the official debate thread: no holds barred-> which genre sux/rules?

On a different note...
"Happy Hardcore is largely absolute fucking dogshit". Discuss.
If I ever find the prick that stole the hook from 'Smokebelch II' and built it into a HHC track I won't be responsible for my actions (I have a notion it was Anabolic Frolic - at least he's guilty of playing the abomination).
 
by plastic I don't mean its bad music....
I just think its not a very complex form of electronic music... alot of techno is made from very simple "plastic" sounds...
I have heard some great techno, but that was not my point...
alot of trance (goa) is very plastic aswell, but I love it...
I just like it when effort is made to create very sonically complex electronic music (its why I loved the chemical brothers for so long.. also a reason why I like jungle too)
 
One mo shot in here.......HHC sux badly in my opinion. I HATE IT HATE IT HATE IT! K, it's out of my system! To all u HHC advocates..........i respect it, just don't ever ever ever ever ever ever ever play it in my presence......that is if u r around me! Sorry it's just so cheesy and who can dance that damn fast anyway?
- J Flip -
------------------
"If it ain't bout some JUNGLE, then it ain't bout me!"
 
Progressive-tech-step-country-with-a-little-bit-of-evil-and-dark-polka-sprinkled-with-getto-booty-merenga.
Sarah and Digwood's latest mix is out.
Fukin bangin' man.
Check it out.
------------------
Yeah, but it's got lint on it.......
 
I like house, when i wanna really bust my ass on the floor, but i LOVE trance when your roll hits that wave stage, and the music slows down just before the dj buildsit back up and pushes it over the edge....
smile.gif
WHEEEE
smile.gif

I can't seem to get intojungle or D and B yet, maybe cuz i like the technical sounds and wierd effects of trance, acid and psy to specify...
------------------
"...so while you point your finger, someone else is judging you..." Bob Marley
 
Trance is "play-with-your-glowsticks" music, not proper party music and HHC is a joke that mushroomed out of control.
[This message has been edited by PhysicalGraffiti (edited 19 July 2000).]
 
Proper techno is the most sonically (and technically) complex electronic music out there. And that's just a fact. It's the main reason why so many people end up getting obsessively into techno after going through a lot of other types of (not always electronic) music.
Listen to blah, blah, blah (spouts off long list of producers that Yashu is highly unlikely to bother checking out) and you'll see what I mean. Or maybe you won't. But if you think that an Oakenfold or Sasha or BT (or Chemical Brothers) track is more sonically complex because it is full of lush synths, and that a Mauritzio or Steve O'Sullivan or Claude Young track is plastic because it appears minimal on first listening and is devoid of warm 'human' sounds...well, you're not really listening to the techno tracks.
 
HHC is tha shit i mean it is tha best muzik to listen to while you are rolling. i mean it just puts you in such a good mood. and for tha record i can dance that fast. and also for tha record trance sux. it all sounds tha same. just a bunch of weird noises. i need funk in my muzik. funk is just in my veins.
------------------
"You mean we're smokin dog shit man??"
 
Hawtin's set at Twilo underlined the fact that minimal techno (and minimal drum and bass) is end-of-the-journey music. It's no use for neophytes; this is the shit you get into after you've been through all the other stuff, after it's sensitized your hearing to the point where the micro-tweaks and infra-nuances are exhilirating. (Maybe that's why techno DJs always go on about being educational in their playing-- they're really training your perceptions, giving you the acuity to hear infinities in a grain of sound). Another way of making this point: if this stuff had been standard 'rave' fare back in the day, I would have never gotten sucked into the culture. It's too subtle to make converts, for that you need something more blatant and crude. Consumed is the supremely accomplished end-point of a trajectory--the swan-song of minimal techno?
-Simon Reynolds '98
If anyone does not who Simon Reynolds is he is writer/culture critic from the U.K. His book Generation Ecstasy is widley believed to be the book to read about rave and dance music culture.
The point I think he's trying to make here is that Techno may sound dull and simple to you , but thats because your not hearing it like me.
 
by plastic I don't mean its bad music....
I just think its not a very complex form of electronic music... alot of techno is made from very simple "plastic" sounds...
I have heard some great techno, but that was not my point...
alot of trance (goa) is very plastic aswell, but I love it...
I just like it when effort is made to create very sonically complex electronic music (its why I loved the chemical brothers for so long.. also a reason why I like jungle too)
I'm sorry, but to put it bluntly, you don't know what the fuck you're talking about. Goa (PROPER Goa) and techno are some of the most complex forms of electronic music. Drum n' Bass is also complex, but Chemical Brothers?!? Not even in the same LEAGUE.
 
LiQuid_rolls- There is absolutly not one iota of funk in HHC. I repeat no funk. There is nothing funky about a distorted kick drum at 180bpm,bad piano riffs, and saccharine female vocals.Go listen to some James Brown, and learn the meaning of the word funk.
 
