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Positive The Tapering Supportive/Social Thread

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Hey Shroomy: I hear you... you would think after 9 days that your body would begin to feel better; however, you have been doing so well... going from 150mg/day to 60 mg is alot. You and Squeaky sound like you are reducing right around the same amounts, but I could be wrong. I would not judge you if sought help.... would you go for methadone or suboxone maintenance, or just do some sort of medically supervised detox/inpatient program? Thank goodness you found a remedy for the depression. Are you taking anything for the physical symptoms? I hope you turn a corner and start to feel better very soon.

Physically, I too cannot get through another c.t. withdrawal, which is why I am so persistent in trying to taper over and over. I have had a couple of days with no meds; however I have a very limited amount available for this week-end, as I am dog sitting two very rambunctious and spoiled dogs...one is still a puppy, which is why I am wide awake at 5:32 am. If I did not have any medication there would be no way I could make it 3 days with so much activity in my home.
 
Shroomy, hang in there. The arms always get me, too!! What is it? Is it just restless legs, but in the arms? I didn't know anyone else had that. I thought maybe it was because I was holding my iPad too long and got sore muscles that I never noticed.

I'm not sure what my deal is, but I've been using a lot more recently as well. I think I am focusing on it, but I don't know why. For the first time this month I counted, and I'll be fine, as long as I cut back to just under my normal dose. I can't figure out what it is latel that has me turning to it, even when I don't strictly need it for pain.
 
P0kemama, I think I noticed someone talking about a similar taper, yeah. I would definitely not take the suboxone or methadone route anytime soon, I'd only consider that upon repeated failure. I don't know anything about it, I wouldn't know where to get it, and I wouldn't want to attract attention to myself over something that I can probably deal with on my own still.

I have been on oxy for 3 years, and I was on dope not too long ago - actually, I was using dope for most of that time which might explain the duration. I have already cut that out this year and all sniffing. I don't plan on stopping completely because I want to continue to treat my chronic back pain with it at lower doses. I also want to learn a lesson from this suffering, to deter me from overusing again. I have weed, and then klonopin to sleep, I am already on benzos for a long time.

I'd never willingly try cold turkey, it just wouldn't work for me. Even with these doses, I haven't really left my basement in over a week now. 5-htp just takes the edge of the depression. I am in fact very depressed as it is, so that would never go away.

Anna, I am trying to hang in there. I know that taking more isn't really a solution because I am going to end up having to spend more money on them. And what if my tolerance doubled again, I would be screwed. So I have to taper way down. It's not restless legs, in the arms, because I am not flailing my arms around. Instead, it feels like an ache emanating from the bones and muscles of my upper arms. It is fucking horrible, it's really just muscle tension in a horribly awkward position. It is one of my most miserable symptoms, kind of hard to describe. I have it right now. It's because I am one hour away from my next dose since it happens consistently.

I have been really sick of rationing my pills near the end of the month. This month, I have done very well. Usually I am doing this out of necessity because I am low, but I lots of oxy to work with, so I have been fighting the craving to take more, which usually isn't so present. I won't be rushing to the pharmacy at opening time, haha. But, I still feel like complete shit physically. Of course I'm not going to feel better in 9 days after 3 years of what I would call abuse to the max before the consequences hit.
 
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Tolerance is such a bi#@h! That is what happened to us... no one wants to take more pills in the beginning of the month if we are truly chronic pain patients; however, tolerance builds so quickly. I remember when I was taking 3 15 mg oxycodones a day. One day, I started to feel a little badly before my scheduled dose. It was nothing I did; however, my body needed more drugs to maintain the same effect. We all know what happens when we start taking our meds too early. We do end up running out time and time again.

It is a horrible life to live... to be filled with fear of running out, or having run out... to feel so sick. And then, the chronic pain issues we are dealing with on top of that.

$$$ should be spent on researching how to solve this problem, instead of using federal dollars to shut down doctors and make kratom illegal.
 
I am so sorry for those who got wrapped up by they're doctors this way. I had my first opiates thru dental work. Not enough to make me physically addicted but mentally I was a goner... ended up on Poppy Seed Tea, I hear the detox is horrible and I'll find out first hand soon....
 
They want kratom illegal because they want people on opiates without withdrawal aids. That is just obnoxious!

