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The Shulgin Support Thread (feat. the tax idea)

Captain.Heroin said:
What's the point of elongating Shulgin's life if he is already old and in failing health?

It seems like you would be putting a man through more pain and suffering... and for what? Because you want more research chemicals to get high on?

Things in life happen for a reason. If he's running out of money for medical bills, then he didn't manage his money wisely enough because he is a fucking genius and could have capitalized on everything he had going for him if he had thought it out better.

Just my 2 cents.
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yes he is already old

but if he has money for adequate health care then he will go through less suffering before he gets to the dying part
 
imo tax is not the word to use, or go about it.

im sure the vast majority of people on this site would be happy to make a charitable donation, and to then forward and or advertise to help continue the revenue stream.

i idea needs a marketing tweak basically
 
Shulgin chose his life, and he knew damn well what financial position he would be in. The man is a genius, he should have been more aware of his financial issues and made sure to gave proper funds/insurance coverage.

I feel slightly bad, but I am against donating money to Shulgin. I would much rather donate to maps or someone like nichols, instead of a man that will be dead very soon. His wife has made 0 impact on my life, I have tens of thousands of dollars in medical bills to pay off already. I have regrets keeping the fruits of my labor to myself, if only just to stay out of crippling debt and being homeless.
 
Some of the posts in this thread are disgusting. Shulgin put the quest for knowledge and the desire to contribute valuable tools to society before his own greed. You are here because of that. He has changed your life through his selfless actions (incidentially, as have those who have given us all the open source software that this website most likely runs on).

Then people come out if the woodwork and say that he deserves to suffer because he wasn't more greedy when in his prime. Sometimes I fucking dispair of the 'American dream'.
 
^ couldn't agree more. Glad to see someone seeing things clearly and with empathy. Some of these posts are pretty shocking.
 
I knew this thread was going to turn into an argument. If you feel that Shulgin has influenced you in a positive way and you owe him the support, then make a donation. But there are a lot of people that don't see it that way, and they're not being disrespectful or anything, they are only being honest. Personally I don't feel that anyone in the psychedelic community "owes" him anything but respect. His and his wifes financial situation is unfortunate, but they really put themselves there. I bought copies of pihkal and tihkal, and if I was in a better financial position I'd make a donation because I do empathize. I've known many people who couldn't afford proper end of life care and had to suffer greatly in their last days. It's sad. But for anyone to imply that we all owe Sasha something I think is making this out to be more than it is.
 
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C.H said:
Things in life happen for a reason. If he's running out of money for medical bills, then he didn't manage his money wisely enough because he is a fucking genius and could have capitalized on everything he had going for him if he had thought it out better.
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That's pretty brutal. It's pretty rare that people go so far as to discourage private charity. Can we really fault Shulgin for failing to marketize his discoveries? It seems that it's more the American failure to provide sufficiently humane social services to its residents that is the problem here...

ebola
 
I can't believe some of these posts. :( Harsh barley...
Don't judge his entrepeneurship, be grateful ffs and amazed at the ideology and the beautiful freedom of it. He seems to feel that this legacy belongs to the world. Where would your experiments be without him? Show some mercy.

Direct donation seems like the way to go, I agree with that. But you can still call it a Shulgin tax from feeling moral inclination to, when you have ordered and sampled Sasha's alphabetamines whether it is now or in the past. Obviously, it is also great if you don't need such logically derived incentive. The Shulgin Index volume one cost me a fortune when it was released and I really don't have much to spend at the moment but I will still try to contribute some itty bits.

The "chipin" paypal link does not work anymore.
I just donated through here: http://www.shulginresearch.org/home/donate/
 
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So are you guys suggesting that paying for my surgeries, psychiatric care, and legal issues should be neglected just to make a dying man more comfortable? I have 0 regret, not donating my precious money that is already spent almost entirely on bills. Shulgin could have at least capitalized on 1 compound, patented it and made money from it through the federal government or the pharmaceutical industry.

If he mismanaged his money that is his, and his wifes fault. Being that they knew they weren't making any money thy should have seen this coming at least a decade ago. I owe nothing to Shulgin, novel psychedelics would have been synthed regardless of it being Shulgin or not. I do not even know this man, why should I contribute to extended his slow death? If he needs end of life care there is government assist readily available.
 
