thestudent14
Bluelighter
It's more like 100mg MDMA ~ 250mg bk-MDMA.
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AADD Moderators: andyturbo
The MDxx Discussion Thread Number 3!
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It's more like 100mg MDMA ~ 250mg bk-MDMA.
poledriver
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I take ecstasy — talk to me about the drug debate
I’ve been taking ecstasy and MDMA on and off since I was 18. I’m now a 24-year-old casual user and don’t consider myself irresponsible. I’m part of the 11.4% of males aged 20 to 29 who have indulged in the last 12 months. I’ve always had fun and I’ve never needed medical attention. My personal experience of ecstasy has been incredibly positive.
For these reasons I’ve always been bemused by the coverage of ecstasy-related issues in Australia, until a tragedy like the death of Gemma Thoms at Perth’s Big Day Out festival in 2009 — the inquest played out last month — is broadcast into my living room. Then the bemusement turns to frustration and sadness.
Thoms was not the first young person to experience the panic of carrying ecstasy into a swarm of sniffer dogs. And still the “debate” remains the same. Coroners, policy makers, bureaucrats and police spokesman all handing down rhetoric that’s completely out of touch with the experiences and attitudes of recreational drug users.
The inquest into her death was told the 17-year-old took two pills (after already having had one) because she was afraid of being caught by sniffer dogs. Without fail, every year authority figures appear on TV and in newspapers issuing warnings before festivals or music events. The lead-up to last year’s Melbourne Big Day Out was a good example. Senior sergeant Mark Pilkington was reported as saying: “There are heavy penalties associated with drug use and trafficking and a drug conviction does not go away.”
What is a teenager left to think? The rhetoric plays on the vulnerability of young people. Confiscation and punishment doesn’t encourage safe use or practice. The proof is that it encourages unsafe use. A wag of the finger or a dire warning is certainly no disincentive.
We’re all familiar with the argument sniffer dogs are more of a threat to recreational drug users than they are a procedure for harm minimisation. Although there’s a thousand statistics or research papers that could be pulled to support either side of the debate, none of this gets to the disastrous culture of policing ecstasy.
When I see authority figures like senior sergeants threatening from the soap box, I feel like they’re urging their troops to wage war. The measure of their success is the number of people they fine or the warnings they hand out, and the amount of drugs they confiscate. The more drugs the police find, the greater the success. It seems like an overzealous game.
More often than not this policy of confiscation works in the very face of safe practice.
I use an online resource called Pill Report. It’s a real-time tool which reports on good or bad pills with user-generated content and separate scientific testing. I’ve been in the situation where police have confiscated my drugs and this has led me to source ecstasy from within the festival which I wasn’t able to research on Pill Report. (Keep in mind a recreational drug user will not simply give up the search if their stash is confiscated. To think and expect otherwise is fantasy.)
So, what’s more dangerous? This same scenario would be played out time and time again. Pills you know are good, which have been used by friends who’ve had a positive experiences, are confiscated and then replaced via a deal with a shadowy figure hanging out near the urinals.
The logic of replacing confiscated drugs and dealing with strangers might not be foolproof, but neither is the logic of senior sergeants whose actions and rhetoric get a free pass as something noble and righteous.
Terms like “harm minimisation” can be explained much better by professors of public policy and effectively implemented by police. I do, however, put into practice my own methods for reducing the risk of using ecstasy. Why does the law do everything to counteract it?
Tragedies like the death of Gemma Thoms are preventable and now is not a time for the voices and experiences of recreational drugs users to be shunned or penalised. It’s users who are most aware of the dangers posed by ecstasy — we don’t need convincing. Police mustn’t destroy the safe spaces we’re trying to create for ourselves.
CORRECTION: The original version of this article stated Gemma Thoms died at this year’s Big Day Out festival. Her death occurred in 2009; the inquiry was held this year. We apologise for the inadvertent error.
