Positive The Tapering Supportive/Social Thread

[Painful One]

I have an appointment in December with an award winning specialist in this stuff.
We will see what kind of “options” he suggests.

I am taking my Doctor brother with me so he can tell me the pro’s and con’s of each thing and help me.

 

[Korana]

@Painful One - You're the only person who has supported even minor codeine use right now. I appreciate it. I grit my teeth through withdrawal pain but my own condition... shit. It reminded me how I ended up here. Terrified my body couldn't cope with my job and using codeine to mask as much of the pain as possible. I've been waiting over 2 years for a rhuematologist appointment and that's the doc that can give me real treatment. Is there ever hope to balance chronic pain treatment with opiates and avoid depedence and addiction?

Ugh you deserve better treatment. You deserve a cure.
Whatever you need to try to have a better quality of life effing go for it.

 

[Painful One]

@ Korana- there is Hope to manage chronic pain and opiate/opioids. I don’t think there is a way to avoid dependence.
That is going to happen if you use them daily. It could be avoided if you can skip days in between. I did that for a long time.
I don’t know if that is possible once you have CHRONIC pain as one needs daily pain control and it is an important part of the entire
“pain management” to keep on top of the pain. It is much easier to manage pain that is in control. Once pain becomes out of control, it is hard to get it back under control.
Avoiding addiction is entirely possible. I have managed to stick to the same dosage daily for 12 years now. For the most part. I have had a few times where I honestly needed more but I have done well.

You need to consider your quality of life. You are the one living with your pain/ limitations. You are the only one who should have any right to decide what is best for you.
Other people have been hearing nothing but “opiate epidemic” for so long now that they are brain washed about anyone who uses this medication is automatically an “addict” and would be way better off without them. That is NOT true for me.
That might be true for some. You need to be brutally honest with yourself and decide what is the best choice for you.

I honestly had a family member who thought I would be “normal” if I just stopped the 60-75 mg extended release MS Contin!
I was like- “um...no, any normal person could take this dosage and go to work etc. It doesn’t paralyze you!”
That family member did not see me before having to accept the medication. Begging people to kill me.
I feel like there is a lot of pressure on us due to the medication so we try to not use it and torture ourselves to get off it and then what? We are left with our original problems that drove us to use opioids in the first place and you are thinking “oh yeah, now I remember why I cannot not have pain control.” Pain can kill. It is dangerous. You do what is right for you.

 

[Korana]

Thank you @Painful One - I'm not thinking or wanting Opiates until my pain spikes during the day. I have washed or dealt with life today. The depression has been real since yesterday.
As I'm due to go back to work tuesday I have to decide tomorrow if I go pick up a fit note and do it or take this week too. This is also my last week in my broken foot support boot. It's been more painful today than it has in 2 weeks. Feeling the pain from hypothryoidism that used to not bother me.
This is recallibration right? It sucks

My partner got up this afternoon and gave me two pills for pain (co-codamol 15mg) which didn't help per se but it took the edge of some of my chronic pain atm. An ingrown toenail on my broken foot big toe is like a knife.
Doctors threw Opiates at me pre 2013 for eye surgery, dental surgeries etc and I came off them easily after months of use. But this time, The dependence started at the same time as my job. Physical, stressful and I wasn't managing without opiods. Now I worry I can't at all without some significant pain management program. N. Ireland medicine is cruel. Chronic pain patients are left years, there are so many suicides and addictions. I had the most pathetic 3 rounds of physiotherapy. Told there was nothing they can do. I have to call tomorrow to find out if they'll put me on the appointment list for the next round of steroid shots.

I've been looking for long term coping skills around triggers for using. Work is a big one. But right now I am still crying on and off without trigger, fatigued, scared and anhedonic. I don't feel up to facing real life right now. But being at home so much is driving me nuts. Being out in the cold makes my pain rise significantly.

You deserve your meds. And whatever you need. You're in the midst of a serious medical condition and you deserve to have as normal a life as possible. If that means opiates then you're in the percentage that needs them and shouldn't be questioned. I hope you advocate for yourself with anyone you need too. People are so cruel until they walk in your shoes.

 

[Boober]

Sorry, haven't been here as regularly the past couple of days.

The way my body handles the lack of opioids is with the pain returning first and eventually WD symptoms returning. Lately I've been having dysphoria before the pain even comes back, which makes it much harder to taper... Must be the return of my body not making the feel-good chemicals naturally again, so I really need to get my ass in motion. It feels like the agmatine has stopped working for me. Not sure what to do about that and if taking a break from it will have any benefits if there's even tolerance to such a thing... I don't know. Sorry if I'm not answering some stuff. Feeling a bit overwhelmed with stuff

 

[Painful One]

Just take it slow and easy guys. Don’t get overwhelmed. Realize that is a feeling that will go away and things are not as bad as they seem.
I know you Both are feeling the withdrawal effects and I hate that one where you are totally freaked about being in public, working, etc.
You just feel weird and think others are noticing a lot.
Everything seems so hard and horrible.

