The Old and Overgrown DOC thread (fixed)

[DexterMeth]

Don't go recommemding silly doses for people's first time

 

[fizzacyst]

Holy shit, nonono.

I'd say the dose should probably top out around 6-7mg unless you really, really know what you are doing and had more data on toxicity and side effects. I think other medication or drugs you are taking are affecting your experiences, or you have a really high tolerance or something.

If I were getting single doses from someone, and they gave me a 6mg dose when I was expecting something sane/safe/reasonable... I'm pretty sure I'd cause them serious physical harm for it.

 

[B9]

you need a higher dose. and i personally find it a lot more stimulating than LSD, so when reducing your opiate intake, you're naturally gonna be more irritable and pissed off..at least i would.

I personally like LSD better..good clean L that is. But DOC is definatel a great quality chem. Then again, i will probably say that about any DOx drug :D

You are kidding ! look i've taken a few psych amphetamines and i know that feeling i get from the amphet stimulation is one that i cannot enjoy so upping the dose will not be on my agenda. It is clearly a powerful drug(btw i felt first alert within 15 minutes) and it certainly lasts (could still detect its presence 30 hours after) but it gives no "pleasure" it is emotionally dead. Now i agree that if i took a higher dose i'd be on a fairly vivid trip, a trip with no delight , no spirit just a big tour of hallucinations with an uncomfortable feeling to go with it. Why would i bother when i can take LSD and feel beauty, see beauty and inherently understand beauty.
Basically of the psych amphets i'll use DOM again the rest i'll not bother with coz there is nothing there that i've not experienced before and there is no pleasure to be had, which is really my main motivation for taking drugs.
I am in all honesty completely baffled by the "hype" (not only me either) put out by some people on this board about DOC, comparing it to LSD is a ridiculous assertion. The only conclusion i can draw is that either there is a vested interest at work here or that the LSD it's being compared to is not in fact LSD! Of course it could be us who are wrong, our combined 40 years of drug taking has perhaps left us so muddled that we don't know what we're talking about.8)
I also think that this compound has the very real possibility of shining an unwanted spotlight on the RC scene when the idiots start with the heroic doses and the emergency wards and psych wards start to fill up with folk telling tales of this "everlasting new acid" , the idea of an anxiety attack on a high dose of this stuff(especially for a novice) is rather worrying.

zophen.

 

[fizzacyst]

People react differently to all these drugs. DOC does seem to be hyped a bit, but all new drugs where the majority of its users really enjoy it will have that problem.

I think everyone compares it to LSD because its one of the most hyped up drugs out there. Everyone is always acid this, acid that, acid's so wonderful, nothing's beter than acid. Everyone hears that over and over and over for years and years. Its sticks in your head.

That, and both DOC and LSD have similar durations as far as the primary effects, and I'd say both tend to have a strong visual element for most users. Lots have taken LSD. Not as many have taken drugs like DOM, DOI, DOB, etc.. where you could perhaps make more finely detailed comparisons.

I like DOC quite a bit, but I can't say its the best drug ever or anything like that. A lot of that has to do with the long-ass trailing comedown, which I don't really care for. If got 12 hours and then could sleep pretty soon after, like the way LSD affects me (10-12h), then I'd consider them about on par with each other.

However, I don't hold any particular fascination or nostalgic attachment to LSD, and I don't get the spun-out overstimulation from DOC that some report.

 

[fizzacyst]

^ fizzacyst could you do a brief (though understandably personal) comparison of DOC to 2C-E in terms of 'depth' and visual or mental alteration?

I B

I hate to go into any detail, as its been a couple years since I've taken 2C-E... and I was tripping very frequently and smoking ludicrous amounts of pot, so my memories of some of my drug experiences are fuzzed.

I'd they are similar in terms of "richness" or "depth". By that I mean the complexity of thoughts the drugs would inspire, how deeply I could become absorbed into the experience (or "lose myself" in the drug), how my perception of reality was altered and whether or not I could tell whether something was drug induced or not, and my personal enjoyment.

They are both very visual drugs for me, particularly at more involving doses. 18mg 2c-e and 6mg DOC both produced extreme visual distortions, and very complicated thoughts.

With the 2c-e, it was more introspective and personal. I could think all about me and my life and connections to other people and things. I could examine them in great emotional detail. With DOC, it was more abstracted. I could examine things in similar (and often deeper) detail, but I was very detached from it all. Thinking about unpleasant memories didn't really bother me so much. I saw them more like blocks stacked in the wall of my mind.. just another piece of me. Not good, not bad, just who I was. 2c-e made some of those things bubble up to the surface to the point it was almost like re-experiencing some memories. Major shroom doses will very reliably force this on me.

I wouldn't go out of my way to get more 2c-e. If a friend had some, I'd see about setting up some kind of trade/purchase to stash for some day in the future, but I prefer the DOC. Perhaps that might change with more exposure to both, I dont know.

 

[B9]

Now then oddly enough i personally quite like 2ce and although it has a pronounced bodyload i find it dissapates at @3 hours whereas DOxx (excepting DOM) just go on and on, also the bodyload is of a different nature .


zophen

 

[DexterMeth]

i really enjoyed reading your insights in the last few posts zophen. I wholeheartedly agree with you.
Same to you fizz.

