The ultimate driving factor for man is not the fear of death. It’s the fear of life that plagues society and is the reason why so many people commit suicide. The fear of death does not stop them and it sounds like you’re saying that if that fear was alleviated then people would kill themselves more?? I highly disagree. I think they would have more acceptance towards life if they were able to understand death enough so they are not afraid of it. Because we fear what we don’t understand. And death for a lot of people is an eerie vacuum of uncertainty. If they were to understand the patterns of the universe and the nature of death then they would realize that acceptance towards life is just as important as acceptance towards death. And that suicide does not accomplish anything. Or at least not what people think it accomplishes.
What I meant to say is that the anxiety of death, is a
very strong subconsciouss primitive emotion. We have been creating gods and airplanes and bombs and wars and pornography; all of this is to
distract.
It came out sort of speeded. What I meant was sumply that of all our drives that keeps us alive, the lingering terror of the great inknown lies closest to most mens heart.
And yes, I do believe, if we'd somehow be able to actually be resonable, to realize that we're puppet's in a meaty-macabre charade, the punchline of a joke we don't get.
To avoid this, we use different techniques. Become our jobs. Isolate. Distract, subliminate -
everything to quiet the notion that one day you and everybody you know will be dust and everything we did here, was building castles made of sand as the tide came in.
Or so I see it. Fear is stronger than love. Pain feels more than pleasure. We mistake the
absence of pain or pleasure.
I'm a very devoted Zapffe-fan. He lays forth a theory regarding how we cope with this sensory overload.
Free to read here, just a few pages of excellent observations, really recommend it; you might get a better grasp than what I'm able to convey.
https://philosophynow.org/issues/45/The_Last_Messiah
People are in a downward spiral of thinking that they have to reject and condemn their circumstances so they create a double edged sword for themselves thinking that I either have to fear death to live or fear life to die.
Your mind is a doubleedged sword with no hilt; to swing it, one must grab it. I don't fear death - I fear pain.
I don't fear life, anymore. I used to. Then I stopped taking shit seriously. It's to absurd to kill yourself - like watching a gang-bang with the cast from Brownings classics
Freak, on just can't look away.
That’s the imbalance in the mainstream. Fear is propagated and solidified in society so that we are backed into a corner and we find ourselves staying in a certain situation for a longer time than we have to instead of progressing in the most beneficial way. Doing something out of fear will leave you empty in the future and cause you to look back on life feeling like you did something fake because you weren’t doing it out of your own authenticity and passion and free will. It is a good short term strategy but not the ultimate solution. If someone wants to use their free will to commit suicide and to let themselves be dragged down by this fear then that’s a prerogative that I can agree with because people have shitty lives beyond comprehension but however I feel that it is a misunderstanding amongst society and I think people have certain expectations of death that are not at all accurate or realistic which makes suicide a devastating choice that is based MOSTLY off of deterministic behavior patterns and inauthenticity.
See, you still connect suicide with fear. People kill themselves out of
boredom of life; because of it's futility. You can only watch paint dry for so long and manipulate yourself into thinking it's exhilirating.
Suicide is devastating to those left behind. And people who condemn suiciders or call them cowards (not meaning you) simply haven't had the circumstanes in their lifes aligned so they been forced to contemplate dying for real.
I'd say it's more authentic bailing on a ride you don't like than stay because of peer-pressure and other peoples fragile egos.
Wow we really are different people. Isolation is actually the problem in my opinion. You make the choice to compare yourself to people out of your own will and ultimately laying the stress upon yourself. I don’t know your life but it sounds like you’re talking about a short hiatus of an already active life. I’m talkin’ about full on antisocialism. Outcast syndrome. That is the real problem. And that’s one of the common factors in school shooters serial killers and people who commit suicide. And I’m not saying that suicide is as bad as those other two. But it just shows that avoiding life and social connection can make it a lot harder to free oneself from ones own psychological and emotional disturbances and negative outlooks and automatic responses of self destruction. It can also make it harder to not fall victim to the mind traps of the internet and tv which can perpetuate those behaviors. It is the fault of the society we live in as well as the fault of the individual.
Hahah, goddamn right we're are opposites. I love that, another perspective.
For me, it's not about making a choice or not; I don't care if you're Mr. Manhattan, we all compare ourselves to other peoole, in the darkness of our hearts or in the shameful light of day.
Or so I believe, and my observations has made me come to this conclusion aswell. I really don't give a shit about other peole's ambitions, their have or have nots.
I feel certain in myself in a way I've haven't before. And this has resultet after a long period of isolation, of contemplation - panic at times, bliss at others.
Isolation allows you to be comfortable with yourself. When you've accepted everything you are, first as good and bad traits, then simply traits - that's freedom brother.
You can't ever get to know yourself I think, but shutting out other inputs than your own thoughts I think is a good start.
Everybody has a secret room, an infite space in the minds, where we tuck away all that heinous shit we don't want anyone to see.
