Positive The Tapering Supportive/Social Thread

[ShroomySatori]

I got 4 hours of sleep the usual. It's my schedule... 1am to 5am just about every day. Just the way it is. I'm not feeling any better but I got some weed that is at least tolerable. Expensive for what it is but it's smooth and tropical aromatic, reasonably potent nothing wrong with it. Gotta stay high of course. Not sure where to go from here. My horoscope for this afternoon is incredibly ominous so I'm hoping maybe I can take an afternoon nap and wake up for the evening. As Venus my ruling planet connects with the lord of the underworld. I'm stoned enough to be paranoid about that shit. I need a job really bad at this point it's driving me crazy and I feel like they're understaffed right now. They totally are their stock is low I'm going to talk to my best friend there the heavy metal dude like if they are staying open and just ask more questions and stuff cause I know a lot about what their duties are already from being there so often lol.

 

[Painful One]

Are you coming of Clonazepam Painful One?

Oh heck no. I have to take 1 mg of clonazepam at night for sleep disorder.
It really helps for that.
I just screwed myself over by using some loperamide and have been going through loperamide withdrawal.
So dumb I know. Long story, you know how it goes.

Shroomy though, is coming off major benzo's of all different mixtures.
He also needs them for severe anxiety disorder and stuff.
He tried to cut his dose by 50 percent and went into benzo withdrawal. Well, he still is in it somewhat.
He is stabilizing on a larger dosage now.
Pray for him!

 

[freesolo123]

I was on Clonazepam 6mg ED for about a year and came off, it can be done with the right mindset

 

[Painful One]

Well my ruling planet is The Moon and I can pull on the tide! You are not going into the underworld too far my friend.
Don't be paranoid about that. You can step by step, little by little get this thing whittled down. We need to keep you stable during all of that time though. Don't forget that.

Listen to your body. Watch the signs and pull back the second you feel the first sign.

You are in a dangerous situation but this is not impossible at all. Completely doable. Comfortably.
That is the way to go.

 

[Painful One]

I was on Clonazepam 6mg ED for about a year and came off, it can be done with the right mindset

I agree. He is a warrior.
He just came off a bunch of China white and Afghanistan tar. H
Cold turkey and has made it almost a year now!
He is doing great, considering.
He is going to get feeling a lot better real soon now.

 

[ShroomySatori]

I got messed up enough that I often forget that drugs were involved. A lot of them. My condition should improve, and yeah I have a serious long term benzo tolerance and habit. I am skipping some doses today to get back on track. Chilling with the benzos on maintenance doses for the next week or so though it has been too stressful on me.
Afghan stuff was #4 which is the hydrochloride salt too. I never tried tar before. To me it feels that the euphoria is so strong and all the medicinal effects are powerful enough that I have no idea how long it will take to have initiative and everything back. Seems like I borrowed lifetimes of happiness, energy, sociability, pain relief, creativity; all those positive things it can do at first. Am I able to pay it back
I don't think the 4 hour sleeps are helping. I might start taking melatonin for a bit, see if it helps.
It's easy to forget about the withdrawals. No way I haven't been scarred by that. I'm hoping to find work soon just need to toughen up a little more.

True, your ruling one is the moon. I did seem to come to a moment of clarity today since I haven't been so high. If I want to achieve my goals, I can't be getting this high anymore. I can definitely use psychedelics and weed but the benzos have to go. I will have to come up with a plan. For now I'm still stabilizing that is the first step. To get stable. I am far from stable right now but it's not too far away. Just involves taking meds on a schedule, not too high a dose and also not smoking weed as an escape. Just a little of that dope is always better for me. The way I like to smoke is wait as long as I can and take the biggest hit and only one, then lay down and chill. I did that like 4 hours ago, was nice.

I've pretty much been in withdrawal for 2 years now. I am counting all the detoxes and relapses, when I started the process to quit. For the majority of that time I was in withdrawal. It's wearing me down.

 

[Painful One]

Good thinking. I agree, the first step is to stabilize. It is wearing you down. You need a reprieve from constant withdrawal.
Give yourself some time to get healthy where you are.

Damn the withdrawal can get intense. Way worse than I ever imagined!
I don't want to ever go through this again. I'm so tired from this last month. First the morphine withdrawal while using some loperamide as a withdrawal aid and now loperamide withdrawal. This loperamide withdrawal has been the worst of the worst.
So long lasting too. I only used the lope for 10 days! I went through 11 days morphine withdrawal. I reduced the lope rapidly and even skipped a day.

Major back pain today and neck pain. Restlessness. Over all, I'm feeling a lot better. I'm managing to keep to my scheduled medication dosages too. This will be good when I come out of it completely. I think getting a full nights sleep last night was a good sign.