With user comments -
http://www.crikey.com.au/2013/02/12/...e-drug-debate/
I’ve been taking ecstasy and MDMA on and off since I was 18. I’m now a 24-year-old casual user and don’t consider myself irresponsible. I’m part of the 11.4% of males aged 20 to 29 who have indulged in the last 12 months. I’ve always had fun and I’ve never needed medical attention. My personal experience of ecstasy has been incredibly positive.
For these reasons I’ve always been bemused by the coverage of ecstasy-related issues in Australia, until a tragedy like the death of Gemma Thoms at Perth’s Big Day Out festival in 2009 — the inquest played out last month — is broadcast into my living room. Then the bemusement turns to frustration and sadness.
Thoms was not the first young person to experience the panic of carrying ecstasy into a swarm of sniffer dogs. And still the “debate” remains the same. Coroners, policy makers, bureaucrats and police spokesman all handing down rhetoric that’s completely out of touch with the experiences and attitudes of recreational drug users.
The inquest into her death was told the 17-year-old took two pills (after already having had one) because she was afraid of being caught by sniffer dogs. Without fail, every year authority figures appear on TV and in newspapers issuing warnings before festivals or music events. The lead-up to last year’s Melbourne Big Day Out was a good example. Senior sergeant Mark Pilkington was reported as saying: “There are heavy penalties associated with drug use and trafficking and a drug conviction does not go away.”
What is a teenager left to think? The rhetoric plays on the vulnerability of young people. Confiscation and punishment doesn’t encourage safe use or practice. The proof is that it encourages unsafe use. A wag of the finger or a dire warning is certainly no disincentive.
We’re all familiar with the argument sniffer dogs are more of a threat to recreational drug users than they are a procedure for harm minimisation. Although there’s a thousand statistics or research papers that could be pulled to support either side of the debate, none of this gets to the disastrous culture of policing ecstasy.
When I see authority figures like senior sergeants threatening from the soap box, I feel like they’re urging their troops to wage war. The measure of their success is the number of people they fine or the warnings they hand out, and the amount of drugs they confiscate. The more drugs the police find, the greater the success. It seems like an overzealous game.
More often than not this policy of confiscation works in the very face of safe practice.
I use an online resource called Pill Report. It’s a real-time tool which reports on good or bad pills with user-generated content and separate scientific testing. I’ve been in the situation where police have confiscated my drugs and this has led me to source ecstasy from within the festival which I wasn’t able to research on Pill Report. (Keep in mind a recreational drug user will not simply give up the search if their stash is confiscated. To think and expect otherwise is fantasy.)
So, what’s more dangerous? This same scenario would be played out time and time again. Pills you know are good, which have been used by friends who’ve had a positive experiences, are confiscated and then replaced via a deal with a shadowy figure hanging out near the urinals.
The logic of replacing confiscated drugs and dealing with strangers might not be foolproof, but neither is the logic of senior sergeants whose actions and rhetoric get a free pass as something noble and righteous.
Terms like “harm minimisation” can be explained much better by professors of public policy and effectively implemented by police. I do, however, put into practice my own methods for reducing the risk of using ecstasy. Why does the law do everything to counteract it?
Tragedies like the death of Gemma Thoms are preventable and now is not a time for the voices and experiences of recreational drugs users to be shunned or penalised. It’s users who are most aware of the dangers posed by ecstasy — we don’t need convincing. Police mustn’t destroy the safe spaces we’re trying to create for ourselves.
CORRECTION: The original version of this article stated Gemma Thoms died at this year’s Big Day Out festival. Her death occurred in 2009; the inquiry was held this year. We apologise for the inadvertent error.
