Opioids The Opioid Withdrawal Megathread and FAQ

[Nas47]

Tapper ma friend.Sucess wish to you

 

[Albert E.]

I am 13 days off opioids (x 10 years of using) and I am feeling fair. I'm in my 50s and did not use any drugs until my early 40's.

So today, day 13, I'm 'okay'. Not great. But just 'fair'. I can say that I have NO CRAVING to use at this point. Just waiting for feel energetic again (for lack of a better word). I have read virtually EVERY post here and the standard theme is that I see the most desperate people seem to post on day 3-4. ("Life sucks". "I can't take it". "When it is going to stop").

I have been kicking myself for a decade because I had NO REASON to get into this poison. I had a great family life, a 6 figure salary professional job, awesome kids, nice, paid-for house...........I had it all. I was Rx'd some percocet for kidney stones way back (2006 or so). Took as Rx'd for a few days and felt they really didn't do anything. (Trust me, they don't touch the PAIN of kidney stones.) So, they just sat on my counter for 7 years until one day........ (SHIT, oh I wish I could time-travel back to this day and 'just say NO!'.)...........but one day at work.....it was a long day. I was tired. Maybe had a little headache (can't remember really). But for SOME reason (I'm going to say the devil for lack of anything else because I do believe these drugs are from the devil himself....they are THAT evil to take over your life and do it's best to destroy it)> Anyway......... I just took 2 pills. And lo and behold, within an hour, I was feeling great. Ready for work. Personable. Friendly. You know. And son-of-a-bitch! I swear I think 2 pills hooked me. I never stopped from there.

So day 3 is when the hell starts for most people that have posted. This certainly makes sense. All info suggests that physical withdrawals peek at this time. Many people don't seem to come back to post how things went after their 3-4 days of hell so I want to catalog my recovery in hopes it helps others/anyone.

I have tried to quit, like most others, numerous times. Never made it longer than 6 days.

This time, I have sold my shop, separated from spouse, taken a sabbatical from work (no work for 6 months.......fortunately I can afford to do this..........I wish everyone could). I've just had it and HAVE to get better.

Here how things have gone so far:

Day 1: nothing too bad. Not much energy so just lay around watching t.v. Was able to visit my parent's house and see them.

Day 2: Begin to feel 'down'. Lazy. Lethargic. No energy. (however you want to say it.........or maybe it is all 4 at once ) Can't eat anything--just ZERO appetite. Smells are already smelling weird/nasty. Any and everything smells funny. It's like your sense of smell is hyperacute. You seemed to be smelling things as well as a bloodhound dog. Eyes start watering. I had to keep an old cotton t-shirt in my bed to constantly dry my eyes. Sneezing is common. The lack of sleep the perhaps the worse for many. I mean I MIGHT get 15 minutes of sleep from 4-5am. Maybe half an hour if I was lucky. And this lack of sleep lasted at least 8-10 nights. It's actually kind of weird. Even though I wasn't sleeping, I didn't really feel 'sleepy' during the days. Just the normal tiredness which I consider not sleepy. Might not make sense. But it isn't 'tired' wanted to go to sleep. It's just like all of the energy had been SUCKED out of my body. That is the best way I can describe it.

Day 3: Yea, it REALLY kicked in now. Day 1 & 2 plus diarrhea. This diarrhea lasted me 11 days-- from day 2 to 12!! I tried to eat a little something here and there. 1/4 of a banana. 1 oreo cookie. Had to almost force them down.
As others have mentioned, my emotions went haywire (for about 7 days). I am a person that rarely cries but cry like a baby I did. The emotion just well up so bad that it is impossible not to cry (for only maybe 1-2 minutes). It begins in the chest as a huge remorse you feel and travels to your eyes. In the past I've had restless legs but never did this time??

Day 4-10. ALL the above symptoms persisted. I was a little better. If day three & four were a one on a 1-10 scale, then day 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9,10, 11, &12 are all a THREE maybe (with 10 being your favorite high and 5 being 'normal'). I tried to go out of my house. Ran to Walmart for supplies but couldn't wait to get home. Hoped no one talked me because that would only irritate me. Also, also....................the initial recover doesn't seem to be linear. Meaning, I'd feel good for 30 minutes beginning on day 7 and then, BOOM, the super crapping feeling would come back, like all of the sudden for the rest of the day. It would do like this--- brief feelings of 'everything is good now-finally...............and then. Bam! The devil sees you are feeling good and smacks you back down.

Day 11-12 are not much different. STILL diarrhea. And no to little energy still. No desire to do much of anything (yard work, work on my car......things I used to enjoy doing). I only want to lay in bed and watch Turner Classic Movies and other documentaries (anything without commercials). I have been able to eat fairly well. Normal food, I mean. Not too much of it. But a hamburger. Steak. Rolls. Things like this. I did lose about 8-10 pounds (not a bad thing really for me). And sleep...........Ah, beautiful, precisous sleep has returned. 6 hours. 8 hours. I wake up NOT feeling like a zombie with a hang-over. Waking up at 8:30 am and feel...............'okay' on day 12 & 13.

