The Shulgin Support Thread (feat. the tax idea)

[Anon0631]

It pisses me off that the government (in the UK at least) spend all the money on bailing out banks so their staff can continue to earn six figure bonuses. Meanwhile a true contributer languishes.

 

[Si Dread]

It pisses me off that the government (in the UK at least) spend all the money on bailing out banks so their staff can continue to earn six figure bonuses. Meanwhile a true contributer languishes.

The establishment is pretty evangelical about Psychoactive compounds & Shulgins singular postition at the forefront of compound research makes the poor man more of a target to dispatch than a gentleman deserving of government support. It might sound a little melodramatic, but I suspect many in power, now & in the past, had they known about people like Shulgin & their activities, would probably prefer to do away with folk capable of changing society to such an exent. I would not put anything past those is power! It corrupts don't you know?

Of course the future, if we have one, may prove enlightened, & perhaps one day this man will be revered as much amongst those in every-day society as he his now by many amongst our subculture.

 

[J.Wallace]

It's a genuine and thoughtful idea, one I personally think is a rather good one. However, lets be real...a lot of these vendors are in it for the money and the business...paying extra taxes is not something many people would be for, despite the good cause it's going to.

I just don't see it happening. Too many people wouldn't like the idea, one big reason I'd imagine being is people simply not wanting to pay a little extra to a family they personally don't even know, nor frankly even care about. Yes, he is responsible for so many novel compounds, something I believe many of us owe him credit for...but not to be a dick? He is just another being and I think forcing a 10% tax on other people simply for him is a little to...I don't know the word I'm looking for, perhaps forceful? Radical? extreme? Either way, I still think it's a good idea for what it is, though again i just don't see it happening.

 

[pofacedhoe]

i dont trust vendors if you want to help him donate money yourself.

a badge on a vending website to tell me that money has gone to blah blah blah. pull the other one during the last shower in which i did not come down.

 

[amanitadine]

So are you guys suggesting that paying for my surgeries, psychiatric care, and legal issues should be neglected just to make a dying man more comfortable? I have 0 regret, not donating my precious money that is already spent almost entirely on bills. Shulgin could have at least capitalized on 1 compound, patented it and made money from it through the federal government or the pharmaceutical industry.

If he mismanaged his money that is his, and his wifes fault. Being that they knew they weren't making any money thy should have seen this coming at least a decade ago. I owe nothing to Shulgin, novel psychedelics would have been synthed regardless of it being Shulgin or not. I do not even know this man, why should I contribute to extended his slow death? If he needs end of life care there is government assist readily available.

Government assistance readilynavailable? And what country are you in? Certainly not the US, where the shulgins are, and money is not readily available. You think they'd be out scrounging if there was? And he did work on and patent a substance- the worlds first organic pesticide IIRC, but was working under Dow and of course they took the lions share of the cake. And he was basically forced to go out alone after they didn't approve ofbthe direction his work was heading. And go at it alone he did, trailblazing for like a motherfucker, for basically no reward but the pleasure of making such information public, as both he and Anne really believed in the power of these substances. Of course you don't owe him anything. But if you can and want to donate, do. That's all that is being suggested, aside from the silly shulgin tax, which is a nice gesture but terribly thought out for a variety of reasons.

A lot of "shit happens, oh well, his problem" attitude expressed in this thread. Disappointing and surprising to say the least.

 

[pharmakos]

 

[bloodshed344]

I knew this thread was going to turn into an argument. If you feel that Shulgin has influenced you in a positive way and you owe him the support, then make a donation. But there are a lot of people that don't see it that way, and they're not being disrespectful or anything, they are only being honest. Personally I don't feel that anyone in the psychedelic community "owes" him anything but respect. His and his wifes financial situation is unfortunate, but they really put themselves there. I bought copies of pihkal and tihkal, and if I was in a better financial position I'd make a donation because I do empathize. I've known many people who couldn't afford proper end of life care and had to suffer greatly in their last days. It's sad. But for anyone to imply that we all owe Sasha something I think is making this out to be more than it is.