With user comments -
http://www.crikey.com.au/2013/02/12/...e-drug-debate/
Hey guys, had some good pills in adelaide on the weekend but after we ran out someone pulled out a packet of endone,
now in my normal state i would sus the net first to see if its a safe mix but i didnt have access at the time so took them anyway.
it felt like a really nice combo was coming up on my last pill as i dropped 3 5mg endone, i have no tolerance to opiates so they gave me a nice warm glow and was just generally a good feeling combo for where i was.
the comedown was just a little bit worse than it usually is but that was it.
i just wanting to know how safe the combo is?
now in my normal state i would sus the net first to see if its a safe mix but i didnt have access at the time so took them anyway.
it felt like a really nice combo was coming up on my last pill as i dropped 3 5mg endone, i have no tolerance to opiates so they gave me a nice warm glow and was just generally a good feeling combo for where i was.
the comedown was just a little bit worse than it usually is but that was it.
i just wanting to know how safe the combo is?
laugh
Ex-Bluelighter
Yeh reasonably safe. Sort of a waste to do them at the same though cause obviously md is a stim while endone is oxy which is an opi or downer. Imo best to dose how you did ie the downer on the come down or after the peak of the stim. Obviously different people are goin to have different takes but whatever.
But no their is no real danger or problem with combining the two though
I had a few endone earlier today as a matter of fact.
Can anyone explain why the itch/histamine release is so much worse with endone in comparison to straight oxy/OxyContin?
But no their is no real danger or problem with combining the two though
I had a few endone earlier today as a matter of fact.
Can anyone explain why the itch/histamine release is so much worse with endone in comparison to straight oxy/OxyContin?
footscrazy
Bluelight Crew
The I take ecstasy — talk to me about the drug debate article link seems to be broken.
I agree with the sentiments expressed in that article, of course. I think, though, in the current climate, pieces like this will be easily dismissed or picked apart if not written to the highest standard. I don't think this particular article is near the calibre required to actually change opinion. To me, it contains too many flimsy statements that the anti drug rhetoric is perfectly poised to counter, things like;
The obvious answer to that rhetorical question for the eye rolling masses is, don't take drugs 8)
I don't feel like the author expands nearly enough on what harm reduction is, or how it works. In fact, I find very little substance in the article that could sway the sceptical reader to viewing 'harm reduction' as beneficial over the status quo. Questions in the context of 'So, what’s more dangerous?' come across as disingenuous because they ignore the variable of not taking drugs in the first place.
I feel articles like this need to make more engaging and persuasive the questions why altering one's consciousness (on select substances) is seen as morally wrong; and focus on presenting evidence that harm reduction provides the less damaging route when it is clear that human beings have continued to alter their consciousness even in the face of harsh penalties. As it is, I can unfortunately see this paper through a sceptic's eyes as being nothing more than a drug user whinging that bad things can happen when you take drugs.
I agree with the sentiments expressed in that article, of course. I think, though, in the current climate, pieces like this will be easily dismissed or picked apart if not written to the highest standard. I don't think this particular article is near the calibre required to actually change opinion. To me, it contains too many flimsy statements that the anti drug rhetoric is perfectly poised to counter, things like;
The obvious answer to that rhetorical question for the eye rolling masses is, don't take drugs 8)
I don't feel like the author expands nearly enough on what harm reduction is, or how it works. In fact, I find very little substance in the article that could sway the sceptical reader to viewing 'harm reduction' as beneficial over the status quo. Questions in the context of 'So, what’s more dangerous?' come across as disingenuous because they ignore the variable of not taking drugs in the first place.
I feel articles like this need to make more engaging and persuasive the questions why altering one's consciousness (on select substances) is seen as morally wrong; and focus on presenting evidence that harm reduction provides the less damaging route when it is clear that human beings have continued to alter their consciousness even in the face of harsh penalties. As it is, I can unfortunately see this paper through a sceptic's eyes as being nothing more than a drug user whinging that bad things can happen when you take drugs.
