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The Big & Dandy ++++ Thread

I've had two ++++ experiences.Once with 2c-e(17-18mg) and the second time was with acid+shrooms.
 
Ismene said:
It depends how many times you have a +4 I guess. The first time you have a +4 you probably think it's going to be life-changing. The five hundredth time you have a +4 you're probably not so overwhelmed by it :\
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By definition, it is probably NOT a + + + + experience then. Most people really do not understand what a strong + + + is or that a + + + + is NOT a function of either drug or intensity. You can have a + + + + on tap water or just a really (really!) intense + + + experience on copious amounts of smoked 5-MeO-DMT. Someone who claims to have had something like 1 – 5 + + + + experiences in decades of serious psychedelic research and/or personal work might be believable. Someone claiming to have had + + + + experiences so often as to have lost their mystique is probably less believable. If you doubt this, then look up how many such experiences Shulgin claims to have had over the decades and many hundreds of different ingestions of various compounds.

delta_9 said:
oh, its the different plateaus, never heard them called +s before, sorry, but yeah, ive been to the 4th plateau before
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A + + + + is NOT the 4th plateau or simply a fully dissociative state. It is NOT Level 4 as defined on the Gaeme Scale that is used on some other boards to rate trips. It is what Maslow would consider a ‘peak experience,’ not just a strong peak on your preferred drug. A + + + + is NOT just ego loss or confusion of self-concept / Samadhi with form. There are maybe (maybe) 5 or so people on this board that I would actually take seriously when they say they have had a + + + + experience. That is not to say that any particular person here that has claimed to have had such an experience is lying, but it is to say that the vast majority of them are most likely mistaken. I am not a psychic and I cannot sort out who has or has not had such an experience, but I can certainly see that most people do not really understand the concept as elucidated by Shulgin.

I B
 
4 HBWR seeds + Syrian Rue.

I realized life was a dream and woke up. The mask of the ego came off and the world disintegrated. The holodeck we call reality started to sizzle and fizzle. Death and rebirth.

'The stars are projectors, projecting our lives down to this planet earth, the stars are projectors, projecting our minds down to this planet earth... and in the last second of your life, they're going to show you how.' -Isaac Brock (Modest Mouse)
 
first time on LSD- When i was peaking i went to this place (in my mind) called the valley of green eden. i had to crawl through a long dark tunnel to get there but when i got there it was a beautiful meadow of lush green grass, colorful flowers, fairies and patterns everywhere. it was so beautiful that after the peak was over i didnt want to leave. then i looked at my wall (i made the whole wall checkboard) it started warping and checkboard snakes started flying everywhere. i want to return to the valley of green eden one day. i get crazy flashbacks.
 
~5mg DOC and 100mg of relatively pure MDMA I'd say about the time the MDMA hit it's peak I distinctly remember fading out of reality. First the sky came down to touch me, difficult to explain but if you think of the way things look in three dimensions suddenly the entire sky was pulled down to my level to spend a little time with me. Then I got so "high" that I was convinced I had separated mind and body and I was only aware of complete bliss and nothing else.
 
~15-20mg 5-meo-DMT. Consciousness expanding in all directions at the speed of light and beyond until I experienced infinity of time and space.
 
Mushrooms for sure. Xorkoth's report is one of the best I have read on Erowid. It read exactly like my first(!) psychedelic experience. I lived a million lifetimes and the blinders came off. You know, the mushroom delusion. I don't think anyone does much on a ++++, you can only lay there, unable to function. You no longer see visuals anymore, even. They just become one with you.
 
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delta_9 said:
wheres pcp, 2cb, amt, and ghb, u seem to be missing a few
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Yeah man; I get consistent ++++'s with GHB.

Only joking... what did you mean by GHB?
 
I don't see why you can't arrive at a state that fullfills the verbal definition of a ++++ state on ghb. As another poster stated, you can experience a ++++ through meditation. The human body is filled with chemicals that can endogenously change the state of human consciousness, it is just silly to assume that only psychedelics can trigger this experience. I still feel though, the the Shulgin scale is useful only in as much as it allows people to communicate their experience to others...which, when it comes to a supposed ++++ experience, I am not sure you can even truly communicate it to anyone else. I honestly think that it mostly leads to people trying to "out-experieince" each other, as if exclaiming, "Yes world! I have attained enlightnement!" I guess it is a symptom of a world being hugged closer and closer to the digital web that we are becoming more and more entwined with, allowing us a way to communicate the ineffible across the wires...
 
Xorkoth said:
A very good point. Such an experience can happen as a result of meditation, lucid dreaming, or due to random chance because of other factors in life. Psychedelics do happen to be good catalysts for such experiences, however.

I tend to believe that a real +4 is only possible once in a given situation and point in life. However, I've had 3. They were far apart and each dealt with the matter from a totally different angle. Each has affected the rest of my life profoundly.
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Xorkoth, many (many!) different forms of Buddhism speak of little and great enlightenments. Very early forms spoke of an initial enlightenment (awakening) and then a subsequent (hopefully at the end of this (last) lifetime!) enlightenment (parinirvana).

Additionally, Zen Buddhism very much ontologically posits the possibility for multiple ++++ experiences (they call it kensho or satori). Grand Zen Master Hakuin was purported to have dozens and dozens of verified kensho experiences in his lifetime...each one going deeper and deeper! 8o

Peace and Best to you all!
 
The more i think of it i would call my last LSD trip a +4. I had taken 1,5 hits at night on a psytrance festival and got my ego totally ripped off. It wasnt just dissolved it was completly dead, brought to its naked core. The peak was very hard to remember and on the comedown i couldnt but just sit there for hours shaking because of all the deep insights and revelations i had. I was so extremely far out, after 7-8 hours i still had strong effects like for example if i would watch somewhere people would dance/do something faster, slower or even backwards but i could feel i was coming down. The Afterglow was wonderful (as always with tryptamines :) ). Btw Xorkoth's 2C-E report does remind me A LOT of my experience...
 
I would say pretty much all the ++++'s I've had were with ketamine, and mushrooms (not at the same time!). Oh yeah, and also a pharmahuasca experience, one time, which I have posted in the Trip Reports archive. And one time on a 1mg dose of acid.

All of them involved NO physical activity whatsoever, as I imagine that would be relatively impossible in that state, where I don't even remember ever being this thing called "I"...
 
Xorkoth, I noticed you put mushrooms as 1 and 2c-e as 2. But, in your 2c-e report you made you sound like it blew mushrooms out of the water. You said you respect it way more than 'shrooms. Why are mushrooms 1st then? Was it more integratable? Did you like the "lifeforce" more than the void? Was it less terrifying?

Have you had any bad, or at least difficult (mushroom) trips? I'd love to read more reports from you, especially if they're less than devine.

I think the biggest lesson I took away from my trip was that the universe is cyclic. Its the one thing I still take to heart and I think science will prove it someday, however irrelevant it is.

There seem to be some common ++++ revelations:

1.) Everything is cyclic
2.) Life is a dream
3.) Free will doesnt exist

Any others?
 
All of them involved NO physical activity whatsoever, as I imagine that would be relatively impossible in that state
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people have pointed out in the other thread that a ++++ doesn't necessarily imply being "really fucked up" or even ego loss

personally, the shulguin scale annoys me
i find it very incomplete
 
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