The sad state of PD

[buildersoftime]

I was actually just about to post that it seems to be a structural issue with BL itself since ADD became Nueroscience and Pharmacology. This could be fixed by adding an advanced subforum to PD or something like that.

Or a new ADD?

well it's a harm reduction forum, not a lofty discussion forum, so it makes sense that it's primary focus has ended up being giving advice to kids who are doing stupid things with drugs

The thing is, how long do those of us who know what we are talking about want to stick around having the same conversation over and over again:

"No it's not safe to take 5mg of 25c. Oh you did it anyway and ended up in hospital? Well I told you so".

Maybe PD should be split into HR and discussion sections?

 

[EliCash]

well it's a harm reduction forum, not a lofty discussion forum, so it makes sense that it's primary focus has ended up being giving advice to kids who are doing stupid things with drugs

Yeah, there is a certain value in preventing kids from going and chugging cough syrups with dangerous ingredients or taking way to much of something.

Or a new ADD?



The thing is, how long do those of us who know what we are talking about want to stick around having the same conversation over and over again:

"No it's not safe to take 5mg of 25c. Oh you did it anyway and ended up in hospital? Well I told you so".

Maybe PD should be split into HR and discussion sections?

The issue being brought up here seems to be the fact that there are 2 distinct types of posts in PD: Newbs looking for harm reduction advice and experienced users who would like to have intelligent conversations about psychedelics. Whether you fix that by splitting PD in two or creating a new ADD the fix would be to separate these two groups of posts into two subforums.

 

[Roger&Me]

Maybe one of the problems I'm frustrated by is the change in focus of ADD. Now it concentrates on neuroscience and pharmacology, there's nowhere to go for someone who isn't accomplished in this area but still wants intelligent discussion about serious topics.

its the same exact forum, just with a more accurate name. ADD was always meant to be a forum for people with formal training to discuss topics at a level beyond that which most lay people would understand. that was the whole point. the new name just makes that more clear.

intelligent lay discussion about serious topics is supposed to be the purpose of the focus forums, but there are just too many autists afoot to make that possible apparently.

 

[MagickalKat777]

If you split the forum, they'll just post in there.

I've been here since 2004 and it comes in waves. You'll have tranquility and then disaster strikes.

It isn't just in PD, its all over the forum.

The mods do not (and should not be expected to) have the time or the ability to police the forums 24/7, merging, moving, and locking posts anymore. Bluelight has grown exponentially and as a side effect, the amount of posts has increased.

If you were to compare statistics from back in 2004 to today, I doubt there would be a significantly different ratio of duplicate posts and general stupidity in relation to new users... Its just that there are a lot more new users signing up every day then there were back then so it was dispersed more evenly being offset by posts from older members. With few exceptions, greenlighters have never jumped in and contributed anything positive right off the bat, myself included.

Creating a sub-forum is just going to spark an elitist environment. When ADD was created, there was a whole flux of disorder over it because it was heavily moderated and people disagreed about what should and shouldn't be allowed there. I don't really think Bluelight could survive another nuclear fallout and division at this point nor do I think its necessary.

 

[coelophysis]

This is a pretty pretentious thread

 

[MagickalKat777]

This is a pretty pretentious thread

I agree.

I share the same sentiments about the psychedelics being the superior drug class thread.

PD has gone through its fair share of waves of elitist mentality though. Guess this is the next wave.

 

[bennyZA]

Yea, it may be pretensions but sometimes people need to say what other people don't want to hear. I'm glad someone finally posted this. I've been thinking this about most of the focus forums, it seems that they attract a lot non-bler's looking for quick answers for something they are about to do or just did. It seems that ED is mostly, "will I ever be normal again" threads and "how much should I take" threads. CD seems to be mostly about anxiety and constant debates over addiction and weed withdrawal and also "i took to much" threads. Anyone else think the focus forums needs some reform? It seems that OD is the best one, and even then...

