Positive The Tapering Support Thread v 2.0

[smokeymcpot42088]

Wow. Sorry for my arrogance.

It sounds like you’re just a little off track with your medication. I’ve definitely been there, and getting back to a good maintenance dosage is a hell of a lot harder than it sounds. Especially if you’re over-using it to ‘function’ better. Once in a while doesn’t matter much. It’s when it becomes an everyday thing that causes real troubl
I’ve been a functioning alcoholic for 25 years. I feel your pain on that one. Last night I guzzled almost a liter of gin in roughly 5 hours. And I’ve done that every evening for probably 2 years without a break this time.

I accidentally stumbled on something that works for me to not have problems. I never drink in the morning, no matter how crappy I feel (owning my hangover and going to work is how I stop from being angry at myself). I stopped drinking beer to get drunk because there’s so much other stuff in the can that will make you feel like shit (don’t believe me? Go drink 20 non-alcoholic beers and you’ll still have a hangover in the morning). I do my best to mix my gin or vodka with water, maybe a little lime, that way I’m not also drinking a gallon of soda. I stick to clear liquors because they use chemicals to add color and flavor. And buy in bulk. Why spend $10 on the little bottle when I know I’ll be doing it again tomorrow and I can get the giant bottle for $20? I can get my buzz and pass out for about $10 per day, maybe less.

I did not mean to imply arrogance at all. I even noted that I usually agree with you and your opinion is to be respected. (that was sincere if it came across not so; my bad).

I currently take less than I am prescribed so I am not sure what that whole paragraph is addressed to me or not.....if so you are off base. ....

no pain thus far after 20+ yrs.....I feel your pain with alcohol though, that shit is horrible and I came close to catching an addiction to it....but in the end it just isn't worth the bodily harm; causes cancer in damn near everything but the retina of the eye.

Man no offense and I really don't mean to come off as arrogant because I certainly do have my own issues; but a liter of gin as a fucking lot to be drinking every night for any period of time; you might want to have your liver looked at and try to taper it down a bit.

Speaking of my problems I never buy more than a dose of alcohol at once. If I do I will binge through it because that is who I am....I have never hit a liter a day but I have hit a fifth which I think is 750 ml, so close.

*edit, you really think that alcohol isn't super harmful? In the spirit of harm reduction I don't think such things should be said unless there is some evidence to back it up. Am I wrong in saying alcohol is a major cause of diabetes? And well looking fat (swollen liver, beer gut w/e)? I will provide sources if you like but I think it is pretty common knowledge.

Drink lots of gatorade IME hangovers are mostly dehydration related. Not always but usually. Passing out after a liter of gin a day is moving towards a scary outcome. On the brightside, at least it is legal and you have the willpower to stick to $10 a day. (alcohol is way cheaper w.e. you are, lol a pint of peppermint schnapps is 5 here)

 

[smokeymcpot42088]

I'd say maybe 2-4, haven't had any crazy days with it lately. But I may need it to take the edge off of this work shift. I've only had it earlier today in the wee hours, so I'm spacing it out well enough too.

Sounds like you are down to 2 mg to a day; which is great progress in the timeframe. At this point you know the ins and outs just listen to your body; don't push yourself into a seizure but continue making progress. Again I would grap a BP medication. Benadryl will due. Nyquil as needed to sleep. I think you got it from here.

Let us know how it is going. Sorry for the double post I am bad with the quote button, if you would like to combine these feel free....

@lolismythesis IME no alcohol does not help coming off of or tapering benzos. Theoretically it should help so YMMV but for me alcohol doesn't last long enough and as I sober up my heart seems to rebound to higher than it was before; usually requiring an extra benzo. Again YMMV.

 

[kiely]

people stupidness and ignorancy and selfishness is hurting me more

Prayers, Blessings, Deep Breaths and Practice Good Choices.

But your post is making me laugh.

