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The Shulgin Support Thread (feat. the tax idea)

^^ Don't you think Nichols was probably one of those friends? He almost certainly both gave and received the 'candy' gifts.
 
Anon0631 said:
^^ Don't you think Nichols was probably one of those friends? He almost certainly both gave and received the 'candy' gifts.
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true, i was just responding to entheo's comment about "real science"

nichols was indeed one of sasha's research crew members... the names are changed in the story part of PiHKAL but it was fairly easy imo to figure out which one was nichols

the only "real science" that can be done on psychedelics necessarily involves giving them to humans. entheo, the only reason nichols' work seems more like "real science" is because of the stupid american war on drugs.
 
entheo said:
Nichols developed a large amount of the compounds Shulgin is credited for. Everybody should keep that in mind; as well as the fact that he does real science with his compounds instead of passing them out like candy to his friends...
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Meaning you don't take these substances because exploring your own mind and consciousness is not 'science'? And do you think that the pharmacology of these compounds he 'passed out like candy' would have been known had it not been for human testing? Such utter nonsense.

I can't believe the amount of silly arguments people are using to justify that no money should go Sasha's way. I really don't understand it. If you don't want to give the man money because you want to spend it all on drugs, go for it, but don't try to defend it, cause it just doesn't add up.

By the way, are you saying that the compounds in PiHKAL and TiHKAL were actually created by Nichols? Even if that's true, do you think there might be a reason why Sasha published them? Did he not quite his job at a very well paying pharmaceutical company to go and work for himself, while Dave Nichols worked at Uni where he would never be allowed to test the substances he developed on fellow human beings? And lastly: if Nichols were in financial trouble, I wouldn't mind passing a few bucks his way either.
 
Nichols will likely never be in financial trouble. he's got tenure at Purdue University.

IMO tho Shulgin was very noble for forging his own path rather than conforming his research to what society said he should do. unfortunately because of that he didn't have a 401K he was paying into and etc like most people.

if only our foresight were as good as our hindsight

p.s. there's a lotta Captain Hindsights in this thread :D
 
Anon0631 said:
^ There's a lot of extreme right-wing economic thinking in this thread :-(
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I disagree 100%, Shulgin chose his path and knew it would lead to poverty down the line. Nichols did it the right way, and contributed to the world in a much more concrete, and academic way. That also happened to set him up for a comfortable life where he could continue his research for as many years as he chooses.

Face he facts, Sasha and his wife are the only ones at fault here. The psychedelic(RC) community is so over infatuated with the idea of this man. Get over it guys, it's not like hundreds of your favorite writers, poets, painters, and musicians died poor. Hes taking one for the team, there you go.
 
entheo said:
I disagree 100%, Shulgin chose his path and knew it would lead to poverty down the line. Nichols did it the right way, and contributed to the world in a much more concrete, and academic way. That also happened to set him up for a comfortable life where he could continue his research for as many years as he chooses.

Face he facts, Sasha and his wife are the only ones at fault here. The psychedelic(RC) community is so over infatuated with the idea of this man. Get over it guys, it's not like hundreds of your favorite writers, poets, painters, and musicians died poor. Hes taking one for the team, there you go.
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lol u high?!
 
Sure he put himself in this situation, there's no talking around that. But I don't really see the issue here? You VOLUNTARILY choose to support the Shulgins or not. If you think he doesn't deserve money, then sure, don't pay. If you think he does, then you're a wonderful person who wants to help someone in need. And he is in need and regardless of his life's decisions he doesn't deserve to be in his current position. Putting his great works aside for a moment, Shulgin is just a hilarious and good person so IMO he deserves a bit of money.
 
kidklmx said:
sure he put himself in this situation, there's no talking around that. But i don't really see the issue here? You voluntarily choose to support the shulgins or not. If you think he doesn't deserve money, then sure, don't pay. If you think he does, then you're a wonderful person who wants to help someone in need. And he is in need and regardless of his life's decisions he doesn't deserve to be in his current position. Putting his great works aside for a moment, shulgin is just a hilarious and good person so imo he deserves a bit of money.
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qft
 
I was one of the first who suggested the word "tax" This clearly got on many people's nerves, and for that I apologise. I have no problem with the word, yet I'm not American.

When I mentioned "Tax" I meant of course voluntary contribution. No penalties for not paying a voluntary contribution. My idea of "tax" was for people to think of giving back, as little as it may be, and do it consciously per purchase value. It should be thought as an act of love.

Love? Why love? THINK for a moment. Do you believe PD would exist if the Shulgins did not exist? Think DEEPLY.

Of course all these compounds were there to be discovered, but who would try them systematically as the Shulgins? How many years of really expensive research they saved, and for very little gain for themselves. Sasha quit his job at Dow where he had a really comfortable living to dedicate himself body and soul to the study and synthesis of these compounds. Hoffman did an amazing job with LSD and psilocybin. But Sasha was methodical and determined and he alone produced, checked, synthesized, and tested on himself hundreds of molecules. The full outcome of his research is still being processed by well funded labs and Universities, which do not many times do not even recognize his work how much paying him anything! Yet he gave everything away FREELY without expecting anything. And now he needs help and people do not want to help them refusing to "pay taxes"!

Finally, some comments here are regrettable and the authors should retract themselves, as their words show their utter narrow-mindedness and pettiness. If you don't want to give, then don't. But please, at least fake some humanity and abstain from commenting these issues.
 
crOOk said:
lol u high?!
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No, I just posses the ability to think about issues in a way that may be contrary to the concensus opinion. And I don't feel the need to idolize a man. Maybe I come off as an asshole, but it's how I truely feel and this forum allows me to express my opinions dispite what other people may think of them.

Great reply btw.
 
thenightwatch said:
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"sorry, you should've bought insurance, better luck next life"
 
true contributors to humanty never seek the monetary incentive. as tesla, so shulgin. shulgin followed his destiny fullhearted and not with a monetary exit strategy in mind. you might call him foolish for not being so farsighted in terms of capitalism, because he had something different in mind than filling his pension fund. how many great artists died with nothing, yet they did what they wanted (not had to) to do until the end?

no matter what, this man deserves respect and i think it's not asked too much to care and help him out. he published indepth description how to follow his path and shared his knowledge for free, while RC vendors make millions with his "open source" mentality. nevertheless he contributed bigtime to the entire species.

same with linus torvalds. he'd deserve the money bill gates now has for decades of selling trash. while the whole world more and more operates on the groundwork of torvalds.

the wording "tax" is a misfortune for this kind of matter. because a tax is always a "forced upon" kind of action, while a donation is an act of free and good will.
 
Alternate funding method for Shulgin

How about we let everyone who takes mdma know that its creator desperately needs their help. Spread that awareness + a simple donation page + donation subscriptions options.

EDIT: Derp, Shulgin didn't create MDMA. This whole thread was a useless idea lol

Double EDIT: Actually, if Shlugin popularized MDMA (and it could be argued to users that they wouldn't be doing it if it weren't for this man) then the main idea still can stand.

OK, so here's the new one:

Did you know that MDMA has been around since 1913? No? Well, if it weren't for Shulgin (and his popularizing it), you might have never got to experience that thing that gave you one of the most incredible experiences of your entire life!
 
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Better yet, we go with a donation box to raves and the like and approach every jaw-clenching person we see. I'm sure they'll just end up giving up the entire contents of their wallets.
 
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