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The hydrocodone controversy from lies to truth.

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He is right about one thing, acetaminophen does increase the painkilling effects of the pill. It does not however boost the effects of the hydrocodone, it`s a painkiller on it`s own. And I don`t think anyone is ever going to be able to convince anyone else that he/she is wrong, so know that you are the one that is right, and leave it be
 
Twgburst.. If you already KNEW that I was right then why didn't you go ahead and post a reply saying that I was right. did you read what I was claiming..

Ok maybe you miss understood what I was saying, or maybe you misunderstood what Erowid said..




Originally posted by twgburst

"Pure hydrocodone and dihydrocodeine or products which contain more than 15mg per dosage unit are Schedule II in the US.

Products which contain less than 15 mg hydrocodone per dosage unit are federally schedule III in the United States. Almost all prescriptions hydrocodone is prescribed in Schedule III dose units (Vicodin).

Schedule II drug prescriptions may only be refilled with a written prescription, Schedule III pharmaceuticals may be refilled using phoned prescription (thanks to Dr J Moses)."
Click to expand...

This came from the following web page that was posted by twgburst.

www.erowid.org/pharms/hydrocodone/hydrocodone_law.shtml

now twgburst what I was claiming in my first post that started all these disagrements.


Originally posted by ChroinicPAIN on 29-11-2003 at 07:42
So the final message is this.. Hydrocodone can be written as a 15mg or less tablet in pure form. And still be a schedule III narcotic.
Click to expand...

Now the first line of your quote from your post said this

"Pure hydrocodone and dihydrocodeine or products which contain more than 15mg per dosage unit are Schedule II in the US."

now how is that any different then what I said. I even said in a different post that you could not make a pill over 15 milligrams and have it still be schedule III

Sorry if I pissed you guys off or something buy when I get flamed I can only reply by flaming back..

Thank all of you for the flaming and telling me how wrong I was.. now that we have a statement from a doctor like this then I hope you guys can finally stop flaming me like this and like nergrogesic said I should do

Originally posted by negrogesic
So when your corrected or flamed, dont react by starting a flame war. It is certainly no big deal, just grin and fucking bear it,
Click to expand...

Now Twgburst you like I said before you need to start reading things that you post on cause your first post to me was the following:

Originally posted by twgburst:

This person doesn't know what he is talking about (ChronicPAIN). How many knowlegible people are arguing with you? How come noone agrees with you? You prove your wrong with this "(4) not more than 300 milligrams of dihydrocodeinone (hydrocodone), or any of its salts, per 100 milliliters or not more that 15 milligrams per dosage unit, with one or more active, NONNARCOTIC ingredients in recognized therapeutic amounts;"
The first part is refering to hydrocodone cought syrup, the second is refering to pills. This proves you wrong, yet you obviously don't understand it. Why don't you just take our word for it and stop arguing a fact with false information.
http://www.deadiversion.usdoj.gov/d...one/summary.htm
"Control Status

Hydrocodone is in Schedule II of the Controlled Substances Act. Preparations containing hydrocodone in combination with other non-narcotic medicinal ingredients are in Schedule III."
Click to expand...

Thank you guys for all your debates.. and thanks to twgburst for proving me right.
 
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K'DOUTinAZ You do not know where this came from.. I got flamed on another post about this statement and I left it alone.. but they didn't.. I knew I was wright and did leave it alone.. two inparticular people (who I am not going to name but they know who they are) sent me P.M.'s telling me how I was the dumbest fucker on bluelight and how I didn't know shit, and I was spreading false info.. All I did was disagree with a statement that was made on another post.. and I did leave it alone.. and while you think people strung out on crystal may be funny, I do not. After my brother was shot a killed by his wife and she killed her self afterwards, so I lost a brother and a girl who was like a sister to me.. No that statement is not funny..

K'dOUTinAZ why even make a post saying anything like that about me.. you do not know me or what I have been through. and to be honest that was uncalled for..