A fuckin MEN, JAMES BROWN IS MAD FUNKY!
If u want some funky shit......George Clinton and the PFunk Allstars....now that is FUNK!
- J Flip -
------------------
"If it ain't bout some JUNGLE, then it ain't bout me!"
[This message has been edited by JFlip (edited 19 July 2000).]
 
ok...
do you even know how electronic sounds are made?
take a sin wave... a beep at say 5000hz
now apply a few mathmatical algorythms and you have a new sound.
run that through a 2nd order filter and you have another sound.
add some reverb to it, maybe change its pitch over time, or adjust its attack and falloff...
what you still have after this is a mathmatically perfect sound... THIS DOES NOT MAKE IT COMPLEX...
a complex sound has a human touch to it.. something analog...
this is why I like jungle... #1 its spun, so right there is your analog element, imperfections are introduced into the music that way. Clicks, wow and flutter, inperfections in the vinyl.. Samples from real beats and instruments are made. Alot of analog valve and distortion filters are used...
For a sound to be "complex" it can't be so mathmatically perfect...
py plastic I mean a perfect clean digital sound... even artificially introduced distortion still sountd "plastic" if not done right.
goa is made completely digitally... listen to a hallucinogen album, or some infected mushroom.... each beat and each tap, every kick, and every bassline is a mathematically perfect sound. The chemical brothers sample ALOT.... so naturally alot of their music is going to sound more "human". They use analog devices too... along with digital. Their new album has a techno element to it.. ("orange wedge" from surrender)
thats what I mean when I say it sounds plastic.
I never said it was bad, its electronic music, and it was created electronically... I like goa, I like some techno....
I was just making a point.
 
alot of people think that stuff is funk apparently....
I went to one rave with a "funk room"
I was expecting song funky sounding jungle, or acid jazz or something.....
the same annoying distorted kick drum beat playing all night in there gave me a headache...
 
a complex sound has a human touch to it...something analog...
I don't fully agree with this...a complex sound certainly has to have a human touch, otherwise it is just random noise - this can in itself be used to make music (see everything by Pole, and a lot of Pan_sonic stuff - although maybe the fact that they have taken noise and built music around it means that it is no longer random noise?) - but a sound absolutely does not have to be analogue in order to be soulful, complex or funky. A lot of the sounds that you hear in trance come straight from a sampler, keyboard, drum machine or bass synth without being manipulated by the producer laying down the track. A good techno producer will instead be striving to create new sounds, i.e. - to make music using sounds that no one has ever heard before (usually by distorting existing ones into something new)..I think this is much more of a human touch (it requires talent for a start) than pressing the 'drum roll' and 'crescendo' buttons on a keyboard.
As for analogue sounds not appearing in techno: All of Jeff Mills' (excellent) Purposemaker stuff is built around breaks and samples from 70s disco and batacuda. Many of my favorite techno tracks from the last year had plenty of analogue sounds:
- Random Noise Generation 'Instrument of Change' (guitars)
- Layo and Bushwacka! 'Deep South' (gospel choir)
- Technasia 'Force' (vocals)
- Rolando ‘Revenge of the Jaguar - Mad Mike mix’ (strings)
With respect to the chemical Brothers...they have always had a mix of influences, but they were a lot more techno five years ago than they are now. 'Out of control' sounds like trance to me...'Song to the siren' like techno.
[This message has been edited by basic (edited 19 July 2000).]
 
I gotta say this..
If you think minimal techno is the most complex form of EDM, you sir are on crack.
Psytrance is by far the most complex genre of EDM, hands down. The layering is more than any other form, the complexity of each melody is ridiculous, and all the weird ambient squeeky noise that somehow fits in the music adds to the complexity.
Minimal music is usually garbage for simple ears. Not always but more so than not. Minimal tracks take hours to make, while psytrance takes months and months of work. Ok thats it.
[This message has been edited by PSYI0N (edited 19 July 2000).]
 
well....
howabout you guys suggest some good techno for me to add to my collection...
techno has never been my strong point in the world of music (I'm a trance-head)...
I want to hear what I apprently am missing here...
I have never been against trying out a new sound... I like electronic music because I look at it as not trying to emmulate other intruments but to make a sound of its own...
how about i fuel another argument to get off this one..
why do so many people like house? seriously?
I'm ot saying the many "great" house DJs have no talent, they have plenty.. but I might say they are wasting it on that damn house music...
I'm here in houston... and the one thing I have noticed is every party held here has a house room (usually the main room)... Its harder house, but still....
and a jungle/DnB room...
But I have yet to go to a party with a dedicated trance room... How come trance gets no respect here?
 
GreatYashu- Because House is where it all started. That Trance you're listening to, guess what? Thats House!!!! House (which in turn sprung from Disco), gave birth to it all. Theres nothing better than some funky Tech-House to get one dancing IMO.
 
okay, some good techno:
records by ritchie hawtin aka plastikman, chris liebing, lower number audio releases, adam beyer, thomas krome, joel mull, stuff on drumcode. thats some good, driving, drum driven stuff.
my personal favorite is acid techno, such as: chris liberator, stuff on havok, dj misjah, dave the drummer, stuff on stay up forever/smitten/cluster (its all the same crew of producers)
as far as goa being more complex than techno, well... its complexity is more obvious, but i have to agree with earlier posts when i say that minimal techno is very subtle. i love both, but their just complex in different ways.
 
personally i love drum & bass and goa.
but when i really want to hear some funky shit i'll listen to DJ Dan's Funk the System (yes, the pink CD).
 
Top