Kratom The mystery of Kratom dosage for optimal results, why no reports of positivity from more?

[Forever Changes]

I swear that the simmering for 20 minuites x 2 extractions method produces a better high, you have to also discard the plant material. It seems to actually be slightly weaker by weight, but it lets you dose quite a bit more before the dizzy/shitty side effects from dosing too high hit, so you vcan get a much better high from it since you can dio more all at once.

That said, I almost always just swallow the powder since it's so easy. But me and all my friends fondly remember the early days, when all you could get was crushed leaf, so you HAD to do the traditional simmer extraction method to dose it. All of us agree that those were some of our best highs from any drug, the come-on feels like good coke, super energetic, chatty, euphoric as all get-out. Then after an hour or so, it settled into a heavy, semi-nodding opioid high. One of my good friends stopped doing it for many years and then years later we did some together a few times when he visited, it was the modern day fine powder and we swallowed it, and he was like dude, what the fuck, this doesn't even feel like the same drug, what the fuck. I really don't think it's just a "you fried your receptors and are remembering with rose colored glasses" thing.

But yeah, do NOT boil it, if you full boil it, it burns it and is no good. You have to bring it to just barely a simmer and keep it on low heat and simmer it gently.

damn, the only vendors I have access to don't have crushed leaf.

I can get stem and vein kratom, and Takkra, whatever that is.

As powder seems to be the only type I can get, I've read that dissolving it in hot water is the best method for using it - do you think that's true?

 

[Snafu in the Void]

I swear that the simmering for 20 minuites x 2 extractions method produces a better high, you have to also discard the plant material. It seems to actually be slightly weaker by weight, but it lets you dose quite a bit more before the dizzy/shitty side effects from dosing too high hit, so you vcan get a much better high from it since you can dio more all at once.

That said, I almost always just swallow the powder since it's so easy. But me and all my friends fondly remember the early days, when all you could get was crushed leaf, so you HAD to do the traditional simmer extraction method to dose it. All of us agree that those were some of our best highs from any drug, the come-on feels like good coke, super energetic, chatty, euphoric as all get-out. Then after an hour or so, it settled into a heavy, semi-nodding opioid high. One of my good friends stopped doing it for many years and then years later we did some together a few times when he visited, it was the modern day fine powder and we swallowed it, and he was like dude, what the fuck, this doesn't even feel like the same drug, what the fuck. I really don't think it's just a "you fried your receptors and are remembering with rose colored glasses" thing.

But yeah, do NOT boil it, if you full boil it, it burns it and is no good. You have to bring it to just barely a simmer and keep it on low heat and simmer it gently.

You could be right. Its been well over 5 years since I've made tea. I used to always put in a shit load of lemon juice.

I remember when I first switched to tea I thought it highly superior. Now I actually remember getting higher than I do now with the same dose, but I also had lower(?) Tolerance and was using over 2x I do now.

Thinking back either the vendor had better strains or tea really does increase potency...

I'm not quite sure... Back in the day I had a few strains that were so good I could swear there was an RC like desotramadol or something added to it... Maybe kratom was just better back then.

 

[Xorkoth]

damn, the only vendors I have access to don't have crushed leaf.

I can get stem and vein kratom, and Takkra, whatever that is.

As powder seems to be the only type I can get, I've read that dissolving it in hot water is the best method for using it - do you think that's true?

No one seems to have anything but powder anymore. I miss the days when crushed leaf was the norm... sometimes the pounds I would get came with a little bit of twine from the bundle being tied together.

yeah mixing it with hot water is probably the best way. I dunno though, I still feel like ingesting the leaf material makes it easier to get that dizzy/weird feeling you can get from it. The effect seems cleaner with the tea when you don't consume the plant material. I haven't actually tried doing it that way in a long time, I remember trying back in the day with the powder and I'm not sure if it made a difference.

I'm not quite sure... Back in the day I had a few strains that were so good I could swear there was an RC like desotramadol or something added to it... Maybe kratom was just better back then.

Yeah I wonder about that too. It certainly seems like it used to be better. I maintain that when the global supply changed to powder, it immediately became less good. I remember noticing it the first time. And my friends felt the same way. Old school kratom crushed leaf was the shit.

