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Social Justice Transgender and gender identity discussion

For the last couple years I've heard a lot of mockery of the idea of a hundred genders...

Now, obviously that idea is worth mocking, that's why people repeat it. What interests me, is where this idea originally came from.

I've wondered for a while if it didn't originally stem from that Facebook controversy where they supposedly had a 100 or whatever gender options..

If it is though, that means this whole idea is based on a fiction, because I looked into that controversy at the time and discovered it was nonsense.

Facebook never had dozens and dozens of gender options. They had a gender textbox with dozens of autocomplete options, most of which were variations of about 6 or so basic options. Those being male female, unspecified, neither, and transmale transfemale.

But that got spun into this idea of a hundred actual different gender options which is complete crap. And I wonder if that's where this mockery all originally came from.

If it is though, then it's all bullshit. All based off a premise that was wrong to start with. Wouldn't be the first time.
 
Looking forward to the day a man identifying as female becomes the ufc female champion of the world. Wil be a great day for women’s rights.
 
Soso78 said:
Looking forward to the day a man identifying as female becomes the ufc female champion of the world. Wil be a great day for women’s rights.
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Wasn't there that Indian-born WWF wrestler that went by the stage name Transjinder who beat all the other WWF wrestlers and won their top prize (the trophy shaped as an ornmental weight belt with a diamond encrusted fidget spinner imbeded in the middle?)
 
JessFR said:
For the last couple years I've heard a lot of mockery of the idea of a hundred genders...

Now, obviously that idea is worth mocking, that's why people repeat it. What interests me, is where this idea originally came from.

I've wondered for a while if it didn't originally stem from that Facebook controversy where they supposedly had a 100 or whatever gender options..

If it is though, that means this whole idea is based on a fiction, because I looked into that controversy at the time and discovered it was nonsense.

Facebook never had dozens and dozens of gender options. They had a gender textbox with dozens of autocomplete options, most of which were variations of about 6 or so basic options. Those being male female, unspecified, neither, and transmale transfemale.

But that got spun into this idea of a hundred actual different gender options which is complete crap. And I wonder if that's where this mockery all originally came from.

If it is though, then it's all bullshit. All based off a premise that was wrong to start with. Wouldn't be the first time.
Click to expand...

The idea comes from a broader perspective of gender in recent years and while the options aren't quite really 100, its the combination of looking at presentation, culture, and biology that makes it seem so vast. Personally it seems a little too reliant on segmentation but if it makes someone happy and harms no one else, I don't see it as being a real problem. Anyway, here's a short brief that kind of sums up all aspects of it..

apath.org

63 Genders ― A New Perspective on Sex and Gender

We wrote it. They meme'd it. Where the famous #63genders meme was generated from! Sex is biological. Gender is social. By breaking down some basic traits of attraction and expression we create a list of 63 genders from these combinations.
apath.org apath.org
 
its the combination of looking at presentation, culture, and biology that makes it seem so vast.
Click to expand...

It seems like the actual chart they give actually uses three genders -- male, female and non-binary, maybe intersex -- together with what appears to be four "contexts", to give 3^4 = 81 "genders", of which they cross out 18 because they make less sense than the others.

But here's the thing: in order to do this combinatorial game, you need some kind of basis set of elements which you can then combine. And what would we call the elements of the basis set, if not, simply, genders?

What you end up with is then a theory that says people have multiple ways of relating to gender, except this is not remarkable or new at all. As such the claim to have expanded the gender list seems like yet another case of scientific novelty inflation.
 
JessFR said:
For the last couple years I've heard a lot of mockery of the idea of a hundred genders...

Now, obviously that idea is worth mocking, that's why people repeat it. What interests me, is where this idea originally came from.

I've wondered for a while if it didn't originally stem from that Facebook controversy where they supposedly had a 100 or whatever gender options..

If it is though, that means this whole idea is based on a fiction, because I looked into that controversy at the time and discovered it was nonsense.

Facebook never had dozens and dozens of gender options. They had a gender textbox with dozens of autocomplete options, most of which were variations of about 6 or so basic options. Those being male female, unspecified, neither, and transmale transfemale.