At least I did this to myself, mostly. I am a self-taught chronic pain patient, because the waiting list was a couple years. I'd never trust my doctor, who I see maybe 30 minutes a year total, to take charge of this serious of a problem. I know my pain way better than him. The support is practically non-existent. I'm tapering off with IR oxy for fucks sake. What if this got really bad, like a lot worse, I feel like I'd be super lost and nobody would even be aware of it since it's so easy to hide when you are pain free. By far the easiest thing to do would be to hide it from everyone and keep taking more.

Not a good time to be a male in your 20's with a back problem, that's for sure. Underprescription is as much an issue as overprescription. This thread is a great idea by the way because tapering is typically rather drawn out and dull. Man it fucking pisses me off kids getting high on this shit though and killing themselves. Like leave us the fuck alone, at least do heroin or something illegal so we are not associated with it. I'm not saying I am some pure and holy pain patient that does everything right, just that, for the time being, why not get high on shit that won't fuck with peoples treatment who are in the most pain? I would honestly beat the fuck out of somebody like that. I took most everything but NEVER tried an opiate recreationally before I hurt my back. I never ever would have considered it.

Honestly, who the fuck walks into a doctors office pretending to be in pain to get money or drugs. That fuckin sickens me. You know, maybe that's why the fucking waiting time was so long that I had to start self medicating. I don't know if it is just me but my treatment has been very strongly negatively impacted by these drug laws and particularly by these pill hustlers. It should all just be legal including recreational use, would be way safer and most people know to keep away from this stuff anyway if you don't have chronic pain. Also, I'd quit cold turkey tomorrow if I didn't have chronic pain. Seriously. It's awful stuff to be on if you don't require it.
 
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Brently : Welcome to our thread! Please feel free to post here as often as needed. Are you going to taper or go cold turkey off of your P.S. Tea?
 
Shroomy: Yes, you are right. I am older than you, and therefore, I do not even need records to see my new pain management specialist. However, anyone 31 years of age or younger cannot even make an appointment until the office has their medical records in hand.
 
I am lucky, relatively speaking, to have the treatment that I have. There are a lot of people with nothing and that makes me sad because it really is shit. Anything at all is much much better than nothing.

I am just going to try and relax, easier said than done. I feel very burnt out though and it is those aching upper arms. If I don't post in the near future I probably took some extras to get relief because this is really getting to be a little much with the physical symptoms lingering on. I can tell it's going to be a while longer, and... what do you do if you fuck up a taper anyway? I feel like a total relapse / giving up isn't the best thing to do. I'm just asking because I am pretty much about to put 40mg into my body. Fuckin upper arms got me, I seriously can't experience this any longer, over a week is enough time for me. I always cave on my taper day 7 - 10 sometime... which is shitty because the symptoms are improving, but they have been ongoing for so long that I simply need a break.
 
Shroomy: When I cave on my taper, I just try to get back on track as quickly as possible. I have been tapering over and over for a year; maybe I am not off my drugs completely, however, my dosage has not been increased in this time frame. And, the nature of addiction is, as far as my experience is, if I do not give up, eventually one of these tapers will be the magical one that works.

For example, about 12 days ago, I was using 50mg of oxymorphone. I knew I would run out way early, so I had plans for that; I did not know my appointment would be totally canceled. So, within 10 days I was down to 10 mg a day. The days I went cold turkey I was still suffering a lot; however, I plan to resume at a low dosage and continue to try to decrease.

One thing I have read, and I don't know if you are doing this or not: recommendations for successful tapering schedules in a reduction of 10% of your total opiate dosage every week-10 days. And, if you struggle after a couple days drop, then add back 5% and stabilize there before going down again.

You said you have "extra' oxy around.
Maybe you can devise a reasonable, slow taper and increase your chances for success. Of course, you may be doing that already, but if not, it may be worth a try.

Have I taken my own advice? Not yet. My goal is to do so if/when I get my next full refill of my medication.

Thank you for being thoughtful to let us know that you may take a break from posting due to symptoms. I hope you feel better without doing too much damage to your taper, and that you are able to resume in a short period of time.
 
I haven't taken anything yet because I am at my wits end I have to beat it this time.