Day 13. Finally. Solid stools. Diarrhea has stopped. Took longer than I have read.......at least for me. My only real problem now is the lack of energy to do much of ANYTHING still. Hope it's coming. I'll let you all know.

I WILL NEVER GO BACK TO USING AGAIN. IT HAS COST ME ENOUGH IN LIFE. You all know that repeated story. And I refuse to repeat it.

A few things I've found.

1. I don't drink coffee but I did find 5-hr energy (or any energy drink, I suppose) to help a little. But don't expect them to make you feel like popping up and running around the room. Just a tiny help for me.
2. I began to watch You-tube videos of people doing TedTalks speaking of their recover that seem to help (show, that there was, in fact, some light at the end of the tunnel).
3. MUSIC! This, to my surprise, was a big help for me. Just listening to my fav songs on Spotify I guess gets a little endorphins going and even made me want to sing along (something I've never done before).
4. I know many people say exercise is vital and get you doing. But, while i have exercised most all my life, I could just not manage to get up and work out. Wish I could because I do believe it will help. Maybe tomorrow
5. I found it very important to be alone during this time. Just to suffer by myself. Personally, I could not have even gone this long if I had to go to work or do anything around a group of people. (I know because I tried at least 5 times to quit while still having to go to work and be around family). I know people that have done it. And I know many must continue working during withdrawal. I feel for you brothers and sisters. I've been through Parris Island Marine Corp boot camp and dental school and this has been harder than both of them combined. But I am going to show you that it IS possible as I cont. to log on and document by success.

 

[Delmonte421]

i

I am 13 days off opioids (x 10 years of using) and I am feeling fair. I'm in my 50s and did not use any drugs until my early 40's.

So today, day 13, I'm 'okay'. Not great. But just 'fair'. I can say that I have NO CRAVING to use at this point. Just waiting for feel energetic again (for lack of a better word). I have read virtually EVERY post here and the standard theme is that I see the most desperate people seem to post on day 3-4. ("Life sucks". "I can't take it". "When it is going to stop").

I have been kicking myself for a decade because I had NO REASON to get into this poison. I had a great family life, a 6 figure salary professional job, awesome kids, nice, paid-for house...........I had it all. I was Rx'd some percocet for kidney stones way back (2006 or so). Took as Rx'd for a few days and felt they really didn't do anything. (Trust me, they don't touch the PAIN of kidney stones.) So, they just sat on my counter for 7 years until one day........ (SHIT, oh I wish I could time-travel back to this day and 'just say NO!'.)...........but one day at work.....it was a long day. I was tired. Maybe had a little headache (can't remember really). But for SOME reason (I'm going to say the devil for lack of anything else because I do believe these drugs are from the devil himself....they are THAT evil to take over your life and do it's best to destroy it)> Anyway......... I just took 2 pills. And lo and behold, within an hour, I was feeling great. Ready for work. Personable. Friendly. You know. And son-of-a-bitch! I swear I think 2 pills hooked me. I never stopped from there.

So day 3 is when the hell starts for most people that have posted. This certainly makes sense. All info suggests that physical withdrawals peek at this time. Many people don't seem to come back to post how things went after their 3-4 days of hell so I want to catalog my recovery in hopes it helps others/anyone.

I have tried to quit, like most others, numerous times. Never made it longer than 6 days.

This time, I have sold my shop, separated from spouse, taken a sabbatical from work (no work for 6 months.......fortunately I can afford to do this..........I wish everyone could). I've just had it and HAVE to get better.

Here how things have gone so far:

Day 1: nothing too bad. Not much energy so just lay around watching t.v. Was able to visit my parent's house and see them.

Day 2: Begin to feel 'down'. Lazy. Lethargic. No energy. (however you want to say it.........or maybe it is all 4 at once ) Can't eat anything--just ZERO appetite. Smells are already smelling weird/nasty. Any and everything smells funny. It's like your sense of smell is hyperacute. You seemed to be smelling things as well as a bloodhound dog. Eyes start watering. I had to keep an old cotton t-shirt in my bed to constantly dry my eyes. Sneezing is common. The lack of sleep the perhaps the worse for many. I mean I MIGHT get 15 minutes of sleep from 4-5am. Maybe half an hour if I was lucky. And this lack of sleep lasted at least 8-10 nights. It's actually kind of weird. Even though I wasn't sleeping, I didn't really feel 'sleepy' during the days. Just the normal tiredness which I consider not sleepy. Might not make sense. But it isn't 'tired' wanted to go to sleep. It's just like all of the energy had been SUCKED out of my body. That is the best way I can describe it.

