The philosophy of wanting to die

[Jabberwocky]

I don't think there's anything to do here either. I believe we existed before we were born but that doesn't make me a spiritual person. I just look at it like a cycle of life. Some people get put here and others don't. I've had visions and interactions with people who live in other dimensions, one is like what people describe as Heaven and there's also one that I'd describe as the Land of the Dead which is a very peaceful place full of people who were born in that realm. Just these handful of experiences have made my life more interesting if not escapist, but overall I think there's no reason for being here. I just hope we can figure out what all this means in the future

Someone i trust who knew i couldnt take this shit anymore said some scary crap to me... She said that if i took my life, i would keep coming back worse everytime, as in, id be missing an arm, or id be blind, etc... If thats not cruel, maybe nothing is. If reencarnation is true, what now?
According to a certain group of people who might be a bit obsessed with death, the only way to escape this life is to lose the desire to die... Welp... I too have met people from, if not other dimensions, just past lives, and i was not the only one who thought so at the time, still, i am still not ok with any of that. Its beyond me right now.
I keep hearing songs from the land of the dead.

 

[Shady's Fox]

ya it sucks, you know I was once in a place like this as many might think they don't end up, but you have to evolve lil man and fuck, it sucks. Say sucks because as you grow up from that incel mentality you see that everything around you becomes a variation and how you handle it depends but depends entirely on you, that's where you see what you're made out of.

 

[TripSitterNZ]

i can say reincarnation does not exist neither does the soul there is only one cosnciouneness. There is no terror to the afterlife. The whole reincarnation thing is a idea from ancient india to control people. I debunked it by smoking 5meo dmt.

 

[Jabberwocky]

i can say reincarnation does not exist neither does the soul there is only one cosnciouneness. There is no terror to the afterlife. The whole reincarnation thing is a idea from ancient india to control people. I debunked it by smoking 5meo dmt.

Nice to hear. But have you never seen or felt any connection to another time or place, or do you regard that as an illusion? Dont judge me for the following q but were you born between november 22 thru december 23?
Also, i dont think its a philosophy wanting to die, but a reaction of our survival instinct which makes sure we give what we need to ourselves, and being on this unnatural environment, without having experienced real life if you know what i mean, it makes us freak out and try to escape before it slowly pollutes and kills us. Thats what ive tasted anyway.

 

[Jabberwocky]

im a scorpio born in oct. I have been to many places beyond time and space and also have existed in multiple times at once and have also seen past lives. But those past lives i see everybody is all the one consciounenss we are all god deep down so we dont reincarnate because we are all one with everything that exists has ever existed and will exist in the future. Our true source and nature is divine bliss and love we are playing the game of life for the reason of been lonely and bored all alone as a infinite god. so god split it into pieces and created this universe and countless others. Its game where no one loses because at the end of it you return and remember your true divine self.

Knowing this on a deeper level allows you to free yourself of terror because everything is going to be alright at the end. Our wanting to die is simply a wanting to return to our source to replenish in the endless infinite love and bliss the sea of consciousness that is beyond time and space.

In the house of Scorpio sits the shadow warrior, chained and surrounded by many veils of maya, armed to the teeth, and afraid of his own lethality, for in the end the deadliest weapon is one with himself, and once he dares to reach for it and break the veil, what you mentioned happens, and i like to believe that we get to experience that when we have a bit of the next sign on us, the sign that shoots out of the void and into the firmament, to shine in the dark forever. Thats why i supected you were some kind of Sagittarius.

 

[Foreigner]

I wrote and deleted my OP because I felt ashamed or something. But I will re-write something else here. I am suicidal right now, heavily. Considering medication shortly. Working with ketamine as of today, but I don't hold out much hope only because the trauma is ongoing.

I don't think suicide is a sane response to reality. I think it is a sane response to trauma that is deep and unresolved. And a lot of us are traumatized, deeply. I could go into all the different ways but those who know understand.

I cannot really find a moment's peace in this life, it seems. Every time I come close to some kind of fulfillment, it blows up in my face. I'm not flawed, life is just temporal for me. It's my fate, or my stars, or whatever you want to call it, to have this cursed existence where the moment I come close to happiness the trap door opens. It really feels that way. Even my friends are starting to wonder. Why does it keep going wrong when things start looking so good?

I've worked with lineage paths. They talk about how I'm basically a shaman (for lack of a better word). A natural mystic. I'm made to suffer so that I stay awake and never forget. But... I'm also a human being, and these narratives don't serve me. I wanted to be touched, to be held, to feel pleasure, to have a basic, stupid human life of consistency, stability and some normalcy.

It doesn't seem to matter how strong a person appears, or what their capacities are, or anything. Human beings are fragile creatures. Our psyches can only take so much before bad things start to happen inside, things that may or may not ever be repaired. I actually feel brain damaged from the amount of trauma I've suffered.

I don't agree that suicide is necessarily intelligent, or that there's no point in life because it's all just the divine. We are individuations of the divine and we are meant to shine as we are. Resonance with divinity is our birth right, and dissonance tells us that we're not in alignment. My problem isn't that I can't realize this, it's that the dissonance is so loud sometimes.

I'm really feeling not meant for this world lately. Everyone I know treats me as some holy man prophet when really I'm just some guy. I don't see myself as they see me. I walk to the cliffs by the ocean and just stare down into the water, wondering what it would be like to jump, to be in the freezing water and to have my body bashed against the rocks. It would suck but it would be over pretty quick. I've done polar bear swims before and I would not last 5 minutes in that. Plus the cliffs are so beautiful covered in snow, and the big ocean waves so white and frothy... then you have the moon and the stars there. It seems like a decent place to die.

I'm obviously not that holy if I can sink to the depths I'm currently in.

 

[finitelifeform]

I wrote and deleted my OP because I felt ashamed or something. But I will re-write something else here. I am suicidal right now, heavily. Considering medication shortly. Working with ketamine as of today, but I don't hold out much hope only because the trauma is ongoing.

I don't think suicide is a sane response to reality. I think it is a sane response to trauma that is deep and unresolved. And a lot of us are traumatized, deeply. I could go into all the different ways but those who know understand.

I cannot really find a moment's peace in this life, it seems. Every time I come close to some kind of fulfillment, it blows up in my face. I'm not flawed, life is just temporal for me. It's my fate, or my stars, or whatever you want to call it, to have this cursed existence where the moment I come close to happiness the trap door opens. It really feels that way. Even my friends are starting to wonder. Why does it keep going wrong when things start looking so good?

I've worked with lineage paths. They talk about how I'm basically a shaman (for lack of a better word). A natural mystic. I'm made to suffer so that I stay awake and never forget. But... I'm also a human being, and these narratives don't serve me. I wanted to be touched, to be held, to feel pleasure, to have a basic, stupid human life of consistency, stability and some normalcy.

It doesn't seem to matter how strong a person appears, or what their capacities are, or anything. Human beings are fragile creatures. Our psyches can only take so much before bad things start to happen inside, things that may or may not ever be repaired. I actually feel brain damaged from the amount of trauma I've suffered.