10% reduction sounds great. I was planning on going down from 60mg to 40mg, in 2.5mg increments each week. I am getting ahead of myself though. First I have to stabilize on 60mg. That is over 50% cut, and once i stabilize here I plan on doing the slowest possible taper because my dose will be low enough that I won't be worrying about running out so much. I always have a few extra oxy's laying around from an old script or whatever, and I could definitely revert to do a slower taper. I have my eyes set on 60mg though, and it has already been over a week. I would describe it as a rollercoaster out of hell I guess? The symptoms are not the same at all day by day.
 
I've quit / failed my tapering attempt about 10 times in the last 60 days. Every time has been because I decided today was not a good day to stick to it. Either because I was happy and I earned a break, or because I was stressed and I needed a break. Mostly it's tied to my wife and son and what I'm doing with them.
Basically it's on me to be determined enough to quit. Right now it seems I'm not ready.
 
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P0kemama said:
Brently : Welcome to our thread! Please feel free to post here as often as needed. Are you going to taper or go cold turkey off of your P.S. Tea?
Click to expand...

Hi P0kemama, thank you so much for the kind wecome! i have 9 days off work next month. My plan is to taper down for two weeks then jump. Right now it takes about 250 - 300 grams of strong seeds every 24-36 hours to keep me comfy. By 36 hours i'm pretty nauseous and antsy, though...
 
You're still testing the waters. It is common to have to revisit the situation. I am on my 2nd try in the past month. I thought I'd be feeling better at a quicker rate but I'm okay with whatever suffering comes my way. I deserve it especially for fucking around with really pure china white last year. That stuff is godly.

When I caved last time, my tolerance skyrocketed for some reason. I did a sudden drop to 40mg/day last time and I'm having a tougher time going to 60mg now. Plus, I was showing up at work on 40mg daily dose which although I accomplished, was extremely tough. I have nothing to do this time, luckily, but I am wondering: if withdrawal can get this much more severe in such a short time frame, then where am I headed? I feel like my soul is bleeding from this shit and I am losing my life force by spending it too quickly through the oxy.

I spent the past 2 hours writhing... literally writhing and time felt so slow. I took a 2mg klonopin, as well as 2 points of hash oil orally and I feel a lot better. Now it's time to dose... I made it!!! That was the hardest 6 hours to beat yet, not physically but mentally. Just shaking my arms and legs and rolling around frantically in bed. NEVER fun. I am so ready to beat this shit down to the point that it impacts my pain levels positively. My biceps feel extremely weak. I was pacing around too and now my spine hurts like hell.

I need to start taking the advice from this forum to heart. I remember a few years ago someone complimenting me for having chronic pain and only taking one perc a day. I see now how impressive that actually would be, for someone taking it long term, and how smart that would be to keep it really low. Unfortunately 1 turned to 3 turned to 6 turned to a APAP liver risk then oxycontin turned to hydromorphone turned to heroin. I remember reading so many warnings from people about where I was headed but to be honest I just didn't care at the time because my back pain is truly fucked. I can't even describe what it's like to have pain in a weird spot of the spine, and how anything at all exacerbates it and I'm constantly protecting myself.

My tolerance was so low at first I coud barely even handle a 10mg oxy with the benzos. I cut my percs in half, lol. I had been suffering so much for years and all of a sudden I have total pain relief from a magic pill I happen to LOVE. I picked up 1000 of them straight away and went to town for a year along with other shit. Of course I am going to chase that drug. Not only does it fix my horrific back pain, but it has the side effect of controlling everything else that is wrong with me and that generally surfaces with borderline personality disorder.

It's complicated. There is a lot of shit going on. I know I need these pills, I'm aware that I can go far enough that I will lose the privilege of using them at all or having them prescribed. I personally feel that I am on the tipping point of total self destruction. It's now or never. If I don't beat it this time, I'm going to die some day. Maybe not soon, but it will get me. Because I am already on the brink of insanity and next time will be much worse.

I understand that just getting back to normal, with my regular old pain would be too much for me as well. I got here for a reason, because I can't handle the extreme chronic pain that is here to stay until my body dissolves back into the cosmos. I can't keep on these higher doses though, they fuck my head up. I heard that oxycodone doesn't directly harm the body or mind, apart from addiction, and that was quite misleading because the way I ignore myself in withdrawal is not healthy. I'm not sure how low I can get my tolerance after abusing high purity china white last year. I am talking 90%+ and it completely wrecked me. That's totally why I have it so bad now, that fucking dope.
 
