you ever seen COPS? they set up small sting operations and snag people buying and selling grams and small pocket amounts Every day!

 

[RuTHlezz1]

Well I have been lucky so far and with the black scene getting into thizz (rolls) I have had a steady way for years. But I can see older ppls frustrations who don’t still hustle to supplement their income when they try to buy and no one looks at them because they think they are cops.

Another thing is this. You will never see an UC LEO coming because why fuck with someone over a simple possession charge in a club. If you are at a club and someone asks you for a 5, 10, 15 or 20 pack then I would run the hell away. If they just wanted 2 rolls I would walk away, hit up my bag man get a 2 pack, go back and say hey can I borrow 30 bucks. When they did I would say thanks bro I needed to buy this chick a drink and then make a drop and then say “hey man you dropped something” just make you got no prints on the plastic and neither one mention any drugs. Then if they bust you its no worries because you never did anything other than borrow some money and try to help out a stranger by pointing out they dropped something.

What you need to worry about if your are a player is your friends who may get picked up and then turned by the cops to setup a buy of pills to show you are a dealer (10 -50). Then the cops try to move up the ladder by turning you out. You all know the routine: busting small – large, that’s the way police work.

Dshock every time I see that on cops they are busting crack dealers who are working a corner or are doing reverse busts on crack users. Crack has a higher penalty then pills or even powder coke for that matter. Not to mention that if you are working a corner they will without a doubt get a felony possession with intent charge.

 

[dshock]

If they just wanted 2 rolls I would walk away, hit up my bag man get a 2 pack, go back and say hey can I borrow 30 bucks. When they did I would say thanks bro I needed to buy this chick a drink and then make a drop and then say “hey man you dropped something” just make you got no prints on the plastic and neither one mention any drugs.

Interesting.................I like that idea

 

[sput]

SPUT--I don't know what you're talking about........cops do undercover small buys and shit like that ALL THE TIME...haven't you ever seen COPS? they set up small sting operations and snag people buying and selling grams and small pocket amounts Every day!

First, let me assure you that the crap that you see on Cops is as close to staged as it could possibly be without being dramatized. These film crews actively pursue these sorts of situations by irking the officers they accompany into the worst neighborhoods and by all accounts, targeting those individuals who are naturally at the highest risk of offense. Second, it's important to understand that the largest number of officers you see in plain clothes making a small sting of this kind on these sorts of television shows are not likely to be actual narcotics officers nor are their arrests nothing more than spontaneously engineered encounters; i.e., asking every homeless man who "looks" like an addict or the rough-edged twenty-something who "looks" like a dealer in the worst neighborhoods for crack will eventually win you a score.

Third, and perhaps most importantly, supposing this sort of instance is really beside the point I made earlier--the likelihood of an undercover narcotics officer at any given location (bar, club, or party) on any given night, one who is actively trying to purchase drugs and, in turn, make arrests, is very, very small. I never argued that patrol officers don't make busts of this sort. On the contrary, these small pick-ups happen often and will often include plain-clothed officers on the streets. Having worked with police departments before, I can tell you that many city police departments have active policies of maintaining a number of plained-clothed officers in many neighborhoods. Their reasoning is two-fold. First, the mere presence of uniformed officers in some locations will instigate negative reactions, and second, officers are fully aware that some criminals will let their guard down and will be easier to catch if a uniformed office is unseen.

All that aside, it is important to understand that there is a substantial difference between this kind of neighborhood patrol and law enforcement actively pursuing dealers at a place of business. This indeed is the entire point. I stated as an example in my original post, a dealer stumbling down a sidewalk in plain sight is easily caught. I know that it's natural to be paranoid when we believe that officers have free reign in a place of business as they do out on the streets, but this really isn't true. Like I said before, we as a group tend to be too worried about this sort of thing happening, and the better that we understand the actual practices of law enforcement in each situation, the better prepared we are to stay safe and relatively worry-free.

 

[dshock]

^Whatever, don't try and tell me the Op procedures of every police in the U.S, because you can't.
"having worked with police departments before".......... I've seen some shit too, from the other side of the law

 

[RuTHlezz1]

For sure dshock.

It might be wise to stake out the PD stations and make note of cars in the parking lot while officers are on patrol, take pics of seized cars, write down tag numbers, go to the court house when word gets out about busts and check out cops that come to testify.

Just an idea.

 

[Jaek]

Thanks for being honest and posting that, it put a lot of this thread into perspective.

As a footnote, I'd also like to add that this very well may not be the case in countries other than the U.S. Sending undercover officers to a random location on any given night may very well be a common standard operating procedure in other parts of the world, but it's really just not the way things typically work around here.

That's the difference to where I live now. As there are only 3 clubs (one of them isn't really one anyway) where I live and the population is small the police frequently aren't left with a lot to do other than check people for drink driving etc. I realise and had the thought in mind starting the thread that the possibilites for UC to be walking around in clubs is slim, and it is indeed here but nevertheless I think it does happen on an infrequent basis.

Of course in a big city 10 times the size the likelihood is far, far slimmer.

 

[Jaek]

It (kinda, sorta) happened again. Not to me, nor in a club, however...

I recently attended and played at a large NYE music festival with my band here in Australia ('FF' might give some people a hint as to what it was) and a mate who was also playing (djing) said his mate who was working as security said there were a number of uniform and undercover police in attendance the entire time. One particular person to look out for was a bloke in a red t-shirt and black cap as he'd go up to some likely looking people, ask them if he knew where to get any drugs from, and if so follow along until such time he could arrest them for tracking.

Yes, this really happened.

 

[zhuk]

well I guess I got a decreasing chance of finding some x.....fuck i wish i wasn't such a social misfit lol

 

[Meeko Baybee]

At a party I had some guy come up to me and ask if I had any of those "MDMA pills" that kicked everyones ass. I just looked at him and laughed, and later saw him pointing people out to security and then they promptly were kicked out.

 

[scene]

Thought I'd throw in my experience I had a few months ago.
I was at a club here in Australia that's known for it's underground drug culture. Fantastic dance club! Was off guts and in a really good, carefree mood. This older guy who looked absolutely wasted (great actor) came up to me beggin' for pills. I declined the first few times saying I didn't know where to get any. He kept hassling me and offered me a very inviting amount of cash for a couple of pingers. Me, being off my face and not thinking too much, finally said yeah. I managed to get him 2 and he munched them down in front of me (or so it looked like), left and came back half an hour later asking for a couple more. I still didn't suspect him, since I was in a great mood, so I said I could get him a couple more. Gave them the 2 pills, he threw them blatantly on the table and did his secret signal (which was soo obvious when I look back) to the bouncer. The bouncer grabbed me, took me to the front of the club at the top of a flight of stairs. I was absolutely shittin', planning my getaway if they had cops waiting for me. We stopped at the stairs, I looked the other way for a second, then next thing you know..BAM! I found myself on the floor! Took me a while to realise what happened.. This massive bouncer, who was twice my size, had king hit me right in the jaw and knocked me out! When I finally came through and realised what had happened, I stood straight up and walked off. I was so dazed thinking I was gonna get bashed big time and I was in no state to defend myself. Lucky for me, all the bouncer did was warn me to never deal in his club again. I was so lucky. The punch didn't hurt at all, no bruising or swelling and I ended up going to another club and partying on all night. I felt so stupid though because I'm definitely no dealer and I've always respected this club and abided by it's unspoken rules....except for that night. I'll never be so complacent again. Much better than getting busted by the cops though.