 

[papercuts]

people stupidness and ignorancy and selfishness is hurting me more

People are all these things, sometimes I'm not patient enough to be around other people, except my husband, I accept all that in him,

 

[papercuts]

@Squeaky how are you?
I know you feel better about drinking than taking oxy, it's legal and all your family drink. There is something "wrong" about being a "junkie" that doesn't sit well with your ideas of right and wrong. It's important we feel comfortable in our own skin and you were not comfortable about taking opiates, you couldn't control them (along with every other human on the planet) and not to be in control bothers all of us to varying degrees.
You aren't in control of drinking either, I assume? But it's a macho activity that doesn't make you sound weak, so you are more comfortable in your own skin being a drinker, or there's some other reason why it's better in your mind than opiates. It is something you were raised around I guess?
I would hate to see you add liver diesease to your problems, but I guess a few years won't damage much.
Stay with us Squeaky, I think you still have reason to be here on the "I'm trying my best" thread , besides helping you, you help others too.

 

[Squeaky]

Sounds like you are down to 2 mg to a day; which is great progress in the timeframe. At this point you know the ins and outs just listen to your body; don't push yourself into a seizure but continue making progress. Again I would grap a BP medication. Benadryl will due. Nyquil as needed to sleep. I think you got it from here.

Let us know how it is going. Sorry for the double post I am bad with the quote button, if you would like to combine these feel free....

@lolismythesis IME no alcohol does not help coming off of or tapering benzos. Theoretically it should help so YMMV but for me alcohol doesn't last long enough and as I sober up my heart seems to rebound to higher than it was before; usually requiring an extra benzo. Again YMMV.

I agree that alcohol can kill, and it does very regularly. What I meant is that it requires a tremendous amount over very extended periods to cause real damage. And we only focus on the alcohol, not whatever else is in the glass. And nobody ever sees the other bad habits that a heavy drinker has, like having a diet Coke with a Sausage McMuffin every morning. Doctors have a recent new term :” Non-alcoholic cirrhosis of the liver”. It’s because they’re seeing way too many diseased livers in people who never drank.

In America, obesity is the worst illness. We spend more health-dollars on obesity related illnesses than any other. In my opinion, high fructose corn syrup is actually the most dangerous drug we have. And we’re getting our children hooked on it when they’re babies. I’m not trying to avoid the conversation about the dangers of alcohol. I know where my overconsumption will lead if I don’t make some changes.

I’m just under a tremendous amount of stress. I have Asperger’s (high functioning Autism). The world is a very difficult place for me. Alcohol solves more problems than it causes. By the time I get home from work, I’m completely fried. I know I need to stop drinking but I also know that I’ll just replace it with something more dangerous, more expensive, or more likely to get me divorced or arrested. At least I can walk to a grocery store, buy 2 huge bottles of gin, and all I ever got was someone smiling and saying “Damn…. You mean business!”

My biggest problem right now is dehydration. Not the kind where my blood is dehydrated. It’s the kind where my bones are dry. We had a heat wave with crazy high humidity over the last 3 weeks here and I work outside. After a few days of sweating my ass off, failing to drink much water, and drinking heavily every night, I’m feeling unwell. Really unwell. I’m going to make some changes. Starting with cutting back or cutting off the drinking. Actually I’m starting with a lot of Gatorade every day. This is the worst I have ever felt physically, and it’s because I need to retain more fluids. The drinking is not the biggest factor, but it’s still a very big reason for my feeling this way.

 

[smokeymcpot42088]

Thank you squeaky.

All good points. I am frankly sick of the smokers being attacked while the cheeseburger eaters take passes. No do you eat cheeseburgers, yes, well were done with the interview.... I am fairly skinny and don't smoke but it seems like smokers are taking all the heat.

I am fairly unaware of the dangers of high fructose corn syrup, and have certainly been consuming quite a bit; this isn't the first time ive heard its bad, but usually it is some vegan trying to get me to switch grocery stores (selfish motivations) ---if you could throw me a link on the facts I would appreciate it. It scares me there may be something worse than alcohol. It terrifies me that I know I am a bigtime consumer....