Day 3: Yea, it REALLY kicked in now. Day 1 & 2 plus diarrhea. This diarrhea lasted me 11 days-- from day 2 to 12!! I tried to eat a little something here and there. 1/4 of a banana. 1 oreo cookie. Had to almost force them down.
As others have mentioned, my emotions went haywire (for about 7 days). I am a person that rarely cries but cry like a baby I did. The emotion just well up so bad that it is impossible not to cry (for only maybe 1-2 minutes). It begins in the chest as a huge remorse you feel and travels to your eyes. In the past I've had restless legs but never did this time??

Day 4-10. ALL the above symptoms persisted. I was a little better. If day three & four were a one on a 1-10 scale, then day 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9,10, 11, &12 are all a THREE maybe (with 10 being your favorite high and 5 being 'normal'). I tried to go out of my house. Ran to Walmart for supplies but couldn't wait to get home. Hoped no one talked me because that would only irritate me. Also, also....................the initial recover doesn't seem to be linear. Meaning, I'd feel good for 30 minutes beginning on day 7 and then, BOOM, the super crapping feeling would come back, like all of the sudden for the rest of the day. It would do like this--- brief feelings of 'everything is good now-finally...............and then. Bam! The devil sees you are feeling good and smacks you back down.

Day 11-12 are not much different. STILL diarrhea. And no to little energy still. No desire to do much of anything (yard work, work on my car......things I used to enjoy doing). I only want to lay in bed and watch Turner Classic Movies and other documentaries (anything without commercials). I have been able to eat fairly well. Normal food, I mean. Not too much of it. But a hamburger. Steak. Rolls. Things like this. I did lose about 8-10 pounds (not a bad thing really for me). And sleep...........Ah, beautiful, precisous sleep has returned. 6 hours. 8 hours. I wake up NOT feeling like a zombie with a hang-over. Waking up at 8:30 am and feel...............'okay' on day 12 & 13.

Day 13. Finally. Solid stools. Diarrhea has stopped. Took longer than I have read.......at least for me. My only real problem now is the lack of energy to do much of ANYTHING still. Hope it's coming. I'll let you all know.

I WILL NEVER GO BACK TO USING AGAIN. IT HAS COST ME ENOUGH IN LIFE. You all know that repeated story. And I refuse to repeat it.

A few things I've found.

1. I don't drink coffee but I did find 5-hr energy (or any energy drink, I suppose) to help a little. But don't expect them to make you feel like popping up and running around the room. Just a tiny help for me.
2. I began to watch You-tube videos of people doing TedTalks speaking of their recover that seem to help (show, that there was, in fact, some light at the end of the tunnel).
3. MUSIC! This, to my surprise, was a big help for me. Just listening to my fav songs on Spotify I guess gets a little endorphins going and even made me want to sing along (something I've never done before).
4. I know many people say exercise is vital and get you doing. But, while i have exercised most all my life, I could just not manage to get up and work out. Wish I could because I do believe it will help. Maybe tomorrow
5. I found it very important to be alone during this time. Just to suffer by myself. Personally, I could not have even gone this long if I had to go to work or do anything around a group of people. (I know because I tried at least 5 times to quit while still having to go to work and be around family). I know people that have done it. And I know many must continue working during withdrawal. I feel for you brothers and sisters. I've been through Parris Island Marine Corp boot camp and dental school and this has been harder than both of them combined. But I am going to show you that it IS possible as I cont. to log on and document by success.

Is it really the bad? I was taking 10 fake m30's a day and then switched to oxy which k had to take roughly 200mg a day to match and after a week I got myself down to 90-100mg. But if I don't take anything for 12 hours I start to feel WD. I basically wait for my buddy to tell me to take another 30mg or whatever then wait it out. I have subs but I kinda like staying on oxy until the cost catch up to me and I have to hop back on subs.

 

[plumbus-nine]

Sorry if my post is inappropriate here. But I can only repeat what I've posted already in other threads. I was on 600mg/d XR morphine for two years and I kicked it without getting through withdrawal. I acknowledge that my dose wasn't as high as some people's heroin intake is but let me tell you that even just 1 day late without my precious morphine and I was crawling to the clinic to pick up my morphine (or before methadone, which was even worse if I had to decide). I experienced all the symptoms of early opioid withdrawal like restlessness, no energy/no appetite, diarrhea, weirdly amped sense of smell (this was maybe the most fascinating aspect lol) but when I decided that it was time to really kick the opioids I got none of these symptoms besides a bit of yawning and the effects of the kicking drugs I've used. First I've tapered down as far as possible with the aid of high pregabalin dosages and then took some megadoses of the dissociative (but sold as an Alzheimer treatment) memantine. The good things about memantine are the mental clarity unlike the trippiness of most dissociatives, and the long duration (72+h vs. 2-3h for ketamine). I think no more than three high (60+mgs) dosages were required to push my tolerance down to almost zero and then some light dosages to cover post-acute withdrawal. I was surprised myself how easy it was to get that stuff away. The problem is that you need to stay sober, even with tolerance reset when I found some remaining morphine XR pills, of course what does a junkie do? Relapse. Now while just 60mg had me flowing nicely but they brought withdrawal back for half a day or so. Not full-on but enough to interfere with everyday activities. Only after 6+ months I was finally able to do opioids again without triggering withdrawal.

