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AADD Moderators: Tronica
The Official BL Cricket Thread
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0ff1cer_ch0ps
Bluelighter
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fuck he has turned his game around since the ashes...
really taking the step forward and saying FUCK YOU after everyone who wanted his head!
really taking the step forward and saying FUCK YOU after everyone who wanted his head!
Infinite Jest
Bluelight Crew
Smith really had to give the Aussies a chance of winning, in order to give SA a chance. I tend to agree with you guys that he batted too long in the first innings. Or not so much too long, but didn't score fast enough. More aggression then would have meant that he would have had more time in the second innings.
That said, it nearly worked out right for them - he must have thought SA had a real good chance when the Aussies were 220-odd for 7 in the 1st innings.
Good work by Ponting though
I just got back from the NZ-Lanka one-dayer. Kiwis won again, that's four in a row after losing 7 or 8 in a row. The local (Wellington) boys did well, there was a decent crowd and no real trouble. There's been a bit of talk about our crowds being out of control and too drunk, and some heavy security as a result, also talk of only selling low-alcohol beer (of course the real trouble-makers are smuggling in hip flasks, not paying 5 bucks for a beer). To be fair, the crowds had been bad in the past, especially against Australia 
, but seem to be improving (e.g. Symonds got a standing ovation for his 156 in the match last month; Vaas got the same for 5-37 today).
On the racism issue, and hopefully without bringing too much politics into it: I've noticed that Aussies tend to casually use terms which might be regarded as racist in other countries. e.g, a lot of you talk about "wogs", and don't seem to mean this as a racist term - but in most other countries it would be. I'm NOT saying that you're racists, or are trying to be racists - just that it might appear that way. So basically, I think I agree with what beech was saying about the use of words like 'kaffir' - it is offensive to the person you're saying it to.
That said, it nearly worked out right for them - he must have thought SA had a real good chance when the Aussies were 220-odd for 7 in the 1st innings.
Good work by Ponting though
I just got back from the NZ-Lanka one-dayer. Kiwis won again, that's four in a row after losing 7 or 8 in a row
. The local (Wellington) boys did well, there was a decent crowd and no real trouble. There's been a bit of talk about our crowds being out of control and too drunk, and some heavy security as a result, also talk of only selling low-alcohol beer (of course the real trouble-makers are smuggling in hip flasks, not paying 5 bucks for a beer). To be fair, the crowds had been bad in the past, especially against Australia , but seem to be improving (e.g. Symonds got a standing ovation for his 156 in the match last month; Vaas got the same for 5-37 today). On the racism issue, and hopefully without bringing too much politics into it
: I've noticed that Aussies tend to casually use terms which might be regarded as racist in other countries. e.g, a lot of you talk about "wogs", and don't seem to mean this as a racist term - but in most other countries it would be. I'm NOT saying that you're racists, or are trying to be racists - just that it might appear that way. So basically, I think I agree with what beech was saying about the use of words like 'kaffir' - it is offensive to the person you're saying it to.
All I have to say Simon is, and it is somthing you will totally agree with:
HIGHEST ONE DAY RUN CHASE EVER
And scoring 320 versus 322 in the second game of the series (oh so painful).
My money is on us (New Zealand) for the next World Cup. As much as Aussies like to write us off, for the population we have, we have a fantastic team.
Go Kiwis!
(On a sidenote: That is a massive total to chase, and if anyone posts that sort of score, you would normally expect it is game over. So it is a HUGE achievement to almost do it twice, and successfully do it once.)
The only thing I can say is - McCullum and Fulton open, Vincent at three, Fleming at four, Astle/Oram at five, Styris at six, Cairns at seven, Vettori at eight, etc.
HIGHEST ONE DAY RUN CHASE EVER
And scoring 320 versus 322 in the second game of the series (oh so painful).
My money is on us (New Zealand) for the next World Cup. As much as Aussies like to write us off, for the population we have, we have a fantastic team.
Go Kiwis!
(On a sidenote: That is a massive total to chase, and if anyone posts that sort of score, you would normally expect it is game over. So it is a HUGE achievement to almost do it twice, and successfully do it once.)
The only thing I can say is - McCullum and Fulton open, Vincent at three, Fleming at four, Astle/Oram at five, Styris at six, Cairns at seven, Vettori at eight, etc.
Infinite Jest
Bluelight Crew
^^
well, you only just beat us 2-1, and there was about a foot difference between us winning and losing the series (e.g., the distance by which Vettori was run out in the last over at Wellington). And we didn't have our captain, or the best strike bowler in ODI history was out injured. [Shane Bond, has the best ratio of balls to wickets ever].
I stilll think the Aussies are the best team, but on neutral ground we have a chance. It will be interesting to watch the Aussies progress over the next two years - it seems as though they may have peaked, but it'll be interesting to see if they can bring some good new players through in time for the world cup.