But that got spun into this idea of a hundred actual different gender options which is complete crap. And I wonder if that's where this mockery all originally came from.

If it is though, then it's all bullshit. All based off a premise that was wrong to start with. Wouldn't be the first time.
Click to expand...

Complete List of Genders - The Complete List of All Genders - Wattpad

Read The Complete List of All Genders from the story Complete List of Genders by JotaroKissesDolphins with 554,639 reads. tumblr, meme, didyoujustassumemygende...
www.wattpad.com www.wattpad.com

I think these lists are useful for personal exploration and self-clarification, but there's absolutely no point in trying to enforce anything like this on a societal level. We will probably get a clearer picture of what this all means and how it will be applied after the pop culture fad of "queer" begins to fade to normal levels. Right now everyone and their pet dog is "queer" and it annoys TF out of me. I run in truly queer circles and it's been my observation that it's a bourgeois phenomenon to call oneself queer now, as part of rampant hyper-individualism. People who haven't struggled with the identity crisis or gone through the hellish trials of growing up queer should not be adopting a label just because it's in vogue. So tired of it.

Likewise, there are too many young liberals who, like many liberals of previous generations, are gravitating to marginalized sub-cultures as part of their young adult identity formation. It's their form of protest. I see young women identifying as queer simply because they don't like wearing dresses, or they shave half their heads. That shit does not make you queer. The problem is, gender non-conformity is not supposed to be a sub-culture, it's a human identity complex with its own struggles. So the line between sub-culture and identity psychology is now being blurred, and this is my #1 beef with the topic we're now discussing in 2019. When I come across the demographic of young people age 18-25 who identify as queer, I am highly suspect of them, especially if they give signals of privilege and entitlement, which they very often do.

This is where the hundreds of genders thing comes in. In the race to be a unique, special snowflake, we are seeing young liberals adopting increasingly obscure terminology to align their temporary identities with, with the expectation that everyone around them should kowtow to this or be seen as an oppressor. The politics of oppression are unskillfully distorted by these people to gain momentary personal social control over others, which I can't stand. Meanwhile the actual oppressed remain unseen and unheard.

My goal in being part of these conversations is to decouple people's entitlement and privilege from the actual, real struggle that genuine, authentic queer and trans people are facing. Often the leftists who are shouting loudest and calling out oppression will not even identify as queer in 10 years, and are themselves just virtue signalling in order to conceal their own privilege. Case and point: spoiled college campus brats.
 
Foreigner said:

Complete List of Genders - The Complete List of All Genders - Wattpad

Read The Complete List of All Genders from the story Complete List of Genders by JotaroKissesDolphins with 554,639 reads. tumblr, meme, didyoujustassumemygende...
www.wattpad.com www.wattpad.com

I think these lists are useful for personal exploration and self-clarification, but there's absolutely no point in trying to enforce anything like this on a societal level. We will probably get a clearer picture of what this all means and how it will be applied after the pop culture fad of "queer" begins to fade to normal levels. Right now everyone and their pet dog is "queer" and it annoys TF out of me. I run in truly queer circles and it's been my observation that it's a bourgeois phenomenon to call oneself queer now, as part of rampant hyper-individualism. People who haven't struggled with the identity crisis or gone through the hellish trials of growing up queer should not be adopting a label just because it's in vogue. So tired of it.

Likewise, there are too many young liberals who, like many liberals of previous generations, are gravitating to marginalized sub-cultures as part of their young adult identity formation. It's their form of protest. I see young women identifying as queer simply because they don't like wearing dresses, or they shave half their heads. That shit does not make you queer. The problem is, gender non-conformity is not supposed to be a sub-culture, it's a human identity complex with its own struggles. So the line between sub-culture and identity psychology is now being blurred, and this is my #1 beef with the topic we're now discussing in 2019. When I come across the demographic of young people age 18-25 who identify as queer, I am highly suspect of them, especially if they give signals of privilege and entitlement, which they very often do.