I don't agree that suicide is necessarily intelligent, or that there's no point in life because it's all just the divine. We are individuations of the divine and we are meant to shine as we are. Resonance with divinity is our birth right, and dissonance tells us that we're not in alignment. My problem isn't that I can't realize this, it's that the dissonance is so loud sometimes.

I'm really feeling not meant for this world lately. Everyone I know treats me as some holy man prophet when really I'm just some guy. I don't see myself as they see me. I walk to the cliffs by the ocean and just stare down into the water, wondering what it would be like to jump, to be in the freezing water and to have my body bashed against the rocks. It would suck but it would be over pretty quick. I've done polar bear swims before and I would not last 5 minutes in that. Plus the cliffs are so beautiful covered in snow, and the big ocean waves so white and frothy... then you have the moon and the stars there. It seems like a decent place to die.

I'm obviously not that holy if I can sink to the depths I'm currently in.

For what it's worth, your post is full of wisdom and is very inspirational. It's clear from your post that you have ventured lots in this lifetime and regardless of whatever outcome you're expecting (is there even such a thing as being able to define an outcome?) the potential and the growth you have experienced is abundant, just from your post alone. What you cannot see is how you come across to others and the way you come across in your post is someone who doesn't recognize his own innate self worth and luminance. It's like the lion who thinks himself a sheep without realizing the world sees him as a lion. Obviously I cannot even begin to understand your personal situation and I'm not for a second laying it on like I know something 'deep' about why you are at the point you are at today, that would be some bulls*it. Just your post, it's kinda reflective of someone who struggles to see what is evidently present in who you are and what you are, and like I said, that's just from your post alone which means there's something quite powerful there.

 

[Foreigner]

For what it's worth, your post is full of wisdom and is very inspirational. It's clear from your post that you have ventured lots in this lifetime and regardless of whatever outcome you're expecting (is there even such a thing as being able to define an outcome?) the potential and the growth you have experienced is abundant, just from your post alone. What you cannot see is how you come across to others and the way you come across in your post is someone who doesn't recognize his own innate self worth and luminance. It's like the lion who thinks himself a sheep without realizing the world sees him as a lion. Obviously I cannot even begin to understand your personal situation and I'm not for a second laying it on like I know something 'deep' about why you are at the point you are at today, that would be some bulls*it. Just your post, it's kinda reflective of someone who struggles to see what is evidently present in who you are and what you are, and like I said, that's just from your post alone which means there's something quite powerful there.

Thank you for this powerful reply.

I'm living a lie right now, essentially. I'm living somewhere where the most special, gifted, powerful parts of myself remain hidden because the people I'm around and the culture I'm living in are so banal. The things that matter to me, I never get to talk about. My whole way of seeing the world, is kept to myself. It isn't expressed. When it is, people are so blinded by ignorance and arrogance that they actually question my sanity. Stupid people tend to think that smart people are stupid, because they are too stupid to know what they are looking at. Pearls before swine, so I just keep my mouth shut.

One eyed man in the kingdom of the blind, right here. Unlike other stoics, I get super lonely, and then when I get lonely I feel lost to the world and pointless. I find humans so complicated to connect to, but I try anyway.

The cyclical generation and degeneration of my life is so painful. Everyone has it, but the rise and fall are so violent. I can't reconcile it anymore. I can't trust the good times because there's always a trap door, and the bad times are so intensely bad that I become numb. So effectively, they nullify one another and nothing means anything. Hence death.

 

[ovenbakedskittles]

"Banish the fear of death from men's hearts and they wouldn't live a day. Who would want this nightmare but for fear of the next?"

Do you agree with this? If you'd remove the fear of death, just for a day, I'm sure the bodies would stack unto heaven all over.
It might be confirmation-bias, but as I read more and more psychology, I'm certain this drive, the prospect of death, knowing we will die one die, drives all our other actions and thoughts.

The ultimate driving factor for man is not the fear of death. It’s the fear of life that plagues society and is the reason why so many people commit suicide. The fear of death does not stop them and it sounds like you’re saying that if that fear was alleviated then people would kill themselves more?? I highly disagree. I think they would have more acceptance towards life if they were able to understand death enough so they are not afraid of it. Because we fear what we don’t understand. And death for a lot of people is an eerie vacuum of uncertainty. If they were to understand the patterns of the universe and the nature of death then they would realize that acceptance towards life is just as important as acceptance towards death. And that suicide does not accomplish anything. Or at least not what people think it accomplishes.

People are in a downward spiral of thinking that they have to reject and condemn their circumstances so they create a double edged sword for themselves thinking that I either have to fear death to live or fear life to die. That’s the imbalance in the mainstream. Fear is propagated and solidified in society so that we are backed into a corner and we find ourselves staying in a certain situation for a longer time than we have to instead of progressing in the most beneficial way. Doing something out of fear will leave you empty in the future and cause you to look back on life feeling like you did something fake because you weren’t doing it out of your own authenticity and passion and free will. It is a good short term strategy but not the ultimate solution. If someone wants to use their free will to commit suicide and to let themselves be dragged down by this fear then that’s a prerogative that I can agree with because people have shitty lives beyond comprehension but however I feel that it is a misunderstanding amongst society and I think people have certain expectations of death that are not at all accurate or realistic which makes suicide a devastating choice that is based MOSTLY off of deterministic behavior patterns and inauthenticity.

Isolation, I think, is a big part of the solution.
I've never felt more sane than when I had no one around to compare myself with; never have I felt such relief from other negative emotions as when I've spent periods alone (up to two months without a single conversation; lovely).
Isolation also deals with the ego; it strips it apart, to pieces, fragments. What is ego but our insercurities on how we perceive ourselves and others do?
The ego demands an audience. Isolation offers none.

I agree with what you say about the ego, but replace "ego" with "death-anxiety", which results in cosmic panic, and if you get past that, futilitiy.

Wow we really are different people. Isolation is actually the problem in my opinion. You make the choice to compare yourself to people out of your own will and ultimately laying the stress upon yourself. I don’t know your life but it sounds like you’re talking about a short hiatus of an already active life. I’m talkin’ about full on antisocialism. Outcast syndrome. That is the real problem. And that’s one of the common factors in school shooters serial killers and people who commit suicide. And I’m not saying that suicide is as bad as those other two. But it just shows that avoiding life and social connection can make it a lot harder to free oneself from ones own psychological and emotional disturbances and negative outlooks and automatic responses of self destruction. It can also make it harder to not fall victim to the mind traps of the internet and tv which can perpetuate those behaviors. It is the fault of the society we live in as well as the fault of the individual.

I think this is what drives people into depression, anxiety, and suicide; the fact that we put such weight on talents, abilities, legacy.
Personally, I think the meaning of life has nothing to do with sharing talents or abilities. It's simply about finding a path where the light barely conquers the dark, like hummingbirds in cole-mines.
Still, society tells us to rush, to hurry; we're being overflooded by expectations, by the coma that's fame, the new gods who aren't metaphysichal but plastic, golden, metallic.

