Kratom The mystery of Kratom dosage for optimal results, why no reports of positivity from more?

[Anonymous Dissident]

I notice that Red vein and aged strains are the most 'opiate-like' for me. Dark Brown Bentuagie and Red Dragon rating the highest on pain relief.

I find red elephant and red Sumatra to be almost on par with red dragon in terms of analgesic effects, but slightly faster working than bentuagie especially.

 

[bongdong]

I'm also very much convinced of the 'ceiling-effect' of kratom; if I miss the sweet spot, there is not much point in redosing, it will just generate side effects (sweating, nausea, diminished balance; last two seem to go away when laying down). I attribute the difference in effect, which for me is a variation in potency and not really a change in the way it makes me feel, to the ability of my body to metabolize it. So if I would eat half a pig right before taking kratom, I wouldn't expect much of an effect or only very delayed and mild. Since I only take it 'recreationally' in the evening, I'm quite motivated to take care of this, making sure my stomach is relatively empty, that I stay hydrated etc. Or stimulate my digestion after dosing by snaking on tiny amounts of chocolate or nuts etc.

❤❤❤ Just a mini-report:
Yesterday was one of those days where the bioavailability was probably perfect. One initial dose of 10g straight of high quality green powderd leafs, ROA: toss & wash with plain water. Most of the time I know right away when it's going to be great, cause the effect occurs very quickly (starting within 15 minutes), but this time it took 45min to an hour. When it came on it was like a train at full speed was picking me up; not in a violent way but with the same power and momentum. It's crazy how potentially strong this stuff can effect me! Not sure why this is. I basically froze right where I was at my desk, forced to close my eyes I went into a heavenly meditation of one and a half hours straight. It felt like riding an enormous wave of warmth, euphoria and bliss. At times I thought my chest would burst open and this delicious feeling would bubble out of me (in have no clue in what form) and flood absolutely everthing. It was abundant. This emerging joy and harmony was so palpable, it became a synesthetic emotional-physical expression, almost mildly psychedelic. The idea of doing anything else than being immersed in this peaceful ocean of stillness was just ridiculous. I know this stuff for quite some time now, but on occasion, it still gives me an absolute experience. The afterglow that followed that extended peak was rich an longlasting, 6 - 7 hours. (Note: I have no history with strong opiates/opioids, but i wonder what what would feel like for me; yet i don't plan on finding out.)
❤❤❤

Only drawback this time is that the right half of my butt is cramped up today, cause apparently I wasn't sitting comfortable when I went into this 'freeze-mode', but didn't give a shit to move anyway. Should have layed down! But it was absolutely worth it! So if anyone wants to experience kratom to the fullest extend, I really recommend doing some basic preparation. Not that it's guaranteed, but I think the likelihood of a strong experience is the greatest this way, and not dependent on ever higher doses.

Sad thing is, whenever I have stuff like that happen to me (same with extraordinary cannabis trips), I think to myself: THAT is what the government wants to take away from us, it's not and never was about drugs, it's about experience and states of consciousness. Yes, kratom is moderatly addictive, cannabis also, but the proportion of the effects these compounds can have is exceptional in my opinion. It's far from impossible to learn how to utilize these plants, and doing no to little harm (same with psychedelics). But that would make us perhaps more content, inquisitive about or minds and our place in the world and less frantic, dependent, egoic producers/consumers. Anyway..

Thanks for reading (if one does). ☮

 

[GetMeOutOfThisCRAP]

Kratom is really good It helps to cut down the doses drastically if you can no longer feel any positive effects after an extended period of time. Just enough to not withdraw physically so you can function and work but enough to withdraw mentally for a week or two. I know that sounds horrible but what is even more horrible is repeatedly being trapped on a dead-end substance with no benefits. And mentally--kratom tapering/dose dropping is more than bearable comparatively to oxy/heroin. When you cut back on oxy/heroin you really feel yourself losing your mind and pleasure centers.