As long as you are aware and not pretending alcohol is not harmful you handle your're stress how you need to. I am noone to judge at all.
Yup that is alcohols saving grace; it's social acceptability and legal status.

Personally I don''t feel good when I drink but that isn't everyone. Glad to hear your getting gatorade, I am sorry you are feeling shitty though! Hope things get better for you. Do what you gotta!

 

[Squeaky]

@Squeaky how are you?
I know you feel better about drinking than taking oxy, it's legal and all your family drink. There is something "wrong" about being a "junkie" that doesn't sit well with your ideas of right and wrong. It's important we feel comfortable in our own skin and you were not comfortable about taking opiates, you couldn't control them (along with every other human on the planet) and not to be in control bothers all of us to varying degrees.
You aren't in control of drinking either, I assume? But it's a macho activity that doesn't make you sound weak, so you are more comfortable in your own skin being a drinker, or there's some other reason why it's better in your mind than opiates. It is something you were raised around I guess?
I would hate to see you add liver diesease to your problems, but I guess a few years won't damage much.
Stay with us Squeaky, I think you still have reason to be here on the "I'm trying my best" thread , besides helping you, you help others too.

Thank you Papercuts. I’m not doing so great but I’m going to try and stop drinking.

I’ll do better.

 

[Squeaky]

Thank you squeaky.

All good points. I am frankly sick of the smokers being attacked while the cheeseburger eaters take passes. No do you eat cheeseburgers, yes, well were done with the interview.... I am fairly skinny and don't smoke but it seems like smokers are taking all the heat.

I am fairly unaware of the dangers of high fructose corn syrup, and have certainly been consuming quite a bit; this isn't the first time ive heard its bad, but usually it is some vegan trying to get me to switch grocery stores (selfish motivations) ---if you could throw me a link on the facts I would appreciate it. It scares me there may be something worse than alcohol. It terrifies me that I know I am a bigtime consumer....

As long as you are aware and not pretending alcohol is not harmful you handle your're stress how you need to. I am noone to judge at all.
Yup that is alcohols saving grace; it's social acceptability and legal status.

Personally I don''t feel good when I drink but that isn't everyone. Glad to hear your getting gatorade, I am sorry you are feeling shitty though! Hope things get better for you. Do what you gotta!

I have gathered information on the subject of high fructose corn syrup in bits and pieces of documentaries and personal experience for years, so I can’t give you a specific place to look. However:

Research Monsanto. It’s a chemical company that sells pesticides and herbicides by the ton, specifically for corn and soybeans. Recently sold to Bayer and got sued for the effects of their chemicals hurting folks. High fructose corn syrup has highly concentrated amounts of the chemicals that end up being absorbed by the plants and end up in the corn.

Nobody would intentionally injest a chemical that was meant to kill weeds or locusts, but that’s exactly what we’re doing when we drink a Coke. And the aspartame in Diet Coke might be worse.

 

[benzonomore86]

Every month I play the same game in my head:

About a week or 5 days before my refill, I say to myself that I don’t need the pills. I’m doing good enough with only Kratom and weed. I’ll save the pills for an emergency, or to help someone else in need.

The day before my refill, I plan out how I’m going to only use them to help me relax. Maybe I’ll only use them on the weekends. I do some math..... 4 pills per day= 28 per week.... divided by 2 means I can have 14 per day on Saturday and Sunday if I stick to Kratom and weed during the week. That way I won’t run out.

The morning of my refill I’m promising myself that I won’t use them because I am convinced that my weekends-only plan is solid.

But on my way to the pharmacy....... my plans change by the minute. By the time I get my full bottle of pills, I’m saying “Just once and then I’ll stick to the weekends-only plan. By that night I’m saying “Just one day. Tomorrow I’ll stick to the plan”. By the next morning I’m saying “Well, a day is actually 24 hours. SO, I’ll take some more but I’ll stop after lunch.”

3 days later I’m running out. I say I’ll taper off over the next few days but I don’t taper at all. By day 5 I’m almost out of pills and I say “Well.... if it’s going to suck anyway.... I might as well enjoy one last good day” and I use all of the last of my pills. I say I’ll be tough and it won’t suck too bad tomorrow if I just focus on work.