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thestudent14
Bluelighter
Hit the nail on the head foots, I agree with everything in the article, having said that if I was not a drug user or knowledgeable about drugs this article would have no impact on my thoughts.
junkie skumbag
Bluelighter
yeah we've discussed this in the last thread.i've mixed oxycontin (endones) with MDMA pills before with a friend and found it to be a great high.nothing i'd use out clubbing or at a doof but good for a chill night at home with a mate playing video games.we had some really strong pills (a good 120mg+ each) about an hour after dropping my 2nd pill i had about 20-30mg of oxy in me.then as i dropped my last pill i ate 30mg or so straight up not in dribs n drabs.we were fuuuucked i've never seen my friend so shit faced from MDMA before he was getting mildly delusional like i have when i've taken too much MDMA.
From what i've read up on about it,it dosnt seem to dangerous/but there is always more risk added when poly drug use is invloved.If you do plan on doing it again make sure you havnt drunk to much beer (or what ever u drink) as i tend to forget how much alcohol i've consumed when im on MDMA.i didnt notice anything worse with the comedown if anything it was smoother than the average MD afterglow.i agree with laugh i'd pefer to take the oxy as the MDMA is wearing off although when i've mixed stimulants (mdma or meth ect ect) with a opiate (smack or codeine ect ect) they would have a synergy effect.each high would sort of complement each other if you get what i mean. just for the record i have a mediocre to high tollrence to opiates
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poledriver
Bluelighter
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Sorry, i copied the article + link from ditm after i had posted it there as i had shut the original tab, I guess the copy and paste didn't work with the link..
http://www.crikey.com.au/2013/02/12/i-take-ecstasy-talk-to-me-about-the-drug-debate/
You may not be able to see the whole article anyway unless you create a quick account (but that is the whole article i posted anyway), but the comments should still show (I think).
WarChild
Bluelighter
Hi Folks
Long term amphet user, but now on anti-depressents and an anti-psychotic (perhaps due to 18 years of drug use?? duh)...i miss the hell out of MDMA... anyway i have heard from a few people that there has been a bit of a drought in the last few years? Is this true? And if so, why?
In my experience true MDMA pills are normally on the market, its simply luck of the draw if your dealer has that particular contact.
WC
Long term amphet user, but now on anti-depressents and an anti-psychotic (perhaps due to 18 years of drug use?? duh)...i miss the hell out of MDMA... anyway i have heard from a few people that there has been a bit of a drought in the last few years? Is this true? And if so, why?
In my experience true MDMA pills are normally on the market, its simply luck of the draw if your dealer has that particular contact.
WC
poledriver
Bluelighter
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Price has gone down and quality has gone down in pills over a time frame of more than just a few years I think. On the other hand crystals have come into play, but if we follow what's happening in the USA then alot of the crystals will start to become dodgy too I'm guessing, with shit being passed off as molly when it is something totally different, like an RC or some shit, maybe that's happening already, I wouldn't doubt it.
True mdma pills seem to becoming more and more rare, have a look at pillreports.com and the amount of ones with warnings and mdma low compared to how many have mdma high.
I dont know the reasons why our pills have become so shit, probably many reasons, some of the big importers probably got taken down and alot more local pressers took over, but the high dose mdma pills are still here sometimes if you know who as they pop up sometimes on pillreports.com, but if you check out the Europe section and look at how many mdma high ones they have, we have it pretty bad here.
I dont take pills much at all anymore, maybe a couple of times a year. So i'm just having a guess at all this, so that's just my thoughts.
poledriver
Bluelighter
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...to festivals with sniffer dogs
But yeah you have some good points. The author could have gone into many other avenues and discussions on aspects of drug use and HR, but didn't.
Oh, WC, this is possibly some other reasons there is not so many stronger mdma pills around anymore, because of the ingredients needed to make the drug are more tightly enforced and monitored, and customs and LE have picked up their game somewhat and maybe stamped out some of the corruption in the ports and air terminals.
