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The NFL is a freaking joke.

smotpoker said:
I agree the NFL is a joke, they let a murderer, Michael Vick, back in to play. And they are trying to shove it down our throats that we should forgive him, I guess because he's good at football. Sorry, NFL, some people don't forgive murderers.

I actually have boycotted the NFL from my household until they remove Vick, which may be a while I now but when they allowed that monster to play that was too much for me. Yes I still do pick 'em and FF, but that is as far as it goes with me. Or if Karma does its thing and gives Vick a careeer ender, maybe then I will start watching.

And it just kills me when people say he paid his debt to society. Riiight; going to prison for a couple years for mass murder is really justice huh? And then giving him a shot to become a millionare again, lol, yeah some punishment.

So yeah Rowland I agree the NFL is a joke.
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jesus, i don't really want to get into this but i totally disagree with you on this one.
 
smotpoker said:
I agree the NFL is a joke, they let a murderer, Michael Vick, back in to play. And they are trying to shove it down our throats that we should forgive him, I guess because he's good at football. Sorry, NFL, some people don't forgive murderers.

I actually have boycotted the NFL from my household until they remove Vick, which may be a while I now but when they allowed that monster to play that was too much for me. Yes I still do pick 'em and FF, but that is as far as it goes with me. Or if Karma does its thing and gives Vick a careeer ender, maybe then I will start watching.

And it just kills me when people say he paid his debt to society. Riiight; going to prison for a couple years for mass murder is really justice huh? And then giving him a shot to become a millionare again, lol, yeah some punishment.

So yeah Rowland I agree the NFL is a joke.
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I'm with you on this one. I still cannot get over the fact that Vick is "forgiven" by the media and public. What he did deserves a life sentence in prison. I suppose it all depends on how much you value the life of dogs vs. that of humans. But the media and all of his defenders seem to place absolutely no value on the lives that he took from this world.

I also hate how Vick is always apologizing: "I know I've made some mistakes in the past...". Mistakes, motherfucker? Getting caught with a pound of weed is a mistake. Shooting yourself in the leg in a strip club with a gun you had a license for that you didn't realize wasn't valid in NY is a mistake (Plaxico is still in jail while Vick runs free). Getting into a fight at a bar or club and knocking somebody unconscious or seriously injuring them by accident is a mistake. Hanging out with a bad crow that will get you into a lot of trouble is a mistake.

The breeding of dogs to fight to the death for your own amusement is serial murder. Every week I hope Vick breaks his neck. I have never wished injury on a player before. But to me, Vick is only a small step below Ted Bundy and assholes like them. What he did is unforgivable.
 
3 said:
I'm with you on this one. I still cannot get over the fact that Vick is "forgiven" by the media and public. What he did deserves a life sentence in prison. I suppose it all depends on how much you value the life of dogs vs. that of humans. But the media and all of his defenders seem to place absolutely no value on the lives that he took from this world.

I also hate how Vick is always apologizing: "I know I've made some mistakes in the past...". Mistakes, motherfucker? Getting caught with a pound of weed is a mistake. Shooting yourself in the leg in a strip club with a gun you had a license for that you didn't realize wasn't valid in NY is a mistake (Plaxico is still in jail while Vick runs free). Getting into a fight at a bar or club and knocking somebody unconscious or seriously injuring them by accident is a mistake. Hanging out with a bad crow that will get you into a lot of trouble is a mistake.

The breeding of dogs to fight to the death for your own amusement is serial murder. Every week I hope Vick breaks his neck. I have never wished injury on a player before. But to me, Vick is only a small step below Ted Bundy and assholes like them. What he did is unforgivable.
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Dude you said it perfectly! Like you said though, it IS a matter of how much value you put in a dogs life, I personally feel pets are members of the family, I don't have any kids, but if something happened to my dog, which is my baby, I would grieve like it was a family member.

I know it annoys people when this gets brought up, but I'm sorry it's just something I can't get over, and it is the biggest single thing, imo, that is wrong with the NFL. I completely agree with you on Burris as well, for people to say he is a worse person than Vick is laughable. And I know no one is claiming Vick is or isn't a more worthy being than Burris, but the punishments given byt the courts seem to think so...
 
philosophy 101

a human's life is worth more than a dog's life which is worth more than an ant's life

I'm with CS in disagreeing with smotpoker. this is America, and I believe that Michael Vick served his appropriate time, and has become a better man and in turn a more popular sports story due to his incarceration

we have to believe in second chances
 
axl blaze said:
a human's life is worth more than a dog's life which is worth more than an ant's life
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i know this forum isn't used to logic, but you actually have to prove -- or at least back up -- what you're saying with logic

otherwise it's NANA NANA NA NA, my word against yours!
 
ok.

i'm probably just about as big of a dog lover as anyone you've ever met. my 10 year old chocolate lab is pretty much the best thing that's ever happened to me, and i'm married with a 2 year old son. lulz.

i think michael vick is a rotten piece of shit for what he did, and maybe animal abuse laws should carry stiffer penalities, but that's a whole different topic.

but, remember there is a cultural aspect of dog fighting. a ton of black folks down south still do this and have been doing it for years. it doesn't make it right, but there are still a ton of mexicans in mexico that participate in cock fighting. it's just something that's been going on for years. should we take a look at this stuff and crack down on it?? absolutely.

but i completely believe 100% that people can change and people deserve a second chance. in mike vick's case he has admitted his mistakes and now he is doing things in the community to speak out against dog fighting and thugery in general. is he doing this for selfish purposes? probably so, but who cares as long as he's putting a positive message out there.