 

[Zippycut]

Ive found that my DOC tolerance has gone up quite quickly.

Even waiting over a week between doses seems to have no effect on the reduction of tolerance. Two days ago I took 5mg in the morning (10am) and experienced extremely mild effects until I smoked a joint at about 1pm, at which point closed eye visuals became much more intense, and I noticed some open-eye fractaling.

I redosed 5mg orally at 8pm, and 5more mg rectally at 1030. (I know this sounds irresponsible, but I have a moderate deal of experience with my own body and seem to negotiate its limits effectively. I will likely get flamed for this , and I totally understand that. Taking this much DOC is not particularly responsible. It turned out fine though, and I still maintain my self-awareness to be a good regulator of taking care of my body.) I tripped nicely into the night, and though stronger than the day's experience, was still not nearly as mindblowing as the last really potent shroom trip I took. Smoking a joint at around 1am again heightened the experience, and I had a thoroughly enjoyable trip while stoned, but as the high faded so did the trip.


I know this is an absurd amount compared to other posts, but I seem to have a high natural tolerance. Smoking weed during the trip heightened the effects a great deal.

I did have a great time with a bag of marshmallows, and decided to always include them when I trip. If you start to become uncomfortable and anticipate a bad trip, just grab some marshmallows. It's impossible to feel down while eating/playing with marshmallows. hahah.



I am thinking of tripping again tomorrow night for new years, but I am for the most part against it, as this is an extremely large amount of DOC in a moderately small amount of time. The effects may quite possible be deleterious to my well being. Considering my experiences at these dosages though, it seems my tolerance is naturally high. I am astonished at the reports I've read at 3-4mg, as my first experience (a month ago) at that dosage barely produced any noticeable effects other than an inability to sleep until around 5 in the morning. I slept at a similar point the night I did the aforementioned 10mg (15mg total for a 24 hour period), and felt fine in the morning.

It would be most shameful to end up being one of the first DOC-induced hospital visits, however.

 

[Zippycut]

Tolerance to doc builds rapidly.

A research monkey has done the following dosages.
1mg
2mg
3mg
5mg
8mg
13mg
17mg
22mg

All dosages were done within a week of each other but spaced out at least 3 days apart.

I can confirm this. The last potent dose my research monkey (cough) ingested was 15mg over a span of 24 hours, and was similar to last week's 8mg dose

 

[fastandbulbous]

Zippycut - are you taking any medicines (prescribed or OTC)?

 

[yaesutom]

one that i cannot enjoy so upping the dose will not be on my agenda. It is clearly a powerful drug(btw i felt first alert within 15 minutes) and it certainly lasts (could still detect its presence 30 hours after) but it gives no "pleasure" it is emotionally dead. Now i agree that if i took a higher dose i'd be on a fairly vivid trip, a trip with no delight , no spirit just a big tour of hallucinations with an uncomfortable feeling to go with it. Why would i bother when i can take LSD and feel beauty, see beauty and inherently understand beauty.
Basically of the psych amphets i'll use DOM again the rest i'll not bother with coz there is nothing there that i've not experienced before and there is no pleasure to be had, which is really my main motivation for taking drugs.
I am in all honesty completely baffled by the "hype" (not only me either) put out by some people on this board about DOC, comparing it to LSD is a ridiculous assertion. The only conclusion i can draw is that either there is a vested interest at work here or that the LSD it's being compared to is not in fact LSD! Of course it could be us who are wrong, our combined 40 years of drug taking has perhaps left us so muddled that we don't know what we're talking about.

Hmm - well I am DEFINITELY interested, and i hope, to be able to taste DOM some day .

There's another BLer who flew into town recently and finally tried out DOC. He's a *very* experienced "acid head" (hehheh) and I thought he would be the first person finally to compare LSD, DOM, DOB, DOI, and DON (and well a bunch more) to DOC.

He is one of those who will always say "acid is always #1, nothing can compare" etc. Saw all the DOC reports, and said what a bunch of bullshit! He's a strict, uh.. ACID IS THE BEST! kind of person...

Well uh, he took 6mg DOC one night and just told me "wow.. " and, "i'm a believer now" hehehe..

He said it was very much like DOM, but possibly better (he'll get on here and write up a report some day (when he gets back home). So i'll be curious as he can compare it to everything (including DON).

Now recently I took 800mcg of LSD, really fucking CLEAN acid . I was fully saturated, I find LSD much more "useful" - I was in a state of openness to everything and everyone around me, where I could selectively delete or potentiate any aspect of my personality, living in the "Here & Now". Also that amazing body fry/feeling from acid is wonderful (and good for sex i think).

I never got 'ego death' from the LSD, I mean.. I was totally "trippin' ballz" yet, tripping to the point where if i needed to drive a car, or even .. go to work, talk to any sober people, etc, i could do it! But a person who isn't as experienced as me or hasn't tripped before, would be in a serious state of re-examining themselves and reality for many hours..