 

[Señor Moreno]

Plumbus, mate, I do think that 600 mgs morphine s day is indeed a serious dosage. Sure you are right that people do crazy amounts, but 600 mgs M is no joke.
So, what's the deal with that memantine you said? Do you know if It is avaliable at a regular pharmacy in a western euro country? How does it affects you and in what way? I mean, you said it is not as strong as a disso as ket, but do you feel disso? Stimulated? Nothing at all?
And how much did you taper the morphine previously?

 

[plumbus-nine]

Plumbus, mate, I do think that 600 mgs morphine s day is indeed a serious dosage. Sure you are right that people do crazy amounts, but 600 mgs M is no joke.
So, what's the deal with that memantine you said? Do you know if It is avaliable at a regular pharmacy in a western euro country? How does it affects you and in what way? I mean, you said it is not as strong as a disso as ket, but do you feel disso? Stimulated? Nothing at all?
And how much did you taper the morphine previously?

I knew somebody who did 2.4g of morphine every second day. Opiate tolerance is only limited by financial resources and mental strength it seems.
Memantine is unfortunately prescription only in most western countries but can be obtained from Indian online pharmacies which I'm not allowed to link but the real ones are cheap. I have to say that I had acquired a serious tolerance to dissociatives before (which, unlike opioid tolerance, rises only very slowly and drops even slower), this might have added to the mental clarity factor but I did high dosages of memantine like more than 100mg at once and it felt perfectly safe, of course a little spun out but the only side effect my girlfriend noticed was insomnia. Be prepared for some nights up. I think one can use any dissociative, not just memantine, it just happened to be what I had around. I think the longer the duration the better, from some reports I extrapolate that most people grow bored/afraid/whatever of continuing to dose on the dissociative of choice and bail out too soon. But DXM for example (as the one which most people can acquire w/o prescription as long as they don't live in Switzerland) will induce a heavy mind and body trip at the dosages required. Some say you could also use low dosages to potentiate an opioid and possibly help with tapering but it seems only to work for some. DXM stopped working for me once I had a relevant tolerance to opioids and nowadays I just get psychotic side effects from it but I am mostly alone with this symptom. Memantine is by my own experiences by far the cleanest dissociative while remaining effective at modulating opioid tolerance.

 

[Señor Moreno]

I am 13 days off opioids (x 10 years of using) and I am feeling fair. I'm in my 50s and did not use any drugs until my early 40's.

So today, day 13, I'm 'okay'. Not great. But just 'fair'. I can say that I have NO CRAVING to use at this point. Just waiting for feel energetic again (for lack of a better word). I have read virtually EVERY post here and the standard theme is that I see the most desperate people seem to post on day 3-4. ("Life sucks". "I can't take it". "When it is going to stop").

I have been kicking myself for a decade because I had NO REASON to get into this poison. I had a great family life, a 6 figure salary professional job, awesome kids, nice, paid-for house...........I had it all. I was Rx'd some percocet for kidney stones way back (2006 or so). Took as Rx'd for a few days and felt they really didn't do anything. (Trust me, they don't touch the PAIN of kidney stones.) So, they just sat on my counter for 7 years until one day........ (SHIT, oh I wish I could time-travel back to this day and 'just say NO!'.)...........but one day at work.....it was a long day. I was tired. Maybe had a little headache (can't remember really). But for SOME reason (I'm going to say the devil for lack of anything else because I do believe these drugs are from the devil himself....they are THAT evil to take over your life and do it's best to destroy it)> Anyway......... I just took 2 pills. And lo and behold, within an hour, I was feeling great. Ready for work. Personable. Friendly. You know. And son-of-a-bitch! I swear I think 2 pills hooked me. I never stopped from there.

So day 3 is when the hell starts for most people that have posted. This certainly makes sense. All info suggests that physical withdrawals peek at this time. Many people don't seem to come back to post how things went after their 3-4 days of hell so I want to catalog my recovery in hopes it helps others/anyone.

I have tried to quit, like most others, numerous times. Never made it longer than 6 days.

This time, I have sold my shop, separated from spouse, taken a sabbatical from work (no work for 6 months.......fortunately I can afford to do this..........I wish everyone could). I've just had it and HAVE to get better.

Here how things have gone so far:

Day 1: nothing too bad. Not much energy so just lay around watching t.v. Was able to visit my parent's house and see them.

Day 2: Begin to feel 'down'. Lazy. Lethargic. No energy. (however you want to say it.........or maybe it is all 4 at once ) Can't eat anything--just ZERO appetite. Smells are already smelling weird/nasty. Any and everything smells funny. It's like your sense of smell is hyperacute. You seemed to be smelling things as well as a bloodhound dog. Eyes start watering. I had to keep an old cotton t-shirt in my bed to constantly dry my eyes. Sneezing is common. The lack of sleep the perhaps the worse for many. I mean I MIGHT get 15 minutes of sleep from 4-5am. Maybe half an hour if I was lucky. And this lack of sleep lasted at least 8-10 nights. It's actually kind of weird. Even though I wasn't sleeping, I didn't really feel 'sleepy' during the days. Just the normal tiredness which I consider not sleepy. Might not make sense. But it isn't 'tired' wanted to go to sleep. It's just like all of the energy had been SUCKED out of my body. That is the best way I can describe it.