This is where the hundreds of genders thing comes in. In the race to be a unique, special snowflake, we are seeing young liberals adopting increasingly obscure terminology to align their temporary identities with, with the expectation that everyone around them should kowtow to this or be seen as an oppressor. The politics of oppression are unskillfully distorted by these people to gain momentary personal social control over others, which I can't stand. Meanwhile the actual oppressed remain unseen and unheard.

My goal in being part of these conversations is to decouple people's entitlement and privilege from the actual, real struggle that genuine, authentic queer and trans people are facing. Often the leftists who are shouting loudest and calling out oppression will not even identify as queer in 10 years, and are themselves just virtue signalling in order to conceal their own privilege. Case and point: spoiled college campus brats.
Click to expand...
I agree with you 1,000%. I have met academics who are heterosexual who think because they lecture about drugs, sex, or whatever that they are 'queer'. I also have met an academic who is a heterosexual man who is not transsexual/transgender/transvestite, who calls himself a 'male lesbian.' Not realising that all actual lesbians even the butch ones that dress as drag kings, take on men's names, and use dildos like a cock would get very mad about this.

I am bisexual and I remember as a university student in the early 2000s meeting a fellow at a fusion show, and he told me he was 'pansexual' which is another term for being bisexual and I told him about the types of men, women, and trans people I am attracted to. Later in his dorm room listening to a Steely Dan CD, he then told me how he is heterosexual and only sexually attracted to women.
 
I somewhat agree with both of you.

I've noticed for a while now that there seem to be fundamentally two broad categories among everyone who identifies as some form of lgbtq (omission of i was deliberate).

There are those for whom that's truly a part of who they are. It's innate and unchanging. And they would still feel like that even if there were the only person left on earth.

And then there are the ones who seem to have more adopted it as part of their identity.

This isn't a strict black and white though. There are people whom fit both categories to varying degrees.

Let's put this another way, take transgender people. There seem to be some who identify more as being trans, than their actual identified gender.

The type who would prefer to check trans on a form asking for gender than to pick either male or female. And yet the whole point of being transgender for years has supposed to be that you feel you were assigned the wrong sex. The former behavior seems inconsistent with the latter.

People get into this for different motives. And to be clear, I am not saying that either of these motives are bad. I'm not saying that people who've adopted it as their identity don't have a right too and shouldn't be respected.

But I am agreeing that the phenomenon probably exists. That being people who have adopted being lgbtq*etc as a likely transitional elective part of their identity. Separate from people who have truly no choice at all and will still feel that way the rest of their life and would even if the world ended tomorrow.

Again, I don't think it's ok to be prejudicial or disrespectful to either really. But it's a difference that probably shouldn't be ignored either.

But I'm not LGBT, I have met and known a few LGBT people, but there's no way I know the ins and outs of the community like someone who lives in it. I recognize that.
 
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2020 it will be lgbtqfupja?efxz.
Fuuuuccckllkkk ooooffffffffffff
No offence
 
You know just adding "no offense" doesn't make it not offensive right? ;)

I can't deny I somewhat share the sentiment though. Just that, I've met a couple people who identify as LGBT who have just been the most insufferable annoying hyper sensitive jackasses. Oh and when I say they identify as LGBT. I don't mean one identified as trans and the other as a lesbian. I mean they identified as all of it. Together. Jumping from one to another on a biannual basis and expecting everyone around them to follow along.

It's a shame cause I've met some others who have no desire for that to be the foremost part of their identity at all.
 
I’m just not interested, people should be whatever they want but forgive me if I don’t jump through their hoops.
So some people are 7ft tall but I’m not making the doors in my house 7 foot, they willjust have to make do with what’s available.
no offence
 
Soso78 said:
I’m just not interested, people should be whatever they want but forgive me if I don’t jump through their hoops.
So some people are 7ft tall but I’m not making the doors in my house 7 foot, they willjust have to make do with what’s available.
no offence
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There's a big difference between not modifying your house and using their preferred pronouns, if that's what you're getting at with your analogy (and if it's not I'm not sure what other hoops are being asked of you).
 
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