That LSD trip lasted a strong 12 hours, a +++, but kept on going for over 24 hours - no problem sleeping, and ~36 hours later waking up (had some nice dreams..) was STILL tripping mildly.

---
So while I think LSD is superior, definitely, more "useful" etc etc, i gotta say i think DOC goes *way* deeper into the mind. DOC has uncovered more 'truths' to reality to me (and friends) than LSD ever has or any other psychedelic drug. For me.. being an experienced tripper, LSD is more 'useful' to me, at any dose it seems, to be out somewhere doing something with myself where i'm able to unlock the blockages that are built up from learning all my life and use LSD as a tool to do things that would be normally hard for me to do - and then hopefully learn from that and use what i learned in my daily life.

DOC is incredible. It unlocks a lot of the same doors as LSD but even more doors. At the higher doses, where that "vortex thingamafucker" shows up, i'm sorry but i do not think any dose of LSD or .. really, most mixes of a whole bunch of psychedelics thrown all in together, can do that. --

I've only seen a glimpse of the vortex fractal thingie, almost got sucked in but thankfully not because of where I was at during the time. I was told by this girl friend of mine who DID get sucked in, and the things she had to say were mind blowing. Time stopping (or more like the same 1/2 second high resolution snapshot of reality gets caught in a loop), walikng around the house in the dark in this time loop as the brain automatically fills in the steps up the stairs like lego blocks, going back to ancient egypt and seeing how we were just a simple computer simulation run by aliens from a higher dimentional universe yada yada...

Well i'd like to explore this vortex thing someday, would require me taking *at least* 6-7mg DOC and definitely a place to stay for the duration in a good setting where I can't be bothered by 'sober activities'.

ahh.. well i've got to go, and get off this god damn addicting comptuer now...

imma eat a fuckload of acid for new years eve

 

[vaka]

How would you perform a rectal DOC dose? I assume you would use a syringe (without the needle of course). Should you perform an enema first (to allow more surface area on the rectal walls for the DOC to be absorbed)?

 

[Zippycut]

Zippycut - are you taking any medicines (prescribed or OTC)?

Nope. I've been smoking a lot of weed, so the past few times I've had to use my asthma inhaler once or twice, but not regularly.

 

[gloggawogga]

The last potent dose my research monkey (cough) ingested was 15mg over a span of 24 hours, and was similar to last week's 8mg dose

That was probably more the immediate tolerance over the 24 hours than tolerance from the 8mg trip. Tolerance to psychedelics develops as soon as you take the first dose. When you take 5mg at T+0, 5mg at T+10 hours, and 5mg at T+12 hours, its no surprise at all that you are going to get a significantly reduced from the latter two doses. In general, if you take a booster dose of a psychedelic after the first dose has plateaued, you are likely going to get a reduced effect, because tolerance has already set in. I doubt your 8mg trip a week ago had much to do with it other than maybe psychological tolerance, which would have made the initial 5mg trip emotionally unimpressive a week after an 8mg trip.

 

[B9]

How would you perform a rectal DOC dose? I assume you would use a syringe (without the needle of course). Should you perform an enema first (to allow more surface area on the rectal walls for the DOC to be absorbed)?

Enema wouldn't hurt so if you can be bothered do it. Next dissolve it in water, say 5ml of liquid and then squirt it up your arse. Personally i wouldn't bother .

zophen

 

[fastandbulbous]

I doubt your 8mg trip a week ago had much to do with it other than maybe psychological tolerance, which would have made the initial 5mg trip emotionally unimpressive a week after an 8mg trip.

Actually, some of the reports about DOC seem to indicate that the tolerance with DOC is longer lasting (probably due to long half life), which would mean that 8mg taken the previous week would still have an effect on tolerance issues.

 

[gloggawogga]

^^^

Yeah but based on what he said I'd say taking the booster doses at T+10 and T+12 saw alot more tolerance from the 5mg he took that day, not the 8mg he took a week ago. Boosting at T+10 hours is too late, and a waste.

 

[fizzacyst]

Is there any animal toxicity data on DOC that anyone knows of? I'm a bit concerned about the redosing thing with some of these very potent drugs. Not so much with 15mg-- but we all know someone is going to try to go through 100mg or so over 24-36 hours at some point.

 

[Zippycut]

I insufflated 10mg about an hour ago, and holy mother of christ, is that way more efficient a method of ingestion than rectally administering it.


Amazing OEVs: trails, color shifting, lots of distortion and distortive effects.
The trails are particularly fun. I wish I had a ping pong table.



I had been under the supposition that rectal absorption and insufflating were similar levels of effectiveness, but clearly I was wrong. haha.

 

[Blowmonkey]

I had been under the supposition that rectal absorption and insufflating were similar levels of effectiveness, but clearly I was wrong. haha.

I'm glad you're still able to laugh about it. Because when I first looked at your post I was actually a bit shocked. 10 mg is one hell of a dose. Even rectally administered it's about equal to 20 mg oral. Insufflated it's roughly ~3 times as potent, though it varies, I don't know how it exactly is for this chemical. You should be glad to be okay.

Next time try to double-check the dosages.