What exactly do you mean by the light barely conquering the dark? You can still acknowledge that you have specific unique abilities that can benefit your fellow human in a special way without putting pressure on yourself to do so. You are right that we are taught to have pressure and expectation and to rush things but that doesn’t negate the potential value of going in the direction of what you ultimately feel passionate about. If you feel real true passion about something then you will be able to do it without pressure and expectation on yourself. You don’t have to become famous to make the world a better place. If you have confidence in yourself and your true genuine interests then you will automatically propel yourself to your desired state. Most people just do not have the self awareness to tap into that strong passion and confidence and as a result they feel like they don’t have anything significant to contribute. But the truth is that if everyone was aware of themselves and was in alignment with their true passion then we would all have the ability to become famous and the whole paradigm will just naturally break down. Idolization is definitely a factor in suicide as I have mentioned Kurt cobain. However that’s not what I was explaining when I mentioned that we all have talents and abilities that can contribute to society.

I do honestly believe that in any intelligent person (I'm not talking IQ or EQ or some shit here), suicide is a constant splinter in the back of their minds.
It's a failing of defense-mechanism against the world; you're no longer able to paint rainbows over tarpits, polish shit into gold.
You've looked behind the veil, and you get stuck, because nothing can offer up any arguments against that realization.

Again what do you mean by intelligent? That is subjective. It has nothing to do with intelligence. It’s your focus that determines your outlook. If you choose to look behind the veil then that is what I call psychological/spiritual suicide. That in and of itself is another brainwashed indulgence. No one told you to look behind the veil but we are hardwired to be overly curious to the point where it’s self destructive. That is a form of suicide all on its own that is perpetuated by the idolization of people like Syd Barret and Peter green.

And suicide is a splinter in everyone’s subconscious. Even the people who say they have never thought about it. It runs deeper than you might think.

You mean suicide is a mind game, or a form of mind control? Why is it an illusion? What makes life so sanctified?

Suicide for the most part is brain control by socialization of an already damaged and depressed society. It’s just passes on from generation to generation and is so common that it appears as if it is just something that we are naturally supposed to feel. It’s an illusion for the same reason that death itself is an illusion. There is no such thing as death. You continue on in different forms and the form you take on next is dependent on your previous form. The lessons you’ve learned and the knowledge you have gained. It doesn’t just disappear. Your body and self concept disappear but you use the information that is learned in this life to decide what endeavor you’re gonna take on next. If you commit suicide you are resisting that process and resisting your higher self from progressing and evolving and it will just choose another form that is similar or worse. Nobody said life is sanctified but it is important to accept its flaws and live through the ugliness the same way we accept the flaws of someone we love. If not then we will just repeat the same pattern.

I think it all depends on your whole life-view. I have no certain theories about life and meaning, but the big bounce, the eternal return or recurrence, which is so far partly confirmed by the latest Planck-data and other studies, suggests there's a curvature in the universe, which would indicate an enclosed universe. Expanding, contracting, expanding, contracting -forever.
That is my nightmare, and that is unfortunately what my mind believes in, whether I like it or not. I'd love to be religious; to be idealistic. But, like I said, suicide is not a trait of mine. I'm far to narcissitic.

Science provides a rather lifeless and meaningless interpretation of the reality we live in so it’s expected for you to feel threatened by it but has no real bearing to the vastness and complexity of life itself. Reality is not atoms and molecules randomly bouncing off eachother. That is a misinterpretation based on rigid thinking and narrow outlooks of people who want control and dominion over the fundamental processes and occurrences of nature. Why? Because of fear. I wouldn’t place too much stress on that aspect of it if I were you.

I thinks what you're describing is a sort enlightenment, which is not always a happy ending. More and more young adults deciedes not to have kids; anyone who blames clearly hasn't been paying attention to the world in the past 20 years.
Jeez, I've got a niece and fuck, what are we handing her? We've wrecked this blue dot of life. One species butt-fucked an entire echosystem. There will always be copycat-suicides.
When the book "The Sorrows of Young Werther (Die Leiden des jungen Werthers)" by Goethe was released, authorities feared copycat-suicides.

People who are truly committed to saving the enviroment should have one goal and one goal only; the extinction of man.
Not as in murder; but as in STOP HAVING FUCKING BABIES.

What I’m describing in that quote is the obsessive attachment we have to things that disconnect us from society more and more and drives us to the point of not feeling good enough which ultimately leads to suicide. We are addicted to pretense and feeling insecure and obsessing over what other people think of us so in that sense we do need an enlightenment or awakening of some kind whether that yields bad results or good ones.

Having children or not having children is irrelevant. Babies are born everyday and the population is accelerating like the universe. Do you know how unrealistic it is to expect enough people to stop having babies to the point where we become extinct?? Thats a backwards nihilistic proposition that is not worth indulging in. You can have a child that just gets swept up by the negativity just like everyone else or you can have a child that eventually realizes his or herself and decides to make a difference in the world and lift people up. In the latter case it is not as much as an abusive infliction upon the child the way you are making it seem. It is dependent on the child to choose how they will react to any given situation. Even though that might sound cold or detached. A child has more power than you realize.

The reason why the environment is messed up is because there are too many people who don’t have knowledge of themselves and the greater universe. They think that everything is scientific and that we just have to wait for scientific solutions. But the whole human consciousness is in suicide mode if you wanna know the truth. If you think of society as one person that wants to kill themselves you have already solved the problem. It’s a disconnection among the people and a lack of awareness towards the unified field that they share on a deeper level. That’s why isolation is not the solution. It perpetuates it. Making it easier to sink into the trappings of media brainwashing and unresolved emotional traumas that separate us more from eachother and gives us false realities and expectations. We disregard environmental problems because deep down we want to destroy ourselves. And we have to realize that as an interconnected community before there is any change to that. If change is what you really want.

But, yeah, suicide and death is tricky. I can't say much, if anything, with certain, but this I believe through my entire being, from the hair on my arms to the dust in my bones;
people who get mad or disappointed or subbornly tries to talk someone out of suicide, is an egotistical ****.

I agree with that. Anger and disappointment is just more stress upon them which will make them want to die more. And it just shows fear and selfishness on the person who’s getting mad.

However I don’t think that it’s out of line to get mad at the fact that there are so many people who are misunderstood about suicide and what that entails and they are just going off the expectations and the beliefs that society and media gives to them. It has run rampant for generations and will increasingly get worse if we don’t realize ourselves and our true nature.

 

[finitelifeform]

Thank you for this powerful reply.

I'm living a lie right now, essentially. I'm living somewhere where the most special, gifted, powerful parts of myself remain hidden because the people I'm around and the culture I'm living in are so banal. The things that matter to me, I never get to talk about. My whole way of seeing the world, is kept to myself. It isn't expressed. When it is, people are so blinded by ignorance and arrogance that they actually question my sanity. Stupid people tend to think that smart people are stupid, because they are too stupid to know what they are looking at. Pearls before swine, so I just keep my mouth shut.

One eyed man in the kingdom of the blind, right here. Unlike other stoics, I get super lonely, and then when I get lonely I feel lost to the world and pointless. I find humans so complicated to connect to, but I try anyway.