So are you guys suggesting that paying for my surgeries, psychiatric care, and legal issues should be neglected just to make a dying man more comfortable?
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No, smartass, they're suggesting you make a token donation to Shulgin if you have experienced any benefit from his research, if possible. Nobody is holding a gun to your head and saying 'pay the Shulgins or else'.
 
entheo said:
stuff
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You could be more tactful is all we mean, this man's creations mean so much to so many of us. You said someone else would have done it, but someone else didn't, Shulgin did, did it for the love of knowledge, for shared with us all, I don't think it's cool to treat his illness so casually.

Not everyone has money to give, and no one's saying to give what you can't afford, and if you don't feel like it that's fine too. But it's a little shocking to hear it said that the man hasn't merited our good will.

Anyway, I think the idea of folks voluntarily donating a whatever % tip when buying RCs is a nice one.
 
^ Sekio I refuse to be anything but cordial and respectful with you, you deserve no less. It just seemed that many posts concerning mine and others opinions are bein thrown to the side just because Shulgin happened to synth many of the compounds I've tasted. Although I love tripping, and know how positive it can be for many peoples lives I would rather donate to a credible university chemistry/pharmacology program in order to keep the research going. Or even to some like MS or Parkinson's and alzheimers research.

I'm sorry for being blunt, Sasha was a great chemist. I can't comment on him as a person, I know very little about his work outside of psychotropics. He may have been an egoist ass-hole with a great skill for synthing and experimenting with psychedelics.

Btw-you are awesome Sekio. I really wish I was on your intellectual level :)
Neverknowsbest- SOMEONE would have made these chems it was inevevitable. The federal government even invested in his research. And BTW the name of the thread is called the Shulgin Tax, that is implying a leveed fee on all compounds Shulgin had anything to do with.
 
It seems like those who contribute the most to society benefit the least. Unfortunately the inverse is also true. There was a time when people thought that widespread psychedelic use could cure this, the very worse of our social ills. Talk about a broken dream :-(
 
ebola? said:
That's pretty brutal. It's pretty rare that people go so far as to discourage private charity. Can we really fault Shulgin for failing to marketize his discoveries? It seems that it's more the American failure to provide sufficiently humane social services to its residents that is the problem here...

ebola
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My point was, "things happen for a reason".

I hope he can cover his medical bills and I hope that his last days aren't spent in pain or agony at all.
 
Sounds like money can be a sore subject... Leading to harshness.

I donated 10 or so a few months back. I like the idea of giving when you buy Chems... or whenever.... or not, because the guy has a point. These Chems may have been discovered by someone else.

I agree, a man with his intellect could have had more of an eye out for the future... But we use our intellects differently. I think looking at it like we owe the guy is wrong. Donate because it is good. Have compassion because its good.

I don't know how he benefitted me. How do I gauge that? Do I have an example of myself without drugs? Furthered knowledge yes. I guess I could say if it is benefit or harm, it might be benefit. Both 2C drugs I tried helped me to deal with things. It is just hard to gauge.

Still... When I am in the donating mood, he is in mind. As I'd Erowid. But honestly, there are so many charities. And honestly, I need money. I need to buy hookworms for 3.7 grand so that my immune system will stop attacked every God fucking damn thing that enters my body.

But I will probably give more. And I may give more elsewhere.
 
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People are only trying to help other people. If you feel uncomfortable about donating or you simply can't afford to, fine, but there's no need to post about it. Just stay out of the discussion! A mans comfort at the end of his life is surely not something anyone would deny...

Any private person who can afford to give something & feels the money is being well spent, can & should do so. If vendor folk read this, check you enormous profit margn, I'm sure the real money will come from entrepreneurs in this business & from folk who are interested in Psychedelics & other drugs and also happen to be well off. Us little people will be the ones buying Shulgins books so that we can educate ourselves & help out at the same time.

Buying one book makes very little difference. But if EVERYONE at BL bought a copy, that would probably finance the Shugin Institute fro a decade or two!

Anyway, please dont disparage other peoples efforts to help someone they don't even know, it's cruel & unnecessary. Do continue however to point out the legal pitfalls.
 
I bought PiHKAL and TiHKAL when they came out. I suggest that you all should as the fist half is in many ways better than the second half which is available online. At the time I wished from the bottom of my heart that I had access to the compounds he was writing about. 20 years later, my wish came true. Here's to the Internet!

I personally think that an opt-in tax is a great idea and will be donating to the Shulgins each time I buy a compound which he created or one that is derived from one of his creations.
 
the reason im taking this to other places is simply i cant afford to give any extra cash away so by posting links to where to donate at least i feel as if im helping a way so far one in a drugsforum/vendors is doing quite well with people taking up the fight to help him out
 
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