Aussies to win, NZ to make the semis along with England. Lanka, India, and the Windies to be nowhere.
THR:
Vincent
Fleming
Fulton
Astle
Styris
Cairns
Oram
McCullem
Vettori
Bond
Mills
How, Patel, Franklin, Ryder, McMillan competing for a place in the team. I like Iain O'Brien too, but that might just be total Wellington parochialism. I have to say, it's a nice feeling when you're actually making a positive choice between e.g. McMillan and Astle or Fulton, rather than putting in player x because we're desperate.
well, you only just beat us 2-1, and there was about a foot difference between us winning and losing the series (e.g., the distance by which Vettori was run out in the last over at Wellington). And we didn't have our captain, or the best strike bowler in ODI history was out injured. [Shane Bond, has the best ratio of balls to wickets ever].
I stilll think the Aussies are the best team, but on neutral ground we have a chance. It will be interesting to watch the Aussies progress over the next two years - it seems as though they may have peaked, but it'll be interesting to see if they can bring some good new players through in time for the world cup.
Aussies to win, NZ to make the semis along with England. Lanka, India, and the Windies to be nowhere.
THR:
Vincent
Fleming
Fulton
Astle
Styris
Cairns
Oram
McCullem
Vettori
Bond
Mills
How, Patel, Franklin, Ryder, McMillan competing for a place in the team. I like Iain O'Brien too, but that might just be total Wellington parochialism. I have to say, it's a nice feeling when you're actually making a positive choice between e.g. McMillan and Astle or Fulton, rather than putting in player x because we're desperate.
Infinite Jest
Bluelight Crew
^^
Re-read it. I said "Lanka, India and the Windies to be nowhere". I only picked three teams for the semis, so that might have confused ya 
Let's expand:
Aussies will surely make the semis [I pick 'em to win]
Kiwis will make semis
I said England would make semis, but you're probably right - Pakistan and SA instead.
Sri Lanka and India won't do well (especially on hard pitches away from home).
Obviously Zim, Bangladesh are shit.
England would be about 5th pick.
Wow, the Kiwis actually do have a pretty good chance
Re-read it
. I said "Lanka, India and the Windies to be nowhere". I only picked three teams for the semis, so that might have confused ya Let's expand:
Aussies will surely make the semis [I pick 'em to win]
Kiwis will make semis
I said England would make semis, but you're probably right - Pakistan and SA instead.
Sri Lanka and India won't do well (especially on hard pitches away from home).
Obviously Zim, Bangladesh are shit.
England would be about 5th pick.
Wow, the Kiwis actually do have a pretty good chance
I think the Aussies are still a fairly large step ahead of the rest in terms of One Dayers. When looking at some of the results when teams have got near the Aussies you also need to look at the team Australia has fielded with quality players being rested in various series. Obviously Australia's days of completely dominating international cricket in both forms of the game are coming to an end as McGrath and Warne wont play for ever and obviously Warne doesn't play one dayers and McGrath is rested whenever its thought not essential for him to play. Will be interesting to see if Warne makes himself available for the World Cup.
Beech
Beech
KemicalBurn
Bluelight Crew
0ff1cer_ch0ps said:
and? he's still a fucking shite captain...which has nothing to do with his batting abilities 8)
^^^I wouldn't go as far as saying he is a shit captain. He just isn't as good as Waugh or Taylor were. He is still learning his craft, captaining the Australian team is his first real captaincy gig. He didn't get a chance to learn by captaining Tasmania. I think he is quite a good captain in 1 Day Cricket but is still learning in the Test arena. Everyone makes mistakes, including captain, hopefully he will learn from his and become better.
I think another thing we need to remember is the great captains of the past didn't start out as brilliant captains. Alan Border didn't even want the job when it was given to him and by his own admission he was not a born leader. When he started as Australian captain, he had barely any leaderships skills, no idea on setting fields but was not the sort of guy to ask others advice. All he could do was lead by example and perform well in a time when Australian wins were few and far between. He eventually grew into the role and learnt what he was doing and learnt from his mistakes which there were plenty of.
Steve Waugh was another great captain but he made some of the same mistakes that Ponting has made, with sometimes poor field settings and so on. Waugh was lucky though that he was captain of (possibly) the best team ever in the history of cricket so his mistakes weren't as dire. Waugh did learn from his mistakes though and went on to be our most successful captain (obviously largely due to the quality of team and lack of oposition). For my money Mark Taylor was our best captain with excellent field settings, smart declarations (which waugh also always made) and great leadership. He is largely responsible for the professionalism and attitude of the champion team that Waugh inherrited.