The cyclical generation and degeneration of my life is so painful. Everyone has it, but the rise and fall are so violent. I can't reconcile it anymore. I can't trust the good times because there's always a trap door, and the bad times are so intensely bad that I become numb. So effectively, they nullify one another and nothing means anything. Hence death.

Like a feeling of not being able to really be yourself because your environment doesn't feel compatible and the culture denies any opportunity to break any chains, potentially chains that hold people back and do not allow them to fully realize their being and express themselves freely. That has to be probably one of the most destructive forces around and what is worse is it happens on such a deep level that it traumatizes people and naturally so, seeing as the entire being of an individual is under threat and where there are no threats there are chains that hold people down. Those who see beyond the invisible wall holding people back are often the 'crazy' ones because they see what others cannot - freedom beyond the trap. The trap could be age old cultural beliefs, it could be hysteria, superstition, groupthink, dogma/stigma, dysfunctional patterns of behaviour etc.
These then become chains, even when the person wearing them (usually the one calling you 'crazy') professes how great their life is and how much of a 'real' person they are and how you must be just like them and just like everybody else. I always say it's always the ones who ramble on about being real people that are often the most deluded and completely lost in life because they think their lives are explained by these infantile, superficial and completely meaningless constructs and without these they completely disintegrate, until of course they have a life changing experience that changes their perspective and makes them see that much of their life is actually a lie.

I come from a rural area in the UK. Some of these areas in the rural north haven't changed much since before the industrial revolution. Many people are very primitive and many are extremely unstable and experience social issues on a daily basis. It can be felt in the culture as trauma, pain, suffering, isolation, abandonment. There is a distinct lack of education surrounding the understanding of life, of self, others, integration into society, broadening awareness beyond their isolated rural culture etc. Many people simply assume the few miles in all directions they call home is actually the entire world. In that way it's a lot like how people saw themselves and the world in the medieval era. I get on the bus and people are endlessly watching the door to see whether a new threat will appear to eradicate them, you watch most people are their nerves are shot; twitching, showing evident signs of discomfort and incongruence like something within them is not balanced. All the while, it's just a bus ride to the next town! Because their lives consist of nothing they are endlessly overthinking, overanalyzing and because trauma is at the seat of the culture and is unprocessed and unintegrated (because the older generations had no awareness and/or education on how to deal with it) they are constantly in fight or flight mode always looking for a threat. Of course, there is no threat. The threat however IS the culture, just people don't recognize when what they experience is a product of the culture they live in or whether it's actually themselves. Culture has a powerful effect on peoples lives and yet many completely forget culture is at play when they are experiencing life. When having a conversation local people quickly go into themselves when the conversation is not superficial, they become anxious, paranoid even, unable to process anything that requires them to think and act differently to what they have been used to all their life. People lack all kinds of stimulation and therefore they are deprived and always searching but many never find what they are seeking and they simply assume a role that is bestowed upon them by the culture. Alas, the suffering continues. In the meantime the defense mechanisms jump into action and now we have sociopathy, narcissism, depression, anxiety, PTSD, OCD, schizophrenia and psychotic symptoms, hysteria, psychogenic illnesses, antisocial behaviour. At a social level we have disconnection, disunity, violence, segregation, isolation, abandonment etc.

That sh*t affects you. It affects me everytime I come back, if my time here is prolonged and I began to become acculturated. Before long I'm feeling the misery and the emptiness of the culture and I understand why people dress so plain, talk the same, act the same, feel the same and it's because, as you mentioned in your post, they do not see what lies beneath the illusion, the veil of reality that makes up our world. They simply assume that's how life is and yet their very behaviour proves deep down they know things aren't right because how they behave reflects the very issues with the culture and then as a result with themselves as a product of that culture.

Having said all that, you're still there, right? You are NOT the culture. You exist beyond that. You still exist. Everything that is great about you still exists right now. It's not going anywhere. And if it does, it can always be regained. We are not primitive CD-R's, we are lightning fast SSDs capable of redefining what can be written and what is written every second of our lives. I've lost myself many times but what I've found out is I was always right there even when I was lost. I thought things had changed but all that changed is my thinking about who I was. Who I was and who I am is consistent, it is what always will be there. The culture is the illusion, albeit persistent. Granted, culture is powerful but as human beings we can transcend culture. Culture is a product of our conscious ability to define our reality and then share these realities with others in customs, values, belief systems etc. Therefore we are the masters of culture and do not need to be victims of them. How many are masters of culture? How many are victims? That is my question. When you understand the game, you no longer have to be attached to it in the same way. You know the game is a game and so you can choose whether to play it. When the game stops being your de facto reality it becomes something that happens with your conscious awareness and therefore you can choose how to respond to it.

You can always choose. Always. There is always something you can do, something you think to change your mind. Otherwise you are simply determined by everything external to you and so you concede any potential you have to utilize your own innate resources to transform your situation. And when it comes to culture, understanding that is doesn't have to define you unless you choose to let it, unconsiously or otherwise, can liberate you. And if it becomes a battle, that's when it's potentially time to change your environment. It shouldn't become a battle though. You have nothing to prove and you can nothing by trying to 'beat' the culture other than potentially moving yourself further away from what aligns you with how you really are, and that is detrimental, from my experience anyway. Sometimes you just have to let go of that sh*t and be somewhere else, somewhere better. There is a time to fight and a time to simply walk away and know there is better out there for you. That's why I always move to a city that's not lightyears from my hometown. Even though it's only an hour or two away on a bus it feels like a world apart in terms of the environment. I practically change within a few weeks and I'm better in all aspects of my life; mental, emotional, spiritual, physical etc.

Much of this story I believe is to do with personal responsibility and the awareness of our ability to choose how we live our lives and how cultivate and maintain our realities.
I spent the best part of several decades living with what appears to be something similiar to your situation. Again and like mentioned above, I'm not trying to assume I know your personal story at all. I'm obviously relating to what you said based on how it appears to be similiar to my own experiences and I could be wrong and if I am then I apologize.

Just remember the potential you have. It's a great gift to have and you must find a way to realize it and transform it into something that benefits others around you and yourself.
And don't apologize for being you who you are is special, unique and should be valued

 

[Gormur]

@finitelifeform Cool post, dude. I definitely agree with this. However, I think some of the people we might call crazy (I dislike this word) are actually ahead of the curve, so to speak; like people who read into numbers or inventors. Who knows? - Some may even be modern-day seers/seeresses, if you believe in that sort of thing. I don't actually believe in the latter although I have some uncanny ability to predict certain events; I'm not religious

I kind of take the view of a cynic, like yeah I have an ability but so what? It's not like I can do anything with it. So I do selfish things with it only because I'm world wary and don't want criticism to interfere with my life. But really we probably don't need seers anymore as the world is so self-evident nowadays

 

[✿Dai₷y✿]

Wanting death is complicated because its difficult to switch from a first person perspective to narrating in third . After death, what you think will happen or what that achieves is irrelevant as you are no longer relevant.