Once you get passed that and you will. It takes a little time. There are comfort meds and ways to help make it through the withdrawal reasonably comfortably. Slow taper is a good plan.
Reassess how bad the pain and disability is. Weigh the pro’s and con’s.
You just might feel WAY better without it, after the withdrawal goes away.
There were times where it was better without it for me.

@Korana- Are you from Ireland? The Emerald Isle? Wow! I love the magic about that place!
Thank you also. I am going through a serious medical condition and I need not feel bad at all about whatever I have to do.

@Boober- I don’t know about the Agmatine but I am sure you could find some information on here about it and other helpful things.
keep moving!

I hope you both feel better soon!! Try the sleepytime extra tea.

 

[Boober]

Got some different stuff from my guy the other day that was kinda weird and seemed to have spiked my tolerance up pretty heavily... Do people put like small amounts of methadone or something in their stuff sometimes? Definitely made things more difficult for me. Things were already getting tough due to my dopamine, seretonin, etc levels starting to noticeably drop and my pain + anxiety rising. Still haven't been able to get in for a phys. therapy session yet (need to wait for approval or something).

All this is starting to bring back some of my ptsd symptoms such as agoraphobia. Fuck, man. Need to start stepping it up with the physical activity no matter how little energy I have. The time period from now until my body starts producing the good stuff by itself already feels forever. Morale is lower again, but it doesn't mean I'm gonna stop unless something literally stops me. Just needed a little vent sesh.

How are y'all doing since our last posts?

 

[Squeaky]

Thanks for the Kindness PainfulOne.

I’m not sure if I have said this here before or not..... (Seems that I only come back to BlueLight now when I’m bored or suffering or excited because I got my script filled.)
Now I’m relying on oxycodone and Kratom for pain in my neck, shoulders, arms etc. Also for sleep and stress. It works well for all of that but I started taking it because of lower back surgeries. I do have plenty of pain at or below my waist and of course the opiates work for that. The burning question in my mind now is this:
How did I make it so many years before pills?
The answer is probably that I don’t need the pills as much as I say I do. The pills are causing pains that I take them to cure and those pains last for months after I stop using them. My doctor actually told me that withdrawal doesn’t start for about 1-2 days after stopping use and only lasts for under a week. That’s simply not true.
Withdrawal from oxycodone starts as soon as 2 hours. And the worst of the physical wds are done in a week, but the long term effects last more than a month. The psychological troubles can be up to 3 months. This is why the really good rehab facilities are 90 days and they start with immediate cold turkey.
I finally suggested to my spouse that I would benefit from having someone keep my pills for a while so I could get away from them, but of course that was 3 days after my new script and I just kept saying “one more day” until the bottle was empty. Now I’m back in that familiar place-withdrawal. I’m becoming a professional addict it seems. Dunno if I should be grateful to the Dr who keeps me in pills, or pissed off at him for keeping me addicted.
I suffer through half of the month with only Kratom now. I get to be happy only 7 or 8 days out of every 30. Miserable for 5 or 6. Then waiting for my next refill for 2 weeks. The back surgeries were bad. And the recovery was bad. But planning my life around pills is definitely worse.

 

[Squeaky]

As for Loperamide. I have taken close to 200 mg per day and not had much trouble. But that’s coming down from 300mg a day of oxy. Seems about 1/2 of what you take daily is a good maximum of Loperamide. The point of Loperamide is to reduce your withdrawals(mainly the diarrhea and nausea). It’s not magic and its not a long-term solution, and it doesn’t make your insides feel too great at high doses. Anything is better though, than laying in bed for a week feeling like death and trying to still help your kids with homework.
Make sure to overlap lope use with your opiate that your quitting by at least 24 hours. Lope builds and lasts in your system. It also knocks out other opiates from working. So a 24-48 hour transition at about 1/2 your current dose will work best. And take some laxatives and stool softeners.
Ex.
60 mg Norco daily= approx 30 mg lope daily. Overlapping 48 hours if possible. Dosing lope 8-10 mg every 6 hours. Best to dose lope 2 hours before starting your day to minimize wd’s on the ride to work. Start cutting back by about 10% every day beginning day 4 or 5.
Wd’s are coming for sure, no matter what you do. For me, Loperamide really takes away the fear that I’m going to die.

 

[Hylight]

I have an appointment in December with an award winning specialist in this stuff.
We will see what kind of “options” he suggests.

I am taking my Doctor brother with me so he can tell me the pro’s and con’s of each thing and help me.