Day 3: Yea, it REALLY kicked in now. Day 1 & 2 plus diarrhea. This diarrhea lasted me 11 days-- from day 2 to 12!! I tried to eat a little something here and there. 1/4 of a banana. 1 oreo cookie. Had to almost force them down.
As others have mentioned, my emotions went haywire (for about 7 days). I am a person that rarely cries but cry like a baby I did. The emotion just well up so bad that it is impossible not to cry (for only maybe 1-2 minutes). It begins in the chest as a huge remorse you feel and travels to your eyes. In the past I've had restless legs but never did this time??

Day 4-10. ALL the above symptoms persisted. I was a little better. If day three & four were a one on a 1-10 scale, then day 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9,10, 11, &12 are all a THREE maybe (with 10 being your favorite high and 5 being 'normal'). I tried to go out of my house. Ran to Walmart for supplies but couldn't wait to get home. Hoped no one talked me because that would only irritate me. Also, also....................the initial recover doesn't seem to be linear. Meaning, I'd feel good for 30 minutes beginning on day 7 and then, BOOM, the super crapping feeling would come back, like all of the sudden for the rest of the day. It would do like this--- brief feelings of 'everything is good now-finally...............and then. Bam! The devil sees you are feeling good and smacks you back down.

Day 11-12 are not much different. STILL diarrhea. And no to little energy still. No desire to do much of anything (yard work, work on my car......things I used to enjoy doing). I only want to lay in bed and watch Turner Classic Movies and other documentaries (anything without commercials). I have been able to eat fairly well. Normal food, I mean. Not too much of it. But a hamburger. Steak. Rolls. Things like this. I did lose about 8-10 pounds (not a bad thing really for me). And sleep...........Ah, beautiful, precisous sleep has returned. 6 hours. 8 hours. I wake up NOT feeling like a zombie with a hang-over. Waking up at 8:30 am and feel...............'okay' on day 12 & 13.

Day 13. Finally. Solid stools. Diarrhea has stopped. Took longer than I have read.......at least for me. My only real problem now is the lack of energy to do much of ANYTHING still. Hope it's coming. I'll let you all know.

I WILL NEVER GO BACK TO USING AGAIN. IT HAS COST ME ENOUGH IN LIFE. You all know that repeated story. And I refuse to repeat it.

A few things I've found.

1. I don't drink coffee but I did find 5-hr energy (or any energy drink, I suppose) to help a little. But don't expect them to make you feel like popping up and running around the room. Just a tiny help for me.
2. I began to watch You-tube videos of people doing TedTalks speaking of their recover that seem to help (show, that there was, in fact, some light at the end of the tunnel).
3. MUSIC! This, to my surprise, was a big help for me. Just listening to my fav songs on Spotify I guess gets a little endorphins going and even made me want to sing along (something I've never done before).
4. I know many people say exercise is vital and get you doing. But, while i have exercised most all my life, I could just not manage to get up and work out. Wish I could because I do believe it will help. Maybe tomorrow
5. I found it very important to be alone during this time. Just to suffer by myself. Personally, I could not have even gone this long if I had to go to work or do anything around a group of people. (I know because I tried at least 5 times to quit while still having to go to work and be around family). I know people that have done it. And I know many must continue working during withdrawal. I feel for you brothers and sisters. I've been through Parris Island Marine Corp boot camp and dental school and this has been harder than both of them combined. But I am going to show you that it IS possible as I cont. to log on and document by success.

Wellcome to Bluelight, Albert! And well done, mate, very well done.
Don't know if I did read how much were you using daily?

You are two weeks clean, you are almost in the clear. If you believe in God, thank God for your opiate not being methadone (or natural opium), otherwise you would be only starting to withdraw, even if you can't believe it.
Now, be careful, you will be emotional for a while, your brain is freewheeling, as the fact that you have read the whole lot of posts of this thread shows, also the vividness and lenght of your post. But when that brain activity finally stops, you very well could find yourself out of energy again. Even more, you could experience no pleasurable feelings for a good while. It is what people call PAWS, the post acute withdrawall syndrome. And you have to be ready to endure it.
If you aren't familiar to the phenomena, I strongly advise you to read on the subject.