I have always wanted to try fresh leaf, but have never had the chance. My girl used to live on this communal hippie farm, and the last time we visited there for a day festival, the guru/sexual predator guy who owns the place was showing me the kratom tree he was growing. He offered me some leaves from it but I was off opioids then so I declined. I have been wondering whether it's sort of like khat, where drying the leaves makes it substantially less good (or so I've heard, I've never tried khat).

 

[Snafu in the Void]

@Xorkoth I don't even think I've tried crushed leaf. Started ordering online first in 2011 but only regularly in 2013 I think. The only kratom I've ever had is powder.

Back in the early 2010's I used to order UEI (ultra enhanced indo). Man 500mg of that stuff felt equivalent to 15-20g.

But I was specifically referring to this one vendor I ordered from. I had ordered various strains and had a big tolerance at that point then I ordered an ounce of their "Crimson Thai" and I swear that shit was oxy or something it was wayyyyyyyyyyyyy good. Tried to order more and they were sold out and never restocked it. Never answered my emails about it. I assumed it was laced, lol xD, never had anything close to that since.

I feel like trying UEI again im surprised i don't see it advertised

 

[Xorkoth]

The crushed leaf days were back in 2003 to maybe 2005, 2006. Maybe before then too, but I first tried it in 2003.

 

[negrogesic]

No one seems to have anything but powder anymore. I miss the days when crushed leaf was the norm... sometimes the pounds I would get came with a little bit of twine from the bundle being tied together.

yeah mixing it with hot water is probably the best way. I dunno though, I still feel like ingesting the leaf material makes it easier to get that dizzy/weird feeling you can get from it. The effect seems cleaner with the tea when you don't consume the plant material. I haven't actually tried doing it that way in a long time, I remember trying back in the day with the powder and I'm not sure if it made a difference.



Yeah I wonder about that too. It certainly seems like it used to be better. I maintain that when the global supply changed to powder, it immediately became less good. I remember noticing it the first time. And my friends felt the same way. Old school kratom crushed leaf was the shit.

I have always wanted to try fresh leaf, but have never had the chance. My girl used to live on this communal hippie farm, and the last time we visited there for a day festival, the guru/sexual predator guy who owns the place was showing me the kratom tree he was growing. He offered me some leaves from it but I was off opioids then so I declined. I have been wondering whether it's sort of like khat, where drying the leaves makes it substantially less good (or so I've heard, I've never tried khat).

Crushed leaf is back now and relatively available (sold at a slight premium to powder). There are many varieties too. I've never tried the crushed leaf myself though.

 

[bongdong]

As powder seems to be the only type I can get, I've read that dissolving it in hot water is the best method for using it - do you think that's true?

I don't think there is any or much difference that depends on the form the kratom comes. The active compounds are quite stable and if it's high quality, it will kick. Of course, when someone e.g. gets a tummyache from too much plant material, it might be a good idea to make tea, but I don't think this does anything with the kratom itself, like make it 'stronger'. I tried most administrations and recipes (except via the backdoor) and had most forms it comes in; resin, fresh leafs (I had plants for many years), dried whole/crushed/powdered leaves. Never bothered about so called "extracts", other than plain resin.

I'm not denying y'alls subjective experience, but I know how different the effect can be from one day to the next with the exact same material and ROA. One day feels "Woah, that is divine!", the other "Has it come up yet?", so recommendations based on the form it comes are kind of misleading, I find. Except looking for quality (freshness, pesticides, etc.). Optimize bioavailability I would say, that makes a significant difference, after keeping tolerance low of course.

Personally I feel resin (which is more expensive) and powder are the most convenient. Used to make hot chocolate with resin (just swollowing bits works too, but the release is slower I find). With powder, toss-n-wash is done in a second, a hot cup of tea after 30min or so is lovely. Inviting the body to absorb is what we want, isn't it?

Greetings

PS.: It appears, there is one thing that makes almost every drug better, have you noticed? It's.. the old days! Back in the day, when we had 500mcg acid stamps, when the H was as pure as the XTC, coke clean as fresh snow and the kratom came crushed and not powdered. I'm not trying to mock anybody, it's rather funny how the mind loves to weave these kind of stories, enhancing and polishing memories etc.