 

[Zephyn]

I've heard lower dosages of Kratom are known to be more stimulating like hydrocodone, nd that higher doses can be more sedating with a nod like effect. Id guess there is a more potent opioid alkaloid other than. 7-hydrozy-mitragine (or maybe thats the one) found in there in extremely small quantities, thus requiring a higher dose to get that nod effect, and perhaps the other more prominent stimulating tramadol like alkaloid is pleasant but has nasty side effects at higher doses. Only once the plant is fully studied and bioassayed will we find out! I hear also there is some major variation in alkaloid content and effect between strains but its all pretty much the same to me.

I used to get really high on about 3-7 grams spaced over a few hours and be so euphoric and trance dance a night, especially with a lil shrooms, lol good times

These days, either the kratom quality has gone to shit, or more likely another subset of my brain receptor sites are seemingly permenantly downregulaged, as toss and washing an entire ounce gives me a buzz like maybe 10-20mg hydrocodone did when I was 16, but it used to get me zoomin'. And I havent touched any other opioid in 4 months or so

 

[Xorkoth]

7-HO-mitragynine is the strong opioid present in small amounts. it is very potent indeed, active in sub-milligram ranges. Mitragynine itself is less potent as an opioid, and also less potent and more abundant. Some strains have a higher 7-HO-M content.

I have also noticed a reduction in kratom quality. Back in 2002/2003, all you could gte was crushed leaf, not this powder, and you had to make a tea from it. Totally different experience, I swear, I used to feel incredible from kratom, energy and euphoria that was coke-like (good coke I mean, where it doesn't really even feel stimulating, more just like a chatty warmth), settling into a heavy, nodding-style opiate high. I have not gotten anywhere approaching this effect since it started all being micronized powder nd became popular.

 

[Zephyn]

7-HO-mitragynine is the strong opioid present in small amounts. it is very potent indeed, active in sub-milligram ranges. Mitragynine itself is less potent as an opioid, and also less potent and more abundant. Some strains have a higher 7-HO-M content.

I have also noticed a reduction in kratom quality. Back in 2002/2003, all you could gte was crushed leaf, not this powder, and you had to make a tea from it. Totally different experience, I swear, I used to feel incredible from kratom, energy and euphoria that was coke-like (good coke I mean, where it doesn't really even feel stimulating, more just like a chatty warmth), settling into a heavy, nodding-style opiate high. I have not gotten anywhere approaching this effect since it started all being micronized powder nd became popular.

Hmm check your source, other than that tolerance ive found its one of the few drugs that I can still get
Get a great high from. Maybe try that UEI extract or toss and wash 50 grams.

 

[GetMeOutOfThisCRAP]

The quality of effects is so beyond hit or miss. I've had kratom batches (very rarely) where i was like "hey this is as strong as oxycodone." It still literally can't kill you but the sickness seems to be just as bad. Can't stop sweating and sweating forever. It's pull for the little deliveries makes no sense to me.

 

[bongdong]

These days, either the kratom quality has gone to shit,

I have also noticed a reduction in kratom quality.

I don't have this experience (luckily), on the contrary. I used to exclusively order Malaysian Maeng Da for many years. Since this year, I have a new vendor right around the corner where I pay almost 1/3 for the same amount as before. Not kidding, one third! Feel kind of stupid for having paid so much for so long. Over the summer I tested at least, gosh, between 20-30 strains (green, red, white, mixtures, with different origins etc.) and surely found 6-7 varieties that are equally appealing to me as the stuff I had before. Bonus: they work all a bit different, some more on the body, some more mentally, some do both etc. Cause of the ban-thing going on (again), i now have some kilos in the fridge; you never know.

The quality of effects is so beyond hit or miss. I've had kratom batches (very rarely) where i was like "hey this is as strong as oxycodone."

Sure, it's a natural product, nothing else is to expect. But large vendors buy in huge quantities, so a batch usually lasts a while. Get a sample, if it's nice, load up some kilos of the same. Unfortunately most sellers do not label their/different charges. I don't want to sound like a broken record, but your body's ability to digest kratom is a major factor regarding the effect, imo.

EDIT: Forgot to mention, as soon as I feel the kratom coming on, I often drink a cup of tea which can really bootstrap the whole thing. Back in the day, i used to drink Rooibos tea with honey plus a fair amount of Kanna (Sceletium tortuosum), but I'm not sure if the Kanna did anything. Probably any hot liquid will do.