 

[Señor Moreno]

I knew somebody who did 2.4g of morphine every second day. Opiate tolerance is only limited by financial resources and mental strength it seems.
Memantine is unfortunately prescription only in most western countries but can be obtained from Indian online pharmacies which I'm not allowed to link but the real ones are cheap. I have to say that I had acquired a serious tolerance to dissociatives before (which, unlike opioid tolerance, rises only very slowly and drops even slower), this might have added to the mental clarity factor but I did high dosages of memantine like more than 100mg at once and it felt perfectly safe, of course a little spun out but the only side effect my girlfriend noticed was insomnia. Be prepared for some nights up. I think one can use any dissociative, not just memantine, it just happened to be what I had around. I think the longer the duration the better, from some reports I extrapolate that most people grow bored/afraid/whatever of continuing to dose on the dissociative of choice and bail out too soon. But DXM for example (as the one which most people can acquire w/o prescription as long as they don't live in Switzerland) will induce a heavy mind and body trip at the dosages required. Some say you could also use low dosages to potentiate an opioid and possibly help with tapering but it seems only to work for some. DXM stopped working for me once I had a relevant tolerance to opioids and nowadays I just get psychotic side effects from it but I am mostly alone with this experience. Memantine is by my own experiences by far the cleanest dissociative while remaining effective at modulating opioid tolerance.

Thanks.
Yes, dissos work, I have had improvements in more than a field from ketamine, but somehow I distrust them. Or maybe I distrust me or my mind and that's why I'm afraid of dissos.

So it is avaliable but prescription only. What is it prescribed for?
And, keeping in mind I am a lifelong opi dependent but a very rare dissociative user, would you mind to advise me on some dose? You know, a dose that would work but keeping it on the conservative side of things?.
I am middle aged, high bp but kind of healthy, btw

 

[Nas47]

Plumbus, mate, I do think that 600 mgs morphine s day is indeed a serious dosage. Sure you are right that people do crazy amounts, but 600 mgs M is no joke.
So, what's the deal with that memantine you said? Do you know if It is avaliable at a regular pharmacy in a western euro country? How does it affects you and in what way? I mean, you said it is not as strong as a disso as ket, but do you feel disso? Stimulated? Nothing at all?
And how much did you taper the morphine previously?

600mg morphine daily?Been six months on 200mg daily i.v.,when quitting cold turkey(had no even a pill paracetamol,'cause was in tough rehab)...well this was way worst,than any H withdrawl for 10 years period.Acute symptoms were two weeks(H is one),insomnia-almost a month...so for me personally morphine withdrawl is worst than H....may be,'cause that is not a plant produced morphei,but fully synthetic...idk.Got through morphine withdrawls in the past(ampules.hcl) and it's nothing like that capsules m.sulphaticum.Easily can go in such program and take daily to 500mg or above officialy ....but no thanks.This is other shit,not like oldschool plant based product made from our fields in our factories

 

[Señor Moreno]

Shit, Nas, that sounds horrible

 

[Nas47]

U know what kind of places(rehabs) are these.All three most notorious are founded in Spain.They are free,they are tough and they help better,than anyone else.

 

[Psilanaut]

There is another method I tried when jumping off of Opium. I wouldn't be able to say just how much morphine but I got down to about 250mg of refined opium. If I had to ballpark it based on subjective effects, I would estimate 30mg of morphine (oral). From there, I needed around 15 tabs of Lomotil (or Motofen) to provide relief from all of the withdrawals. Next day, I dropped it to 12 tablets. I could have gone slow by dropping 1 tablet a day but I was in a rush. I started on Agmatine while maintaining at 12 tablets. After 3 days, when I could tolerate up to 1gram of Agmatine without feeling dizzy and faint, I dropped 4 tablets, down to 8. Then reduced by 2 a day and jumped off at 4 tablets.

Agmatine potentiated the opioids to a small extent but this process (and Agmatine in particular) did NOT get rid of the w/d. It did make it bearable. Agmatine 1000mg in the morning with my dose. Agmatine 500mg in the evening before a workout. And finally, Magnesium Glycinate at night. It made the process bearable but only as far as the physical aspects were concerned. The mental turmoil lasted another week or so.

There is a very old study published by UNODC that quantified the amount of diphenoxylate (R-1132) needed to suppress w/d from morphine (s.c and i.m).
For reference, each tablet of Lonotil contains 2.5mg of diphenoxylate with a miniscule amount of Atropine.
Motofen has 1mg of difenoxin and the same amount of Atropine.

Full study: Human pharmacology and addictiveness of ethyl 1-(3-cyano-3, 3-phenylpropyl)-4-phenyl-4-piperidine carboxylate hydrochloride (R-1132, Diphenoxylate)

2. When substituted for morphine for 24 hours in addicted patients, it suppressed abstinence from morphine practically completely, and the dosage equivalence was considered to be 1 mg of morphine for 1.8 mg of R-1132.

EDIT: Just to add, I did not notice *any* w/d symptoms from the lomotil until it dropped to 6 tablets. Even then, it was minimal, probably less than even codeine.