 

[4meSM]

damn, the only vendors I have access to don't have crushed leaf.

I can get stem and vein kratom, and Takkra, whatever that is.

As powder seems to be the only type I can get, I've read that dissolving it in hot water is the best method for using it - do you think that's true?

I know the vendor you're talking about. Stem&vein is much weaker than regular kratom, I wouldn't recommend it tbh.
I tried a batch of "takkra" and found it pretty underwhelming, the taste was pretty bad too. That was more than a year ago though.
Their batches are pretty consistent and I believe they do have some kind quality control, but it's definitely not the strongest kratom around. I think green malay and maeng da were the best types (from that particular vendor).

 

[Xorkoth]

PS.: It appears, there is one thing that makes almost every drug better, have you noticed? It's.. the old days! Back in the day, when we had 500mcg acid stamps, when the H was as pure as the XTC, coke clean as fresh snow and the kratom came crushed and not powdered. I'm not trying to mock anybody, it's rather funny how the mind loves to weave these kind of stories, enhancing and polishing memories etc.

I can't deny this is the truth, and certainly my early days of kratom, before I had achieved a massive permatolerance to opioids, was always going to give much better results. But I also can't deny that I noticed the difference when I first got the fine powder form. My thought was that maybe the supply, once demand became far greater, started coming from an inferior product... perhaps farmed kratom (vs wild gathered) lacks potency or something? Or maybe it's coming from a different variety of the plant, as it varies in alkaloid content depending on where it's from.

I ordered some of the crushed leaf I found from a new vendor, I am trying to get back off of kratom, but have a taper plan so I figured I'd satisfy my curiosity. I paid for express 2-day delivery, and it's now day 5, and the tracking says it hasn't even left the distribution center.

 

[BenzoBrain3]

I'm wondering if it could be potentiated by a couple dxm capsules similar to what happens with cocaine...it should work on paper anyways because thats kinda what NMDA antagonists do.

 

[Xorkoth]

Wow okay, so I made the traditional tea method from this crushed leaf. 2 extractions by lightly simmering 11 grams of crushed leaf for 20 minutes each. Combined, cooled in the fridge. it turned the color of creamed coffee and tastes way worse than usual:

It's like it used to be! I feel a rush of euphoria, no dizziness or adrenergic effect, it's like a come-up of cocaine a bit mixed with oxy, which is exactly how I remember it. Fuck me, either this supply is much higher quality than what I've gotten since the "good old days", or I was right about this method. Or both.

 

[Xorkoth]

Well now that it has settled in, it's more similar to normal, but I hadn't felt that come-up rush in a long time.

 

[4meSM]

Wow okay, so I made the traditional tea method from this crushed leaf. 2 extractions by lightly simmering 11 grams of crushed leaf for 20 minutes each. Combined, cooled in the fridge. it turned the color of creamed coffee and tastes way worse than usual:

It's like it used to be! I feel a rush of euphoria, no dizziness or adrenergic effect, it's like a come-up of cocaine a bit mixed with oxy, which is exactly how I remember it. Fuck me, either this supply is much higher quality than what I've gotten since the "good old days", or I was right about this method. Or both.

I believe it really comes down to quality.
I remember buying a batch of crushed leaf years ago and not liking it at all, it was very bad kratom. Nowadays I only buy my kratom from one high quality supplier.

I wonder why some vendors have much better kratom than others.

Maybe all of the best vendors buy their kratom from the same handful of Indonesian suppliers. Probably well-established plantation owners who have been doing it for awhile and can afford to charge a bit more. Since they have been in the game for a while they would have older trees as well (afaik old trees produce much more alkaloids).

But why is some kratom so bad? No idea if it comes down to bad trees/bad climate or it has something to do with the storage conditions (they could be selling very old and/or poorly stored batches that have lost most of the good alkaloids).

 

[Dead But Smiling]

My fav things about kratom are its inability to give me even a buzz anymore, the jaw clenching, the irritability, and the depersonalization.

