Unable to discern between 1P-LSD and ETH-LAD

[pupnik]

this might sound odd, but I had pre-cut some tabs in half a few weeks ago and put them in my wallet then moved them and then put them somewhere else and today I found one.

the rest are locked up - this is not a problem.

I looked at the diagram on the back and there was not enough of it to match with some other tabs and I did not flip it over to look for the letters, but it could only have been 1p-lsd or eth-lad, since the al-lad are a different shade and the ald-52 are wow.

I purposely continued to not know specifically what I had in my hand - to test if I could tell the difference after consumed.

Anyway I took it, and it was great, and initially I thought this to be 1p, then I felt the vaguely cotton candy thing I associate with eth-lad, and then I realized it's all in my head.

I still cannot tell what I took and have no way of working backwards. I really did a blind test by accident and I can still go back and forth in my guessing.

This makes me feel pretty good about it.

 

[blistersinthedark]

vaguely cotton candy thing

please elaborate!

 

[pupnik]

during my first experience of Eth-Lad, my body feeling and it's movement had some of the same vibrance and resistance as cotton candy, which is a sticky hair like confection; like sweet melt in your mouth fine hair that had been stiffened by hair spray, usually eaten from a stick or paper cone.

it's just a motif that emerged pervasively on that first Eth-Lad, and subsequently has returned; what this blind test between 1P and Eth shows, is that my distinction is all in my mind. I could not tell if I felt cotton candy from myself (totally) or from the lysergamide. The session had the same push that I associate with 1p, the same gut acceleration as Eth. the same visuals as 1P (slightly jeweled trails - the trailing edge of objects has a colored sparkle)

 

[perpetualdawn]

I recently dosed a half tab of ETH-LAD (75µg), and felt as though I was able to identify the differences vs. LSD *knowing* what I had taken. However at that dose the difference wasn't extreme, and it could easily have all been in my head with preconceptions. In a blind test of 75µg LSD vs ETH-LAD I'm doubtful I could pick them apart reliably.

As the dose goes up, the differences are more apparent. I think it would be much easier to tell at 150µg.

If it was ETH-LAD that you took, would it have been a half tab of the 100µg ones (so 50µg)?

 

[Img_9999]

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking too, the lower the dose the harder to tell them appart. I've tried 50 ug of ETH-LAD twice and would be hard to tell the difference appart from the duration of come-up and plateau which for me are very different in both cases.

 

[pupnik]

yes 50mics

 

[nuube]

I can't tell the difference between any lysergamide.

 

[Lysergamind]

An Ehrlich reagent test & a clock could help one discern ETH-LAD from 1P.

ETH-LAD should indicate quickly in such a test at room temperature whereas 1P should take some time.

 

[Incunabula]

Yes, of cause the dosage makes the difference - differences gets more pronounced on higher doses. That said, they are very similar, but there's only one carbon difference between ETH-LAD and LSD, and ALD-52 and 1-P-LSD are most likely just prodrugs to LSD. Of cause, one carbon can make a huge difference in pharmacology, but it doesn't seem to do so in this case. Except ETH-LAD is considered slightly more potent than LSD by most people - But as we all know, psychedelics are notoriously fickle and sometimes hit's differently on certain days.

AL-LAD is the most different of the lysergamides available. That one feels more like a tryptamine imo, and has stange kinetics too. I'm pretty sure that lysergamides like LSP, LSB, CYP-LAD, PARGY-LAD etc. will be much more different than LSD proper.

Also, people are different. I know people who can't even tell the difference between a tryptamine and a phenethylamine - it's all just " a trip" to them. One person is a very small statistical population

 

[Kaleida]

AL-LAD is the most different of the lysergamides available. That one feels more like a tryptamine imo ....

I felt that too, given that I've only taken it once so far. Kind of reminded me of mushrooms or 4-AcO-DMT in certain ways, just had more of a lysergamide cognitive energy. I actually felt a similar way about ETH-LAD though too, but since it's also significantly more like LSD still, I think that's what really makes up for the difference and even is part for what makes it so impressive.



This thread is interesting, and has inspired me.... I think the next few times I intend to take a 4-substituted tryptamine I've already taken, I'm going to prepare a full dose of at least four or five different ones and pick at random. That should be a fun experiment to run.

 

[Solipsis]

Interesting and I always think it's best to say that you can't claim you will know for sure you can differentiate blindly until you have actually tried that...