 

[Delmonte421]

Sorry if my post is inappropriate here. But I can only repeat what I've posted already in other threads. I was on 600mg/d XR morphine for two years and I kicked it without getting through withdrawal. I acknowledge that my dose wasn't as high as some people's heroin intake is but let me tell you that even just 1 day late without my precious morphine and I was crawling to the clinic to pick up my morphine (or before methadone, which was even worse if I had to decide). I experienced all the symptoms of early opioid withdrawal like restlessness, no energy/no appetite, diarrhea, weirdly amped sense of smell (this was maybe the most fascinating aspect lol) but when I decided that it was time to really kick the opioids I got none of these symptoms besides a bit of yawning and the effects of the kicking drugs I've used. First I've tapered down as far as possible with the aid of high pregabalin dosages and then took some megadoses of the dissociative (but sold as an Alzheimer treatment) memantine. The good things about memantine are the mental clarity unlike the trippiness of most dissociatives, and the long duration (72+h vs. 2-3h for ketamine). I think no more than three high (60+mgs) dosages were required to push my tolerance down to almost zero and then some light dosages to cover post-acute withdrawal. I was surprised myself how easy it was to get that stuff away. The problem is that you need to stay sober, even with tolerance reset when I found some remaining morphine XR pills, of course what does a junkie do? Relapse. Now while just 60mg had me flowing nicely but they brought withdrawal back for half a day or so. Not full-on but enough to interfere with everyday activities. Only after 6+ months I was finally able to do opioids again without triggering withdrawal.

yea I mean I have been waking up in cold sweats by just dropping from 200mg+ a day oxy to now 30-45mg every hopefully 8 hours with 1-2mg Xanax. I have been taking the IR 30's and I just woke up in a cold sweat a popped my a 3omg roxi and 2mg Xanax. I feel good and get high but I do wanna get back on subs maintenance as I have a job I can't get sick at and the gym is impossible with the cold sweats and the super sensitivity to the cold lol so I got like 20 30mg IR's and 50 OP 40mg ox's on deck to start a solo taper from IR to ER. I feel bad that im wasting all thus money and I just bought my new fiancé a rung so I really need too kick this habit for us and our future family.

 

[Señor Moreno]

U know what kind of places(rehabs) are these.All three most notorious are founded in Spain.They are free,they are tough and they help better,than anyone else.

I absolutely know them. Very though indeed, you can't even smoke tabaco, but as you say they work.
But those times for a morphine wd sound too much, it has to be what you noted, anti- natural stuff

 

[Albert E.]

Today is day 16.

Physical effects are basically gone at this point. It's basically just what I will scientifically call the "Blah's". Ha. ha. Yea. It's just a 'blah' feeling 23 1/2 hours a day. Still no motivation. Not much energy. Maybe a 2-3 of a 1-10 scale. Tolerable though. I did get out to hike a bit in a river park type area today. Actually got lost a little and ended up walking about 5 miles. Even ran about 1/2 mile. I used to run 3 miles routinely, so this was not much but it was all I could muster. This was about 3:00 pm and I was so exhausted I had to came home and take a nap at 5:00 pm (for an hour).

Guess this IS what they consider PAWS. I had hoped my mood would get better..........................at least a little better, each day. But it seems to have hit a plateau and is fairly predictable. I do sleep all night, wake feeling okay. But then it's a roller coaster. Feel good for 20 minutes and bad for 6 hours. Feel okay for 45 minutes then bad for the rest of the day. It's almost like I'm only gaining 'normal feel' like only 5 minutes more per day. Know what I mean? 20 minutes of 'good' in the a.m. and 20 minutes in the p.m. Something like this. THIS is, no doubt, what causes people to go back and re-use. It just takes sooooooo long to feel 'normal' again. OR maybe I DO feel normal but just don't know what normal is after a decade of ' high abnormal normal'. Hmmm............things that make you do 'hmmmm'.

25 min of good in the am and 25 in the pm the next day. In other words, VERY slow improvement in 'feel good-edness'. Is that a word? Well ,it is now. I just made it one.

So, the key for me is that, while it's slow going...........it IS GOING in the right direction. I'll take 5 more minutes of feel-good per day if that's all I can get as long as it's progressing in the right direction.

I look at it this way. 2 weeks is not long. It seems like an eternity when you are suffering (withdrawing). But 2 weeks is really NOTHING. Think how fast 2 weeks has gone by in your past----when you were using. It was NOTHING. And in the big scheme of things, it isn't. Hell. 2 months is really that long of a time. So, I'm taking it day by day and doing okay.

I didn't mention but I am a BIG believer in not substituting one mind-altering drug for another (Kratom, Immodium, weed, etc.....all of these are addictive as you know..... or at least I know because I've abused them all over the years). I know some can't do this cold-turkey and by God, do whatever you have to do not to lose your mind. Seems to be just going from one car wreck to another though. I'm MY experience, for me at least, cold turkey from everything seems to be the best. In the past I'd just get addicted to the thing I was trying to use to get off the 'other stuff'. Just shuffling one for another as it turned out.

I am going to post of my progress about weekly until I'm 'good'. I want to give 'closure'.

 

[plumbus-nine]

600mg morphine daily?Been six months on 200mg daily

When taking the bioavailability into calculation then are 600mg orally roughly equal to 600mg i.v.