Now my point has been made and backed up by the other post.. proving me right. I do not want or expect any appoligise because people who would argue like this with me and not show any facts, do not care about facts.. just there opinion.. and I was going to leave this alone but when I looked back at the post I was still getting flamed.. saying that I think this person must be a chick..or stuff like this "I think the only thing we can agree on is that this person is incapable or too close-minded to be involved in a rational debate. "

well personally I'd rather be a "chick" then a dumbass who claims other people are to closed minded .. cause If I'm the one who is closed minded then how come I read everyones post and there ideas, and opinions, not to mention that I looked at all there web sites.. when others have said that they didn't need to read all of my post to know that I'm wrong.. maybe I did want to prove I'm right.. cause I don't want to spread false info. Which acording to the post up above I am not.. and these others who, as was stated by another

I am clueless about stuff like X. But when it comes to opiates and the laws regarding them, I know quite a lot about this stuff... not to toot my own horn though.

and while he does seem to know a bit obviously he doesn't know everything. as neither do I. I knew almost nothing about methadone untill I made a post here asking about it before I started taking it for my chronic pain.. I needed answers on it for pain management and I got it.. To me, and others, this is a better pain management drug then oxycontin's, mscontin, or duragesic transdermal patches.

And vicodelicious, why would I "give it up" when someone is attacking me and made a post telling me I was wrong according to there post when it linked to a web page (Eronwid) That is a very respected site, who gets there infomation from sourcse like doctors and pharmacies and pharmacutical companies.. That said the same thing that I have been saying all alone..

and K'dOUTinAZ I can only assume that you made that post cause you fall into that group of people who where trying to prove me wrong and you don't like it when there is a well known site that people make references to.. when they want to make there point... Proves me wright..

as far as this statement you made :Gotta prove em wrong...gotta prove em wrong....gotta prove em wrong...gotta prove em wrong....gotta prove em wrong... no I don't have to do anything, but seeing as to how I'm disabled and my GF is at work and my son is at daycare.. No I do not have much else to do.. that is why.. Now as far as having to prove you guys wrong was not the point... I was making sure you guys knew I was wright and now we know I am and that my original statement was right. but don't feel bad.. this proved about 75% of the people on this site wrong if you want to know the truth.. but people should be informed of the truth. Which if you have taken the time to read my post and the post up above then you know that has finally been done.. so enough of this.

you can make a pure hydrocodone tablet as long as it is less then 15mgs and it will still be a schedule III narcotic.. as stated in twgburst post and the refering link to Erowid.. thank you..
 
LMAO. You don't get it. It doesn't even matter wether you're right or wrong at this point. You've made yourself look like a major ass.

*everyone points at chronic and laughs*

And by the way, you STILL are NOT right, and have again posted something that proves YOU wrong. You must not read so well. Take a close look:

"Pure hydrocodone and dihydrocodeine or products which contain more than 15mg per dosage unit are Schedule II in the US."


ANY preparation that contains only hydrocodone as the active ingredient is SCHEDULE II.

But by all means, please keep trying to prove yourself "right", it's fucking hilarious.=D
 
ChronicPain, don't take my reply so seriously, I just find it humorous that you are obsessivly re-posting the same basic thing over and over. You got your point across awhile back already but you, for whatever reason, want to continue re-posting. I'm well aware of your situation, I've been reading through this and your other threads and the only reason that I've posted and used the "close-minded" remark is because you're not taking into consideration that others may be right, regardless of the link you provided. What you need to understand is that this link is a very basic one.

Excluding certain synthetics, just about any opioid that does not contain APAP, asprin, or IBproufen will be schedule II for the simple reason that it can be abused to great extents. It would make no difference if there were 5mg of hydrocodone or 15mg in a pill without any non-narcotic substance because both could be abused to the same degree and the same goes with just about any other opioid (excluding certain synthetics). If a pill contained 20mg of hydrocodone (above the 15mg mark) and 500mg of APAP it would be labeled a schedule II drug because the potential of abuse would be increased, as more hydrocodone could be consumed before APAP intoxication becomes present. The dose of non-narcotic substances in hydrocodone products are high in order to keep the potential of abuse lower.

You will notice that codeine products that contain low doses such as 7.5mg combined with 650mg of APAP would be classified as a schedule V drug and as the dose of codeine increases the schedule classification goes up because more codeine can be consumed before OD'ing from the non-narcotic substance. The Tylenol w/ codeine series is an example; the schedule has now increased to III but when codeine is without any non-narcotic substance it becomes schedule II.
 
ChronicPAIN said:
you can make a pure hydrocodone tablet as long as it is less then 15mgs and it will still be a schedule III narcotic.. as stated in twgburst post and the refering link to Erowid.. thank you..
Click to expand...

A hydrocodone tablet that contains more than 15mg's with a non-narcotic substance will be classified as a schedule II drug but regardless, ANY hydrocodone product that does not contain a non-narcotic substance will be classified as a schedule II narcotic; 5mg or 20mg it makes no difference both can be abused to the same degree since there is no non-narcotic substance holding you back
 
ok.. you guys are right. there ya go.. bye.. no reason in making any more post here.. maybe if I say that you are right then you will just let this post die. I have expressed my view.. and you have made yours.
 