On other other hand, last time I took ETH-LAD again - my most recent trip in general - I got an effect I seem to semi consistently get: a sort of blurring that flows like a lava lamp or partially along edges / objects, which produces several things apparently, like a soupy haze just hanging in mid air between me and what I'm looking at, or the sense that 2 things near each other that should look the same can really vary heavily in sharpness, so that it seems like things are blending unlike the more general soupy melting I am familiar with from LSD.

Things like that make it pretty hard for me to function visually, particularly during the peak....

Maybe I could figure something out like laying out a dose of ALD-52 and ETH-LAD of the same number of hits, shuffling until I haven't the faintest idea which is which and eat one of the drugs eyes closed. Later I can deduct which one I took...
Too bad they are not equipotent and neither are the hits, possibly I'm gonna have to go at greater lengths to make it hard to tell quantitatively.

I guess you are all encouraged try this if you wouldn't mind the trip whichever it turns out to be...

 

[perpetualdawn]

Good idea Kaleida! You should figure out a way to randomly label them so you can figure out afterwords which one you took. Maybe get a friend to label them A, B, C, D etc based on dice rolls or something, and your friend preserves the mapping.

 

[Kaleida]

Good idea Kaleida! You should figure out a way to randomly label them so you can figure out afterwords which one you took. Maybe get a friend to label them A, B, C, D etc based on dice rolls or something, and your friend preserves the mapping.

Hmm, that is a better idea than what I had in mind.... I had the ABCD labeling thought but only from a simple perspective of handling it myself, which would work to an extent but I would still have to identify them specifically after each trip so that I can actually know what I took when. I was just going to have fun doing that for a few weeks with an increasingly small pool to pick from, and just writing one report per trip as usual.

However, if I did take just ten seconds to have a friend label the capsules for me, I could very easily keep myself in the dark for the entire span, run experiment fully for each substance with the same level of uncertainty, and compile them all into one experience report where I include one final guess at the end before actually learning what I took when. That would actually be even cooler....

Now I just need to decide on what to use. I was thinking maybe like 4-AcO-DMT, 4-HO-MET, 4-HO-MPT, and 4-HO-DET.... I feel as though those are the four I have with the most similar responses in both potency and subjective effects for me, but not so similar I don't think I could tell their trips apart.... I suppose we shall see!

 

[perpetualdawn]

You could randomize them without a friend like this:

Put each pill in an envelope, along with a folded piece of paper saying what the drug is. Shuffle the envelopes, and then mark them A,B,C,D. Have your trips and take note of which envelope you took from in your trip, without looking at the paper inside, and save the envelope so you can decode it later.

4-AcO-DMT, 4-HO-MET, 4-HO-MPT, and 4-HO-DET

Good choices!

I think I remember seeing some old study where they gave subjects randomly LSD, mescaline and mushrooms, and most people couldn't even tell those apart. Seems crazy, but that was in the 60s (or earlier maybe?) and there was probably a lot less knowledge about what's what with PDs back then.

 

[Incunabula]

I think I remember seeing some old study where they gave subjects randomly LSD, mescaline and mushrooms, and most people couldn't even tell those apart. Seems crazy, but that was in the 60s (or earlier maybe?) and there was probably a lot less knowledge about what's what with PDs back then.

Did these people have a lot of experiences with different psychedelics before hand? Probably not. In my experience, how "sensitive" people are to the sometimes subtle differences between psychedelics varies between people.

I always think it's best to say that you can't claim you will know for sure you can differentiate blindly until you have actually tried that...

Ultimately true

 

[cj187]

I feel like I could tell the difference between LSD and ETH-LAD in a blind test, but maybe not 100% of the time. They certainly feel different, but then again every trip is different. There was one time I had an acid trip that was more clearheaded and visual than normal, and I remember thinking that I would have though it was ETH-LAD if I didn't know it was LSD.

It bugs me when people say they're sure they could tell the difference between two similar drugs in a blind test but don't bother to actually try it. Especially when they say that 1P-LSD is "nothing like LSD."

 

[Volsam]

Same reason why there are custom art designed blotters - what you see (and think) before you depart into the trip is the last connection to rational explanation of what's going to happen to our conscious mind, thus that mental image will persist throughout the trip.

It could also be our mental pictures of molecules of the substance we are taking and/or the way the name of them sounds, I think Shulgin wrote about it too.