 

[my3rdeye]

When I got back into LSD few years back I decided to check on a print I had just bought and decided to look around the internets. I was shocked to find horrible LSD information was the norm online. This really seemed to me to be the one place people were interested in the truth and open to it. Other forums even the moderators are clueless. The pot heads have 50 good sites giving out good pot info, we have 2 or 3 maybe.
It's not these kids faults they are ignorant, I do agree 99 percent of their questions were already answered and yes that's lazy. At least they get the right info here, they aren't going to get it from their dealers, parents, or school so it's up to us. It's a calling. I don't care if I have to tell 500 kids that bitter blotter wasn't LSD.
I am up for lofty discussions but ADD's science is beyond me.

 

[flat-line]

I think if you stay on any internet forum for very long you run into the same old questions. I always wondered if moderators have a file of response they can just copy paste.
When I was young 12-15 I would eat anything that can around, I would even go out of my way to find seeds, strange plants and strange chemicals eat them puke and get sick. So I have some sympathy.

I read quite a few threads in PD about 7yrs ago, it did seem much more educational. 2Cs and tryptamines were still rather new on the general market. So there was new discoveries and info coming out about some interesting substances. Their was also a good handful of pretty knowledgeable and interesting people posting.
But it still had its share of “should I take this?” “I just ate some acid. What will it do?

What I find sad and now days is the class of substances that are on here, its like vendors are just cranking out total trash that borders on poison. I just don't have any interest in discussing being a lab rat for the latest tweaked alphabet soup that sleazy vendors in asia are selling this week.

 

[angeleyes]

PD has gone through its fair share of waves of elitist mentality though. Guess this is the next wave.

Don't let it become what you've seen MagickalKat, I've only spent a few days time reading through archives back in '04-'06 but shieeet, you were here then so you were feeling this place real-time, all the older BLer's mold this place into what it is for when the new people come, like how you all molded this place when I came kind of thing.

Stop armageddon D-DAY Mkat, use the force like that is really all I can say, I believe in you bby


Benny I really like ED, when you mentioned this it kinda just fully clicked into place for me... that place was really where I linger to the annoyance of some but I know what these kids feel like when they post a comedown thread. The same questions are being asked a lot "what did I take/will I ever be normal again" you are right, but I've been in that exact same boat a few times of my life where I do worry "Shit, I've cooked it well and truly this time. This is the one time you fucked up. You had your brain and you screwed it this time", that, is, a scary feeling.

Some people's anxiety eases up so much more about a comedown when it is on their thread and the answers are tailored directly at them reassuring "everything is going to be alright".

I like supporting these kids just saying "everything is gonna be alright" because that is all it takes sometimes... just some random dude on the internet to type those magic 5 words and for some reason... everything is gonna be alright. It seriously is so amazing how just that can stop some people from doing some crazy shit or it will just help them go to sleep tonight and take the next day as it comes.

Its weird and there's strong arguments on both sides. All I can say is that I've been here for almost a year and this community is just incredible and that is what has made me stay here. Can't let this place die.


Why don't we just make more stimulating threads?


ARGUMENTS ON ALL SIDE OF THE FENCE!

 

[Sweet Jones]

When I got back into LSD few years back I decided to check on a print I had just bought and decided to look around the internets. I was shocked to find horrible LSD information was the norm online. This really seemed to me to be the one place people were interested in the truth and open to it. Other forums even the moderators are clueless. The pot heads have 50 good sites giving out good pot info, we have 2 or 3 maybe.
It's not these kids faults they are ignorant, I do agree 99 percent of their questions were already answered and yes that's lazy. At least they get the right info here, they aren't going to get it from their dealers, parents, or school so it's up to us. It's a calling. I don't care if I have to tell 500 kids that bitter blotter wasn't LSD.
I am up for lofty discussions but ADD's science is beyond me.