 

[Burnt Offerings]

Crushed leaf is great, just has a much better consistency than tea made from powder imo/ime (which is like drinking a puddle heh)

 

[Xorkoth]

I believe it really comes down to quality.
I remember buying a batch of crushed leaf years ago and not liking it at all, it was very bad kratom. Nowadays I only buy my kratom from one high quality supplier.

I wonder why some vendors have much better kratom than others.

Maybe all of the best vendors buy their kratom from the same handful of Indonesian suppliers. Probably well-established plantation owners who have been doing it for awhile and can afford to charge a bit more. Since they have been in the game for a while they would have older trees as well (afaik old trees produce much more alkaloids).

But why is some kratom so bad? No idea if it comes down to bad trees/bad climate or it has something to do with the storage conditions (they could be selling very old and/or poorly stored batches that have lost most of the good alkaloids).

I think you probably nailed it. Global demand for kratom is up tremendously from when I started using it, so it follows that there would be a whole lot of younger trees providing a lot of the supply. The stuff I found actually isn't super expensive, but the stuff I was getting before that is really cheap from a gas station. But the stuff from the local head shop chain is 3 times as expensive and even more shitty than the gas station stuff.

In any case, I dosed it once today and I am feeling a little bit of chills now but it's 10 hours later and I was actively high for way longer than usual. Haven't had a kratom high like that in a long time. Dunno why I ordered so much though, shouldn't have done that. I was doing really well for a wile and using my time lock safe and dosing once every 3 days and wasn't really getting withdrawals anymore, then, inevitably, I cheated and found myself dosing 3-4 times a day again before long. The struggle is real...

 

[negrogesic]

Wow okay, so I made the traditional tea method from this crushed leaf. 2 extractions by lightly simmering 11 grams of crushed leaf for 20 minutes each. Combined, cooled in the fridge. it turned the color of creamed coffee and tastes way worse than usual:

It's like it used to be! I feel a rush of euphoria, no dizziness or adrenergic effect, it's like a come-up of cocaine a bit mixed with oxy, which is exactly how I remember it. Fuck me, either this supply is much higher quality than what I've gotten since the "good old days", or I was right about this method. Or both.

Yeah if you got it from where i think you got it, they sell really high quality kratom. Never tried the crush leaf and/or tea.

I'd love to but with my girlfriend working at home due to the pandemic, im not interested in the "what are you doing". In her defense she has seem me make many concoctions, some of which made me unpleasant to deal with.

Actually i think ill get some and tell her its Yerba Mate leaves

 

[Xorkoth]

Yeah my girlfriend is not down with my opioid use, I lied to her about it and got caught once a while back, it was kind of a big deal. I don't lie about drugs in general with her, but opiates, yeah. It scares the fuck out of her due to ow much I stressed how much they fucked my life up in the past. Not proud of it, but the struggle is real. So I can only do this method when she's at work, 3 days a week. Thing is she knows what kratom smells like, and she has the nose of a bloodhound, it's insane. Well it's for the best, I don't need to be doing this every day.

 

[bongdong]

@Xorkoth Glad you had a good time, seems your opioid receptors aren't that fucked up after all? How did you take it before your tea experiment? There is no way of knowing, but I would not be surprised if gas-station-kratom is simply, well ..shit.

Having or ordering larger quantities is always a tricky business. How's your taper plan looking? Or are you going to sit at a sunny spot in your house, looking at the peaceful trees while sipping on some more kratom tea, with slippers on? I once did this lock-away-thing with other substances; I can't believe to what length I went, ..and crazy how much energy this sort of battle ate up. Learned a lot (about my mind), but I'm not doing this shite again, there has to be other ways, ..and there are.

Actually i think ill get some and tell her its Yerba Mate leaves

Optically, I think you could pull this off.

 

[Niro007]

When I had a severe case of sciatic pain I tried lots of things.

Believe it or not THC with a bit of CBD didnt work. I was desperate and tried Kratom capsules which kinda worked but I didnt take away the pain.. but would like to try those crushed leaves.

Thev only thing that worked was Tramadol.. and l I'll me a champ I did it's job.