This is a link from the comments in that crickey site about "I take ecstasy...." it's regarding the cutting down of trees containing the viscous, fragrant, safrole oil in Cambodia for the manufacture of MDMA.
http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/asia/090812/drugs-ecstasy-cambodia
WarChild
Bluelighter
Ah yeah I heard about all the safrole trees being cut down. Although if i understand correctly a shitload of other plant species contain safrole too, just not in quite as much quantity. Theres a native safrole tree in Tasmania apparently. Hmmm interesting choice - Tassie wilderness or MDMA?
On a random note - I also heard from a friend who read it on the MAPS newsletter,trials of MDMA-assisted counselling have now begun in the USA!! It is being used currently for post traumatic stress disorder and both patient and counsellor are on the drug. I am blown away - http://www.maps.org/media/view/ecstasy_helps_post-traumatic_stress/ - all of you bluelighters who have ever taken ecstasy (there might be one or two of you out there) .. imagine how powerful that would be as a therepeutic tool!! And if the pre and post loading was done well there would be very little by way of comedown. So fucking cool!!
On a random note - I also heard from a friend who read it on the MAPS newsletter,trials of MDMA-assisted counselling have now begun in the USA!! It is being used currently for post traumatic stress disorder and both patient and counsellor are on the drug. I am blown away - http://www.maps.org/media/view/ecstasy_helps_post-traumatic_stress/ - all of you bluelighters who have ever taken ecstasy (there might be one or two of you out there) .. imagine how powerful that would be as a therepeutic tool!! And if the pre and post loading was done well there would be very little by way of comedown. So fucking cool!!
poledriver
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And I think Tasmania has the most lenient of drugs laws to do with mdma as well, I forget how much exactly it is , but it's considerably more you can get 'caught' with there before it becomes a more serious charge above 'for personal use' (than the other states and territories).
On that topic of mdma and relationships, this article and the following comments was interesting I thought -
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/663783-Researcher-says-love-drug-can-save-relationships
On that topic of mdma and relationships, this article and the following comments was interesting I thought -
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/663783-Researcher-says-love-drug-can-save-relationships
Morkin
Bluelighter
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This man is right. I read years ago about international determination to essentially wipe out the safrole oil trees. It is obviously working.
Morkin
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About time. This was the original use, with obvious potential for benefits.
Like giving LSD to alcoholics.
Dumb situation we're in.
thestudent14
Bluelighter
Ah yeah I heard about all the safrole trees being cut down. Although if i understand correctly a shitload of other plant species contain safrole too, just not in quite as much quantity. Theres a native safrole tree in Tasmania apparently. Hmmm interesting choice - Tassie wilderness or MDMA?
On a random note - I also heard from a friend who read it on the MAPS newsletter,trials of MDMA-assisted counselling have now begun in the USA!! It is being used currently for post traumatic stress disorder and both patient and counsellor are on the drug. I am blown away - http://www.maps.org/media/view/ecstasy_helps_post-traumatic_stress/ - all of you bluelighters who have ever taken ecstasy (there might be one or two of you out there) .. imagine how powerful that would be as a therepeutic tool!! And if the pre and post loading was done well there would be very little by way of comedown. So fucking cool!!
The shortage of safrol oil in Australia isn't really the main reason we have a shortage. It's more to do with severed connections from large importations of MDMA. Even the bulk that seems to come into this country I suspect is still minimal compared to the tonnes that were regularly coming in pre-2008 when the drought started. And by 2009 it was in full swing. Australia has no doubt been one of the hardest hit country's by the MDMA drought anywhere in the world. I think primarily this is due to the bulk imports being stopped, I remember hearing that the people in this bust http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/worlds-biggest-ecstasy-bust/2008/08/08/1218139079745.html when they were busted it was estimated that they were responsible for about 50% of the MDMA in Australia, but two years later I also remember people estimating it was closer to 90% because of just how rare MDMA really became in Aus.