 

[Gormur]

So, do you guys support euthanasia? I think it'd work if it's only for abused or distressed teens and adults. Children should go to therapy or classes; even though I know when I was a kid I wanted to kill myself everyday. I still do but it's easy to control the feelings I have, or lack of them or whatever =/

 

[TripSitterNZ]

So, do you guys support euthanasia? I think it'd work if it's only for abused or distressed teens and adults. Children should go to therapy or classes; even though I know when I was a kid I wanted to kill myself everyday. I still do but it's easy to control the feelings I have, or lack of them or whatever =/

yes. I kind of support everybodys free will to check themselves out of this world but i also highly emphasize trying to get said people to heal and if anybody wants to kill themselves it should be required they smoke 5 meo dmt because fuck it they have nothing to lose anyway way aswell get some solid information about the afterlife and reality to weigh up their choice. This is usually keep people living. If they still decide they don't want to live this certain life then im not going to blame them and instead just wish the world was better place for all so no one even had to choose that option.

Nearly every day i swing from wanting to blow my brains out of sheer hate at myself for been a failure, Knowing that no one would acutally miss me since there is nothing but the one true self that exists meaning i weigh if this illusion in my own eyes is even worth keeping up when i know bliss awaits me the other side. But still a bit of doubt of what will happen if i do. I don't want to be born as a slum kid after blowing my brains out in a first world country. I would at least want to incarnate into a heavenly realm a alien planet or Moscow is my top 3 choices.

I switch from extreme ends of the mood spectrum many times a day. So far LSD keeps me living as long as i have my LSD i will keep dragging my ass through this world to take more LSD.

 

[tubgirl.jpg]

The ultimate driving factor for man is not the fear of death. It’s the fear of life that plagues society and is the reason why so many people commit suicide. The fear of death does not stop them and it sounds like you’re saying that if that fear was alleviated then people would kill themselves more?? I highly disagree. I think they would have more acceptance towards life if they were able to understand death enough so they are not afraid of it. Because we fear what we don’t understand. And death for a lot of people is an eerie vacuum of uncertainty. If they were to understand the patterns of the universe and the nature of death then they would realize that acceptance towards life is just as important as acceptance towards death. And that suicide does not accomplish anything. Or at least not what people think it accomplishes.

What I meant to say is that the anxiety of death, is a very strong subconsciouss primitive emotion. We have been creating gods and airplanes and bombs and wars and pornography; all of this is to distract.
It came out sort of speeded. What I meant was sumply that of all our drives that keeps us alive, the lingering terror of the great inknown lies closest to most mens heart.

And yes, I do believe, if we'd somehow be able to actually be resonable, to realize that we're puppet's in a meaty-macabre charade, the punchline of a joke we don't get.
To avoid this, we use different techniques. Become our jobs. Isolate. Distract, subliminate -
everything to quiet the notion that one day you and everybody you know will be dust and everything we did here, was building castles made of sand as the tide came in.

Or so I see it. Fear is stronger than love. Pain feels more than pleasure. We mistake the absence of pain or pleasure.

I'm a very devoted Zapffe-fan. He lays forth a theory regarding how we cope with this sensory overload.
Free to read here, just a few pages of excellent observations, really recommend it; you might get a better grasp than what I'm able to convey.
https://philosophynow.org/issues/45/The_Last_Messiah

People are in a downward spiral of thinking that they have to reject and condemn their circumstances so they create a double edged sword for themselves thinking that I either have to fear death to live or fear life to die.

Your mind is a doubleedged sword with no hilt; to swing it, one must grab it. I don't fear death - I fear pain.
I don't fear life, anymore. I used to. Then I stopped taking shit seriously. It's to absurd to kill yourself - like watching a gang-bang with the cast from Brownings classics Freak, on just can't look away.

That’s the imbalance in the mainstream. Fear is propagated and solidified in society so that we are backed into a corner and we find ourselves staying in a certain situation for a longer time than we have to instead of progressing in the most beneficial way. Doing something out of fear will leave you empty in the future and cause you to look back on life feeling like you did something fake because you weren’t doing it out of your own authenticity and passion and free will. It is a good short term strategy but not the ultimate solution. If someone wants to use their free will to commit suicide and to let themselves be dragged down by this fear then that’s a prerogative that I can agree with because people have shitty lives beyond comprehension but however I feel that it is a misunderstanding amongst society and I think people have certain expectations of death that are not at all accurate or realistic which makes suicide a devastating choice that is based MOSTLY off of deterministic behavior patterns and inauthenticity.

See, you still connect suicide with fear. People kill themselves out of boredom of life; because of it's futility. You can only watch paint dry for so long and manipulate yourself into thinking it's exhilirating.
Suicide is devastating to those left behind. And people who condemn suiciders or call them cowards (not meaning you) simply haven't had the circumstanes in their lifes aligned so they been forced to contemplate dying for real.
I'd say it's more authentic bailing on a ride you don't like than stay because of peer-pressure and other peoples fragile egos.

Wow we really are different people. Isolation is actually the problem in my opinion. You make the choice to compare yourself to people out of your own will and ultimately laying the stress upon yourself. I don’t know your life but it sounds like you’re talking about a short hiatus of an already active life. I’m talkin’ about full on antisocialism. Outcast syndrome. That is the real problem. And that’s one of the common factors in school shooters serial killers and people who commit suicide. And I’m not saying that suicide is as bad as those other two. But it just shows that avoiding life and social connection can make it a lot harder to free oneself from ones own psychological and emotional disturbances and negative outlooks and automatic responses of self destruction. It can also make it harder to not fall victim to the mind traps of the internet and tv which can perpetuate those behaviors. It is the fault of the society we live in as well as the fault of the individual.

Hahah, goddamn right we're are opposites. I love that, another perspective.

For me, it's not about making a choice or not; I don't care if you're Mr. Manhattan, we all compare ourselves to other peoole, in the darkness of our hearts or in the shameful light of day.
Or so I believe, and my observations has made me come to this conclusion aswell. I really don't give a shit about other peole's ambitions, their have or have nots.
I feel certain in myself in a way I've haven't before. And this has resultet after a long period of isolation, of contemplation - panic at times, bliss at others.
Isolation allows you to be comfortable with yourself. When you've accepted everything you are, first as good and bad traits, then simply traits - that's freedom brother.
You can't ever get to know yourself I think, but shutting out other inputs than your own thoughts I think is a good start.

Everybody has a secret room, an infite space in the minds, where we tuck away all that heinous shit we don't want anyone to see.

I'm not an outcast. Far from it. I have more friends than I'd like to have. When I isolate, I isolate. Off the grid. Books, not computer. Pen and pad, not cellphone.
Would you say all those monks are potential school shooters? You don't think a man who meditates almost every waking hour benefits more than from what we do?
Our sin is gluttony and the meal is information. Co-dependence.

Of course, isolation that is involuntarly, yes, definately homicidal potential there. But I wouldn't blame society. That's the easy way out man.
The problem is us, every single one. Each of us are as guilty - we watched them peel the earth and carve it hollow? Do we give a shit?
No, we keep buying appliances that is the rot-cause of this mess, as patches on a gash within that will always bleed.