I dunno man, most of the threads i see here, there will be one or two good answers to plenty more crap ones, easy to distinguish them if you know what's up, otherwise it isn't, plus if the question is 'should i take this -dumb- amount', you only need one response saying 'yea that's fine' which is what the threadstarter wanted to hear and the only post he will remember from the thread

people that really want to be conscientious about their drug use will be more than able to wade through all the crap on the net and zero in on legit sources of information and figure out which posters to listen to, and the large portion of people who are only browsing bluelight/erowid/wherever for info that tells them they can do what they already want to do, will not be swayed by intelligent responses telling them their bad ideas are bad

also to the people like threadstarter who just want intelligent discussion... i know AusDD generally has a higher level of discourse than the focus forums, so do the other local subforums from what i can tell

 

[MagickalKat777]

I really wonder if in all of this, we all just need to think back to when we started here on Bluelight.

One of my first posts was a trip report that was reckless to say the least - http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/120799-AMT-Experienced-Not-what-I-bargained-for-at-all

Going back and reading my posts, I was a bit of a shithead back when I first joined, I can't even find an introduction post. The oldest post I can find on here is my response to a DiPT trip report that jumped right into assuming that you could permanently damage your hearing with it - http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/...t-I-expected?p=1613286&viewfull=1#post1613286

It seems like every time the scene has an evolution, there is always a big stir as one "generation" of drug users starts getting annoyed with the new "generation" coming in that don't know anything. The bottom line though is that Bluelight is here for harm reduction before anything else and that includes being tolerant of new users with bad forum etiquette.

Its going to get worse before it gets better. The labs in China are constantly playing with analogs looking for the next big thing.

 

[Clocktower]

The fact that this forum is mainly a place to tell 14 year old kids that it wouldn't be a good idea to drop acid while their parents nip down to the shops is a great shame.

Nothing personal, but it isn't a shame at all. That is exactly the purpose of this forum. I believe that those (potentially life-saving) discussions with kids about drug use are just as valuable as the discussions about cognition and philosophy.

 

[lovepsychadelics]

There are some who post asking if it's safe to dose x amount of substance and people reply no it's not. Then the individual ignores the warnings and ends up in hospital. People need to research these drugs and drug combinations before even trying to do multiple substances. Bluelight does not have all the answers and if a poster choses to ignore the suggestions of experienced users and ends up in emergency department with no idea how they got there after taking maybe a 1/10 fromtheir planned dose ie I wanted to do 1 gram of substance x but I did 900mg after reading the responses to my post the only person to blame is the individual who takes an irresposible dose despite seeking advice and then basically ignoring it... That is my beef.

 

[MagickalKat777]

^ I agree with that. I see it a lot.

Or you get people that are coming to ask questions after the fact (while they're high or they're coming up)

 

[Tommyboy]

The OD's often occur after the OP has already asked for advice but ignores it and OD's anyway!!! Darwinism at it's finest. The I got a crap load of stuff how should I take them should read: I got a crap load of stuff when should I call 911 before or after I eat it all? Darwin your a champion. Unless you have dumb ass parents they know like mine finding me with an ounce of chopped up weed and giving me a blow Tyson would cringe at and lifting me bodily some 3 meters from sitting. The rest are pretty standard dumb ass kids who believe whatever their mate/dealer tell them, after all those guys are the experts. LMAOWPIMP

There are some who post asking if it's safe to dose x amount of substance and people reply no it's not. Then the individual ignores the warnings and ends up in hospital. People need to research these drugs and drug combinations before even trying to do multiple substances. Bluelight does not have all the answers and if a poster choses to ignore the suggestions of experienced users and ends up in emergency department with no idea how they got there after taking maybe a 1/10 fromtheir planned dose ie I wanted to do 1 gram of substance x but I did 900mg after reading the responses to my post the only person to blame is the individual who takes an irresposible dose despite seeking advice and then basically ignoring it... That is my beef.

Or better yet, 'I got a crap load of stuff, please give me good advice so I can ignore it.

I really wonder if in all of this, we all just need to think back to when we started here on Bluelight.