You are being a baby now, lol. There is no "view" to be had here, only simple fact. I've never seen such a sore loser in all my life.




I love this thread. I haven't laughed so hard in ages. Seriously, thank you ChronicPAIN.=D
 
Dude, just admit that you are wrong! You don't need to run away and cry and dwell on your own ignorance on this subject. Take it for what it is worth and learn from it.

I'm an idiot and I've made some pretty dumb statements in the past that were false but I learned to accept they were wrong and learn what was right. You don't learn nuthin when you hold on so tightly to false beliefs and refuse to accept the facts.

Keep posting on BL, I don't think that you're an idiot, just that you have shit to learn, many of us still do, I do...
 
This isn't a matter of opinion, ChronicPAIN. I hate to have to resort to what may come across as an insult, but you clearly don't read/comprehend things too well, and that's just a statement of fact at this point. Take some adderall and maybe you'll get it. If not, then go to law or pharmacology school and then maybe you'll get it.

As for my statement that people shouldn't play around with fentanyl, if you really want to argue with me over that, it will leave no doubt in anyone's mind that you're a fool. I did not say nobody should ever use fentanyl. I have had fentanyl before (in the hospital). I'm not saying that nobody should ever touch the stuff. I'm saying it is not wise to use fentanyl recreationally because it's so potent and so short-acting. The narrow therapeutic ratio of fentanyl makes it something one should not play around with. Using a duragesic patch is not 'playing around with fentanyl' ... whereas sucking the gel out of a duragesic patch and eating/injecting it IS playing around with fentanyl. Even if your tolerance is so high as to where shooting 10mg of fentanyl is the only way you can get off, it's still extremely dangerous due to the narrow therapeutic ratio, which does not vary according to your own personal tolerance. I'd never be so presumptuous as to tell someone not to use a certain drug, but fentanyl is very dangerous -- much moreso than, say, hydrocodone, oxycodone, dilaudid, or heroin.

As for me calling a pharmacy to ask about the existence of pure schedule III hydrocodone, I'm not going to embarrass myself when the answer is so clear to everyone but you. Yes, there is such a thing as a stupid question. Since you're the only one miscomprehending the statute and spouting off false information and nonsensical claims, I'd say the burden of proof is on you to find some support for your assertions. Of course, you won't find any (unless you don't understand it when it right in front of you, which seems to be the problem here).

Pure hydrocodone -- regardless of the size of the dose -- is Schedule II, end of story. I don't care how long you've been under the care of a pain management doctor, taking opiates/opioids for extended periods of time does not bring about magical reading comprehension skills. This isn't about experience with opiates, it's about a question of law with an extremely clear, unambiguous answer that everyone seems to understand but you.
 
Hey ChronicPAIN,

Nice to see someone on this page that actually looks for information before they post it here. I do not post to this forum, mostly because it is full of idiots, who are just drug addicts (Note the sarcastic name I made). I mostly post to sci.med.pharmacy here is the web address. Although this is a very debated subject, even there.


groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&group=sci.med.pharmacy

but some of the things you point out will bring up some interesting debates over there, where they actually like to read the laws. The point you make about schedule V narcotics will drive a bunch of people there up the wall.

Now I have been reading this page for a long time, cause it is funny to see some of the stuff these drug abusers write.

Now, because, I have something now, that actually concerns me here, so I'll make this post. I would not post anything, from erowid, as it is not uncommon for them to miss represent something that was said.

Dr. Jeff Moses, is my doctor, and only got into doing this because I run a web page (more on that in a minute), and I was telling him about a lot of the information going around on these web forums. So he started posting on my web page and answering questions. Well he offered to do the same for other pages too, because he felt allot of people where being misinformed by all these drug abuser, he was seeing on all these web pages.

Well he offered to give information to multiple sites about some of there most common Q's and A's. Well they where glad to let him answer some common questions for multiple web pages. So he made his post to some of there FAQ. The hydrocodone scheduling was one of the most common questions asked about but I digress. This particular question was taken from my web page. The one that you people are posting here. Now I believe I need to clear this up. Because it does involve me, indirectly. What you posted was the right statement that doctor Jeff made. But it was missing a couple of comas, which totally changes the meaning of this statement. Which allot of people, when they see it, read it in the right context so let me fix it for you. Now you will know that it is saying what you thought it said ChronicPAIN..