But that first day back to work is a bitch!! It takes me about 2 weeks to get back to feeling normal-ish (only having weed and Kratom). I see all of my mistakes very clearly and try to make plans again for the following month to not run out. I fail every time.

I can’t let go if that prescription. I’m addicted for sure, but also in legitimate pain. I know that I’m going to have to quit someday, but today is not that day. And tomorrow doesn’t look good either.

This is my exact same thought process, unfortunately. Currently doing my own short taper off xan and terrified of having a seizure like I did last time.

 

[benzonomore86]

Having support from your wife is HUGE! That’s a very important first step.

The only advice I have is make absolutely certain you have something for sleep. Benzos, weed, etc. The days suck in wd but nights without sleep will make it 100x worse.

Be careful with the benzos. It’s a seductive drug and although the sleep is super important you definitely don’t want to get addicted to benzos. The WDs are hellacious.

 

[smokeymcpot42088]

egh I am quite aware of the horrible horrible almost all consuming entity that is monsato. Hooray for noone getting viable seeds in the future.....

I will have to do my own piecemeal research on high fructose corn syrup in that case (which i should anyways). Who would of thought our friends at monsato would have a hand in it. Damn I figure they are involved with everything evil; correction: everything they are involved with is evil or a gimmick.

the aspartame in diet is bad; that goes for about any diet soda im pretty sure. And pesticides are certainly bad, especially if they make it to your mouth. Can't wash a coke before you drink it like an orange..... speaking of coca cola they have the only place in the US with paperwork to deal with cocoa leaves......so if they funnel all the cocaine alkaloids out of the leaves (I truly wonder where the runoff, or for the rest of earth "the good stuff" goes). FR though they must process ALOT.

 

[papercuts]

Thank you Papercuts. I’m not doing so great but I’m going to try and stop drinking.

I’ll do better.

Shit I don't mean to lecture at all, I'm doing so crap by comparison, but that's it, I expect you to be a lot more sensible than me because you've done so well so far!
You've helped me out whether you know it or not, I hold a huge respect for all that you are holding together every day

You'll get through this too.

I'm getting scanned for suspected cancer on Friday, I'm hoping it's ok and I can pull myself together afterwards. Right now I'm doing a fine job of falling apart.

 

[Squeaky]

(I truly wonder where the runoff, or for the rest of earth "the good stuff" goes). FR though they must process ALOT

They sell it to pharmaceutical companies who process it into prescription pain meds.

 

[Squeaky]

Shit I don't mean to lecture at all, I'm doing so crap by comparison, but that's it, I expect you to be a lot more sensible than me because you've done so well so far!
You've helped me out whether you know it or not, I hold a huge respect for all that you are holding together every day

You'll get through this too.

I'm getting scanned for suspected cancer on Friday, I'm hoping it's ok and I can pull myself together afterwards. Right now I'm doing a fine job of falling apart.

Cancer. Wow.

I would be losing my mind. I’ll say a prayer for you

 

[Squeaky]

This is my exact same thought process, unfortunately. Currently doing my own short taper off xan and terrified of having a seizure like I did last time.

I had a seizure a few years back trying to cold turkey off Ativan (lorazepam). Scared the shit out of me. I put together a long taper plan and stuck to it. Benzos are no joke.

Be careful.

 

[benzonomore86]

I had a seizure a few years back trying to cold turkey off Ativan (lorazepam). Scared the shit out of me. I put together a long taper plan and stuck to it. Benzos are no joke.

Be careful.

Thanks, I’m working on it. I wish I had more to do a longer taper but at least I have this and the anticonvulsant to “maybe” keep me from a seizure.

 

[smokeymcpot42088]

They sell it to pharmaceutical companies who process it into prescription pain meds.

