Summer's just finishing up here....undecided on Winter goals though. Kinda hoping to work in a month travelling Europe with the missus, so that could dictate things a lot. That, and I dislike bulking while in a relationship lol....can't stand being bloated around the SO >.< firstworldliftingproblems haha
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SIED Moderators: Genetic Freak | Serotonin101
The cycle log thread
- Thread starter nolys
- Start date
My girl likes me with higher estrogen because I'm more emotionally sensitive and less of a dick lol. Normal-low estro and I'm my normal prideful dick self lol
Animal Mother
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Jun 6, 2007
- Messages
- 3,411
I'm prone to estro sides on deca, but only over 400mg a week, but at 500mg a week, i get much better results!
And gyno goes away after coming off.
Decisions decisions.
And gyno goes away after coming off.
Decisions decisions.
I've been slowly winding things back up again after a rubbish last-half to 2014. Which explains the rapidity of the gains...
First 6 weeks of the year was 250mg Test + 125mg Tren. Gained about 10-12kg (25lbs)
Next 6 is 500mg Test, 125mg Tren. Expecting another 7-10kg.
Lost maybe 1-2kg of fat as well so far (I do a few weekend cuts here and there to keep fat down and insulin sensitivity up).
I'll take a break for a while after, then proceed to a cut.
First 6 weeks of the year was 250mg Test + 125mg Tren. Gained about 10-12kg (25lbs)
Next 6 is 500mg Test, 125mg Tren. Expecting another 7-10kg.
Lost maybe 1-2kg of fat as well so far (I do a few weekend cuts here and there to keep fat down and insulin sensitivity up).
I'll take a break for a while after, then proceed to a cut.
nolys
Bluelight Crew
Why are baby's so difficult it's been about a month now sinxe I stepped foot in a gym I haven't slept right in a while now...
Think I'm just gonna buy some tren and mast and run 500/500 mast tren and 250 test coming up to the summer here I won't sleep properly on tren anyway so not be losing out on anything
Think I'm just gonna buy some tren and mast and run 500/500 mast tren and 250 test coming up to the summer here I won't sleep properly on tren anyway so not be losing out on anything
Figured a simple question as this is best asked here:
Nandrolone Decanoate vs Phenylpropionate
If pinning ED or EOD regardless of ester, are the "side effects" always associated with deca such as water retention avoided due to more stable blood concentrations? I presume this, since they're both Nandrolone just with different esters.
Nandrolone Decanoate vs Phenylpropionate
If pinning ED or EOD regardless of ester, are the "side effects" always associated with deca such as water retention avoided due to more stable blood concentrations? I presume this, since they're both Nandrolone just with different esters.
![[S]alvatore](/community/data/avatars/m/56/56829.jpg?1554214538){kind=avatar}
[S]alvatore
Bluelighter
- Joined
- May 1, 2004
- Messages
- 1,351
Cheers! Sounds better than it is tbh since it's basically rebound. Then comes the real hard work lol.
Side effects just relate to absolute concentrations of free (unesterified) compound in the blood. Ergo you can't avoid side-effects if you're prone, though a more frequent injection schedule will certainly reduce the peak concentration from any ester, and could potentially reduce sides (though I doubt it will make any practical difference at all, sorry).
Exactly my thoughts on the first part of your response, though I've read plenty of suggestion that there are more harsh side effects associated with longer ester compounds (even when it's the same hormone, eg Tren Acetate vs Enanthate) simply because the longer compounds are injected much less frequently (since that's their purpose, and fuckers are lazy lol), and by injecting ED you can minimise/eliminate this increase in sides.
Obviously you're still going to be open to whatever side effects the unesterfied hormone carries with it, but from what I've read more stable levels will help with things like water retention....though admittedly I've mainly read this particular point with regards to Testosterone esters, like Prop vs Enanthate vs Cyp etc
I have met people who would swear to me on their mother's grave that certain esters 'definitely' reduce water retention. Unfortunately these people also tend to believe in crap like Herbalife lol. I don't think changes to water retention happen rapidly enough for it to make a fly's arse of difference over a day or two, but until it's proven either way, who knows....
On the other hand, I have found phosphatidylserine to be one of the most effect reducers of (presumably cortisol-induced) water retention on cycle. No more puffy swollen hands, ankles or moon-face with that stuff...
disclaimer: the following is simply me repeating what I've read plenty of times, not only elsewhere but also on here from Genetic Freak (I think. Sorry if I'm wrong, GF 
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The ester attached to the hormone has nothing to do with the symptoms I describe, like the water retention. The differences between the esters are a number of carbon atoms, nothing more. The ester itself is responsible for nothing. HOWEVER, with longer acting esters often goes hand in hand with a less-frequent injection regimen. THIS is where the issue lies - not with the ester, but the injection frequency resulting in a more extreme sine-wave of unestered hormone levels. Injecting once a week, as opposed to every day, will result in a larger spike in blood concentrations immediately following the injection, followed by a slow decrease until the next injection. By injecting every day, this initial spike in levels is much less significant, and the decline in blood concentrations of unestered hormone will be lessened. More or less a graph showing unestered hormone levels over time will show a much more consistent level, rather than the spike and trough every week.