 

[4meSM]

I used to feel incredible from kratom, energy and euphoria that was coke-like (good coke I mean, where it doesn't really even feel stimulating, more just like a chatty warmth), settling into a heavy, nodding-style opiate high.

This is how kratom makes me feel. Since I use it daily the effects aren't as strong as before, but I can get there by taking a higher dose (as long as it's a good batch).

 

[Zephyn]

I don't have this experience (luckily), on the contrary. I used to exclusively order Malaysian Maeng Da for many years. Since this year, I have a new vendor right around the corner where I pay almost 1/3 for the same amount as before. Not kidding, one third! Feel kind of stupid for having paid so much for so long. Over the summer I tested at least, gosh, between 20-30 strains (green, red, white, mixtures, with different origins etc.) and surely found 6-7 varieties that are equally appealing to me as the stuff I had before. Bonus: they work all a bit different, some more on the body, some more mentally, some do both etc. Cause of the ban-thing going on (again), i now have some kilos in the fridge; you never know.

Sure, it's a natural product, nothing else is to expect. But large vendors buy in huge quantities, so a batch usually lasts a while. Get a sample, if it's nice, load up some kilos of the same. Unfortunately most sellers do not label their/different charges. I don't want to sound like a broken record, but your body's ability to digest kratom is a major factor regarding the effect, imo.

EDIT: Forgot to mention, as soon as I feel the kratom coming on, I often drink a cup of tea which can really bootstrap the whole thing. Back in the day, i used to drink Rooibos tea with honey plus a fair amount of Kanna (Sceletium tortuosum), but I'm not sure if the Kanna did anything. Probably any hot liquid will do.

If they ban it let's riot

 

[Zephyn]

This is how kratom makes me feel. Since I use it daily the effects aren't as strong as before, but I can get there by taking a higher dose (as long as it's a good batch).

Out of curiosity, what is your daily dosage?

 

[4meSM]

Out of curiosity, what is your daily dosage?

About 16-18g at the moment

 

[negrogesic]

Whenever I get hooked on kratom I seem to wind up on about an ounce a day (28g/day) dosed in 4-5g amounts every 4-6 hours or so. Anything more makes me sick to my stomach, and much less puts me into withdrawal.

They very annoying thing about kratom is after 5-6 hours withdrawal begins, hallmarked by yawning and watery eyes.

That said kratom has gotten me out of serious binds when coming off of other opioids; it is tremendously useful stuff.

 

[nannagram]

We have a Kratom exclusive store here as well that sells 50+ strains. It is, to this day, the best quality Kratom I have found. It is $1 per gram but worth every penny.

***Mods: From what I can tell this does not violate the terms, but if it does let me know and I will delete. Not trying to source.

where is the store you referred to and do they sell online?

 

[negrogesic]

I am one of those that needs 10+ grams to get anything out of it. I was like that from the beginning, from when I was buying crushed leaf Bali and grinded myself. My old joke is 2 grams would not even make me sneeze if I inhaled it :D Never understood the 2-4 gram people but hey, goes to show how we are all different. Use it how it suits you. There is no right or wrong.

I dont understand the 2 gram people but 4-6g is the sweet spot for me.

However, the truth is, when i use extract, i prefer the equivalent of 10 grams, or 150mg of mitragynine. I just cant take that much leaf without getting dizzy.

The dizziness from kratom is debilitating. Its plain gross. I can take 400mg of o-desmethyltramadol in a single dose or a gram of tianeptine but 10g of kratom makes me dizzy to the point of vomiting. Yet, the equivalent of 10g of mitragynine via an extract and im golden. The plant material itself seems to disagree with me.

 

[JackARoe]

I have not used an extract for over 10 years. I honestly never found one that was worth it. I remember years ago trying UEI. It was strong but I felt like crap the next day and I understand people that got addicted to it had a tough time going back to plain leaf.