Damn not at all the answer I was hoping for .......but better than what I expected the reality to be. Thanks AS ALWAYS Squeaky. And let me thank you one more time, I dont keep track of these things, but it seems like you have been holding TDS down for quite awhile; tough place to cut your teeth (as far as BL goes)
.
^you are both deadon regarding benzos.
@benzonomore --- If you care to go a little bit into what your situation is we will give you the damn best advice you can get on how to taper from w/e you are at w/e speed you must. If you dont feel like sharing thats cool too. Aim for about 10% cut in dosage every 2 weeks to a month. Marijuana I have found to be the #1 helper... but ive been a weed chimney since about 14 so YMMV. Blood Pressure medication: GET SOME, benadryl is OTC. If you don't have an opi habit it is probably best that you avoid those although they definitely do help (obviously dont get addicted or back to #1). I believe lygabapentin or pregabalin (lyrica, neurontin) hit the gabba. Alcohol in theory (didn't work for me) but is a gabba tickler........I suppose things like GHB 1.4 bute....GBL could possibly help but I would guess that would be a stronger draw than the benzos, same with opiates really.

I actually want to pat myself on the back as I have "finished" my over a decade long taper. That said I still take 2mg kpin a day. I am prescribed 4mg a day so it isn't a win as much as a respit. Btw down from 2.25-2.5 from last cut. When I started tapering I was well into triple digits.

So fucking huzzah I think I am going to have a drink tonight to celebrate after going to the dispensary. (oh yes I used every tool I could think of, even some deep cuts like nyquill and living with a large sub habit.

Suboxone---I am looking at your ugly ass with the axe now. 6-8 mg annnnnnnnnd go. (am I just giving myself reasons to come back to BL when I legitimately don't have much to offer anymore??? maybe!) ......have I seen it done over and over and tried to be nothing but helpful, Well that's the BL oath I think lol.

reaches for benadryl and attempts to start at 6. (attempts is laughable this will be a breeze down to about 3.5-4mg a day, should be alot less but i've been ignoring this and focusing on the benzos)

(goes to look for my own tapering log thread to put a stamp on it)---The hillarity, this is said thread. so 2 mg kpin a day. Benzo Taper Done. ZERO seizures, only a couple nights without sleep, my prescribed dose is still effective.........however I don't think I will ever be able to use them for any recreational purposes again. My idea of what a benzo buzz is------ has became basically impossible to achieve in tablet form. No ER trips or anything like that. TAPERING BENZOS has been about ALL I have done in the past decade but thanks to a great support system I was able to focus solely on that.

 

[Squeaky]

Just a few random thoughts…..

“ Ashton Method” for tapering benzos. It’s a year long workout plan. It works, but only it you don’t cheat. The nice thing with benzos (if there is a nice thing…) is that the day you’re finished, you’re pretty much finished. Opiates can take up to two years for the brain to return to normal. Of course it all depends on the length of time that the patient was using whatever drug we’re talking about.

Sleep:
Doesn’t matter what we’re trying to quit. Sleep is paramount. Cold turkey means not sleeping for a few days. I used lorazepam just to sleep the first time I quit oxy. But I was already addicted to it too, so I used it to sleep when I tapered off it as well. Pregablin is great for me to just disappear into the darkness of not being awake for 8 hours.

We all need help. Finding the right person for that help is really difficult. Asking for help means admitting out loud that I fucked up. I have had that word “help” choked in my throat so many times and I always just swallowed it. My life would be better if I could just cough it up and say “I need help”. But I’m too embarrassed.

Last one:
It’s not over until I’m dead. Keep fighting and there’s hope. Religion, therapy, meditation…. Anything could be the solution. Something will work. Just never stop trying. Anybody who reads this, hasn’t lost the fight yet.

 

[Squeaky]

Thanks, I’m working on it. I wish I had more to do a longer taper but at least I have this and the anticonvulsant to “maybe” keep me from a seizure.

My experience is that if you don’t have enough for a long taper then make large drops in your doses at the beginning. It’s difficult but every bit you don’t use at the beginning means a lot at the end. It’s a game of percentages. Every pill that is saved at the beginning can be two 1/2 pills at the end (or four 1/4 pills at the very end)