It's been suggested many times that this spike and trough sine wave from less frequent injection can result in an increase in side effects, such as water retention, as your hormone levels aren't consistent. I don't fully understand how or why enough to explain further, but it makes sense in my head, particularly the way it's been explained beforehand. THIS is where the anecdotal claims that Test E/Cyp cause more estogenic sides like water retention than Test Prop, as with a longer acting ester comes a less frequent injection schedule. I mean, that's the whole point of a longer acting ester, no? So by injecting every day regardless of the ester in use (in my case - nandrolone undecanoate vs nandrolone phenylpropionate), I avoid this spike and trough, and therefore avoid the increase in side effects. At least in theory.
I'm aware injecting a longer ester more frequently won't make it faster acting by any means, and the cycle length will still need to account for it. It'll still take just as long to build up, and just as long to clear out.
)The ester attached to the hormone has nothing to do with the symptoms I describe, like the water retention. The differences between the esters are a number of carbon atoms, nothing more. The ester itself is responsible for nothing. HOWEVER, with longer acting esters often goes hand in hand with a less-frequent injection regimen. THIS is where the issue lies - not with the ester, but the injection frequency resulting in a more extreme sine-wave of unestered hormone levels. Injecting once a week, as opposed to every day, will result in a larger spike in blood concentrations immediately following the injection, followed by a slow decrease until the next injection. By injecting every day, this initial spike in levels is much less significant, and the decline in blood concentrations of unestered hormone will be lessened. More or less a graph showing unestered hormone levels over time will show a much more consistent level, rather than the spike and trough every week.
It's been suggested many times that this spike and trough sine wave from less frequent injection can result in an increase in side effects, such as water retention, as your hormone levels aren't consistent. I don't fully understand how or why enough to explain further, but it makes sense in my head, particularly the way it's been explained beforehand. THIS is where the anecdotal claims that Test E/Cyp cause more estogenic sides like water retention than Test Prop, as with a longer acting ester comes a less frequent injection schedule. I mean, that's the whole point of a longer acting ester, no? So by injecting every day regardless of the ester in use (in my case - nandrolone undecanoate vs nandrolone phenylpropionate), I avoid this spike and trough, and therefore avoid the increase in side effects. At least in theory.
I'm aware injecting a longer ester more frequently won't make it faster acting by any means, and the cycle length will still need to account for it. It'll still take just as long to build up, and just as long to clear out.
I thought your question was on the difference between injecting Deca vs NPP ED or EOD?
Don't get me wrong, by and large I agree with maintaining a stable free hormone level. Over a week I could envisage it making a difference (definitely to things like gyno if not necessarily water), though most people injecting the substantial amounts that would cause really noticeable sides (of even long esters) tend to break up the injections. However esters like enanthate peak in 24 hrs and drop off rapidly anyway, so a weekly protocol really would cause quite a see-saw.
Don't get me wrong, by and large I agree with maintaining a stable free hormone level. Over a week I could envisage it making a difference (definitely to things like gyno if not necessarily water), though most people injecting the substantial amounts that would cause really noticeable sides (of even long esters) tend to break up the injections. However esters like enanthate peak in 24 hrs and drop off rapidly anyway, so a weekly protocol really would cause quite a see-saw.
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Perhaps it's more of a 'myth' perpetuated by lazy 19 year old fucktards who wanna get jacked like Zyzz but refuse to inject anything more than once a week, lol. The only thing these fuckheads will take in on a daily basis is their dbol, and the AI to go with that 40mg/day dbol and 500mg/wk sustanon is NOWHERE to be seen.
Lol who knows. In the absence of any solid science bodybuilders are renowned for inventing their own reasons, and of course we can always tell the difference between the sixteen compounds we are taking and know exactly which one is doing what to our physique, water retention, strength etc etc in great specific detail ;-)
Haha yeah I'll pay that though that being said, if GF said it here, I'll take it fairly seriously.
Regardless, even if it's broscience, the only drawbacks to my method of pinning as frequently as possible is the effort it takes and treating my body as a pincushion
though that being said, if GF said it here, I'll take it fairly seriously.Regardless, even if it's broscience, the only drawbacks to my method of pinning as frequently as possible is the effort it takes and treating my body as a pincushion