I'm not an outcast. Far from it. I have more friends than I'd like to have. When I isolate, I
isolate. Off the grid. Books, not computer. Pen and pad, not cellphone.
Would you say all those monks are potential school shooters? You don't think a man who meditates almost every waking hour benefits more than from what we do?
Our sin is gluttony and the meal is information. Co-dependence.
Of course, isolation that is
involuntarly, yes, definately homicidal potential there. But I wouldn't blame society. That's the easy way out man.
The problem is
us, every single one. Each of us are as guilty - we watched them peel the earth and carve it hollow? Do we give a shit?
No, we keep buying appliances that is the rot-cause of this mess, as patches on a gash within that will always bleed.
What exactly do you mean by the light barely conquering the dark? You can still acknowledge that you have specific unique abilities that can benefit your fellow human in a special way without putting pressure on yourself to do so. You are right that we are taught to have pressure and expectation and to rush things but that doesn’t negate the potential value of going in the direction of what you ultimately feel passionate about. If you feel real true passion about something then you will be able to do it without pressure and expectation on yourself. You don’t have to become famous to make the world a better place. If you have confidence in yourself and your true genuine interests then you will automatically propel yourself to your desired state.
We agree! I quit my job to finish my novel. Not because I expect dineros or even being published, but it is
the one thing I'd kill myself for, if I were to lose the ability to write.
If you do something for fame or cash, you don't do it for passion. I released a novel when I was 17. Got me nowhere, but here I am, third day awake trying to finnish this manuscript.
Of course, I'm not a savage. I'd be happy to help my fellow man if he aske me and I had the ability. Why wouldn't I?
Most people just do not have the self awareness to tap into that strong passion and confidence and as a result they feel like they don’t have anything significant to contribute. But the truth is that if everyone was aware of themselves and was in alignment with their true passion then we would all have the ability to become famous and the whole paradigm will just naturally break down. Idolization is definitely a factor in suicide as I have mentioned Kurt cobain. However that’s not what I was explaining when I mentioned that we all have talents and abilities that can contribute to society.
I talked to a few friends about this. I have always loved to write. During periods when I can't, I get extremely depressed. When I write, I feel, in lack of better words, invincible.
Out of six people, two had a burning passion. The others didn't care about.. anything, basically. They want kids and a house. Celebration-time...
Again what do you mean by intelligent? That is subjective. It has nothing to do with intelligence. It’s your focus that determines your outlook. If you choose to look behind the veil then that is what I call psychological/spiritual suicide. That in and of itself is another brainwashed indulgence. No one told you to look behind the veil but we are hardwired to be overly curious to the point where it’s self destructive. That is a form of suicide all on its own that is perpetuated by the idolization of people like Syd Barret and Peter green.
Intelligent is the wrong word, my mistake, again. I'm working on my english skills. There are many types of intelligence. Some intelligence you can measure; logical, mensa-tests etc.
What I mean is those who lacks any divine anchoring, any solid surface in a world that's constantly decomposing. I mean people who can view life and somehow detach themselves from it;
and when you do, it's a shitty fucking deal.
Looking "behind" the veil may not be an option, but something that is forced upon you. And that shit rusts into the dust of your bones.
Godless, in a ecological system that is a glorified slaughterhouse. Born to spew forth more of us wrecking havoc on everything.
I see a lot of anti-natal tendencies in younger generations - that encourages me. It is in my opinion worse to create a life, too rip something from the perfection of oblivion into a meat-suit.
Yes, killing yourself because your hero did it is not such a ... worthy cause, in my opinion.
And suicide is a splinter in everyone’s subconscious. Even the people who say they have never thought about it. It runs deeper than you might think.
Suicide for the most part is brain control by socialization of an already damaged and depressed society. It’s just passes on from generation to generation and is so common that it appears as if it is just something that we are naturally supposed to feel. It’s an illusion for the same reason that death itself is an illusion. There is no such thing as death. You continue on in different forms and the form you take on next is dependent on your previous form. The lessons you’ve learned and the knowledge you have gained. It doesn’t just disappear. Your body and self concept disappear but you use the information that is learned in this life to decide what endeavor you’re gonna take on next. If you commit suicide you are resisting that process and resisting your higher self from progressing and evolving and it will just choose another form that is similar or worse. Nobody said life is sanctified but it is important to accept its flaws and live through the ugliness the same way we accept the flaws of someone we love. If not then we will just repeat the same pattern.
Lots of things I agree here. But I would say that society is damaged beause it's built by damaged constructors; us. And there is no past, present or future, no.
The highlighted; I do believe we're in a loop, reliving and re-hashing the same shit over and over and over again. The flat-circle theory of time. I don't believe in any kind of univeral moral, so I can't buy into the fact of evolving, or being punished for in the next life for what you did here. You just rinse and repeat.
Nobody said so, but that's the consensus, isn't it? If not, why isn't murder legal if life isn't put in a piedestal.