Beech
I think another thing we need to remember is the great captains of the past didn't start out as brilliant captains. Alan Border didn't even want the job when it was given to him and by his own admission he was not a born leader. When he started as Australian captain, he had barely any leaderships skills, no idea on setting fields but was not the sort of guy to ask others advice. All he could do was lead by example and perform well in a time when Australian wins were few and far between. He eventually grew into the role and learnt what he was doing and learnt from his mistakes which there were plenty of.
Steve Waugh was another great captain but he made some of the same mistakes that Ponting has made, with sometimes poor field settings and so on. Waugh was lucky though that he was captain of (possibly) the best team ever in the history of cricket so his mistakes weren't as dire. Waugh did learn from his mistakes though and went on to be our most successful captain (obviously largely due to the quality of team and lack of oposition). For my money Mark Taylor was our best captain with excellent field settings, smart declarations (which waugh also always made) and great leadership. He is largely responsible for the professionalism and attitude of the champion team that Waugh inherrited.
Beech
I don't think you can really say that Australia hasn't been fielding their best time. McGrath hasn't been bowling that well (or at least, taking wickets), so I don't see him as too much of a loss given that the replacement strike bowlers are pretty damn good as it is.
For me, I stand with my prediction - NZ to win.
For me, I stand with my prediction - NZ to win.
^^^You don't rate McGrath? The bloke is considered the best fast bowler in the world. Just because a bowler isn't taking wickets doesn't mean they aren't bowling well. I would much prefer a bowler who sends down 10 overs for 25 runs and no wickets than a bowler who sends down 10 overs and gets figures of say 2/50. Bowling is as much about partnerships as batting is. If 1 bowler is able to keep things tight and dry up the runs then often the bowler at the other end who may not be as good benefits as the batsmen tries to score from him and is more chance of getting out. Ideally you have 2 guys bowling that keep things tight and they both benefit and get wickets. McGrath and Warne bowling in tandem is a classic example. Both keep it very tight and pick up wickets because batsmen are unable to score at either end.
I think a fair indication of how seriously Australia takes a series is reflected in the team selected. When selectors want to rest McGrath and Gilly in a series then thats a pretty fair indication they aren't too fussed about things.
I think the aussie team is only going to get stronger leading up to the world cup. Hayden has to be pushing for selection at the expense of Katich, the middle order is working itself out with Hussey in top form, bowlers like Lee and Bracken are contributing with the bat and ball and there would have to be a strong chance that Warne will come out of retirement to play in the world cup.
Beech
I think a fair indication of how seriously Australia takes a series is reflected in the team selected. When selectors want to rest McGrath and Gilly in a series then thats a pretty fair indication they aren't too fussed about things.
I think the aussie team is only going to get stronger leading up to the world cup. Hayden has to be pushing for selection at the expense of Katich, the middle order is working itself out with Hussey in top form, bowlers like Lee and Bracken are contributing with the bat and ball and there would have to be a strong chance that Warne will come out of retirement to play in the world cup.
Beech
I never said I didn't rate McGrath. I do recognise his abilities and his record speaks for itself. What I was attempting to say was you have so many top quality replacement players that while he is a loss, the replacements you have are equally as formidable (alhough not as experienced).
Now I don't think it's fair to, in typical Australian style, make excuses for losing a game or having a series closer than you expected. While you may have been a player down (Gilly did play, afterall), we didn't have Fleming for the first two, nor did we have Bond, our main strike bowler.
But we're not going around beating that drum - you need to play with players you have and it is only fair that players deserve a rest.
On another note, well done RSA tonight - I much pleasing victory
Now I don't think it's fair to, in typical Australian style, make excuses for losing a game or having a series closer than you expected. While you may have been a player down (Gilly did play, afterall), we didn't have Fleming for the first two, nor did we have Bond, our main strike bowler.
But we're not going around beating that drum - you need to play with players you have and it is only fair that players deserve a rest.
On another note, well done RSA tonight - I much pleasing victory
KemicalBurn
Bluelight Crew
beech said:
I find it hard to actually get behind a captain who undermines the umpires and allows his players to do the same.
And when he loses, its never because the other side was better on the day. Theres always "somone" out of form, or the wicket, or the umpiring.
Poor sportsmanship = poor captaincy
FaTz
Bluelighter
^^^Hmmm, Close. He did last night say "I think that we need to start looking at how serious we're taking all this"... And hopefully they do. Last thing we want is to go up against say Bangladesh and lose against them becuase we didn't take the game too seriously... That'd just make me cry too much
KB, I've seen Ponting admit the team was outplayed before, its a stock standard line that all captains use "we were outplayed by the better on the day, but i'm sure we will bounce back". Also by saying someone is out of form it is admitting the other side was better just in a roundabout way. No captain worth his salt is going to bow down in a press conference and sing the praises of the oposition. When Allan Border captained Australia and were flogged on a pretty regular basis at the start of his reign (nothing to do with his captaincy, just had a shit team) he would never sing the praises of the oposition and admit his team was pretty ordinary, or played poorly. Its just not the done thing. You give a bit of credit to the other team for their victory as Ponting usually does and thats about it. I think your right about the umpires thing, he does get in their face a bit much but thats because he can get away with it. If the umpires and match referee got some balls and fined or suspended him everytime he overstepped the line then he would soon stop doing it.