What exactly do you mean by the light barely conquering the dark? You can still acknowledge that you have specific unique abilities that can benefit your fellow human in a special way without putting pressure on yourself to do so. You are right that we are taught to have pressure and expectation and to rush things but that doesn’t negate the potential value of going in the direction of what you ultimately feel passionate about. If you feel real true passion about something then you will be able to do it without pressure and expectation on yourself. You don’t have to become famous to make the world a better place. If you have confidence in yourself and your true genuine interests then you will automatically propel yourself to your desired state.

We agree! I quit my job to finish my novel. Not because I expect dineros or even being published, but it is the one thing I'd kill myself for, if I were to lose the ability to write.
If you do something for fame or cash, you don't do it for passion. I released a novel when I was 17. Got me nowhere, but here I am, third day awake trying to finnish this manuscript.

Of course, I'm not a savage. I'd be happy to help my fellow man if he aske me and I had the ability. Why wouldn't I?

Most people just do not have the self awareness to tap into that strong passion and confidence and as a result they feel like they don’t have anything significant to contribute. But the truth is that if everyone was aware of themselves and was in alignment with their true passion then we would all have the ability to become famous and the whole paradigm will just naturally break down. Idolization is definitely a factor in suicide as I have mentioned Kurt cobain. However that’s not what I was explaining when I mentioned that we all have talents and abilities that can contribute to society.

I talked to a few friends about this. I have always loved to write. During periods when I can't, I get extremely depressed. When I write, I feel, in lack of better words, invincible.
Out of six people, two had a burning passion. The others didn't care about.. anything, basically. They want kids and a house. Celebration-time...

Again what do you mean by intelligent? That is subjective. It has nothing to do with intelligence. It’s your focus that determines your outlook. If you choose to look behind the veil then that is what I call psychological/spiritual suicide. That in and of itself is another brainwashed indulgence. No one told you to look behind the veil but we are hardwired to be overly curious to the point where it’s self destructive. That is a form of suicide all on its own that is perpetuated by the idolization of people like Syd Barret and Peter green.

Intelligent is the wrong word, my mistake, again. I'm working on my english skills. There are many types of intelligence. Some intelligence you can measure; logical, mensa-tests etc.
What I mean is those who lacks any divine anchoring, any solid surface in a world that's constantly decomposing. I mean people who can view life and somehow detach themselves from it;
and when you do, it's a shitty fucking deal.

Looking "behind" the veil may not be an option, but something that is forced upon you. And that shit rusts into the dust of your bones.
Godless, in a ecological system that is a glorified slaughterhouse. Born to spew forth more of us wrecking havoc on everything.
I see a lot of anti-natal tendencies in younger generations - that encourages me. It is in my opinion worse to create a life, too rip something from the perfection of oblivion into a meat-suit.


Yes, killing yourself because your hero did it is not such a ... worthy cause, in my opinion.

And suicide is a splinter in everyone’s subconscious. Even the people who say they have never thought about it. It runs deeper than you might think.

Suicide for the most part is brain control by socialization of an already damaged and depressed society. It’s just passes on from generation to generation and is so common that it appears as if it is just something that we are naturally supposed to feel. It’s an illusion for the same reason that death itself is an illusion. There is no such thing as death. You continue on in different forms and the form you take on next is dependent on your previous form. The lessons you’ve learned and the knowledge you have gained. It doesn’t just disappear. Your body and self concept disappear but you use the information that is learned in this life to decide what endeavor you’re gonna take on next. If you commit suicide you are resisting that process and resisting your higher self from progressing and evolving and it will just choose another form that is similar or worse. Nobody said life is sanctified but it is important to accept its flaws and live through the ugliness the same way we accept the flaws of someone we love. If not then we will just repeat the same pattern.

Lots of things I agree here. But I would say that society is damaged beause it's built by damaged constructors; us. And there is no past, present or future, no.

The highlighted; I do believe we're in a loop, reliving and re-hashing the same shit over and over and over again. The flat-circle theory of time. I don't believe in any kind of univeral moral, so I can't buy into the fact of evolving, or being punished for in the next life for what you did here. You just rinse and repeat.

Nobody said so, but that's the consensus, isn't it? If not, why isn't murder legal if life isn't put in a piedestal.
And I agree; accepting yourself is accepting the world. All the ugly traits, all that shit your ashamed of. People should own it. Experiences are all we have - why not collect as many as possible, throughout the spectrum of so called "good" and "bad" deeds (I'm not saying rape or murder or hurt anyone; well, some people deserves to get hurt). And violence is hard-wired in us. Put the most unlikely people in a situation where they haev to kill or be killed and give them a knife. I'm no longer suprised or astounded by humans; gang-rapes, genocides, the hurt we cause each other; we're vicious creatures who are barely able to whip ourself into submission.

I'm a misanthrope. I've never been anything else, never felt anything else towards our species. But that loathing is not transerred unto individuals; I'm not one to judge anyone, really.

Science provides a rather lifeless and meaningless interpretation of the reality we live in so it’s expected for you to feel threatened by it but has no real bearing to the vastness and complexity of life itself. Reality is not atoms and molecules randomly bouncing off eachother. That is a misinterpretation based on rigid thinking and narrow outlooks of people who want control and dominion over the fundamental processes and occurrences of nature. Why? Because of fear. I wouldn’t place too much stress on that aspect of it if I were you.

I'm not threatened by dying. I should be dead. Why do you think I quit my job, moved home at 33 to write? It sounds absurd. No normal person would drop everything.
I haven't payed a credit-card bill in years. Since coming to terms with who I am and what life is, too me, everything is easier.

What I’m describing in that quote is the obsessive attachment we have to things that disconnect us from society more and more and drives us to the point of not feeling good enough which ultimately leads to suicide. We are addicted to pretense and feeling insecure and obsessing over what other people think of us so in that sense we do need an enlightenment or awakening of some kind whether that yields bad results or good ones.

I get it dude, totally. And I was once like you said, very insecure. I made a half-ass atttempt a few years ago before the big realization.

Having children or not having children is irrelevant. Babies are born everyday and the population is accelerating like the universe. Do you know how unrealistic it is to expect enough people to stop having babies to the point where we become extinct?? Thats a backwards nihilistic proposition that is not worth indulging in. You can have a child that just gets swept up by the negativity just like everyone else or you can have a child that eventually realizes his or herself and decides to make a difference in the world and lift people up. In the latter case it is not as much as an abusive infliction upon the child the way you are making it seem. It is dependent on the child to choose how they will react to any given situation. Even though that might sound cold or detached. A child has more power than you realize.

Man, everybody having a baby thinks their little pathwork of DNA will change the world.

Give me ONE reason to create a life that benefits the one who receives the gift? Hm? There are NONE.
And don't tell me I "deny someone the journey that's life"; that's a ludacris argument if there ever was one. That sounded rowdy, sorry an.
Every life is bodily aches, stress, mental deteriation. Every life is deprived of something. ONce we get that, we want something else.
That which does not exist cannot suffer. But humans, we always suffer.