And I agree; accepting yourself is accepting the world. All the ugly traits, all that shit your ashamed of. People should own it. Experiences are all we have - why not collect as many as possible, throughout the spectrum of so called "good" and "bad" deeds
(I'm not saying rape or murder or hurt anyone; well, some people deserves to get hurt). And violence is hard-wired in us. Put the most unlikely people in a situation where they haev to kill or be killed and give them a knife. I'm no longer suprised or astounded by humans; gang-rapes, genocides, the hurt we cause each other; we're vicious creatures who are barely able to whip ourself into submission.
I'm a misanthrope. I've never been anything else, never felt anything else towards our species. But that loathing is not transerred unto individuals; I'm not one to judge anyone, really.
Science provides a rather lifeless and meaningless interpretation of the reality we live in so it’s expected for you to feel threatened by it but has no real bearing to the vastness and complexity of life itself. Reality is not atoms and molecules randomly bouncing off eachother. That is a misinterpretation based on rigid thinking and narrow outlooks of people who want control and dominion over the fundamental processes and occurrences of nature. Why? Because of fear. I wouldn’t place too much stress on that aspect of it if I were you.
I'm not threatened by dying. I should be dead. Why do you think I quit my job, moved home at 33 to write? It sounds absurd. No normal person would drop everything.
I haven't payed a credit-card bill in years. Since coming to terms with who I am and what life is,
too me, everything is easier.
What I’m describing in that quote is the obsessive attachment we have to things that disconnect us from society more and more and drives us to the point of not feeling good enough which ultimately leads to suicide. We are addicted to pretense and feeling insecure and obsessing over what other people think of us so in that sense we do need an enlightenment or awakening of some kind whether that yields bad results or good ones.
I get it dude, totally. And I was once like you said, very insecure. I made a half-ass atttempt a few years ago before the big realization.
Having children or not having children is irrelevant. Babies are born everyday and the population is accelerating like the universe. Do you know how unrealistic it is to expect enough people to stop having babies to the point where we become extinct?? Thats a backwards nihilistic proposition that is not worth indulging in. You can have a child that just gets swept up by the negativity just like everyone else or you can have a child that eventually realizes his or herself and decides to make a difference in the world and lift people up. In the latter case it is not as much as an abusive infliction upon the child the way you are making it seem. It is dependent on the child to choose how they will react to any given situation. Even though that might sound cold or detached. A child has more power than you realize.
Man, everybody having a baby thinks their little pathwork of DNA will change the world.
Give me ONE reason to create a life that benefits the one who receives the gift? Hm? There are NONE.
And don't tell me I "deny someone the journey that's life"; that's a ludacris argument if there ever was one. That sounded rowdy, sorry an.
Every life is bodily aches, stress, mental deteriation. Every life is deprived of
something. ONce we get that, we want something else.
That which does not exist cannot suffer. But humans, we always suffer.
A child is but a sin of two people; we named our own species Homo Sapiens, "The Wise Ones". If we're so wise, and smart, how come we can't stop for a a second, contemplate
why we'd want more misery on the planet, and use a rubber or snipp the tubes? Again, a quite solid proof in my book we're all living in some collective psychosis.
The reason why the environment is messed up is because there are too many people who don’t have knowledge of themselves and the greater universe. They think that everything is scientific and that we just have to wait for scientific solutions. But the whole human consciousness is in suicide mode if you wanna know the truth. If you think of society as one person that wants to kill themselves you have already solved the problem. It’s a disconnection among the people and a lack of awareness towards the unified field that they share on a deeper level. That’s why isolation is not the solution. It perpetuates it. Making it easier to sink into the trappings of media brainwashing and unresolved emotional traumas that separate us more from eachother and gives us false realities and expectations. We disregard environmental problems because deep down we want to destroy ourselves. And we have to realize that as an interconnected community before there is any change to that. If change is what you really want.
I agree with that. Anger and disappointment is just more stress upon them which will make them want to die more. And it just shows fear and selfishness on the person who’s getting mad.
However I don’t think that it’s out of line to get mad at the fact that there are so many people who are misunderstood about suicide and what that entails and they are just going off the expectations and the beliefs that society and media gives to them. It has run rampant for generations and will increasingly get worse if we don’t realize ourselves and our true nature.
The reason the enviroment is messed is simple; there's nothing more destructive to nature than raising another human (yesyes, atomic-bombs and so on).
We claim to care about the enviroment, yet our homes are cluttered with the things that destroys it. Material possessions. God, all these things.
We come from tribes raging between 50-150 indivuduals. Now we live 12 million people in some citites like chimps at the zoo in our apartments.
Totally agree with the last suicide-part. Your opinions makes me rethink a few things, but my core values probably won't, ever again.
I did enjoy hearing what you said. It's cool hearing the otherside; how we can be so different in our formulations and ideas, though I think we both want the same thing, really.
Being happy and making others happy.
I'td be really cool to hear you opinion on that Last Messiah Essay. I think you'd like it.
@ovenbakedskittles , you're a pleasure talking to. I can get riled up typing like this, rip me a new one if I offended you; I must certainly wasn't trying to.