I had been meaning to try o-desmethyltramadol but have not. I also wanted to try tianeptine recently but honestly I research a lot before I do and reading posts by @MDPV_Psychosis and @negrogesic sort of made me not want to anymore. Sounds like a stange drug worse than kratom to stop and not fully understood.

Funny, plain leaf kratom has held me for quite a few years. I started back in 2005 but was still messing with poppy tea. That is where I realized using kratom to come off something stronger almost holds the receptor in place (just guesssing) and when you stop the withdrawal is much worse that just stopping kratom. I have also started and stopped kratom when no other opiates were invovled and found it much easier and quicker.

Amazing what has happened in the USA. The AKA formed and has congressmen with them enlightening people on kratom. And with no deaths or scare stories anymore there is a lot of good kratom around. And everytime I see Chuck Rosenberg on TV I give him credit for backing off the ban that almost happened do to support, letters, and facts they got. C'mon if that were 1985 kratom would be labeled a narcotic and that would be it. But in 2016 some thought was put into in and they reversed the ban. If people were looking for miracles in life I would consider that one. I think the word we all used was unprecedented.

Honestly I have not seen a scare story in the news about kratom in a few years now. The media did try to demonize it but it looked stupid when facts were presented.

 

[Forever Changes]

7-HO-mitragynine is the strong opioid present in small amounts. it is very potent indeed, active in sub-milligram ranges. Mitragynine itself is less potent as an opioid, and also less potent and more abundant. Some strains have a higher 7-HO-M content.

I have also noticed a reduction in kratom quality. Back in 2002/2003, all you could gte was crushed leaf, not this powder, and you had to make a tea from it. Totally different experience, I swear, I used to feel incredible from kratom, energy and euphoria that was coke-like (good coke I mean, where it doesn't really even feel stimulating, more just like a chatty warmth), settling into a heavy, nodding-style opiate high. I have not gotten anywhere approaching this effect since it started all being micronized powder nd became popular.

so with kratom powder, do you need to boil it to make it into a tea like you used to do with the crushed leaf?

I've only ever swallowed powder, so maybe that's why I don't feel much from it

 

[Jabberwocky]

so with kratom powder, do you need to boil it to make it into a tea like you used to do with the crushed leaf?

I've only ever swallowed powder, so maybe that's why I don't feel much from it

Never boil, only simmer.

As a kratom addict for 9 years who used to ONLY make tea - it does not increase potency it just hits you about 10 min faster

I just eat it now

 

[Forever Changes]

Never boil, only simmer.

As a kratom addict for 9 years who used to ONLY make tea - it does not increase potency it just hits you about 10 min faster

I just eat it now

yeah I usually just swallow capsules filled with powder. How many grams and what strains do you find most effective?

do you use extracts?

 

[Xorkoth]

so with kratom powder, do you need to boil it to make it into a tea like you used to do with the crushed leaf?

I've only ever swallowed powder, so maybe that's why I don't feel much from it

Never boil, only simmer.

As a kratom addict for 9 years who used to ONLY make tea - it does not increase potency it just hits you about 10 min faster

I just eat it now

I swear that the simmering for 20 minuites x 2 extractions method produces a better high, you have to also discard the plant material. It seems to actually be slightly weaker by weight, but it lets you dose quite a bit more before the dizzy/shitty side effects from dosing too high hit, so you vcan get a much better high from it since you can dio more all at once.

That said, I almost always just swallow the powder since it's so easy. But me and all my friends fondly remember the early days, when all you could get was crushed leaf, so you HAD to do the traditional simmer extraction method to dose it. All of us agree that those were some of our best highs from any drug, the come-on feels like good coke, super energetic, chatty, euphoric as all get-out. Then after an hour or so, it settled into a heavy, semi-nodding opioid high. One of my good friends stopped doing it for many years and then years later we did some together a few times when he visited, it was the modern day fine powder and we swallowed it, and he was like dude, what the fuck, this doesn't even feel like the same drug, what the fuck. I really don't think it's just a "you fried your receptors and are remembering with rose colored glasses" thing.

But yeah, do NOT boil it, if you full boil it, it burns it and is no good. You have to bring it to just barely a simmer and keep it on low heat and simmer it gently.