Pure hydrocodone and dihydrocodeine, or products, which contain more than 15mg per dosage unit are Schedule II in the US.

Products which contain less than 15 mg hydrocodone per dosage unit are federally schedule III in the United States. Almost all prescriptions hydrocodone is prescribed in Schedule III dose units (Vicodin).

Schedule II drug prescriptions may only be refilled with a written prescription, Schedule III pharmaceuticals may be refilled using phoned prescription (thanks to Dr J Moses).

By the way Chronic. I have asked Dr. Moses before about the rumor that you can get these things pressed out at a place with a pill press, I was worried about all the Acetaminophen, that is Tylenol for all of you. Cause he was writting me a script and it was written out like this hydrocodon 10 mg Quantity, 90- taken, tid, three times a day, as needed for pain. He told me that you can not get it. Like that, because no one makes them.


I hope this clears it up for you Chronic, as I do not care if anyone else here understands this law or not. Now let me make you an offer. I run a very popular, strict, web site we have about 200,000 members. Usually people have to submit an application for the site to even be considered for an account, but I can tell, by your post that you have written, that I would like you to join my web forum. This web page is for people who really need information about Drugs, this page is not for addicts or for drug abusers, so please do not ask unless you can show me something that would make me consider you.

I will send you a P.M., ChronicPAIN, giving you the web page, with some information and my personal e-mail address so so you can send me your preferred user name , if you want ChronicPAIN, I have checked and it is still open for use. I would also need a password 5-8 letters or numbers long.
Also in your username, If you want a different name, submit it to me. you can use any name you want but we have to approve it, and can not have any characters except for the underscore _ .

Also I would like to tell you not to give up. I have looked at this page for a long time, and this post has been on here and other forums before, but you have given the most complete information I have ever seen on this subject.

This has been a good laugh though. To see these people make post to you and there typical answer of . UUMMMM your wrong. Great argument guys. Not only have you convinced ChronicPAIN with your great wit, I have never seen so many people claim that they knew so much about something, and giving so little information. Almost no information.

Thanks ChronicPAIN, I have never seen one person piss off so many people. It is really pretty amazing to see this. you people have made me laugh my ass off. alone with the people who. hope to hear from you soon Chronic. Thanks for your time. I'll send you a message so make sure you check you messages when you come back here.

Farewell,
Opiod_Addict (a.k.a-- The Opioid Master)
 
I smell something fishy....I know what it is...ChronicPain is writing to himself under the name "opiod_addict" LMFAO!

This is one hilarious thread, I agree! This ChronicPain guy is such a joke, notice how opiod_addict writes completly identical and has the same lame ass education of opiods, using the same site! Haha...

What's next..."the opiod king"?? =D

But ya know, we're just a bunch of drug addicts and considering that we must not know jack shit about our hobbies 8)
 
Maybe along with your Chronic pain you should have a psych dr. look into multiple personality disorders...?

Who gives a fuck about the scheduling for codeine and hydrocodeine as both are rather weak opiates. You should try some real opiates as in natures cure, Heroin. Although, you might turn into one of those 'gasp' pesky drug abusers.
 
It is amusing how both of them spell and sound exactly the same. And, of course, how both of them are completely wrong.
 
Thanks Opioid_Addict but seriously I'm, done with this post .. doesn't matter to me really.. It is not a big deal anyway. now I never said I was going to stop posting on bluelight. Will not stop doing that (posting).. but I have dropped this thread.. seriously..just so you all know.


I admit that I was wrong. I have no idea what I was talking about.. you have showed me that a pure hydrocodone or codeine tablet would be a schedule II class drug. I have seen that from erowid.. I asked for someone to show me some prof and it showed me that I was wrong.. very good resourcse Twgburst.. I'd like to thank you all for showing me the error of my way.. even If I was so stubborn about it.. clearly I miss read the laws behind scheduling.. I do not know what I was thinking there.. it was just so very complex that I clearly couldn't comprahened it. I do appreciate your help.. thanks
 
Look now I said I was wrong.. now your going to start on my about something else.. jeez
 
ChronicPAIN said:
.. It is not a big deal anyway.
Click to expand...
Then why did you make such a big deal out of it? Are you not the one who started this thread? Are you not the one who was too pigheaded to accept the fact that you might be wrong and that you were simply misunderstanding the scheduling law? This is over now, and I give you a little credit for finally admitting you were wrong, and I'm not trying to further instigate things, but don't try to make it seem like you weren't the one who turned this into a "big deal".
 
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