Painful One, I am so sorry what you are going, through. I remember your kind words to me you shared about the cluster headache.

I hope the best for you and you are in my thoughts and prayers. Thank you for being a comfort and so much help in the community with all of your kindness and support and inspiration always.

Please take care and and we are so blessed to have you here to share kindness and strength together. Thank you for all you do and please keep on being so very strong. ♡

 

[Squeaky]

Lyrica is great but beware tgat extended use can bring horrible withdrawals. Worse than opiates for some folks. Keep it to only a few days and realize that tolerance jumps by huge percentages each day starting at day 1. So 300 mg on the first day to get the same as 450 on the second day, maybe 600-750 the third day, etc. Short term use = nausea and insomnia for a couple of days for me.

 

[Boober]

Thanks for the Kindness PainfulOne.

I’m not sure if I have said this here before or not..... (Seems that I only come back to BlueLight now when I’m bored or suffering or excited because I got my script filled.)
Now I’m relying on oxycodone and Kratom for pain in my neck, shoulders, arms etc. Also for sleep and stress. It works well for all of that but I started taking it because of lower back surgeries. I do have plenty of pain at or below my waist and of course the opiates work for that. The burning question in my mind now is this:
How did I make it so many years before pills?
The answer is probably that I don’t need the pills as much as I say I do. The pills are causing pains that I take them to cure and those pains last for months after I stop using them. My doctor actually told me that withdrawal doesn’t start for about 1-2 days after stopping use and only lasts for under a week. That’s simply not true.
Withdrawal from oxycodone starts as soon as 2 hours. And the worst of the physical wds are done in a week, but the long term effects last more than a month. The psychological troubles can be up to 3 months. This is why the really good rehab facilities are 90 days and they start with immediate cold turkey.
I finally suggested to my spouse that I would benefit from having someone keep my pills for a while so I could get away from them, but of course that was 3 days after my new script and I just kept saying “one more day” until the bottle was empty. Now I’m back in that familiar place-withdrawal. I’m becoming a professional addict it seems. Dunno if I should be grateful to the Dr who keeps me in pills, or pissed off at him for keeping me addicted.
I suffer through half of the month with only Kratom now. I get to be happy only 7 or 8 days out of every 30. Miserable for 5 or 6. Then waiting for my next refill for 2 weeks. The back surgeries were bad. And the recovery was bad. But planning my life around pills is definitely worse.

With chronic pain, this is usually the question. To be dependent or be in pain? I don't know... Thanks for the info. First time I've ever heard anyone say anything about lope knocking out opioids from receptors. Don't think I'll use it since I'm prone to constipation in general. Lyrica makes me crazy wired like I just did a handful of cocaine and has put me into one of the worst PTSD episodes I've ever had. Gabapentin seems to have somewhat of a positive effect. I'm hoping to taper down to a point where I can switch to kratom.

It's kinda scary and also pisses me off how so many medical professionals don't seem to know such common knowledge about things like chronic pain, WDs, etc. I'm with you on this chronic pain/ opioid bullshit path. Fuck this

 

[Zonxx]

As for Loperamide. I have taken close to 200 mg per day and not had much trouble. But that’s coming down from 300mg a day of oxy. Seems about 1/2 of what you take daily is a good maximum of Loperamide. The point of Loperamide is to reduce your withdrawals(mainly the diarrhea and nausea). It’s not magic and its not a long-term solution, and it doesn’t make your insides feel too great at high doses. Anything is better though, than laying in bed for a week feeling like death and trying to still help your kids with homework.
Make sure to overlap lope use with your opiate that your quitting by at least 24 hours. Lope builds and lasts in your system. It also knocks out other opiates from working. So a 24-48 hour transition at about 1/2 your current dose will work best. And take some laxatives and stool softeners.
Ex.
60 mg Norco daily= approx 30 mg lope daily. Overlapping 48 hours if possible. Dosing lope 8-10 mg every 6 hours. Best to dose lope 2 hours before starting your day to minimize wd’s on the ride to work. Start cutting back by about 10% every day beginning day 4 or 5.
Wd’s are coming for sure, no matter what you do. For me, Loperamide really takes away the fear that I’m going to die.

so.... would this loperamide do anything for me i'm on 400mg 40mg oxy 9mg hydromorphone(dilaudid) / day, i'm open to suggestions on anything better than cocaine really, because thats all that truly allows me to function and keeps the pain and wd under control while i use it, amps assist in a way that, they make time fly so i don't notice how long i've been suffering but can only take so much till i get edgy andd when my lyrica/kpins run out, i gamble by taking them and i'll just say i take quite high doses, but i'm just so stupid tolerant physically and mentally to stimulants right now it's frustrating.