Squeaky: That is your addictive voice talking, saying you are not ready. YOU ARE READY; YOUR ADDICTION NEVER WILL BE.

I know this because I am experiencing the same thing. Oh the dogs, the dogs... I need to save some pills to watch the dogs. That is my addiction talking. Me, the rational one hidden away, knows that I can tell everyone I am taking a two week trip out of state next month; turn off the phone or don't answer it and just taper away. I am not giving up... I cannot forget my success: 50mg a day 12 days ago: today, 10mg a day.

What about your success up to now Squeaky?

Shroomi: Wow! You are a warrior! your story I bet is the same for many opiate addicts. I was prescribed 2 5mg hydrocodone and muscle relaxants after my car accident that started my use of opiates. I didn't need both pills every day! Thank you for sharing how H messed you up. I say I will never use H - OMG, I am too old to look for street stuff... but, I watched Drugs Inc. where the dealers talked about old grandmas and grandpas coming to buy H several times a day. It only gets worse.

So, I am going to keep working on my taper. Even if I am stuck in a rut at times, I am not escalating my usage.
 
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It only gets worse... unless you taper/quit.

My story is fairly typical, except that I tried dope before anything else to treat my back pain and then reverted to pain management.

I am not giving up either. Are you talking about oxymorphone? We don't have that up north but it must be potent stuff. Good job on that taper, you are at 1 fifth the dose that you were on 12 days ago? I see myself staying at 60mg for a very long while, because it was just such a drastic cut from my original use. Much lower and less frequently spaced doses. I think that within the month I will be pretty stable but who knows - maybe in a few days I will see a big difference. The only way to find out, is to stick with the plan.

I'll probably be posting frequently here while I accomplish this, for the next week or so while I struggle.
 
Yes, Shroomy, Monday Sept. 12 I used 50 mg because I had to babysit a toddler, a very active toddler in her home, which has a lot of steps. My knees, specifically one of my knees, is being destroyed by arthritis. And I injured it in the spring as well. Stairs are very painful; getting up after sitting more than 10 minutes is painful, etc. I needed to be at the level to function for the 11 hour day.

So, the first two weeks I get my script is when I try to plan anything that will be painful, as I can then taper later in the month. So, I usually have several days at 40 mgs, and try to keep the 50 mg days to only a select few; for example, when I mow my lawn. Then, I use 30 mg for some days, and so by the last week I am down to 20 mg as prescribed. I then get my oxycodone filled and that is my month. Except this month, when my dr closed down. And I went cold turkey the middle of the week when I had no commitments and could lay in bed and be sick. However, the prescribed amount has been the same: I get 2 10 mg oxymorphone ER per day.

And yes, it is very potent stuff... and the withdrawals come on rapidly for me. Enough about me:o

It will be interesting for you to see how long it takes to get stable... what comes to mind is one of the sayings in the 12 step rooms: "Don't quit before the miracle happens",
It may be just a couple of days... but you are so right.. the only way to find out is to stick with your plan. I feel excited to watch your journey!

I have to have human support to be able to accomplish this. And, I cannot go to 12 step meetings and share about tapering. It is total abstinence asap...just too rigid for me. So, that is why I labeled this thread a supportive social tapering thread.
 
That sounds rough with your knee. After my acute injury, for 6 months I would have numbness and tingling in my knees at the end of the day. It was extremely uncomfortable and debilitating, but wasn't as painful as the damage to my spine and it went away completely unlike my back getting worse. It was just horrible though, and really made me want to lay down all day.

I'm trying to do the most consistent taper possible. I feel like that's why I'm addicted too though; the consistency of the doses for so many years non stop. Actually I am dosing exactly at each 6 hour mark now. Eventually I'll probably stop feeling so much of a need to dose at those times, and I can have a little more freedom with when I dose. It just allows for the most even distribution of percocet. I have absolutely no responsibilities that I am tending to right now which is why I haven't ever needed an extra pill yet. A job interview, or even a drive in my car, would be challenging to say the least still at this time.