Thanks.
Yes, dissos work, I have had improvements in more than a field from ketamine, but somehow I distrust them. Or maybe I distrust me or my mind and that's why I'm afraid of dissos.

So it is avaliable but prescription only. What is it prescribed for?
And, keeping in mind I am a lifelong opi dependent but a very rare dissociative user, would you mind to advise me on some dose? You know, a dose that would work but keeping it on the conservative side of things?.
I am middle aged, high bp but kind of healthy, btw

Dissociatives are a double edged sword, they are not physically addictive but the mental addictiveness matches that of opioids of you ask me. Still I was able to use them for many years a couple of times a month before the love of my life dumped me and I began to chase the disso dragon 24/7. I don't know how it is for other people, it appears that not everybody is susceptible to them and using them for opioid withdrawal should be pretty safe.

Memantine is unfortunately only indicated in people suffering from Alzheimers (where, funnily enough, it appears to be of pretty limited efficacy). But there are a lot of papers on pubmed proving the effectiveness against opioid addiction, anxiety and a bunch of other things. If you don't have a tolerance to dissociatives and don't mind to trip a bit you might give DXM a try, heard that this one works as well. You might have to use a beta blocker to keep blood pressure down specially with DXM but a any dissociative to some extent. Memantine didn't increase my blood pressure but it's listed as a side effect.
They did 60mg memantine (recommended dose is 20mg but remember this is in the elderly and probably with a huge safety margin) in one paper I remember, and the outcome with this dose was mixed (they tried it to reduce dosage in methadone maintenanced patients, and achieved reduction in dose was a single digit number but they also didn't try to achieve complete tolerance reset). I'm a bit wary of posting the doses I've used because I had a pre existing tolerance to NMDA antagonists. I also don't remember it too clearly but know I was way above 100mg, and it was just enough to induce some floating with eyes closed which is kind of a hallmark of dissociation in me. I would start with 60mg and work up from there as long as it feels safe and you still feel withdrawal. Remember the long half life of memantine (72+h) but also DXM (probably around 36-48h) and take it into account when measuring your doses.
If you or any of you guys tries to withdraw the disso route please share your experiences, both success and failure are important to get a bigger picture.

 

[Dr.Faust]

Hello plumbus-nine,

I read with interest your experiences of using memantine for opioid withdrawal.
I want to try this way too.
But I'm not sure if I understood you correctly.
You stopped the morphine first and treated the withdrawal with Lyrica.
How much later did you start the memantine and what was your dosage (mg/kg)?
Did you continue taking the Lyrica or did you stop taking it when the memantine started?
Did you take the memantine for 3 days and then stopped, or slowly reduced it?
I currently take 4x16mg hydromorphone per day.
Thank you for your help and I will of course share my experience here.

 

[plumbus-nine]

Hello plumbus-nine,

I read with interest your experiences of using memantine for opioid withdrawal.
I want to try this way too.
But I'm not sure if I understood you correctly.
You stopped the morphine first and treated the withdrawal with Lyrica.
How much later did you start the memantine and what was your dosage (mg/kg)?
Did you continue taking the Lyrica or did you stop taking it when the memantine started?
Did you take the memantine for 3 days and then stopped, or slowly reduced it?
I currently take 4x16mg hydromorphone per day.
Thank you for your help and I will of course share my experience here.

Well I was just tapering down with pregabalin from 600mg/d to 120mgs over the course of two months or so. This was more flawless than I'd have imagined and I'm not sure whether it was required or not.

Then I was introducing the memantine and rapidly tapered down concurrently with increasing doses of memantine, kind of replacing the morph with memantine. I felt the opioid effects going away but without inducing withdrawal. I didn't do a log so I'm not sure how many doses and how high of the memantine I did, I have a bad habit of eyeballing / taking stuff based on how much I think I need instead of sticking to dose schedules and it brought me some problems but with the mem it worked. I think it requires pretty high doses for a tolerance reset but lower ones will also help breaking the tolerance. After the high doses I continued on memantine with lower doses (I think 20-30mg/d) to avoid post acute withdrawal die maybe three to four weeks.
I wish you good luck!
Did you get the memantine from a doc or online?

 

[Dr.Faust]

I bought the memantine from an official pharmacy with a prescription.
My job is very demanding and I will reduce the hydeomorphone from December 6th. First slowly without medication. If it doesn't work anymore I'll start with the Lyrica. On December 26th I want to stop completely and take the memantine for a maximum of 10 days. Then I'll see. I have to go back to work on January 16, 2023. Then I must have made it. Otherwise I would have to adjust to methadone and live with it. Although it's not real life with opiates.

 

[plumbus-nine]

I think you might possibly be able to go straight to the memantine, I'm not sure but you could save yourself some time with that. In theory memantine should be able to reset opioid tolerance independent of the dosage as long as it's in the normal range. Depends too on how much memantine you have available. I just tapered first because I didn't believe in the memantine, otherwise I'd tried it directly.