I just kept sticking to my schedule no matter what and things are straightening themselves out. It has taken a lot longer than I expected. Still not there yet.

Stay safe my friend. Be careful with the benzo dosages.

 

[ShroomySatori]

Agreed. Once I continue to take etizolam every 6 hours on schedule and find the appropriate dose, I will at least be panic and interdose withdrawal free for the most part. Then I can begin tapering off it.

In the meantime, I can probably drastically lower the dose of etizolam, and rapidly so, by taking 10mg valium a day and allowing it to build up in my system as the other wears down. I took 10 of those valiums when I got them so I've had to stop taking them for a while now, I've been waiting for the day that I will have enough to take 1 pill of them a day consistently. This is the one I plan on staying on it's an excellent anxiety med at that dose for panic disorder and really hard to get prescribed.

Just don't forget about the withdrawal once you go through it.

I have been having neck pain as well. Today I feel depressed and I have some muscle aches from skipping a benzo dose. I don't feel anxious, more sleepy. You wouldn't believe how much I've been sleeping lately... but I think my body just needs it since I was even passing out from very heavy sativa weed.

I'm glad you got a full nights sleep. I've been sleeping so much but it's broken sleep - afternoon, wake up in the evening, stay up late, pass out, stay up for the morning - I'm not stable yet.

I am worried about how you are talking about your heart skipping beats or whatever it is you mentioned. How much of that stuff were you taking because anything over 50mg I think is cardiotoxic. It's really good in withdrawal if you take like 20mg it stopped the bowel issues. But it shouldn't be taken in high doses at all so I hope you are okay. You should be fine are you sure it isn't anything else? Just don't take any more of it.

 

[Painful One]

I won't take anymore ever again.
It is worrisome about the heart beating skipping etc.
that sometimes happens to me due to high pain levels and I have been in high pain levels but I think this is from the stupid lope.

I did take one dose of 48 mg to start and then rapidly tapered over 11 days. I only used the lope for 10 days though. I skipped a days dosage because I was trying to be in some withdrawal so as to taper the morphine back down.

I know it seems insane that this bad of a withdrawal can happen with lope but I am reading it and I am experiencing it also.

I am pulling out of it. It has been a real nightmare though and long.

Good to hear you are sleeping. Take any and all the sleep you can get! You need it to regenerate.
You are dropping benzo dosages again today??
You really need to stay stable on those dosages of benzo's.
I know you are trying but that is going to keep you in a constant state of withdrawal.

 

[ShroomySatori]

Well I took a little too much yesterday, and I want to dose at the time I've normally been dosing at. So I'll take my normal dose in an hour from now although really I'm definitely in withdrawal at the moment. Having just a had a little outburst. My heart rate is up and I feel threatened. lol

I'm also just real baked I just took two bong tokes today but they were heavy ones I don't know I might dose an hour early that makes more sense if I'm in withdrawal. It won't make much of a difference and yeah it's just that I feel like I could havea seizure right now like actually. So I should dose an hour early because yeah like I haven't all day. It's cause I raised my dose yesterday a little high and was still feeling it but being short acting and all like I need to dose it.

yeah so I am going to dose that and check back in. As I am already having a full blown panic attack.

 

[Painful One]

Yeah take your benzo dosage. I have recently come to learn (and I must say that I am a slow learner, holy Jesus God) that every time we put ourselves in withdrawal from either benzo's or opiates or anything you take; there is a kindling effect so that next time it is like five times as worse as before.

I have also come to learn that once the withdrawal starts really rolling that there is no recall on it. To some degree it runs its full course. Even if you some how managed to make it more comfortable on yourself. You are still putting your body through that.

We can't take this anymore my friend. I can't take this anymore at least. I don't want you to either.

Right now, we absolutely must keep it stable. Even if that means we have to show up at our doctors and tell them how very dumb we have been. I know we are both going to be a bit short on meds because we have been to the ultimate line of suffering where we could die from withdrawal now. So no more taking any extra anything. These are the consequences.

I have not been able to figure that out for the life of me!

I sincerely hope that someone out there thinks upon my words very carefully!

 

[ShroomySatori]

Never liked that thought about kindling. Seems discouraging. My final opiate withdrawal has been the easiest.

Isn't the recall a relapse? Yeah I think I misinterpreted you at first. I think you mean that like even a year later you still subjected yourself to that. It is depleting in a way that is really hard to get back. The worst for me were when I would go back and forth continuously over short periods of time that turned into longer periods of back and forth. Since I couldn't take care of myself. If I go into a withdrawal healthy and a with a little extra weight that is best, and often not the case. The best withdrawals I had were ones that were sort of planned in advance, and when I hadn't been sick in months, since I would be healthy going into them.