Completely agree with this but I think anyone here with a modest amount of extra money should donate. Anyone that does psychedelics at all. Shulgin is a legend and completely kick started the entire RC scene (on accident) that (while it may seem shitty now) will be the gateway to legalization of most if not all drugs. That's just my opinion. Point is you got some extra cash, you like tripping? Give shulgin a bit, he needs it. Let's face it he'll die soon anyway but maybe your money will help him release one last big contribution, one last bit of legend before he kicks the bucket. Any aspiring chemist on this board should look at people like shulgin and David nichols (who basically named a college "mescaline college" look it up on wiki lol) as heroes and the forefathers of this field that undoubtedly alot you are interested in and benefited by.

The establishment is pretty evangelical about Psychoactive compounds & Shulgins singular postition at the forefront of compound research makes the poor man more of a target to dispatch than a gentleman deserving of government support. It might sound a little melodramatic, but I suspect many in power, now & in the past, had they known about people like Shulgin & their activities, would probably prefer to do away with folk capable of changing society to such an exent. I would not put anything past those is power! It corrupts don't you know?

Of course the future, if we have one, may prove enlightened, & perhaps one day this man will be revered as much amongst those in every-day society as he his now by many amongst our subculture.

Exactly my point, we should donate because shulgin is the kickstarter of drug legalization (and hoffman and nichols) and this is the preferred goal of almost everyone on this board so we should give him a bit of money so that he can live comfortably and maybe release one last piece of legend (aka new drugs or books).

 

[bloodshed344]

No offense dude but if that's your opinion you're completely misguided. Of course he deserves the basics but that doesn't mean a "tax" should be incorporated unless the buyer wants it individually. You sound like a liberal, lol.

 

[daytryptr]

All these threads on multiple forums are trying to do is get the word out there they are in need of help financially. And the pissy attitude about how he doesn't work any more and while he made his contributions to science, is bullshit. Shulgin still does research/chemistry work, ann still does psychotherapy work. Sasha never did what he did to benefit financially, and from what i can gather neither did ann. They made enough from their research work to live comfortably, but resisted the temptation to patent/copyright all their work and sit on their asses and sick the lawyers on those after illegitimate profits like some do.

Bottom line, if you feel compassion for them, if they helped you in any way from their work, published, irl, whatever, help back. If you don't feel they deserve a donation fine, if you don't want to buy their books fine. The tax title on the thread is what made some people a bit pissy, and personally, i think paying/donating a % everytime i buy/dose one of his creations is bullshit. Thats basically voluntary royalties. I'm not into that kind of thing.

But i'll buy phikal and thikal again to gift to friends who are part of our community, and donate if i feel i have the ability to. Personally, i think for anyone to say they deserve this financial mess and no help is fucked up. You can say that about someone who created a few things in their lives, and then lived/squandered off the royalties/copyright fees to that while doing no further work to benefit the research community, but that is the polar opposite of what Sasha did, and the same goes for Ann and her work.

Donate because they did soo much/contributed soo much to their respective fields of research, without intent of monetary gain, and thus are in the situation they are in. Buy the books if you want too. To say they deserve what they are going through is cold, heartless, compassion-less, and fucked up. Period. They gave/did so much for no expected return. Pay it forward, or shut the fuck up and move along, no one is forcing you to support your elders (though we all should, not just the shulgins, not just those who contributed something to society in their lives, and not just financially) its common decency.

I'll hand it to Jesus on this one, though not all that hold the banner of Christianity take that virtue to practice, love your enemies. Show mercy on those who do not deserve it, deliver compassion without judgement of the character of who is receiving it. Theres always room to inject more of that kind of love into our daily lives, and theres no doubt the Shulgins need help, whether or not they "deserve" it. Thats not a judgement for me to make following my moral code. If you see suffering/a opportunity to help another person, and you can, whether or not they "deserve" it is not a judgement for you to make imho. At least thats what i took from Christ's message before we nailed his ass to a piece of wood to die. He wasn't the first to preach that and wont be the last, but all too often those are the kind of people who are culled from the population/silenced for whatever sick reason our society does so. If everyone took that attitude to heart, i guarantee all our lives/happiness would benefit exponentially.

(Stepping down from my soapbox)

 

[Solipsis]

Just forget about the whole tax via RC vendor idea, it is entirely unrealistic. There is no authority to do this and those vendors are interested in making money, not pricing themselves out of the market.

Please everybody just get to the topic of supporting the Shulgins on your own. I only just realized that this thread was set up with the idea of actual "taxes", I was thinking all along about coming up with a donation on your own on the basis of the logic that Shulgin is behind a lot of the synthesis. So it's just an excuse or reason to support him, which you just do or don't.