A child is but a sin of two people; we named our own species Homo Sapiens, "The Wise Ones". If we're so wise, and smart, how come we can't stop for a a second, contemplate why we'd want more misery on the planet, and use a rubber or snipp the tubes? Again, a quite solid proof in my book we're all living in some collective psychosis.

The reason why the environment is messed up is because there are too many people who don’t have knowledge of themselves and the greater universe. They think that everything is scientific and that we just have to wait for scientific solutions. But the whole human consciousness is in suicide mode if you wanna know the truth. If you think of society as one person that wants to kill themselves you have already solved the problem. It’s a disconnection among the people and a lack of awareness towards the unified field that they share on a deeper level. That’s why isolation is not the solution. It perpetuates it. Making it easier to sink into the trappings of media brainwashing and unresolved emotional traumas that separate us more from eachother and gives us false realities and expectations. We disregard environmental problems because deep down we want to destroy ourselves. And we have to realize that as an interconnected community before there is any change to that. If change is what you really want.

I agree with that. Anger and disappointment is just more stress upon them which will make them want to die more. And it just shows fear and selfishness on the person who’s getting mad.

However I don’t think that it’s out of line to get mad at the fact that there are so many people who are misunderstood about suicide and what that entails and they are just going off the expectations and the beliefs that society and media gives to them. It has run rampant for generations and will increasingly get worse if we don’t realize ourselves and our true nature.

The reason the enviroment is messed is simple; there's nothing more destructive to nature than raising another human (yesyes, atomic-bombs and so on).
We claim to care about the enviroment, yet our homes are cluttered with the things that destroys it. Material possessions. God, all these things.

We come from tribes raging between 50-150 indivuduals. Now we live 12 million people in some citites like chimps at the zoo in our apartments.

Totally agree with the last suicide-part. Your opinions makes me rethink a few things, but my core values probably won't, ever again.
I did enjoy hearing what you said. It's cool hearing the otherside; how we can be so different in our formulations and ideas, though I think we both want the same thing, really.
Being happy and making others happy.

I'td be really cool to hear you opinion on that Last Messiah Essay. I think you'd like it.

@ovenbakedskittles , you're a pleasure talking to. I can get riled up typing like this, rip me a new one if I offended you; I must certainly wasn't trying to.

 

[Shrooms00087]

Is that really a philosophy? Wisdom to live by?

 

[Foreigner]

Like a feeling of not being able to really be yourself because your environment doesn't feel compatible and the culture denies any opportunity to break any chains, potentially chains that hold people back and do not allow them to fully realize their being and express themselves freely. That has to be probably one of the most destructive forces around and what is worse is it happens on such a deep level that it traumatizes people and naturally so, seeing as the entire being of an individual is under threat and where there are no threats there are chains that hold people down. Those who see beyond the invisible wall holding people back are often the 'crazy' ones because they see what others cannot - freedom beyond the trap. The trap could be age old cultural beliefs, it could be hysteria, superstition, groupthink, dogma/stigma, dysfunctional patterns of behaviour etc.
These then become chains, even when the person wearing them (usually the one calling you 'crazy') professes how great their life is and how much of a 'real' person they are and how you must be just like them and just like everybody else. I always say it's always the ones who ramble on about being real people that are often the most deluded and completely lost in life because they think their lives are explained by these infantile, superficial and completely meaningless constructs and without these they completely disintegrate, until of course they have a life changing experience that changes their perspective and makes them see that much of their life is actually a lie.

I come from a rural area in the UK. Some of these areas in the rural north haven't changed much since before the industrial revolution. Many people are very primitive and many are extremely unstable and experience social issues on a daily basis. It can be felt in the culture as trauma, pain, suffering, isolation, abandonment. There is a distinct lack of education surrounding the understanding of life, of self, others, integration into society, broadening awareness beyond their isolated rural culture etc. Many people simply assume the few miles in all directions they call home is actually the entire world. In that way it's a lot like how people saw themselves and the world in the medieval era. I get on the bus and people are endlessly watching the door to see whether a new threat will appear to eradicate them, you watch most people are their nerves are shot; twitching, showing evident signs of discomfort and incongruence like something within them is not balanced. All the while, it's just a bus ride to the next town! Because their lives consist of nothing they are endlessly overthinking, overanalyzing and because trauma is at the seat of the culture and is unprocessed and unintegrated (because the older generations had no awareness and/or education on how to deal with it) they are constantly in fight or flight mode always looking for a threat. Of course, there is no threat. The threat however IS the culture, just people don't recognize when what they experience is a product of the culture they live in or whether it's actually themselves. Culture has a powerful effect on peoples lives and yet many completely forget culture is at play when they are experiencing life. When having a conversation local people quickly go into themselves when the conversation is not superficial, they become anxious, paranoid even, unable to process anything that requires them to think and act differently to what they have been used to all their life. People lack all kinds of stimulation and therefore they are deprived and always searching but many never find what they are seeking and they simply assume a role that is bestowed upon them by the culture. Alas, the suffering continues. In the meantime the defense mechanisms jump into action and now we have sociopathy, narcissism, depression, anxiety, PTSD, OCD, schizophrenia and psychotic symptoms, hysteria, psychogenic illnesses, antisocial behaviour. At a social level we have disconnection, disunity, violence, segregation, isolation, abandonment etc.

That sh*t affects you. It affects me everytime I come back, if my time here is prolonged and I began to become acculturated. Before long I'm feeling the misery and the emptiness of the culture and I understand why people dress so plain, talk the same, act the same, feel the same and it's because, as you mentioned in your post, they do not see what lies beneath the illusion, the veil of reality that makes up our world. They simply assume that's how life is and yet their very behaviour proves deep down they know things aren't right because how they behave reflects the very issues with the culture and then as a result with themselves as a product of that culture.

I agree with and understand everything you've eloquently written so concisely. I have lived all over the world and I find that there is really no culture that I don't find limiting. My hometown culture may be more triggering because I have been more inculcated by it, but I haven't found a culture where I really feel like I belong. Part of it is the degree of human trauma I have suffered... it has made it difficult for me to interface with human beings in general. Part of it is that I am so advanced in certain areas (as described by others, not by myself) that I believe this creates an alienating effect and in turn social dysfunction. I find humans in general limited, even if I can see past my own traumas. The difference is that when I am even keel, I can show love and compassion for human limitations (including my own); but when I don't get the support I need from this life, it turns to bitterness and self-isolation pretty fast. It turns out that it doesn't matter what deep stuff you know or how enlightened you come across, if basic human needs aren't met then you are just as much in danger as some other fool. And for me, this causes a loss of faith because it turns out maybe I'm the fool, and not other people. I haven't played the human game to get myself ahead like others have. I don't scheme, plot, or misrepresent myself to impress others and gain their favour. It's like asking a deer to partake in a killing game. I'm not so helpless and docile, but I am of a different nature that often just wants the tide to take me out to sea rather than fight it all the time.