THR, I'm not trying to make excuses for the close series in NZ, I'm just saying that you can't read too much into the result due to the teams that were fielded on the day. Just as Australia played without McGrath, you guys didn't have Fleming, so Australia can't read too far into its victory.
I think I'd have to disagree with you on the replacements for McGrath being as equally formidable. There are a number of them but I believe them to all be a fair few paces behind McGrath. They don't have his consistency and control. He obviously doesn't take wickets due to sheer pace as he only bowls in the 120s these days and cranks up to mid-high 130s in one dayers. Not many bowlers can as many overs as him and only conceed 2-3 runs per over. I think when he retires the Australian attack will be significantly weaker. Especially since its likely that his and Warnes departures will not be too far apart. I think someone like Bracken needs to take the next step and cement a spot and find the consistency and ability to bowl the line and length that McGrath does. It may be a long shot but it is also possible that Gillespie may return to the team some day, in which case he would be the obvious candidate to step it up and fill McGrath's shoes.
Good result in last night's game. Keeps the series interesting and makes for an entertaining series instead of Australia cruising through and having 2 piss poor nations slog it out for the other finals spot. Would be extra good if Sri Lanka can find some form and make a bit of a challenge.
Beech
THR, I'm not trying to make excuses for the close series in NZ, I'm just saying that you can't read too much into the result due to the teams that were fielded on the day. Just as Australia played without McGrath, you guys didn't have Fleming, so Australia can't read too far into its victory.
I think I'd have to disagree with you on the replacements for McGrath being as equally formidable. There are a number of them but I believe them to all be a fair few paces behind McGrath. They don't have his consistency and control. He obviously doesn't take wickets due to sheer pace as he only bowls in the 120s these days and cranks up to mid-high 130s in one dayers. Not many bowlers can as many overs as him and only conceed 2-3 runs per over. I think when he retires the Australian attack will be significantly weaker. Especially since its likely that his and Warnes departures will not be too far apart. I think someone like Bracken needs to take the next step and cement a spot and find the consistency and ability to bowl the line and length that McGrath does. It may be a long shot but it is also possible that Gillespie may return to the team some day, in which case he would be the obvious candidate to step it up and fill McGrath's shoes.
Good result in last night's game. Keeps the series interesting and makes for an entertaining series instead of Australia cruising through and having 2 piss poor nations slog it out for the other finals spot. Would be extra good if Sri Lanka can find some form and make a bit of a challenge.
Beech
KB, I think it's pretty unfair to say ricky ponting is a shit captain, he's doing a reasonable job, plus he doesn't have the same depth of talent that Steve Waugh or Mark Taylor had, plus he's having to blood some fairly new players, and to top that off, the other teams aren't as shit as they were when Waugh and Taylor were in charge, plus I don't think any other players in the side are really up to the role of captain, maybe Hussey if he'd been playing test cricket 3 or 4 years ago, but thems the breaks....
Yeah, because Zimbabwe, Sri Lanka, West Indies, and to some extent India and Pakistan, aren't really shit now as compared to a few years ago 8)
He has an amazing set of players at the moment. I see it as one of the strongest teams you've had in a long time. Sure, they might not all have the experience and game time at an international level, but there is a lot of natural talent on the field, and enthusiasm counts for a whole lot too.
beech: Sorry, but I'm just a strong believer that you play a series with whatever players you select. If there were complete stock changes, and you were lacking in a large number of players, perhaps that line is justified when you lose. But it just seems like a completely lame excuse to me and quite frankly am completely sick of hearing it at the pub / wherever.
Take a loss as it is - being outplayed at the time. Give due credit to the other opposition, whoever they are.
I agree that Ponting is a terrible sport and for me, that also makes him a terrible captain. He should lead by example and exemplify good sportsmanship, not instigate dissent with umpires.
He has an amazing set of players at the moment. I see it as one of the strongest teams you've had in a long time. Sure, they might not all have the experience and game time at an international level, but there is a lot of natural talent on the field, and enthusiasm counts for a whole lot too.
beech: Sorry, but I'm just a strong believer that you play a series with whatever players you select. If there were complete stock changes, and you were lacking in a large number of players, perhaps that line is justified when you lose. But it just seems like a completely lame excuse to me and quite frankly am completely sick of hearing it at the pub / wherever.
Take a loss as it is - being outplayed at the time. Give due credit to the other opposition, whoever they are.
I agree that Ponting is a terrible sport and for me, that also makes him a terrible captain. He should lead by example and exemplify good sportsmanship, not instigate dissent with umpires.
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