 

[EarthBounded]

My Idea is im sure any of you people with the big bucks would be able to meet Ann if you threw down a big donation, that would be priceless. She is pleading for help in return to finalize Sasha's last book which will save lives and help all doctors, med professionals etc...
Solispsis is right we need to support him, RC vendors will care less.

http://www.shulginresearch.org/home/

Follow Anns daily updates

I hope Musicians and artists will come together, Like Sphongle and grey im sure they are already helping but get the word out to the beautiful people with big bucks thats what they need.

 

[foolsgold]

i cant believe some people on a site where iv moved this to iv been accused of running some sort of scam with this lol

 

[crOOk]

I think you guys are going a bit far saying that he brought some sort of change to society, but this can be argued against when looking at how he promoted MDMA I guess. Nonetheless, the psychedelics market has reached a billion usd volume by now and it saddens me deeply to see that this man is left to rot away by all those people who've made good money off his invention. Donate people, especially you dealers out there who are making cash thanks to the guy.

 

[Morninggloryseed]

Tax? This is where good intentioned people go off the deep end into bad ideas.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

they are only being honest.

And fuck me for my honesty.

 

[Reverend Random]

Just forget about the whole tax via RC vendor idea, it is entirely unrealistic. There is no authority to do this and those vendors are interested in making money, not pricing themselves out of the market.

Please everybody just get to the topic of supporting the Shulgins on your own. I only just realized that this thread was set up with the idea of actual "taxes", I was thinking all along about coming up with a donation on your own on the basis of the logic that Shulgin is behind a lot of the synthesis. So it's just an excuse or reason to support him, which you just do or don't.

QFT. The same logic that applies to spending a few bucks on buying scale and helping yourself, might go for helping out Sasha. I think it's very smartass to think that if he hadn't synthesized these substances, someone else would have. That's coming from a situation in which these substances already exist. He did groundbreaking work and research and hasn't made a profit of it. If anything, that's cause for praise, not for disapproval. He is the sole reason everyone ever had access to these things, because other chemists could use his books to synth and sell these chemicals. None of that money every went to his pocket. That's why I donate regularly. I can miss some money, and if it helps someone I care about, all the better.

 

[daytryptr]

Someone needs to start a kickstarter for a shulgin fund to ensure they don't have to worry about the trivial affairs of funny money for the remainder of their lives, and just live as happily, healthily and comfortable as possible. Knock that constant worry off their shit list for good.

Lord knows they both deserve it, and theres plenty out there afforded such who have done less with their lives to benefit society as a whole without a profit motive driving their research.

Thus is the nature of the world i guess......

Makes me want to just dump my whole tax refund into their paypal donation link as a big fuck you to the feds.

 

[kidklmx]

Kickstarter would be hard, because you need to have a product to be on there.

IndieGoGo would be a better idea, though I thought I had read someone was working on that already

 

[Solipsis]

I think it's very smartass to think that if he hadn't synthesized these substances, someone else would have. That's coming from a situation in which these substances already exist. He did groundbreaking work and research and hasn't made a profit of it.

Haha also, that alternate reality psychedelics inventor could have run into the same kind of medical/financial trouble. With a hypothesis of another inventor, you need to take that into account, otherwise the logic degenerates into something similar to: 'Shulgin needs our support? OK but what if he didn't?'.

So if you do not want to help him because you actually try to argue or reason that he is not worth it, think again. Unless you are convinced that if necessary you could have come up with these hundreds of recipes yourself.

I think if you would use this excuse you are bound to find another one, I admit that I do not give money to the producer of all music that I listen to and I won't pretend that I am never cheap, but I do support what I believe in. I think this man has done something special and it is unjustifiable that huge amounts of cashish are flowing to vendors and labs while he is in dire need of some change in our pocket.

Smart business decisions are sometimes mutually exclusive with idealist decisions of integrity. And making money over something that is more beautiful as common good does not mean that you deserve it. I think Shulgin has earned our gratitude, and I would hope a little more than that.

 

[Thanatos]

Nichols developed a large amount of the compounds Shulgin is credited for. Everybody should keep that in mind; as well as the fact that he does real science with his compounds instead of passing them out like candy to his friends...