Most of 2009, the whole of 2010 and probably the first half of 2011 MDMA was extremely rare in Aus. It was still floating around here and there but from what I and others have observed it was extremely hard to find. I think it was around mid 2011 where it all seemed to pick back up, the market now is steady for MDMA. It's fairly common in pills but so are adulturated pills (so always test first, recently there has been a bit of an uprise of dangerous chemicals being pressed such as PMMA) and I know that there is some crystal MDMA floating around (Heaps in Sydney I hear?) but from what I've seen it's still not in bulk down here in Melbourne. So it's not a bad time to look for MDMA compared with a few years ago, but it's still no where as good as it would've been prior to 2007.
As far as the MDMA being used for PTSD it's been proven a powerful tool. Estimates give it around an 85% success rate of CURING PTSD which is substantially higher then traditional methods which have around a 15%-20% success rate, and often take months or years to get there. MDMA has CURED PTSD multiple times from one session. The UK are leading the way in exploring the medicinal values of Ecstasy lead by Professor David Nutt. They recently did a t.v special where they trialed the MDMA on 25 different people to explore the affects on the brain. It was the first time that MDMA had been given in a full clinical trial (opposed to other journals which are normally inconclusive because several things weren't accurately measured such as MDMA purity how much, how often etc.) Also it was a double blind trial (meaning that neither the doctors nor the patients knew if they were getting the MDMA or the Placebo) so the test was purely on the science of how it was affecting the way they felt and their brain activity. Any way my point is that it was great for treating PTSD because MDMA shuts down part of your brain that gives negative feedback when you think visually of bad memories, but doesn't affect your ability to think about it. This means that people can look at traumatic things that have happened to them in the past objectively and therefore be able to process fully what happened to them and then be able to move on with their life.
I'm a firm believer and have been for a long time of the theraputic uses of MDMA, and I'm so happy to see that at least some people around the world are working towards it. In my eyes, if something has medicinal value that is substantially more affective then alternatives, regardless of it's potential as a recreational drug it should always be made available to the people that need it. It seems if we turn our back on PTSD victims we as a society are choosing to stop people getting medication that they need so that other people won't take a risk that they choose to. It doesn't make any sense.
Morkin
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So little does, when it comes to attitudes about chems. The basis for action is archaic moralising.
Some great info there TS14. I only started doing pills at the start of 2005, and even then the old schoolers I ran into would complain about the quality, but the market was on a completely different level in comparison to now and I was having a very good time. Finding high md pills (red russians, green mitzis, orange butterflies, yellow tulips, white turtles, etc) on the regular was very easy and I wasn't even deep into the scene yet. I would even buy stuff in clubs and never ran into any problems (would never do that now). The first time I realised things were really going down the drain was probably around the start of 09 where I got duds for the first time (some dodgy DXM bullshit I think) and then realised I needed a kit and to start following pillreports again. It's sad that the quality and availability has taken such a big hit but 11/12 wasn't too bad, some decent medium range pills were floating about and ran into some fantastic molly but I have a feeling that things have dropped off a bit again, at least in Melbourne. Seems that Sydney is the place to be if you want quality. Oh well!
I've also been wondering why there seems to be alot of quality crystal around while there are so many dud pills. Is it because molly is "in" at the moment, or does pressing a pill take too much time/money/risk? I always thought you could make more profit making pills than selling straight crystal.
I've also been wondering why there seems to be alot of quality crystal around while there are so many dud pills. Is it because molly is "in" at the moment, or does pressing a pill take too much time/money/risk? I always thought you could make more profit making pills than selling straight crystal.
junkie skumbag
Bluelighter
you can and thats whats happening the lower the amount of mdma in each pill means more $$$ in the pressers pockets.also theres the price of getting hold of a pill press.there not cheap at all.then theres finding a place that you could preferably cook and press the pills in unless you were buying MDMA crystal and adding some amphetamine or caffeine to your pills witch imo is whats happening with the pills.if you can get molly and just sell it like that it would take alot less effort but you'd come out with less cash (not to say you could be cutting your own mdma crystals with some other active or non active substance)but with the massive ammount of cash australians pay for quality MD that might be the way to go now. i dono just my 2 cents
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