 

[Squeaky]

so.... would this loperamide do anything for me i'm on 400mg 40mg oxy 9mg hydromorphone(dilaudid) / day, i'm open to suggestions on anything better than cocaine really, because thats all that truly allows me to function and keeps the pain and wd under control while i use it, amps assist in a way that, they make time fly so i don't notice how long i've been suffering but can only take so much till i get edgy andd when my lyrica/kpins run out, i gamble by taking them and i'll just say i take quite high doses, but i'm just so stupid tolerant physically and mentally to stimulants right now it's frustrating.

Loperamide is really only a good choice if your only other option is cold turkey because you ran out. It’s not a beautiful feeling, just a lot better than full blown withdrawals.
If you’re staring down the barrel of running out then it’s definitely a good option. Take every opiate you take in a day, convert to MME(morpheme medical equivalent), divide by two and that’s about the maximum Loperamide per day you would use. Maybe use less if you’re scared(maybe smart to be cautious). Break it into 4 doses per day and try to start 24-48 hours before quitting your regular opiates. Allow at least one whole day on only Loperamide at that dose. I might do as much as a whole week. Then start cutting down by 10% per day, every day, until done. That means today’s dose cut by 10%, so each cut is less and less.
Know that Loperamide is a very long acting opioid. It stays in your body for several days, so you’ll have more in your body on day 4 than on day 1. And take a stool softener and a laxative every day. People use it to get high, but its like getting drunk on really cheap beer. It makes your blood feel dirty. Also know that extended use at high doses can cause heart problems.
Ultimately you’re much better off tapering off your current opiates but that has never been an option for me because I always run out.

 

[Squeaky]

so.... would this loperamide do anything for me i'm on 400mg 40mg oxy 9mg hydromorphone(dilaudid) / day, i'm open to suggestions on anything better than cocaine really, because thats all that truly allows me to function and keeps the pain and wd under control while i use it, amps assist in a way that, they make time fly so i don't notice how long i've been suffering but can only take so much till i get edgy andd when my lyrica/kpins run out, i gamble by taking them and i'll just say i take quite high doses, but i'm just so stupid tolerant physically and mentally to stimulants right now it's frustrating.

Try Kratom to help with withdrawal. It has two compounds. One is a stimulant, the other is a sedative. At low doses it acts like cocaine. At higher doses it acts like an opiate. At even higher doses it becomes a powerful sedative.

 

[Squeaky]

Ok. So. I’ve been taking huge amounts of Kratom for a few weeks now. I got my refill of oxy today. I took 90mg of oxycodone and felt absolutely nothing even though I haven’t had any in almost 3 weeks.
Yep...... the Kratom has completely trashed my tolerance for opioids. That 90mg should have caused an overdose.
PainfulOne- you were 100% correct. I’ll have to get off Kratom now if I will ever get my prescription to work. Now I’m a little concerned about what I would do if I need dental work ir get into a car accident.

 

[Squeaky]

I’m two days into my new script and doing EXACTLY what I have done every month for the last year. At this rate I’ll be in withdrawal for Christmas and just out of pills and in pain for New Years. Starting tomorrow I have promised myself that I will lock away my pills for a couple of weeks or give them to somebody else to hold so I cannot do this to myself again.
I have however said the exact same words every month for about 6 months and still failed. I don’t want to do it again but I am too proud to ask for help, too weak to do it alone, and took dependent on the pills to tel my Dr the truth. It’s like a three-legged table: if I could knock off one of the legs then the whole thing would topple and I would be free.

 

[Hylight]

i am doing really good bc i am finding out that medicine can be safe !!

 

[dopiejay]

Hey guys. I used to frequent this forum a lot before I forgot my account and password. Just figured it out tonight. Does anyone here remember me? How is everyone?

 

[Painful One]

I have an appointment in December with an award winning specialist in this stuff.
We will see what kind of “options” he suggests.

I am taking my Doctor brother with me so he can tell me the pro’s and con’s of each thing and help me.

Hey guys,
I went to this appointment yesterday with this Sleep specialist/headache specialist/ neurologist and I am NOT dying from some horrific brain disease!!

but, he says I have narcolepsy! Holy fuck it was so nice to talk with someone who understood me!
He says it is going to be a long road to recovery but he can help me get a life back!!

Here I have been thinking that I am dying from some horrific brain disease for so long.
wow! It looks like I FINALLY got to the right doctor! He is actually doing things like blood tests, sleep study, etc..
He put me on Gabapentin and told me to work up to whatever dosage helps.
Does anyone know anything about Gabapentin? I am taking his word and doing what he says.
He really knew what he was talking about. Otherwise there is NO WAY I would add more medication.
I am really hesitant about adding it.

Looks like I may have to change to stimulants! Lol!