Having said all that, you're still there, right? You are NOT the culture. You exist beyond that. You still exist. Everything that is great about you still exists right now. It's not going anywhere. And if it does, it can always be regained. We are not primitive CD-R's, we are lightning fast SSDs capable of redefining what can be written and what is written every second of our lives. I've lost myself many times but what I've found out is I was always right there even when I was lost. I thought things had changed but all that changed is my thinking about who I was. Who I was and who I am is consistent, it is what always will be there. The culture is the illusion, albeit persistent. Granted, culture is powerful but as human beings we can transcend culture. Culture is a product of our conscious ability to define our reality and then share these realities with others in customs, values, belief systems etc. Therefore we are the masters of culture and do not need to be victims of them. How many are masters of culture? How many are victims? That is my question. When you understand the game, you no longer have to be attached to it in the same way. You know the game is a game and so you can choose whether to play it. When the game stops being your de facto reality it becomes something that happens with your conscious awareness and therefore you can choose how to respond to it.

You're right, I am always okay, it's just the mental process that makes me seem not okay. But the mental process can cost me my life because the egoic level suffering of my mind gets so intense that I don't know how to silence it anymore. I have been both master and victim of culture. I speak 5 languages fairly fluently but I stopped pursuing each of them because their underlying cultures did not interest me, because I encounter the same human problems no matter where I go in the world, and I feel trapped by the "karma" of being human. I myself have the same needs and desires that drive the entire human problem. I'm not above it. Chop wood, carry water. I've realized a bunch of stuff and now I'm faced with the human game, with some serious personal disadvantages.

I agree that not letting the game be de facto reality is a good frame to get myself into... but without daily structure, meaning, connection to other humans and the environment around me, some sense of material security... what is the point of living? To me, this requires playing the game. It means at least temporarily tolerating cultural indoctrination while knowing full well you have already swallowed the red pill and can't go back. Some people do great at faking it to get the mark and others like myself just abandon. I can't enter the illusion without making myself ill.

You can always choose. Always. There is always something you can do, something you think to change your mind. Otherwise you are simply determined by everything external to you and so you concede any potential you have to utilize your own innate resources to transform your situation. And when it comes to culture, understanding that is doesn't have to define you unless you choose to let it, unconsiously or otherwise, can liberate you. And if it becomes a battle, that's when it's potentially time to change your environment. It shouldn't become a battle though. You have nothing to prove and you can nothing by trying to 'beat' the culture other than potentially moving yourself further away from what aligns you with how you really are, and that is detrimental, from my experience anyway. Sometimes you just have to let go of that sh*t and be somewhere else, somewhere better. There is a time to fight and a time to simply walk away and know there is better out there for you. That's why I always move to a city that's not lightyears from my hometown. Even though it's only an hour or two away on a bus it feels like a world apart in terms of the environment. I practically change within a few weeks and I'm better in all aspects of my life; mental, emotional, spiritual, physical etc.

Well, you've honed in on a major reason why I'm suicidal. I have nowhere to go. Canada is a culturally undeveloped wasteland. I don't care what other Canadians say, this is not a great country. There are 3 major cities, all in major decay right now, and outside of that are cultural backwaters masquerading as urban cultures. I'm disabled, low income. I was put out to pasture in my prime. Those years are ticking by now. The only agency I can think of is to maybe do more school and get a job that doesn't grate my soul to do, but that requires playing the game, doing the academic head trip again, trying to gain institutional approval of my existence, all for what? Like, what am I really doing?

My traumas have been environmental, but they have led to a severe existential trauma that is ongoing. I have nowhere to go that feels safe. I have no one to be with who won't eventually leave. I have no sense of family or home. I only have the cold comfort that this is all a temporary illusion.

My innate resources don't mesh with the M.O. of how this society operates. I have tried. I just get ill. This society is ill on every level and the only way to insulate oneself from it is to have privilege that lets you build a moat around yourself: with money, with human resources, with a cushy job, etc. There is so little sense of collectivity. It's all on you to build your moat and if you can't or won't do it, then you're subject to all the ills of this society and you become ill yourself. I have tried building an inner spiritual moat, which is a non-moat really... because in reality, nothing is actually wrong. It's just mind.

But then you stub your toe and it hurts like fuck and you're back in samsara.

Unlike almost everyone I know, I don't make up a story about suffering. I can't anymore. I can't pretend that chasing X Y or Z will "bring me happiness" and guard me against the world. I just saw a relative die of cancer, her vital life withered away to nothing. Everyone around her bed was telling jokes to laugh, or stories, or whatever. No one could sit in the silence of death. I understand. Why do that if you don't have to? But to me, there is nothing noble in the illusion. I can't be a magician who weaves his own illusion so strong that he believes it enough to get comfort from it. I feel like any path I chase is just leading to more samsara.

I looked at her dying body, and it reminded me of every other dying body I've seen. My pet dog, my pet hamster, my pet gecko, the cat that got hit by the car on my street one time, the little bugs on the ground. We are these complicated animals that are so convincingly advanced to one another, but seeing my relative dying really made me see clearly how humans are just complex animals. Death gets us all, and in the mean time we spend our lives running around doing I know not what, until the body stops, then we stop, and then what was it all for anyway?

Much of this story I believe is to do with personal responsibility and the awareness of our ability to choose how we live our lives and how cultivate and maintain our realities.
I spent the best part of several decades living with what appears to be something similiar to your situation. Again and like mentioned above, I'm not trying to assume I know your personal story at all. I'm obviously relating to what you said based on how it appears to be similiar to my own experiences and I could be wrong and if I am then I apologize.


Just remember the potential you have. It's a great gift to have and you must find a way to realize it and transform it into something that benefits others around you and yourself.
And don't apologize for being you who you are is special, unique and should be valued

My biggest achievements, my greatest gifts, are all unseen. I can't put them on a resume. I can't brag about them to an admission's committee at a university. I can't buy a house with them. But they are major. I have seen what lies between life and death. I have lived with a severe form of an illness for years that would've killed most right at the beginning. My wisdom is huge. But it doesn't give me practical access to the world. It doesn't make me feel more connected to people unless they are being totally real with me. Sitting around a dinner table with a group of people the other night, with all their small talk... I just said nothing. There's nothing to say. I can't conjure those small niceties anymore. I can't even hate them for it because they are all just being their sweet selves.

I feel not human anymore. I am otherly.

 

[TripSitterNZ]

Foreigner since you are in canada 5 meo DMT is legal and I highly recommend looking into it and having a trip sitter it will release you from everything. Plus it has long term change in consciouness you will gain the ability to mediate into infinity and the godhead forever afterwards

 

[Foreigner]

Foreigner since you are in canada 5 meo DMT is legal and I highly recommend looking into it and having a trip sitter it will release you from everything. Plus it has long term change in consciouness you will gain the ability to mediate into infinity and the godhead forever afterwards

I appreciate your posts as always, but I can't handle mind altering right now. I am too traumatized. I've gone the psychedelic route before. I don't need connection with the absolute. I need connection with me. Thanks.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Is that really a philosophy? Wisdom to live by?

heheh. my thoughts exactly. to me it's just a reaction from one's survival mechanism. ironic.