And yes, especially in lower doses, lysergamides are very very similair in their effects.

With bigger dosage ETH-LAD consistently shows "double-peak" behavior and it does not combine well with cannabis for me.

 

[Kaleida]

You could randomize them without a friend like this:

Put each pill in an envelope, along with a folded piece of paper saying what the drug is. Shuffle the envelopes, and then mark them A,B,C,D. Have your trips and take note of which envelope you took from in your trip, without looking at the paper inside, and save the envelope so you can decode it later.

Perfect, sounds like a plan to me! That'll make it more fun at the end I think too, opening the envelopes lol. I'm getting excited about this, I'm already planning things out like pushing the suspense to the last possible second, like not opening the envelopes until I've entirely finished writing the combined trip report and made my in-depth predictions for exactly what I think I took when and why I think it, that way it's totally understandable how deeply and exactly why I'm either completely right or completely full of shit, or anywhere in between.

I think I remember seeing some old study where they gave subjects randomly LSD, mescaline and mushrooms, and most people couldn't even tell those apart. Seems crazy, but that was in the 60s (or earlier maybe?) and there was probably a lot less knowledge about what's what with PDs back then.

I recall hearing that brought up before too, not sure if I ever looked more deeply into it. Of it I will just say this: while I cannot speak for mescaline, in the grand scheme of things even within only the realm of psychedelics, I actually do find LSD and mushrooms pretty similar at the right doses. I don't think I would easily confuse them myself, but some of the signs that I would use to easily distinguish from their psychedelic effects alone took me a while to really notice and appreciate. Others I noticed right away and they're still as true as they ever were, but not everyone's priorities will be the same as mine of course.

To be clear, as much as I obviously advocate exploring the differences of psychedelics and think they should be differentiable in blind tests, I also do think that there is still considerable overlap among all psychedelics, particularly with all possible contexts considered and not just what they most commonly do, and think that sometimes there will simply be times when a trip can completely fool you or throw you for a loop. I doubt anyone could ever pass a psychedelic blind experiment 100% no matter how many times they did it on anything more than luck. Sometimes, unexpected things just happen! And I've definitely even had trips on LSD and mushrooms that were at times nearly indistinguishable from what the other more typically does for me.

So, I could understand how some people could be more easily fooled depending on their level of experience too, particularly if they're not as observant as some of the folks here, and especially since, like you said, they just knew so little about psychedelics in general or what to expect from them at the time.

I feel like I could tell the difference between LSD and ETH-LAD in a blind test, but maybe not 100% of the time. They certainly feel different, but then again every trip is different. There was one time I had an acid trip that was more clearheaded and visual than normal, and I remember thinking that I would have though it was ETH-LAD if I didn't know it was LSD.

^ This.

With bigger dosage ETH-LAD consistently shows "double-peak" behavior and it does not combine well with cannabis for me.

That's very interesting, because I assumed it would be great with cannabis like LSD, but it actually seemed to make the body load I had much more miserable and hard to ignore even at 100 ug of ETH-LAD. How would you say that specifically don't mix for you?

 

[Volsam]

That's very interesting, because I assumed it would be great with cannabis like LSD, but it actually seemed to make the body load I had much more miserable and hard to ignore even at 100 ug of ETH-LAD. How would you say that specifically don't mix for you?

^^^ Yeah, it's weird, but I can smoke loads of cannabis, extracts and hash while on LSD, 1P-LSD and AL-LAD and the cannabis high would never be able to fully "penetrate" the acid high, especially with LSD and 1P-LSD.

But with ETH-LAD the cannabis high somehow sneaks in, builds up and results in bursts of complete derealisation when it feels that the brain is getting scrambled - not pleasurable and neither insightful for me. And it is considering that I am a pretty heavy daily smoker for the past 16 or so years.

Nevertheless, ETH-LAD is nice and for some reason it makes me get in this japanese Zen garden anime-style mind set, perhaps because of the way mental images appear on it 8)

I like the idea of blind testing 4-sub tryptamines too! I think I'll do with 4-Aco-DMT, 4-Aco-MET, 4-HO-MET, 4-Aco-MiPT and 4-Aco-DET

 

[pupnik]

that cannabis effect with eth-lad only is totally set and setting (and possibly dosage of each because they are additive in some way)
personally some blond hash in the second half of an eth-lad (or other lysergamide) session is excellent, as are moderate amounts of really good wine or beer or tea!