One of my first posts was a trip report that was reckless to say the least - http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/120799-AMT-Experienced-Not-what-I-bargained-for-at-all

Going back and reading my posts, I was a bit of a shithead back when I first joined, I can't even find an introduction post. The oldest post I can find on here is my response to a DiPT trip report that jumped right into assuming that you could permanently damage your hearing with it - http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/...t-I-expected?p=1613286&viewfull=1#post1613286

It seems like every time the scene has an evolution, there is always a big stir as one "generation" of drug users starts getting annoyed with the new "generation" coming in that don't know anything. The bottom line though is that Bluelight is here for harm reduction before anything else and that includes being tolerant of new users with bad forum etiquette.

Its going to get worse before it gets better. The labs in China are constantly playing with analogs looking for the next big thing.

I think that this is mostly just a result of the increased popularity of bluelight. People searching for info on a drug are a lot more likely to come across this forum than they were years ago, and since a lot more people are stumbling across this forum there are a lot more beginners questions now. I agree that a lot of us weren't much better when we started out, and now there's just a lot more people like that posting on here.

I don't mean to sound cliche, but if we help reduce the harm done to at least one of the noobs asking questions like that here then we are doing our job. Ideally the percentage of people actually taking the advice would be higher, but let's all remember how we were at 14-15 when we began experimenting with drugs.

 

[buildersoftime]

ADD was always meant to be a forum for people with formal training to discuss topics at a level beyond that which most lay people would understand. that was the whole point. the new name just makes that more clear

I'm a formally trained sociologist. Drugs are my chosen research area. There are many academic disciplines which have something advanced to say about drugs and drugs use. Why focus in just two? If ADD were to have a more accurate name to reflect its academic focus, shouldn't it be "neuroscience, pharmacology, economics, criminology, anthropology, psychology, philosophy, botany, ecology and geography"?

PD has gone through its fair share of waves of elitist mentality though. Guess this is the next wave.

There's nothing elitist about wanting to discuss psychedelics and their sociopolitical implications. Just as there's nothing elitist about not putting PhD students and high schoolers in the same classroom.

I've been here for years under various usernames and I feel I've done my time giving stupid kids advice that I know they'd ignore. I've stuck with it because other people will see (and hopefully listen to) the advice when they come across the thread via Google but for every sensible post, there are three along the lines of "I used to eat whole sheets of white fluff back when I used to tour with grateful dead" and other fabricated nonsense. It's like I'm applying reason and logic to a lost cause.

What I find sad and now days is the class of substances that are on here, its like vendors are just cranking out total trash that borders on poison. I just don't have any interest in discussing being a lab rat for the latest tweaked alphabet soup that sleazy vendors in asia are selling this week.

I'll argue that the synthetic drug market has always been like this (STP in the 60's, Snowballs in the 90's, 2c-t7 in the 2000's etc). It's just that you have a particular issue with the latest batch of untested chemicals of arguable psychonautical value.

 

[Folley]

^ No, since this is a Harm Reduction forum we focus mainly on the users who actually take the drugs and how we can help then do so in a safer manner.

Price and legal discussion are not allowed anyhow. Growing questions would be best suited in CD or PD depending on which drugs they are talking about. There are side forums for Philosophy and Technology as well, and any geographical questions would be best suited in their appropriate Regional Subforum or perhaps Drug Culture. The current system works quite well IMO, it does what it's supposed to. If you feel a thread is redundant you are free to ignore it and of course the direction the forum takes is ENTIRELY dependent on the people who post there, so if you're not happy with things currently you should take initiative to create an environment more suited to regulars.

 

[buildersoftime]

^ which is what I'm attempting to do by starting this thread.

(I think you're doing economists a disservice by equating their discipline to "price discussion".)

 

[psood0nym]

Whatever direction you guys have in mind, don't go so far as to ask people to do what I asked in this thread: A Guide to Constructive Debate, A.K.A. How Not to Waste Your Time or Other's Online