i don't know, the guy has a sick gift and at the end of the day the NFL is just a business like everybody else, and mike vick is an excellent product. i talk to rotten piece of shit tax cheating lying motherfuckers every day in the corporate world. whatever - life's a shit sandwich, eat it or die.

good god, i'm rambling. i don't even know where i'm going with this, but i do believe that mike vick is very deserving of the chance he's getting right now. if you want to talk about ethics in the NFL, you should probably look at people like leanord little or dante stallworth....shit, maybe even ray lewis.

i think it's funny when all of the pita type protesters yell about mike vick but probably don't even know about the vehicular manslaughter shit that has gone down with NFL players.

tl, dr kewl story. fml.
 
why do people think they can dictate and judge "right" or "wrong" for anyone other than themselves?

anyone have a logical response? ;)
 
NCAA football is a joke, a league where education is mocked, young adults are exploited and only the corrupt can succeed.

A top 25? For what? Dick sizing?

Than after the season they take a month intermission while way too many teams prepare to play exhibition games so that the suits can collect....
 
Like I mentioned earlier, some people don't forgive murderers. Nothing will change my opinion on that. And I don't think what he did could simply be called animal abuse...he murdered hundreds and hundreds of creatures. Not exactly just beating a dog for pissing on a rug.


Ray Lewis wasn't found guilty, whether he is or not I can't make a judgement on. Stallworth made a giant mistake, one that cost somebody their life, but I don't think Dante got into the car that night with a premediated plan to kill someone. Vick planned on killing all those dogs. That is murder, and there is no other way to really put it. I don't care if it was just dogs, IT WAS MURDER.

And yes China Rider, the NCAA is a complete joke. The Heisman Trophy winner is a convicted felon whose Dad was magically able to fix a condemned church with money that just magically appeared. Don't even get me started on the NCAA.

But look, I know you guys are sick of me mentioning this. I'll try to refrain from bringing it up again, it is just something that gives me chills and anger every time I think about it. It's the biggest issue I have with the NFL. But I'll try to cool it for a while.
 
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As far as vick goes, i forgive him for what he did because my spiritual beliefs require me to. If God is to forgive me i have to forgive others.

But, because of what he did, i still want Vick to lose every week. Better believe i would root hardcore against the eagls int he playoffs. Probably the only team i would take great delight in Tom Brady and the pats ripping to shreads.
 
KamMoye said:
i know this forum isn't used to logic, but you actually have to prove -- or at least back up -- what you're saying with logic

otherwise it's NANA NANA NA NA, my word against yours!
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you don't agree with this most basic, philosophical dissertation? CS actually did a good job of proving some of that point. but since you disagree - and you do disagree, you are not just a reactionary contrarily, correct? - I would say the burden of proving me wrong rests (or now rests) on your hilariously sad shoulders
 
Definitely didn't expect the direction this thread went in...



What does hating Vick and wishing him harm accomplish?
 
axl blaze said:
you don't agree with this most basic, philosophical dissertation? CS actually did a good job of proving some of that point. but since you disagree - and you do disagree, you are not just a reactionary contrarily, correct? - I would say the burden of proving me wrong rests (or now rests) on your hilariously sad shoulders
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you need a source, for one. i've taken philosophy and i wouldn't say that its most "basic" tenet, a tenet so basic that it doesn't need a source.

isn't what i said a most basic, philosophical assertion? i essentially am stating: treat people how you wish to be treated.

moving on, as matt ridley wrote so eloquently in the red queen, you have to define why we value a human's life more than other life.

he said okay, the most basic of human life, like a crustacean, likely can't conceptualize its own existence. but a dog most likely can, and a human can too. a dog can dream. a dog experiences much of what a human experiences, which also intuitively makes sense because that is why we like them so much: they are similar to us.

therefore if you follow where the logic has taken us so far, the line you try to draw blurs very quickly.

this is all paraphrased obv, i didn't feel like sifting through the book and quoting it word for word (but i can if you ask, because it really is marvelous!).
 
I will say, since this has become a sort of P&S discussion, that us dog lovers are most likely hypocrites to some extent, as I don't imagine many of us to be vegetarians, much less vegans. Our meat comes from cruelty, and yet we continue to eat it. I am not a vegetarian, and I know that every time I eat from McDonalds I am eating the meat of an animal that was tortured and killed in a similarly cruel fashion to that of the Vick case.

You could argue that we eat meat for sustenance, but that is simply not true. We could all choose to become vegan with no repercussions to our health. So, essentially, we choose to eat meat for our own amusement. Fish are hardly sentient, so it seems acceptable to eat them. Chickens feel pain on a much higher level, so it is less acceptable to eat them if you wish for the happiness of all sentient beings. Cows are fairly dumb for mammals, but it is still a level higher than the chicken. But pigs... well. Pigs are smarter than dogs. They are some of the most intelligent creatures on that planet. It is almost inexcusable that we eat pork, considering the intelligence of these beings and the propensity for affection that they possess. I need to swear off pork again soon, but bacon is just so fucking good.

I am waiting for the day where we can grow meat in a lab, similar to stem cell research (we are nearing that point) and have a steak more delicious than anything we could have ever killed for.

I will elaborate on why Vick is still more evil than us later, but I am tired. I just thought it would be interesting to think about for the time being.
 
please don't let KamMoye derail the discussion any longer. I know he is annoying and has the intellectual processes of a 12 year-old but just put him on ignore. I wish I can. no more bullshit here
 
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