Even if you do that though, there is no way I feel great right away. Usually I pass out for a day. Then I wake up and that is when I'd feel the effects, after sleeping. Then life would resume as normal but everything I am doing is cleaning up the mess I neglected in withdrawal. Just normal things like laundry, and especially cooking since I'd be skinny. Before this I may have been progressing in yoga, so I have to start over with that too. It just seemed that whenever I got the ball rolling again and was making progress enough to have time to examine my life, I'd be either running low or sick again. I always thought if only I had a constant supply and to a degree there is some truth to that in theory. It's not like I would "get well" though unless I was already using for a while. I'd regain the capability to take care of myself after a long time.

Those were the worst times for me - the times when I ran out of money and got sick. Since, once I was good and sick I would lose the means of being able to acquire more money for the dope. And that is no fun. I would get so depressed that I'd lose the drive to even use it anymore and that's sort of how I stopped it with the H. The oxy I just ran out of prescriptions, got too sick again, and couldn't be depended on to make another appointment for a refill.

Just writing that makes me feel a little better today because I have really been stagnating lately. I don't know what to say my friend it sounds like you and I have been wearing ourselves out. It got horrible for me though when I started relapsing more frequently. If you have to put yourself through that once a month you are not going to be recovered a month later even if it was for a few days to me that is the kindling effect along with already being off track with your meds and a loss of hope and increased stress and all that. Just an example of how we are wearing our bodies down. And it shows. It shows up way more than just when withdrawal comes around.

 

[Painful One]

Yeah. This is a lot to take in and to try and understand. It has been so hard to separate what is happening since we really do have other health issues.

It is very discouraging to finally come to the realization that we have been pretty much living in a constant state of withdrawal for way too long now!

We have depleted ourselves so badly that I don't even know if it is possible to recover. We will probably require medication for the rest of our lives. I am thinking that at this point it is imperative for us to keep things stable. We must allow our bodies some time to get a grip. I know it shows all the time. It is so fucking embarrassing!

Feels like we have just been spinning our wheels in deeper and deeper. It is super discouraging.

I didn't know what else to do. Since I was in that car accident, I have been in so much pain and not thinking clearly at all.
I have absolutely had to keep myself "functional" on some level because of family and I must be able to shower, dress myself, cook, eat, sleep, etc. I had to keep myself going too in order to help take care of my dad through horrific disease and now my mom is going down. They need me.

I simply cannot keep doing this to myself though. I will not go through withdrawal again. I may not even make it through this one. It feels like it may kill me. I will have no choice but to tell my doctor what has happened and pray he doesn't drop me as a pain patient because I will die. I totally know what you mean about getting to the point where you are just not able to do anything to help yourself. Not even get more drugs. Not even feed yourself. We would just sit and starve to death too before we even attempted to get ourselves some food even!

I don't know what is the best thing to do now. What are your thoughts on that? I am thinking about this very hard too. I hope the right answer comes to us. We have got to get ourselves healthy again.

 

[Painful One]

"Isn't the recall a relapse"?

That is a disturbing thought there my friend.

I mean, is it a relapse? Like, if I have been running out a few days short on medication every month for this last ...pretty much year and a half... Is that a relapse? I guess it is. Just the running myself short on medication is a relapse. I had been able to take it for almost nine years without any days short. It has just been this last year and a half that I seem to require a bit more or I never have a good day. So I thought, well fuck, I have to have some good days even if that means I have to endure withdrawal for a few days.

Except it is not just for a few days. Even though I refill my medication it does not really recall the withdrawal?? Just keeps me from feeling it so much. I am just realizing I have been living in a constant state of withdrawal I think. For how long?
Was I in withdrawal the entire 9 years that I was able to keep it stable? I don't think so because I was only on a few lortab a day before I got put on morphine.

 

[ShroomySatori]

I think I'm just confused by the word recall maybe. Yeah I run out of valium a few days early every month. I can't take it today and tomorrow which just sucks since it's already been some days. It is the most stabilizing benzo. I had to have a talk with my doctor about it last time lol. That's why she was so reassuring she wasn't taking me off it. She was just like those extra pills are not to add to your daily dose it's like if she's away or something. I actually have a really sick benzo script it's great like if I was out of this mess.

It's only natural to run out a few days early if you're taking the same dose daily you'll need more on some days that's more of a problem with the medical system not you. A relapse is like if I were to do a line after over a year now and ran with it. Even once would be too much though.

 

[Painful One]

When I use the word "recall". I am speaking about that thing that happens where if you don't take your medication, run out, etc.
You start going into withdrawal from it. Then, when you take the medication again, it takes all those symptoms away. Seems to make it stop and you become stabilized again? Right? Thinking clears up etc.