But it was challenging before, anyway. My last job interview, I did really well on the phone but I went in extremely sedated and stupid sounding. Must have seemed weird, this vibrant intellect on the phone and then some burnout coming in. Normally oxy gives me energy and confidence but I was nervous and took a huge dose for the interview. It fucked me over, I barely remember the interview but otherwise I would have had no chance. That was the final straw, it was such a wakeup call because I knew I could have got it.

That is why I am so pissed of now. And because last time I had a job, I had to fucking taper at work to stretch my supply out for a week and it was literal torture. My performance was so down during that time, it was hell because that's not me, I'm not lazy. I know I won't be able to work until I beat this. I got the job real fast because I was so fucking high people are blinded by it, they don't realize who I actually am, not to mention the extreme manipulation of borderline personality disorder. I have to stop doing that because I'm fucking myself at the end of the day. I am recognizing that I am starting to screw myself over from taking too much. Normally I stick to low doses because I'm on benzos too for panic disorder and I don't want to die.

I always relapse when something is demanded of me too. It's not like I can frequently take two weeks off life, which is why this is so critical. People get pissed at me, they don't get it that I'm just not really capable. Even if I don't have work I like to be able to do stuff. When I am expected to work, I'll dose more for my performance. I was taking all my meds during the work day, and then I had nothing left for after work. Even my family was noticing for once. That's the type of behaviour that I'm trying to stop since I want more stability even if it means more pain. I don't want to be this sick ever again from an opioid.

The oxycodone withdrawals hit me really hard as well. By the 3 hour mark it is a little much, that was one of my main reasons to stop. My body started metabolizing the stuff extremely quickly and without much effect after a while, it just changed. Even with larger doses it was taking me an hour to feel them before, but I am beginning to detect the hit 20 or 30 minutes after I dose. Like the good old days, almost. It's distracting having to redose ever couple hours but once every 6 would just be great. I like that this is the first time I am doing this with extra pills on hand. Makes it more comfortable and not like I'm on the edge living pill by pill. I'm going to feel so free if I can just keep this up.

I know this is a long rant but I really can't afford another mistake. Really can't this time. I just did that a couple weeks ago and saw the impact that it had. It sucks that you kind of have to start all over again. I'm not big into counting the days, but I feel the need to prove it to myself that I can handle taking reasonable doses. That's why I have pills to the max this time, instead of rationing them out. It's testing my willpower.
 
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^I enjoyed reading your post. I had the same experience with oxy. At first, I could go 8 hours between doses. Now, sometimes I feel the help it gives begin to wear off, as you said, around the 3 hour mark. Then, I get really tired. It is a crappy cycle. Once I stood outside of the cycle, and gained a wider perspective I began to see the futility of using opioids for the rest of my life to manage pain. I will spend my life chasing the oxy dragon. That is when I began to taper with more seriousness.

I think keeping a schedule of dosing every 6 hours makes sense. It does allow our bodies to adjust to a regular dose and that way, we cannot let our minds trick us into taking too many doses by dosing at 4 hours one time, 5 hours another time.

"I am going to feel so free if I keep this up." YES!!! What you wrote is so true... the longer we stay strong and motivated to taper, the more freedom we have from the slavery that is addiction. You talk about proving to yourself that you can handle reasonable doses. I find when I set a challenge for myself, and succeed, it builds my self esteem. With higher self esteem, the next challenge seems more reachable.

I respect the fact that you have been diagnosed to have Borderline Personality Disorder and chose to share that with us. I would think beating an addiction when one suffers from a personality disorder has its own set of challenges. I suffer from depression, mild mostly, and anxiety, when my life becomes stressful. At first, opioids, relieved both the symptoms associated with these illness like a charm. Now, not so much, unless I take the bigger doses However, then the rebounding anxiety just increases more and more, over time.

I am pretty anxious right now, because I have to mow my lawn. It is silly, but it sets off cravings I tell myself "You need extra so that you have energy to mow the whole yard." After I finish, I then think I need to reward myself with extra doses too. My addictive voice just keeps on chattering... and now I see it for what it is.
 
P0kemama said:
My addictive voice just keeps on chattering... and now I see it for what it is.
Click to expand...

I think it is the most powerful change agent in the world when you realize that your "own" thoughts can be working against you and you don't need to let them. I think of is as having a roommate in my head that I'm trying to evict.
 
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