Or...is your body still going through some amount of "withdrawal" for whatever period of time a full withdrawal would take?

Do you see what I am asking?

I think what I may be experiencing is "breakthrough pain". My doctor asked me at the start what I needed for "breakthrough pain" and I didn't know what he was talking about. I thought, why would I need more than 75 mg morphine a day? That ought to cover it.
I think I just better tell him what is happening and see what he says. I am not a doctor.

My family just keeps telling me that all of this is being caused by the medication. I am actually considering what they are saying very seriously. I don't think that is the case because I tried to make it without medication and I ended up liver failure from Tylenol.
I had not slept in literally one year or more. I don't know how I kept my job that way. I kept thinking, good god what does it take to get fired. I needed to stop working immediately.

 

[ShroomySatori]

Well, if you have been through a withdrawal then you should rest up. If you've been in withdrawal a little while your body will have the meds but will be weakened. You are no longer in withdrawal but you can be weakened, stressed, dehydrated, malnourished, low on sleep and it's not like you'll feel your best right away.

If you have increased pain after withdrawal it's likely due to the stress your body endured in withdrawal this happened to me frequently.

Is your morphine extended release or instant release? I wouldn't stress about the loperamide. You have been through a lot lately.

 

[Painful One]

Okay. Thanks. That answers my question.
That makes sense. You are right.

Yeah, I need to just smoke some weed and eat, sleep and chill.
I have been through a withdrawal and it has left me weak and not quite okay yet.
I have been through some serious shit lately too. It is amazing I am doing as well as I am.
I have managed to get my MS Contin dosage back on track! I was at a higher tolerance.

I am prescribed the extended release MS Contin. 30 mg pills. They work for twelve hours.

I'm sorry that you have to go without your Valium prescription for two days.
That really sucks. That would be really too hard on me to go through that again right now.
Are you going to be alright? You do have some other things that you can use.

 

[ShroomySatori]

Yeah I went through it so many times for me it was over and over like that on a regular (not monthly) basis with the heroin. I just mean that my body was so weakened by the withdrawal and then doing it over and over without recovering that's how I got strung out. I don't look the same in pictures from that time, I wasn't a skeleton until withdrawal but there's something just... different about that person. I look thinner now like my cheekbones. Not in a bad way but I'm different than before even in appearance. Random tangent. I've lost a lot of weight recently. Anyways. You are likely malnourished and need a day or two to rest up. Make sure with the hydration and healthy eating. This is why you are confused I think. You took your dose but still don't feel right? Then, it is definitely because of the stress your body went through recently. I am sorry to hear that. The same thing has been going on with me and benzo withdrawals this year. They leave me utterly exhausted after a week of that shit.

Oh okay so what your doctor means by breakthrough pain is when you are taking an extended release pain med but the pain 'breaks through' - then you are prescribed something faster acting like you'd probably get percocet or a low dose dilaudid to take if you have random pain flares. Not like on a schedule.

Well, I have etizolam which is great for anxiety I won't really be in benzo withdrawal but valium is the real medication I use for panic disorder. I need to be taking one of them daily to be stable. I fucked around with them a bit when I first got them because it had been so long since I had taken them this last script. So it's been like a week of no valium and that is stressing me I notice interdose withdrawals and I sort of always have muscle cramps. I have way more anxiety than normal too, just about stuff like going to yoga. The valium really works better and makes me feel more comfortable and stable because I just have to remember to take it once a day and I'm good once it gets into my system for a while. I could start taking them now, and then I'd have to wait two days for the prescription, and that might be a much better idea because I have stuff to do tomorrow and Wednesday and going two days without it isn't so bad. I've already gone a while without taking it and I definitely notice. A lot of muscle tension right now, hostility towards others, and extreme anxiety about going anywhere like I really wanted to go to yoga tonight. Less appetite but I'm not having panic attacks or anything. Kind of sucks I don't know what to do. Thing is I want to already be taking it as prescribed when I get the script that's why I want to wait out the days now even though they are my busy ones of the week. So I have to wait.

 

[Painful One]

This is horrible. Let's not put ourselves through this if we can help it. Try your hardest.
I will go with a lower dosage for a day here and there to make up for the couple I needed to use during that withdrawal.
I'm going to make sure that I never run myself completely out again.
At least that is what the goal is. I'm trying.
This is hard learning how to live with this chronic pain and stuff.

Keep an eye on how you feel. If you are doing alright then yeah, try to make it. If you get feeling too bad then take one.
Is there something that would help you to save some of those extra ten?
If you even put five away, you would have those now.
You don't want to do this to your body and I can only imagine how uncomfortable you are.

I hope you are able to get some sleep. And some peace.